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#1

CamSense Not Paying under New Terms

03-08-2010, 03:45 AM

Times must be harsh for CamSense. What's one of the first things a company does when times are harsh? Watch out, webmasters.

CamSense have new Terms from December 1st 2009. I was aware of these new Terms and Conditions, but i kept sending some traffic here and there. Made a few sales, about 150 bucks in revenue. I've asked them what's going on and why the payment is not being issued. This is the answer i got.

Dear **********,

Thank you for contacting us.

Under the new CamSense Terms & Conditions (Effective Date: December 1, 2009) in order to continue receiving payments from CamSense, a person must either have a CamSense account that complies with the minimum traffic requirements i.e. to deliver at least 5 qualified spenders per month; or chathost account that complies with the "active chathost" requirement of conducting at least one live session in a 60-day period.

Please be aware that the new CamSense Terms & Conditions were implemented on December 1, 2009. Every affiliate received an email detailing the changes on December 1, the announcement was posted on CamSense News Section and the terms were posted on the Camsense site on the same day. You will note that the new terms clearly state that CamSense has the option to discontinue the payouts for your referred visitors who have become qualified spenders on a CC Network site upon your failure to meet the criteria for an Active Affiliate over a two (2) month period.
Please read full Terms and Conditions here: http://camsense.com/termsandconditions.html

There have been too many cases in which affiliates have not been actively working to send new traffic to our sites for months, in some cases years, and have still been collecting commissions on past spenders. Meanwhile, there are other affiliates who have been working hard to deliver new traffic to our sites each month. These partners are much more invested in the current success of our business, and it is those affiliates that we want to ensure are rewarded for their efforts.

For the last 60 days you delivered 1 spender to CC Network sites . Unfortunately this means that currently your account doesn't meet CamSense requirements and you forfeit the commissions from the lifetime revenue of past spenders.

Please keep in mind that your CamSense account is not being closed.
Lifetime commissions (on new spenders only) will be reinstated right after you regain Active Affiliate status i.e. deliver at least 5 qualified spenders per month to a CC Network site.

We thank you for your efforts over the years and sincerely hope that you return to active status so that we may continue our work together.

Best Regards,

If you're still sending traffic to CamSense, they will not issue the payment unless, among other absurd Terms, you do not send 5 qualified spenders per month. You have been warned.

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#2

03-08-2010, 03:55 AM

I was aware of these new Terms and Conditions, but i kept sending some traffic here and there

so you knew the terms changed, and you still want to be paid under the old terms ?

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#3

03-08-2010, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by darksoul

so you knew the terms changed, and you still want to be paid under the old terms ?

No. The money is gone, no problem. I am just telling everyone the news, so that others do not make the same mistake as i did.

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#4

03-08-2010, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by Gsx-R

I am just telling everyone the news

erm ok. But I doubt its news for anyone since they emailed all their affiliates about it.

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#5

03-08-2010, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by darksoul

erm ok. But I doubt its news for anyone since they emailed all their affiliates about it.

Yeah, might be so. Question is, why do you still accept traffic from these accounts that do not send at least 5 qualified spenders per month?

Also, do check this out:

Lifetime commissions (on new spenders only) will be reinstated right after you regain Active Affiliate status i.e. deliver at least 5 qualified spenders per month to a CC Network site.

I wonder if anyone is still sending traffic to them.

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#6

03-08-2010, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by darksoul

erm ok. But I doubt its news for anyone since they emailed all their affiliates about it.

I bet this will come to a shock to most of their affiliates, yes we know you are the type to read over carerfully every email you get from a program, and you bring all the terms and conditions to a 500 dollar an hour lawyer, but for most of us when we get a updated terms email, we usually assume that if we send legit traffic we will get paid, and the updated terms is realted to maybe a payment sched change or some rules that are designed to cut back on fraud etc.

so yes, glad he posted this, thanks

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#7

03-08-2010, 04:15 AM

LIFETIME REVSHARE

Completely retarted.
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#8

03-08-2010, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by darksoul

so you knew the terms changed, and you still want to be paid under the old terms ?

Yeah. I would still want to be paid on life time revshare of everyone I had sent in prior to the change. Would I send them new customers after this change, no.

Originally posted by darksoul

erm ok. But I doubt its news for anyone since they emailed all their affiliates about it.

