Webcam sites are in serious fucking trouble

[Choker]

Yeah yeah I hear you, "you can't find hot hot girls giving personal shows for free" Right? Bullshit. The proliferation of free cam shows starring hotties has already begun. Everybody and his mama is rushing to get in on the new webcam fad. This is gonna take some serious business plan restructuring if webcam sites plan on surviving. I'm at a loss as to how they are gonna survive myself. Any ideas?

[Farang]

And people call me idiot because of a little bit of coke in my avatar, while Mr Choker has a huge erect penis in his

[Choker]

And people call me idiot because of a little bit of coke in my avatar, while Mr Choker has a huge erect penis in his

Choker, chicken, cock its all good lol

[Jarmusch]

These free cam shows don't replace having a girl do exactly what you want in private just for you. On those free shows you have a few dozen or more dudes in there with you.

Do those free shows offer cam2cam option? Or 2way audio?

[lazycash]

I'm not sure what you mean by "just begun" or "new fad", but I'm pretty sure I know what you are referring to and its been going on for over two years and cam sites are still going strong.

[Quagmire]

And people call me idiot because of a little bit of coke in my avatar, while Mr Choker has a huge erect penis in his

This is the adult biz. We sell cock, not coke.

[LoveSandra]

fuck you.see my sig

[Choker]

These free cam shows don't replace having a girl do exactly what you want in private just for you. On those free shows you have a few dozen or more dudes in there with you.

Do those free shows offer cam2cam option? Or 2way audio?

Yes they do man, they offer all this and more. Look around the developers boards at projects guys are creating, do some research on what is going on lately.

[Choker]

I'm not sure what you mean by "just begun" or "new fad", but I'm pretty sure I know what you are referring to and its been going on for over two years and cam sites are still going strong.

Nah man, there are hundreds of free chat sites opening up on a weekly basis. This is different.

[Farang]

This is the adult biz. We sell cock, not coke.

But we make a lot of monies, do drugs and fuck hookers, no?

[crackheadcurly]

choker killed dating and cams are on the way

[lazycash]

Nah man, there are hundreds of free chat sites opening up on a weekly basis. This is different.

Hmmm, I only promote cams and have been for a dozen years and know just about anything new that pops on the seen. If you don't want to discuss it here I'll hit you up on icq, but I'm fairly certain I know what you are referring to and I think you'd be shocked how long its been going on.

[Choker]

choker killed dating and cams are on the way

Your a idiot.

[Choker]

Hmmm, I only promote cams and have been for a dozen years and know just about anything new that pops on the seen. If you don't want to discuss it here I'll hit you up on icq, but I'm fairly certain I know what you are referring to and I think you'd be shocked how long its been going on.

I just spent the last hour cruising one of the new free webcam sites, plenty of hot girls giving away free shows and yes doing what you ask, some girls just get off on doing this. Anyone saying this will not impact web cam shows is simply fooling themselves. This is not good.

[Jarmusch]

Choker can you give one example of those hundreds of sites that are opening up every week?

I thought you were talking about sites like Myfreecams, but that site has been around for quite a few years.

[Quagmire]

But we make a lot of monies, do drugs and fuck hookers, no?

Sure, but the cock is more related to the biz than the coke and hookers. Most of the people on here can't find enough coins under the couch cushions for a coffee, never mind coke and hookers.

[crackheadcurly]

Your a idiot.

you need it on the tv. just wait

[lazycash]

Choker can you give one example of those hundreds of sites that are opening up every week?

I thought you were talking about sites like Myfreecams, but that site has been around for quite a few years.

Yeah, sounds like he's referring to mfc, most people don't realize how long its been around.

[Farang]

Most of the people on here can't find enough coins under the couch cushions for a coffee, never mind coke and hookers.

This must be the reason I'm getting so much hate from sigwhores...

[Robocrop]

Sure, but the cock is more related to the biz than the coke and hookers. Most of the people on here can't find enough coins under the couch cushions for a coffee, never mind coke and hookers.

Every girl fucking for cash is a hooker tho.

[digitaldivas]

This must be the reason I'm getting so much hate from sigwhores...

As long as it's not an addiction, there are no probs with party favors, imho.

