Healthcare - A Privilege Or A Right?

Anyone who thinks they are entitled to ANYTHING for free just because they live is poorly misguided...

Anyone who thinks it's ok to take one man's payment for his labor and give it to someone else because they are less motivated or fortunate is also poorly misguided...

These are two things that the founding fathers fought tooth and nail against... every word of the documents written to establish this country are against these two notions...

What part of the UK is communist? Just curious. I actually saw a doctor from the UK on Micheal Moore's documentary who said he was very content with what he reaped from his work so I guess if you pay enough to the media (actually have them pay you enough) interviewing you, you can expect any response.

You don't really think the average person is in position to pay 2 or 3 grand to have some doctor stick his finger up his ass twice a year and tell him he doesn't have prostate cancer do you?

Funny, I was just remembering that as I was reading the thread. It was Jude Law and he was quite specific about the doctors not liking the system because they didn't make very much money and had to work long hours.

The subject was changed rather quickly at that point.

The not so PC answer...

Anyone who thinks they have the RIGHT to force a doctor to work for them even if they don't have the money is a fucking waste of space...

By saying healthcare is a right you're saying that person A has the RIGHT to force Doctor A to work for him even if he doesn't have the money to pay for it and that he has the RIGHT to use someone else's hard earned money to pay for themselves...

If you think you have a RIGHT to use someone else's cash you're a waste of space, pack up your shit and ship yourself to another country,we don't need you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for easily accessible affordable healthcare for everyone... but nobody has the RIGHT to harness someone else's sweat...

You're actually interpreting and/or misinterpreting other people's agenda's the way religious groups do the bible. Even ancient dictators and leaders of third world countries try and at least make a feeble impression of aiding the poor and giving those without some entitlement. It's those in the middle that get screwed and they are playing on the fears of people who currently have healthcare and think they are going to keep it at the current rates. This is never going to happen no matter the outcome of the healthcare bill and the only way a cooperation makes profits, which is it's only reason to exist, is by either creating newer or better product they can charge more for or cutting back on expense, so do the math and see what you get out of it.

Also, don't forget that Teddy Roosevelt was up against the Robber Barons in his day and they were trying to play him off as a communist and socialist too and this was a bonafide Republican much like Obama is doing today as a democrat. I'm not sold on Obama but considering what alternatives were being offered it was pretty much a no brainer and I don't think his ideas are any more socialist when Teddy Roosevelt took on the Robber Barons and kicked ass cause he didn't give a shit and knew what was best for the country. It seems more dramatic now cause we didn't have to live through all the everyday tedium of back then plus their was no television media trying to play it out and getting bored for lack of drama.

Definitely NOT misinterpreting it... believe me. I could cite examples all day long about how Madison, Jefferson, etc... would support what I'm saying. Before I get the whole, "name one" I'll pull one out of my hat right quick :P

In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -James Madison (Father of the Constitution I might add...)

Listen I'm a stand up guy. I donate both money and time to charities. I bend over backwards to help friends and family out... I believe that doing these things helps better the community around me and helps people out of slumps, etc... The key here is that it is VOLUNTARY... not forced...

Forcing one man to work X% of his time for another man is not right... it's called slave labor...

Jefferson owned slaves, so you're citing a hypocrite (great writer though) who doesn't practice what he preaches like a lot of these limousine liberals who speed past the poor here to get to the airport and adopt babies in other countries.

It's great that you support people but there are many people who don't or only cause they have to due to tax credits, and this is good as long as the taxes are being used properly and etc and etc.

Business is not designed to give to charity unless that's the way the tax laws make it work to thus increase business.

There should be a system design to keep the elite elite, assist the poor and help the middle class climb the ladder. This is the delusional of capitalism in it's purest when it's really design as competition and dog eat dog where someone has to lose.

Why aren't there more people that take this much personal responsibility?

qft........

Because the majority of americans are lazy, and would rather pass the buck.

Who has to pay for your right to have something? its not a right if someone else has to provide you with something.

If you want to know what your rights are visit this site:

http://www.usconstitution.net/

If it's not enumerated in there, even implicitly, it's a safe be that it's not a right.

You mean like the police and the fire department? You pay them before or after they put your fire out or arrest the guy trying to break into your house?

It's neither a right nor a privilege. It's a service like any other and no one should ever be forced to pay for someone else's services.

There is already a lot of "free" health care for people out there now in the US:
Anyone under 18 is eligible for free health care.
If you are poor and meet other conditions you can get medicade
Veterens get free health care
If you are over 65 you can get Medicare which is real cheap.

So the "gap" is people over 18 and under 65 that are not eligible for medicare and are not a vetern, who doesn't work for a company that offers group health and they can not afford their own health care.

We already pay a lot in taxes for medicare/medicade and social security. A LOT OF INCOME TAXES go to that. All of those programs are totally miss managed by the govt and there is lots of fraud. Both of them are on t he verge of running out of money. If they provide coverage to the people not already covered it's going to raise our taxes and be another miss managed poorly run health program by the govt.

Personally, I would love for each of those 30K or however many people who are not insured under a program or paying for their own, to be audited. I would LOVE to see how many of them choose to pay $800 a month for a nice car, or paying more in rent then they can afford, own flat screens, take vacations etc... I would bet that 90% of the people who don't have insurance don't have it because they choose to spend their money else where, and I'm not talking food and a modest rent but bull shit that t hey can live with out. Or for drugs, cigs, or booze, having gambling habbits, etc... Not ALL people but i bet most of them.

I don't think the people who actually contribute to society, work their asses off to be successfull should continue to be taxed to death to pay for the bottom of the barrel that is there because they are irresponsible. The ones who are really trying and sacrificing, I don't mind giving them a hand up. Most are not though.

If we add universal health care our taxes will go up, and everyone of us will be paying for it. Well everyone of us that actually contributes to society in a good way.