Don't be nieve, even if they did email all of their affiliates there is a good chance that either the emails on file were no longer good, it went into the spam folders, got over looked mixed in with tons of other "annoucements" from other companies, or said they sent it and didn't.

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#9

03-08-2010, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by Gsx-R

Times must be harsh for CamSense. What's one of the first things a company does when times are harsh? Watch out, webmasters.

CamSense have new Terms from December 1st 2009. I was aware of these new Terms and Conditions, but i kept sending some traffic here and there. Made a few sales, about 150 bucks in revenue. I've asked them what's going on and why the payment is not being issued. This is the answer i got.

If you're still sending traffic to CamSense, they will not issue the payment unless, among other absurd Terms, you do not send 5 qualified spenders per month. You have been warned.

Thanks for sharing. Adding to the list I will never promote.

" to deliver at least 5 qualified spenders per month ". I am still not sure what that means other than they are screwing you. Does it mean I would have to send 5 NEW customers a month, or 5 existing customers would need to come back and spend money. Either way it sucks. What if I have a couple whales come drop $10,000 last month, I don't get paid because it was under "5" spenders?

Times get tough, they start at the bottom and start screwing their affiliates all the way up the ladder.

Pulling shit like this is a clear sign of a company that doesn't want new affiliates. Obviously you dont want new affiliates when you start pissing off a lot of the ones you already have. And buy doing stuff like this it will hurt your efforts to get new ones. My guess is money is real tight, someone ran some calculations and noticed if they stopped paying out all of the small affiliates they could have like $5,000 or $10,000 extra a month and that is their solution (for the moment) to dropping sales and being worried about staying in business.

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#10

03-08-2010, 05:08 AM

40% LIFETIME Revenue Share Program
Earn as much as 40% of all your viewers spend for life.
Landing a big spender could earn you thousands annually!
See examples of real viewers using the CC Network.

False advertising?

It says you earn on ALL of your viewers spend for life. It also says ONE big spender can earn you thousands. Not true. If you only have ONE big spender spending thousands would make you nothing.

Camsense if you are proud of your new changes and think there is nothing wrong with it why dont you put the information that there is min sales requirements to be met on the front page real big so everyone can see?

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#11

03-08-2010, 05:28 AM

Sig spot, nuf' said.
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#12

03-08-2010, 05:33 AM

There have been too many cases in which affiliates have not been actively working to send new traffic to our sites for months, in some cases years, and have still been collecting commissions on past spenders. Meanwhile, there are other affiliates who have been working hard to deliver new traffic to our sites each month. These partners are much more invested in the current success of our business, and it is those affiliates that we want to ensure are rewarded for their efforts.

This is such a crock of shit. First of all so fucking what if affiliates are not actively promoting you and still making money off of people they sent years ago? Didn't you advertise that this is part of the business plan and used this to get affiliates way back when?

And WTF does that have to do with affiliates that are sending people now? You make it sound like old affiliates are hurting the new affiliates, what a crock of shit. Wow I don't even know who this websense is but glad I found this post I'm looking for some cam sponsors and I would never send a single hit to this joke of a program.

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#13

03-08-2010, 05:35 AM

Damn, that sucks... Someone really dropped the soap with those term changes.

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#14

03-08-2010, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Choker

There have been too many cases in which affiliates have not been actively working to send new traffic to our sites for months, in some cases years, and have still been collecting commissions on past spenders. Meanwhile, there are other affiliates who have been working hard to deliver new traffic to our sites each month. These partners are much more invested in the current success of our business, and it is those affiliates that we want to ensure are rewarded for their efforts.

This is such a crock of shit. First of all so fucking what if affiliates are not actively promoting you and still making money off of people they sent years ago? Didn't you advertise that this is part of the business plan and used this to get affiliates way back when?

And WTF does that have to do with affiliates that are sending people now? You make it sound like old affiliates are hurting the new affiliates, what a crock of shit. Wow I don't even know who this websense is but glad I found this post I'm looking for some cam sponsors and I would never send a single hit to this joke of a program.

Well said.

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#15

03-08-2010, 05:48 AM

Those are some fucked up terms!!