[brassmonkey]

And people call me idiot because of a little bit of coke in my avatar, while Mr Choker has a huge erect penis in his

[jay23]

I just spent the last hour cruising one of the new free webcam sites, plenty of hot girls giving away free shows and yes doing what you ask, some girls just get off on doing this. Anyone saying this will not impact web cam shows is simply fooling themselves. This is not good.

need to wank off tonight, what the url

[SmokeyTheBear]

These free cam shows don't replace having a girl do exactly what you want in private just for you. On those free shows you have a few dozen or more dudes in there with you.

Do those free shows offer cam2cam option? Or 2way audio?

thnk he is talking about sites like chatroulette, they have cam2cam and 2 way audio , its free, theres no ads and you can find couples and hot chicks.

[will76]

Yeah yeah I hear you, "you can't find hot hot girls giving personal shows for free" Right? Bullshit. The proliferation of free cam shows starring hotties has already begun. Everybody and his mama is rushing to get in on the new webcam fad. This is gonna take some serious business plan restructuring if webcam sites plan on surviving. I'm at a loss as to how they are gonna survive myself. Any ideas?

WTF you talking about? "" The proliferation of free cam shows starring hotties has already begun. "" Where ? Camroulette, cam4 ?

"" Everyone is rushing in to get in on the new webcam fad ?""

Doesn't matter how many people rush in, free cam sites wont take away from ppm cam sites. If anything ppm cam sites are a great upsell on free cam sites.

Free Cam site: 95% cocks 5% girls

of the 5% Girls:

25% under age
25% over age lol (40+ and not attractive)
25% fat and not attractive of varies ages
20% average looking
5% attractive

If you find an attractive girl here is what your "webcam" experience is going to consist of:
1. Room full of dudes watching, most of them being dumb asses.
2. If it is a popular site 100's of people trying to type at once, as soon as you type it, it flies off the screen.
3. No interaction with the girl, you will be extremely lucky if she replies to you even 1 time.
4. No control over the action, she will do what she wants to do and wont take requests.
5. Dull "show". A lot of the time these girls sit there, non nude and just play around. You get the occasional flash etc...
6. Most cases crappy webcams, grainy and blurry and with slow connections.
7. No way to do 2 way cams when there is 100 guys in the room.

Taking everything about into account, the people who go to free cam sites are better off watching recorded webcam videos and making themselves think it is live. The vast majority of people who are regular viewers of free webcam sites are not people who would do ppm anyway. They are your tube site surfers or underage and don't have a credit card. There are some people who come across free cam sites that aren't satisfied and that is a great opportunity to upsell them to a ppm cam site. You will NEVER lose a ppm cam site member to a free cam site.

People who pay per minute for cam shows like to be in control, they want to tell the girl what to do, they like the privacy and not having 100's of other morons typing stupid shit while they are trying to talk to the girl. They like the interaction with her. They like the fact that they typically have 100's of attractive girls to choose from. Another HUGE thing you miss, is that ppm members like to come back and see the same girls over and over, something that is next to impossible to do with girls on free cam sites. They like the HD Cams, or multi cam angles, how the girl TALKS to them directly. Some of them like to have the girl watch them and do 2 way cams. I could go ON and ON about the night and day differences. There is no comparison.

Never mind the fact that free cams have been around as long as pay cams. Netmeeting goes way back to the 90's. Yahoo cams have been around for years. Cam4 has been around for 3-4 years now. ICUII cams or whatever that was that has been around for years. Paltalk, webcamnow, etc etc....

So what " proliferation of free cam shows " are you talking about and where are the "hotties"?

This is one of those things that is black and white if you have any understanding of webcam sites. There is no point arguing me on this, just trust me and take my word of it lol

Yes they do man, they offer all this and more. Look around the developers boards at projects guys are creating, do some research on what is going on lately.

LIKE WHAT? please share, what is going on? Show me all these hotties doing free private shows, taking requests, and talking to me one on one, for free. Please do tell.

[will76]

thnk he is talking about sites like chatroulette, they have cam2cam and 2 way audio , its free, theres no ads and you can find couples and hot chicks.

