You said that they worked with him... "Clinton got a lot done because the Republicans controlled the House and Senate for most of his presidency". That is wrong... it's not even close to true... I think you should go back and study that bit of history more.

Which bank reform "fuck up" are you referring to?

I will completely agree that the congressional dems... especially the senate do not have any balls... I don't think you are right about Obama. I think he has more balls than anyone you know... how many of them would want to be the first black President with all of the nutjobs this country has? Especially after Palin kept calling him a terrorist... :upsidedow

I have no idea where you got that idea... but it's not based in reality. Especially in this political environment where tea partiers spit on congressmen and call them faggots and ni**ers like they did to Frank and Lewis today and the GOP congressmen didn't say a fucking thing about it... instead they called for revolution and all kinds of other nonsense like they have been doing for over a year.

I'm leaning more towards the notion that parts of the bill actually help insurance companies, so that logic would be thrown out. Conservatives also know that we can't afford any more deficit spending. I highly doubt they/we would have any problems with health care reform, as soon as the bigger issue(economy) is resolved. Since Obama is only fucking the economy to the point of imminent collapse, I think it's natural to think that health care reform is unsustainable at this point.

Here's one: Obama wants to pass healthcare reform, and the Republicans are in lockstep against him.

Well, the Dems are going to sell this as doing the right thing for America in November
The GOP is going to sell it as not listening to the people in November.
Personally, I don't think 90% of the democrats know what they are voting on, remember 2700 pages of the government taking over the healthcare insurance industry
I know a person that works for the Cal State Medical board as a senior analyst that doesn't even have a high school diploma or a GED.

This isn't even true... you have proven to be somewhat objective on some issues and completely biased on others... proven by the fact that you repeat talking points that have no basis in fact. You haven't proven a single thing I have said wrong and I have proven many things you have said wrong... and for the record... I voted for Bush Sr. I was too young to vote for Reagan... but probably would have voted for him too back then...

EDIT: I wanted to add one more thing... I might have actually voted for Huckabee if he had won the nomination... too bad he proved himself to be a nutjob after he took the job at Fox.

First off, I thought conservatives didn't believe in government intervention to fix the economy so where is that suddenly coming from.

But Teddy Roosevelt took on the Robber Barons and everyone said he was going to destroy the economy at the time and he was a republican.

of course the robber barons were behind that PR i'm sure too.

Uh, I said the Republicans controlled the house and senate for most of his presidency. That much is 100% true, I don't know why you'd argue facts.


Realize that I posted those because you would predictably call bullshit on what I typed.


I think you're living in the past. The nutjobs are a minority in this countryn ow.


The Clinton Administration. From 2005 to the end of his presidency, the house and senate were controlled by the Republicans. Call it correlation, call it causation, whatever. What DOESN'T work is one party holding everything, and we've seen plenty of evidence for that.

We don't. That's my point lol. He's fucking with the markets, he's fucking with everything. Deficit spending, bailouts, etc.

Oh wow, I overestimated your intelligence, my bad.

1. I don't have to prove anything you said wrong, you have to prove facts because the burden of proof is on you.

2. Show me where you've "proven me wrong" lol. I take it you'll ignore tihs part.

3. Show me the talking points that have no basis in fact...

I doubt you will address either of those 3 as this post of yours has "bullshit" written all over it.

I'll give you a perfect one... Deem and Pass... you were repeating the talking point until I explained it to you.

You're joking right? You do know a republican started the bailout of the banks, correct and Obama inherited the rest of this mess?

To be honest I was much more afraid of Obama when he was trying to work with the Republicans instead of telling them to go fuck themselves it's the democrats turn. I think he's finally starting to understand things now.

Where did you prove me wrong? Your explanation had no bearing on your accusations, as I've outlined them.

Yup. A republican started the bailout, he continued it. Obama inherited a bad economy, and made it worse on scales you can't imagine. I suggest you not start using double standards with Obama. He will either fail because he sucks, or succeed because he's good. He won't fail because it's Bush's fault and succeed because he's good. That argument has been debunked time and time again.

Possibly, but it doesn't stop him for making consistently bad decisions.

How did he make the economy worse? Examples? I'm just curious? I mean Bush took a surplus and started a war with it that got us in debt and now the economy has just proceeded along that course.

You didn't think a new president was going to get elected and presto-chango, the economy gets reset like your computer, did you?

Uhh... are you talking about Bush or Obama... because historians and people with a memory longer than 10 minutes can tell you that the bailouts were done on Bush's watch and he added 3 times as much to the deficit as Obama has so far... granted... Obama is only a year in... so I will give you that.

Continued the bailouts. Kept Bernanke. Deficit spending on astronomical levels. Stimulus spending. There has been nothing positive done about the economy. And yet his administration and Bernanke have to spin every negative to keep the markets up. It's sad. Bush fucked up the economy in 8 years. Obama has pretty much caught up with him in 1. Stupid Keynesians.

Actually, Bush initiated them and Obama continued them, thanks for the selective memory.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/...ficit_2010.jpg

He didn't continue the bailouts... As a matter of fact, he has been making the banks repay the bailouts. The stock market has climbed over 4000 points since he took office, companies are starting to hire again and the stimulus has really only started working in the last couple of months because it took awhile to get projects approved and money dispersed.

I'm not happy he kept Bernanke and I can't stand Geitner... so we probably agree there. As far as Keynesian economics go... I am quite certain that the world economists know more than you or any member of Congress about that subject.

Your beliefs, misguided or not, are pretty much set and very general. Some of his stimulus has supposedly helped, but like you I have no direct access to the legit data so I'm as much in the dark as you and then would have to interpret it accurately if I could get my hands on it.