I'd say take the loss and drop them.
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#16

03-08-2010, 08:00 AM

A company has a right to change anything they want, but should be obligated to grandfather in previous arrangements. Otherwise they just rip the webmaster off. Which seems to be happening more and more lately. When it's time to tighten up the belt, it's always going to be the affiliate webmasters that take it up the ass. Next up, your check minimum will be $1000 then $5000.
Then the company will finally close and steal the rest. Vote with your feet and walk away or you have no one to blame but yourself.

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#17

03-08-2010, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Choker

There have been too many cases in which affiliates have not been actively working to send new traffic to our sites for months, in some cases years, and have still been collecting commissions on past spenders. Meanwhile, there are other affiliates who have been working hard to deliver new traffic to our sites each month. These partners are much more invested in the current success of our business, and it is those affiliates that we want to ensure are rewarded for their efforts.

This is such a crock of shit. First of all so fucking what if affiliates are not actively promoting you and still making money off of people they sent years ago? Didn't you advertise that this is part of the business plan and used this to get affiliates way back when?

And WTF does that have to do with affiliates that are sending people now? You make it sound like old affiliates are hurting the new affiliates, what a crock of shit. Wow I don't even know who this websense is but glad I found this post I'm looking for some cam sponsors and I would never send a single hit to this joke of a program.

You beat me to this one. If the terms didn't suck bad enough the wording of that paragraph makes me wanna cyber punch that fucking prick!

Not that I promote them in any way, shape or form... just sayin
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#18

03-09-2010, 02:10 AM

Times are tough, i wonder when and who will be the next program to do something like this.

This move of CamSense is clearly a move towards screwing their affiliates. They are covered, they have changed Terms and announced, but that does not make it right.

It's a shame programs/companies can do almost anything they want in this business. I'm only losing on 150 bucks and that's my fault anyway because i kept sending traffic, so don't really care about that... but what if i had 10+ whales spending every month there at CamSense? I'd be losing on some serious cash because of what? Because i can't send 5 qualified spenders per month? That's hilarious.

Affiliates have no safety over their work. Any program can take their money and like it or not, there's not much you can do about it. They just slap new Terms or something like this and done. Sure, if you have traffic, you will always be ok, but still... It's not right and does not add to a better image of this business.

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#19

03-09-2010, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by ruff

Vote with your feet and walk away or you have no one to blame but yourself.

Exactly.
I have a feeling this is not happening though, as right now they don't seem hurt or they'll change back in a split.

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#20

03-09-2010, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by darksoul

so you knew the terms changed, and you still want to be paid under the old terms ?

seems pretty straightforward doesn't it.. just like if you bought a house and the bank changed the terms to say you must give him handjobs every month to keep your house. You would probably want to go with the old contract.

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#21

03-09-2010, 08:17 AM

That is a pretty shitty rule - When you sent the customer (maybe 2 months ago, maybe 2 years) you were under no pretense that it was "lifetime only if we don't change our ToS in the meantime".

Implement it for new affiliates only perhaps, but when someone just starting out and only sends 2-3 members at first and you don't pay them? That's a good way to get them to leave.

It's a bad decision on their part but they know that, for the most part, the ones effected by this weren't doing much for them anyway. So yes, it's another way to shit on the little guys.
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#22

03-09-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear

seems pretty straightforward doesn't it.. just like if you bought a house and the bank changed the terms to say you must receive an ass fucking every month to keep your house. You would probably want to go with the old contract.

I fixed your post a little to better describe the situation
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#23

03-09-2010, 11:32 AM

Good to know.

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#24

03-09-2010, 12:21 PM

I see they take over the shady tactics of another webcam sponsor who is killing affiliates step by step until they have all the traffic and cash. Started on the same time the other one did it also.

If you ask me, they are all fucking the affiliate behind closed doors.

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#25

03-09-2010, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Tjeezers

I see they take over the shady tactics of another webcam sponsor who is killing affiliates step by step until they have all the traffic and cash. Started on the same time the other one did it also.

If you ask me, they are all fucking the affiliate behind closed doors.

What's the name of the other webcam sponsor?