LOL but when you happen to find ONE, they click NEXT Enjoy that 2 second glimpse of the hottie before she is gone. You will need to go through a couple hundred more cocks before you get to see another "hottie" for 2 seconds again.

Chatroulette offers 1 on 1 and audio, BUT the down side is you have to hunt to try to find a GIRL muchless an attractive girl. When you do find one she hits next. Only 1 hot girl can pick 1 guy to cam with her on chat roulette. Out of 1000's of guys what makes any of you think you will be the lucky guy, you wont.

At least on a cam4 if you lucky enough to find an attractive girl you wont get kicked out the room, but there lies all of the other negatives I pointed out above.


Chatroulette reminds me of high school. In high school we use to go out looking for girls, and the vast majority of the time we struck out, so at the end of the night we did stupid shit and had a good time anyway. We let out a lot of frustration. That is exactly like what chatroulette is, guys on t here hunting for girls, after 30,45 mins not finding anything, so what happens, the guys start acting stupid and it turns into more of a comedy site than anything else. (well minus the every other cock stroking dude).


NONE of these free sites will take away from ppm cam sites. And i don't just say that because I promote them, I say that because I understand them better than all of you who think they could be impacted by free cam sites. Choker " I've spent the last hour on one cam site" blah blah, I've spent the last 10+ years advertising 100% cams. If you want some advice hit me up.

[rowan]

Girls have been showing for "free" on webcams since I started camrecord back in 2001, and probably long before then as well... some of them just enjoy being an exhibitionist and getting kudos from the watchers; money is a secondary thing. (Although many do figure out that they have specific "attributes" that can make $ for them)

[slapass]

I just spent the last hour cruising one of the new free webcam sites, plenty of hot girls giving away free shows and yes doing what you ask, some girls just get off on doing this. Anyone saying this will not impact web cam shows is simply fooling themselves. This is not good.

I made the same thread last week and it had tons of folks saying it isn't so. "Cams are fine." Good luck with that. Tubes effected porn sales and tons of free cams will effect cam sales.

I know cams have been around but it is just like tubes. The new free cam sites are easy. I do not have to ask a girl to MSN or Yahoo or anything I just click.

[will76]

I made the same thread last week and it had tons of folks saying it isn't so. "Cams are fine." Good luck with that. Tubes effected porn sales and tons of free cams will effect cam sales.

I know cams have been around but it is just like tubes. The new free cam sites are easy. I do not have to ask a girl to MSN or Yahoo or anything I just click.

I guess you didn't learn anything from that thread either.

[Iron Fist]

This is the adult biz. We sell cock, not coke.

Well you can sell cock, i'll sell pussy.

[Domain Diva]

I made the same thread last week and it had tons of folks saying it isn't so. "Cams are fine." Good luck with that. Tubes effected porn sales and tons of free cams will effect cam sales.

I know cams have been around but it is just like tubes. The new free cam sites are easy. I do not have to ask a girl to MSN or Yahoo or anything I just click.

Just read the posts of Will76 this guy has marketed cams forever and a day and knows what he is talking about on this subject......

Ok so you dont want to listen to him ? let me try.....I was a cam performer for 2 years and ranked in the top 3 earners out of 5,000 registered models on a major cam site. (some here promoted me) I got so well known even my parents had the chance to see me hence the end of that ..( but thats a different story !! ) ...bottom line is I know this market.

My rate was always $4.99 per minute and every day someone would point out a free cam site or show me links to 99 cent a minute sites with hot girls on it and it didnt affect me at all. Why ? well simply because as Will76 pointed out the person spending the $$$ wanted to be in total control and have a one2one personal online one off or regular chat/show with the girl of his choice and if it was me they wanted the cost would be 4.99 ..its that simple.

Even if I was recorded and put all over tubes it wouldnt affect me either as the people paying the $$$$ wanted live interaction with ME....

Bottom line is ....free cams and tubes will never have any real effect on good live cam girls or sites charging a premium price......