But it is scary that you probably make below 10 million dollars a year and want to get on the side of big business and the cooperations. I just don't know where you and Joe The Plumber find a way to get into their club. I'd probably be like you if they let me in too.

Do you know how to read that graph? Look at it again... you will notice that Obama's budget cuts the deficit in half in his first term and that is without repealing the Bush Tax Cuts (in that graph)... secondly, not even the CBO will project deficits beyond 5 years with impunity. Another point to mention is that Obama's budget includes Social Security... Bush's didn't.

Oh wow, how misinformed are you? The stock market has climbed 4,000 points because the administration spins everything. They've intentionally exaggerated numbers and when the reports come in, they're smaller than the expected numbers. The job loss has been astronomical and NO new permanent jobs have been created. I really don't know where you're getting your information from. Furthermore, the stimulus has done nothing positive for the economy. In fact, it's created artificial growth at the expense of deficit spending. I don't think you're well versed in economics so maybe I should move on. Oh btw, where did the money go from the banks repayment, because they certainly didn't go back to the fed, lol. Funny you criticize me when I tell you what I hear, but when you hear something, it's taken as fact. Finally, the bailouts were on Obama's watch, unless you forget history.

I know you're certain, yet being in power doesn't make you more intelligent than anyone else. I will argue that i know more than Bernanke, especially since him and I follow two different schools of thought. He follows one that doesn't work, I follow one that's been proven to work.

Wheres the money going that got paid back?

BTW, the whole world is have a bad economy if I'm not miss taken. Getting tired of the blame game, when is someone going to fix it?
The Health-care bill is being pushed thru as a deficit reduction measure, who here really believes that getting 30 million people insured is going to reduce the deficit?

Yup, I do know how to read that graph, I'm shocked you don't. Funny though, weren't you touting CBO's #s regarding the health care bill, or something else? Suddenly they're not credible. Face it, Obama MAY be smarter than Bush but he's a complete moron when economics are concerned.

Actually if you're going to have to treat 30 million people for free one way or the other, does it really matter?

You're going to have to prove my beliefs are misguided, but I doubt you can. NONE of the stimulus spending helped, do you understand? It only put us further into debt. A guy is going to buy a car in 2011. Cash for Clunkers came out and he bought a car now. Guess what, he's NOT going to buy a car in 2011 now. Common sense.

I have no idea what this is in reference to.

Yea, I'd rather fix the economy before starting to treat 30 million people when our economy collapses.

Btw, Bush's budget deficit was 1.4 trillion dollars after he left office. Obama beat him within a year. That's a fact you'll have to accept Nation..


Also

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Rep...Than-Last-Year

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/print/61448

Not to mention, Obama's budget deficit hit historical highs each month.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5979279.shtml
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/09/news...tarp/index.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/bu...my/15bank.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec...arp4-2009dec04

I am skeptical that we will see that much deficit reduction from HCR... but I don't think it will increase the deficit either... We'll have to wait and see... if it doesn't, I am sure your heroes will rush right in and fix it right? :1orglaugh

I see the quality of healthcare going up for a lot of people that couldn't afford it before, while thats a good thing, I see a lot of misuse and fraud happening. Who's going to pay for it? Top 2% incomes of the country?

I wish Ron Paul became president, and Peter Schiff became FED Chairman. They'd slowly fix out economic problems.

The guy buying the car probably wouldn't have bought a car at all, and my Joe The Plumber reference is HE WAS A FUCKING PLUMBER! Think about it.

This is 100% illogical. My example is in reference to cash for clunkers, and the logic behind it is sound. Not sure why you're arguing it.

For someone that claims to understand this stuff you sure make staments that indicate otherwise... the deficit is recurring... Bush's deficit was still 1.4 Trillion last year AND this year. He didn't arrange to have it paid before he left... lol. He passed a huge Medicare entitlement that he didn't pay for + 2 wars... so don't try and say that it's all Obama's now... he did ADD to it... yes... but most reasonable people know that he had to do some spending... regardless of what you say about your Austrian economic theory.

I don't think Ron Paul would have been effctive the way things are with the congress and senate.
I think we're fucked

Again, why don't you just concede. The minute you start appealing to a fictional majority, you're basically saying, "I don't have a counter argument". And you really need to stop bluffing regarding your understanding of economics and mine, because it's not going to look good for you. Obama's annual deficit spending has made Bush look like a cheapskate. Now Bush had 8 years to do it. Obama is going to surpass him by the end of this year. "Most reasonable" my ass. I accept your concession.

:2 cents:

Ron Paul would probably do SOME things I liked... like get us out of the business of empire building... but his domestic policy would be a disaster.

Paul or Schiff. I think they'd make Bernanke their bitch. Only problem with Paul is that his security policies flat out blow. But I'd trust them to run the country over Obama or Bush or anybody else we have thus far, any day of the week, at least economically.

Seriously, I could totally get behind a conservative candidate that would leave the religious and neo-conservative ideology behind... if only the right wing could get behind someone like that we would be in good shape... but it's not going to happen because there are way too many religious nutjobs in our country... and Palin is their poster girl.

Religious nutjobs lol? I would argue that there are more secular nutjobs. "Hey lets say there's no God so we can believe in mankind and invent moral relativism so we can do whatever the hell we want and say that it's right according to me!" Secularism is NOT the answer to our problems lol, it would do even more damage than religion.

We need to terminate mainstream economics first and foremost and replace it with either classical(has some flaws), or Austrian(true free market).

Anyway, I don't have the data right in front of me at the moment and internet image charts aren't going to do it. You should probably volunteer to help out the Republican party because it's starting to look like they are going to need all the help they can get. Finally. Thank God!