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#26

03-09-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by ruff

A company has a right to change anything they want, but should be obligated to grandfather in previous arrangements. Otherwise they just rip the webmaster off. Which seems to be happening more and more lately. When it's time to tighten up the belt, it's always going to be the affiliate webmasters that take it up the ass. Next up, your check minimum will be $1000 then $5000.
Then the company will finally close and steal the rest. Vote with your feet and walk away or you have no one to blame but yourself.

the fact is the previous affiliate agreement was a valid contract for the members that signup under that agreement, and the "lifetime" revshare from those people should be paid out.

you can't just void your previous commitments/responsibilities (at least under canadian laws)

while the tos change would justify not paying out revshare on the POST DEC 2009 sales nothing legally justifies voiding the previous fiscal responsibility.

affilates who are screwed should get together to sue for the net present value of the income stream stolen.

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#27

03-11-2010, 07:09 AM

I've been with camsense for 10 years.
I've sent them quality traffic consistently.
They paid me consistently as well.
Until now, of course.
Lately I've had a lot going on offline, and have had most of my sites on autopilot...ie. I still send traffic, but not current big campaigns.

I also didn't get paid, and also got that same email. If you read it carefully and consider the implications, there are some nasty twists in it:

"For the last 60 days you delivered 6 spenders to CC Network sites . Unfortunately this means that currently your account doesn't meet CamSense requirements and you forfeit the commissions from the lifetime revenue of past spenders"

Forfeit. It's not on hold until you get reinstated as an active affiliate, camsense pockets it. In other words they can send you an email like this every time, irrespective of what any whales might spend, and tell you that you sent less than 5 new spenders. You can't see from their stats whether this is true or not, you just have to believe them.

"Please keep in mind that your CamSense account is not being closed"

Ah, instead of saying to you "sorry dude, you don't make the cut" and deleting your ass, they keep you on, so that no matter what those whales spend, camsense pockets it, and you're working for them for free.

Needless to say I emailed back and said that it's OK, they needn't close the account, I'll close the damned thing myself. LOL only to discover that there's no way to close the account, at least I can't find a link anywhere on their site.

It took 2 full days to switch out all my links...the bastards are gonna keep getting google cache hits from me for a while though.

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#28

03-11-2010, 07:20 AM

nice, checking into this when back at the office.

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#29

03-11-2010, 07:26 AM

its good to know

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#30

03-11-2010, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by mule

[...]

Exactly. If you send 4 whales that spend 10k USD or whatever and you fail to send the 5th qualified spender, you lose the commission. They don't keep it until you send the 5th qualified spender, no, they keep it for good.

It's amazing, anybody still promoting CamSense under these new Terms is insane.

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#31

03-11-2010, 07:41 AM

you cant just change terms on people like that.. this makes no sense..

its like me starting an affiliate company, then when im ready to bail, i'll update terms to change minimum payout to $500,000

effectively i'll just run with every affiliates money and be scott free huh??

fucking scammers

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#32

03-11-2010, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Gsx-R

What's the name of the other webcam sponsor?

awempire, they recently switched to a tiered referral system but neglected to tell anyone that all cash made from older affiliates would be seized by awempire and they would no longer pay under the contract they agreed to.

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#33

03-11-2010, 08:22 AM

Wow, so a webmaster works hard to build up a revenue stream, then something catastrophic happens and over time they can't send the minimum amount of spenders. So in their time of need you take their hard earned money that they could use to pay bills, feed the family.....CLASS ACT

Last edited by beerptrol; 03-11-2010, 08:24 AM.

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#34

03-11-2010, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by beerptrol

Wow, so a webmaster works hard to build up a revenue stream, then something catastrophic happens and over time they can't send the minimum amount of spenders. So in their time of need you take their hard earned money that they could use to pay bills, feed the family.....CLASS ACT

That's it, in a nutshell.

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#35

03-11-2010, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear

awempire, they recently switched to a tiered referral system but neglected to tell anyone that all cash made from older affiliates would be seized by awempire and they would no longer pay under the contract they agreed to.

Ah... got it. Well, they never had clear rules about their revshare payments, so i did not really look into it.

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#36

03-11-2010, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Gsx-R

Ah... got it. Well, they never had clear rules about their revshare payments, so i did not really look into it.

Yeah, they suck as well. But then, they always sucked. It's more shocking when a solid company like Camsense pulls this shit.