[fris]

myfreewebcams 4 lyfe

[crockett]

Yeah yeah I hear you, "you can't find hot hot girls giving personal shows for free" Right? Bullshit. The proliferation of free cam shows starring hotties has already begun. Everybody and his mama is rushing to get in on the new webcam fad. This is gonna take some serious business plan restructuring if webcam sites plan on surviving. I'm at a loss as to how they are gonna survive myself. Any ideas?

Cam4.com has been around a while now.. TBH, fuck it I'm glad to see it.. If the rest of us are getting fucked up the ass, by the dating & cam sites on tubes it's about time they get a taste of their own medicine.

When they can't sell sign ups for dating or cam sites in the future, because of the "4 free" crowd, then maybe they will look back and think.. Humm maybe we shouldn't have supported all those fucking tube & torrent sites that fucked us all.

[will76]

myfreewebcams 4 lyfe

unless you paying tokens, you might as well be watching recorded webcam clips. The people who don't understand what ppm cams have to offer are the ones that would never buy in the first place. While you can see nudity on myfreewebcams, you are in a room with 500 people watching what you perceive to be live. But what does it really matter to you if it is live or not. You can't communicate with the girl, talk to her, tell her what to do (unless you pay). So what she is doing on camera she is doing right now, 10 minutes ago, or 10 days ago. For all you know it could be a recorded video.


ppm cams are typically high end customers, the people who can spend a couple hundred a week on porn and not think twice about it. Not the people who see a flashing live image and some tits and think, wow I get to see live girls on cams for free. People who spend money on cam sites don't pay to see a girl get naked, they can go watch a video and see that. They pay for the interaction, the control, the privacy, the personal attention, the 1 on 1. These people, who spend money on ppm cam sites aren't going to say, wow i found this cool free site where it is free now, great I don't have to pay any more. lol

You guys really don't get it, do you.

[MoreMagic]

There always will be a market for cams, personal contact is what the clock keeps ticking. But if you don't think conversion ratio is going to be hurt by sites as myfreecams you are serious wrong.

[EvilHearts]

example URL please!

[WiredGuy]

Similiar to how paysites are suffering to tubes, now its webcams time...
WG

[Phoenix]

hey choker..i get that this is an adult webmaster board....but i dont need to see a cock in yoru avatar....id like to read your threads instead of never opening one again

[will76]

Similiar to how paysites are suffering to tubes, now its webcams time...
WG

yeah it sucks, my conversions ratios went from 1:300 to 1:300,000 everyone should stop promoting cams, there is no money left to be made. All the paying customers have migrated to free cam sites, no one left to buy

I guess there is nothing left to sell, we should all close shop. Who ever is the last one out don't forget to turn off the lights. thanks.

[Mutt]

myfreecams isn't free, hot girls like those on MFC are on there for ONE reason, to make money, which they obviously are, guys are paying, the only difference on MFC is you have 10,000 freeloaders seeing naked girls on cam for free - the girls know they are out in 'free chat' so they don't have a problem with it or they'd be on a different cam site. you will never find hot girls en masse stripping for free - there are some who will, they are usually under 18 - see Stickam.

i see all the cam projects up for bids on the freelance programmer sites - good luck to anybody who thinks they're going to get an operational cam site with that quality of programmer.

[Domain Diva]

myfreecams isn't free, hot girls like those on MFC are on there for ONE reason, to make money, which they obviously are, guys are paying, the only difference on MFC is you have 10,000 freeloaders seeing naked girls on cam for free - the girls know they are out in 'free chat' so they don't have a problem with it or they'd be on a different cam site. you will never find hot girls en masse stripping for free - there are some who will, they are usually under 18 - see Stickam.

Huh ? so you dont think sexy girls like to sit around all day and evening nude playing with dildos for everyone to see for FREE.....worldwide on thier cams ? some peeps are gonna be really disappointed with you saying that ......guess that blows the new blockbuster idea that free cams (cough ! ) will do the same to the cam industry as tubes did to the adult video/movie paysite biz....

[Domain Diva]

To anyone that might have the next brainwave of maybe paid ads around true free cams and all other simlar ideas/concepts remember tubes are inexpensive to run compared to having live performers.

I have seen many different attempts to approach cams from new angles and the only idea that I have seen that I think could grow is a fixed ticket price per show ///ie $4,99 for a 1 hr show etc.....some are doing already.

Maybe someone will of course at some point do something breathtaking and unique but I have yet to see it.

[Jarmusch]

yeah it sucks, my conversions ratios went from 1:300 to 1:300,000 everyone should stop promoting cams, there is no money left to be made. All the paying customers have migrated to free cam sites, no one left to buy

I guess there is nothing left to sell, we should all close shop. Who ever is the last one out don't forget to turn off the lights. thanks.

Everyone take notice, this is solid advice.

The man knows what he's talking about.

[BIGTYMER]

To anyone that might have the next brainwave of maybe paid ads around true free cams and all other simlar ideas/concepts remember tubes are inexpensive to run compared to having live performers.

I have seen many different attempts to approach cams from new angles and the only idea that I have seen that I think could grow is a fixed ticket price per show ///ie $4,99 for a 1 hr show etc.....some are doing already.

Maybe someone will of course at some point do something breathtaking and unique but I have yet to see it.

I love your avatar. So kickass!

[Mutt]

there is an affiliate program in beta for MyFreeCams - anybody on GFY in on it? if so how are you doing with it compared to other big cam site programs?

[lagcam]

hey choker..i get that this is an adult webmaster board....but i dont need to see a cock in yoru avatar....id like to read your threads instead of never opening one again

I agree, and so now I have disabled all avatars, sigs and even images and now the forum is 100% better.

This again? Is the death of camsites a weekly thread now?

Anybody who thinks that free sex shows is where camsites make all their money should actually try running one. When you promote as an affiliate you have no idea what your referrers were doing in private, but believe me it is not always jerking off. A lot of the biggest spending whales like to talk also.

[slapass]

unless you paying tokens, you might as well be watching recorded webcam clips. The people who don't understand what ppm cams have to offer are the ones that would never buy in the first place. While you can see nudity on myfreewebcams, you are in a room with 500 people watching what you perceive to be live. But what does it really matter to you if it is live or not. You can't communicate with the girl, talk to her, tell her what to do (unless you pay). So what she is doing on camera she is doing right now, 10 minutes ago, or 10 days ago. For all you know it could be a recorded video.


ppm cams are typically high end customers, the people who can spend a couple hundred a week on porn and not think twice about it. Not the people who see a flashing live image and some tits and think, wow I get to see live girls on cams for free. People who spend money on cam sites don't pay to see a girl get naked, they can go watch a video and see that. They pay for the interaction, the control, the privacy, the personal attention, the 1 on 1. These people, who spend money on ppm cam sites aren't going to say, wow i found this cool free site where it is free now, great I don't have to pay any more. lol

You guys really don't get it, do you.

I sold cams for a while and I remember seeing guys come in and spend 60-100$ the first night and never see them again. Or sign up and get some $30 worth of credits and never see them again. It is the 80/20 rule but the new websites are nibbling at that 20%.

As for the models and the one on one, I am sure it is great until the girl gets greedy and tries to draw everything out. A pretty normal thing i am sure.

I do not doubt that the high quality cam experience is here to stay. I just think anything that goes after the same customer base makes it harder. If you sell cars in a city with great public transportation, your low end buyers will be harder to convince. Same deal.

[ErectMedia]

Free cams may take away sales on the guys that don't give a shit who they look at as long as the chick is naked but quite a few guys bounce around and buy a few minutes here and there but once they find a girl that gets them off they aint going anywhere whether she charges 1.99 or 4.99 a minute. I have seen guys spend 1.99 a minute for 30-45 minutes and do nothing else but talk to the chick. Some guys need an online girlfriend of sorts. I have seen one guy asking for relationship advice for over 30 paid minutes. Really hot chicks and chicks that actually talk to their customers will always retain the pay per minute model as those customers aren't looking for just any random chick there looking for someone to talk to that cares or at least fakes it pretty good. I can advertise one of my cam sites and make profit every time. I advertise one of my tgp, mgp and then I realize it's not 2002 anymore.

[Quagmire]

Well you can sell cock, i'll sell pussy.

i keep the pussy. i only sell what i don't want.

[ilnjscb]

Does anyone have stats to compare the two markets? Cams to membership/clip sales?