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#37

03-11-2010, 09:21 AM

that's plain theft in my eyes

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#38

03-11-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by MaDalton

that's plain theft in my eyes

what he said!!!!
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#39

03-11-2010, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by MaDalton

that's plain theft in my eyes

When I met the guy who started camsense, he begged me never to tell anyone who he was, where he came from, or which country camsense is based in. That should have been a warning sign, but the reason he gave was that the underworld in said country was targeting him. I almost feel like giving that underworld the benefit of my knowledge now.

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#40

03-11-2010, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by mule

When I met the guy who started camsense, he begged me never to tell anyone who he was, where he came from, or which country camsense is based in. That should have been a warning sign, but the reason he gave was that the underworld in said country was targeting him. I almost feel like giving that underworld the benefit of my knowledge now.

lol - maybe you should remind him of that conversation

so he isn't dutch?

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Klen

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#41

03-11-2010, 11:10 AM

Reminds me to bet365 program where is also requirement minimum 5 refereed to get payout,but at least there is no forfeit thing there.But that is stupid thing,because my first customer there was spended money and i was plus then,and second one was winning and big minus was made.If there was no that rule,then there wont be any minus and both bet365 and me would be in plus.
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goodsites

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#42

03-11-2010, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Choker

There have been too many cases in which affiliates have not been actively working to send new traffic to our sites for months, in some cases years, and have still been collecting commissions on past spenders. Meanwhile, there are other affiliates who have been working hard to deliver new traffic to our sites each month. These partners are much more invested in the current success of our business, and it is those affiliates that we want to ensure are rewarded for their efforts.

This is such a crock of shit. First of all so fucking what if affiliates are not actively promoting you and still making money off of people they sent years ago? Didn't you advertise that this is part of the business plan and used this to get affiliates way back when?

And WTF does that have to do with affiliates that are sending people now? You make it sound like old affiliates are hurting the new affiliates, what a crock of shit. Wow I don't even know who this websense is but glad I found this post I'm looking for some cam sponsors and I would never send a single hit to this joke of a program.

This reply has my complete stamp of approval. It's nothing more than common sense and the truth.. as you can see the horse is spewing the shit, and for some reason the common person swallows this shit... The truth is.. they are going out of business and taking your money wtih them... Better seek your solutions now, it may be too late tommorow
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MaDalton

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#43

03-11-2010, 11:19 AM

affiliates should email the members that they referred and recommend to quit and go to some other site (granted you have access to that email address)

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mule

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#44

03-11-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by MaDalton

so he isn't dutch?

Nope he isn't

Converting like a mofo
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mule

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#45

03-11-2010, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by MaDalton

affiliates should email the members that they referred and recommend to quit and go to some other site (granted you have access to that email address)

According to the camsense stats, in the 10 years I promoted them I never referred one single affiliate, at least not one that made any sales...pretty fishy too

Converting like a mofo
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VladS

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#46

03-11-2010, 11:47 AM

Mule, how much did you lose from revshare members due to this change of Terms?

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rokoroko

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#47

03-11-2010, 01:45 PM

so can anybody post such a NeGATIVE list of CAM Sponsors to avoid them ?

I think , It would be a great contribution for the members here and maybe a lesson for the potential other sponsors , who are considering the "new terms" too.

Last edited by rokoroko; 03-11-2010, 01:47 PM.
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Quagmire

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#48

03-11-2010, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by rokoroko

so can anybody post such a NeGATIVE list of CAM Sponsors to avoid them ?

I think , It would be a great contribution for the members here and maybe a lesson for the potential other sponsors , who are considering the "new terms" too.

all of them
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rokoroko

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#49

03-11-2010, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Quagmire

all of them

I have post such a thread right now so anybody who has such infos should add it there !

thanks for share
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lazycash

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#50

03-11-2010, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by mule

Yeah, they suck as well. But then, they always sucked. It's more shocking when a solid company like Camsense pulls this shit.

Interesting, I always considered Camsense at the bottom of the barrel amongst cam sponsors and I've been promoting cams for 11 years. Even though they are one of the oldest cam sponsors, they never really hit the big time because their 10% revshare was so far below all of their competitors that they never really garnered much webmaster following. I have heard good things about them in the past, just never gave them much thought because of their horrible payout, but did look into them in the last couple of years when they finally decided to raise their revshare payout %.

"WTF, on google you can find the answer to every question in human history, EXCEPT how to convert cams..

Its crazy..."

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