BFT3K

Please define your opinion of how much an individual in 2010, here in the US, needs to make to be considered poor, average, and rich.

For example - a person making less than $blank = poor

A person making between $blank and $blank would be considered average.

A person who makes more than $blank is rich.

Please fill in your interpretation of the blanks so we can better understand each other.

Vendzilla

You can read I assume, I clearly stated what the government considered poor

In 2005, a family of four was considered to be at the poverty level if they earned less than $19,350

Not my opinion, governments opinion

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

BFT3K

Earlier in this thread you made this statement...

So I am asking you this...

Please define your opinion of how much an individual in 2010, here in the US, needs to make to be considered poor, average, and rich.

For example - a person making less than $blank = poor

A person making between $blank and $blank would be considered average.

A person who makes more than $blank is rich.

Please fill in your interpretation of the blanks so we can better understand each other.

Vendzilla

Not going by what I think, going by what the government thinks

What i think is that they go by a national average, but 20k buys a lot more in South Carolina than is does in Santa Barbera

The liberals are going on about cutting taxes for the rich, BUT

Best tax break ever for the poor was given by a republican

Anyone that has a beef with the GOP and there taxes, talk to a poor family and ask how they love earned income credit and tell them to thank a REPUBLICAN president.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

BFT3K

You must be right - the GOP is the party who cares the most about the poor.

I don't know what I was thinking.

Unrelated, this is a pretty good amount of cheese!...

Vendzilla

that cheese must be for your wihine?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

and I know the tax rate on the wealthiest Americans has gone down about 60% since 1940, to a level insufficient to sustain this nation's infrastructure.

dig420

How about you don't talk a bunch of shit that even you don't believe? There is no podium here, there is no need to lie for votes like your politicians do. Conservatives represent #1 Big business #2 the top tax bracket. You know it. I know it. The whole board knows it. So why are you bothering to spout this bullshit?

The Demon

And the Democrats represent the people? ROFL.

__________________
Greed is Good

wig

I must have missed where you provided me the studies.

Isn't it just easier to say you misspoke when adding "atheists" to your post?

__________________
Credit Card and ACH Processing

Vendzilla

Conservatives still gave the poor the biggest tax break they have called the Earned Income Credit. Thanx to Nixon and Ford

Big business employs people, it they can get a break and spend more on employment and less on taxes, they can employ more people, better for the country. Instead the Liberals would tax them out of the country. Small business's are crippled by the taxes and fees they have to deal with. Even the present administration is working tax breaks for small business to promote growth.

If you are going to call Bull Shit, back it up

Please stay out of a debate that you are clearly ignorant to

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Just a quick question, I stated that the poor didn't pay taxes, why are you going on about the rich paying less of a %?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

The Demon

No I agree not all atheists are liberals, but I would think most liberals are atheists. I did generalize with that though.

__________________
Greed is Good

The Demon

You are arguing with people too stupid to bring facts into the thread.

__________________
Greed is Good

Tom_PM

Now here's Roy.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

BFT3K

Who really controls America...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI

BFT3K

God bless America...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=uuOBf-39t64

BFT3K

You have no rights...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E

Vendzilla

thats it, loose on facts and bring up comedy

You've been owned

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

Big businesses don't create jobs, they destroy jobs by consolidation, union busting, monopolies and political lobbying. A business has no interest in 'creating jobs', it only has interest in the bottom line and the value of it's shares. It is the GOVERNMENT'S business to create jobs by keeping big business in check and ensuring fair labor practices and a competitive environment in the marketplace thru regulation of those businesses. However, it's doubtful that you know any history whatsoever of the major corporations in this country, or you would know that already.

I RUN a small business, and I don't consider myself 'crippled' by taxes. In fact, I don't pay ENOUGH taxes considering how much money I make, and this is why the infrastructure of this country is collapsing. You want to talk about some pissant tax break enacted by some Republican, who gives a shit? That had NO effect on the lives of the lower and middle class compared to the damage done to them by the Republican's lowering the top tax rates over and over without comparable decreases in govt. spending, by their increasing corporate welfare via the expansion of the defense industry, and by their constant bought and paid for by lobbying attempts to deregulate big business in every way possible, INCLUDING allowing them to dump toxins on public lands, repeal of workplace safety laws, etc and so on. You want to talk about something that helped the middle class? Learn about the new deal, which actually used public lands to IMPROVE the infrastructure of the US, giving real jobs to laborers, which gave them enough money to have a little discretionary income, which helped EVERYONE in the long run, including business, since people finally had money to spend on their products.

BFT3K

First off, you are the one who refused to commit to the answers I asked you numerous times throughout this thread.

Secondly, to believe the Repulitards are out to help the poor, is about as ignorant a thought as a person could have.

Thirdly, to state that the poor do not pay taxes, as a blanket statement, and then not quantify where "poor" ends and "rich" begins, shows you are only interested in arguing.

You seem to state your position in much the same pathetic manner as The Demon, who is clearly the dumbest poster on this board, bar none!

"You've been owned" ??? This is what you bring to the table?

This is what teenage punk idiots bring to the table. Maybe you can meet up with The Demon and merge your quarter wit, with his quarter wit, and together you can become a hybrid halfwit of some sort.

And then, in conclusion, the Carlin clips I recently added are actually on-topic to this thread, as opposed to most of what you've been spewing on about anyway.

Joshua G

wow this thread went off the rails.
the issue of who pays the most taxes is technical. The rich pay the bulk of tax revenues, simply because they are rich.
but the rich pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes than the middle class. This is because Bushie & co. lowered the cap gains rate from 35 to 15% at the top. Most rich people make the bulk of the money off capital gains instead of paychecks. even top CEOs get the bulk of their pay from stock options, not a weekly check. So a perversion exists where billionaire buffett pays 15%, & his 30K secretary pays 25%. I would love for the right wingers in this thread to defend that fact.
the poor pay no taxes either. instead, they get paid through the earned income tax credit.
so its really just the middle class, & upper middle class that get hosed from the tax man.

BFT3K

This may be the most reasonable addition to this thread so far...

Thanks PR_Tom!

Vendzilla

Sorry my answer was not to your liking
Are you saying that earned income credit never happened?
Again, I answered this, going by what the government says is poor and what a family of four under 20k makes and pays no taxes
I love George and will miss him and satire can be used in either direction and maybe keep from calling me names or thinking you know anything about me to yourself would be a good thing, all it does is lower anyone's expectations pf your intelligence

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

You actually think its the governments responsibility to create jobs?

Go talk to a poor family and find out how they depend on that tax break

Not getting in to the rest of that, both the dems and GOP are fucked up in their ways, but attacking the GOP on tax breaks for the rich is something I find funny, it gets old and is a spin

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

BFT3K

I don't take the silly insults on this board to heart - I think when you play on a site called GoFuckYourself.com it is likely some insults will be tossed around. You may be a great guy - I have no beef with you. If you wind up in the NY area I'll buy you a beer.

You have to admit, the two quarter wits = one halfwit line was pretty funny though - I was laughing as I typed it out. I'll probably use it again on a few friends later tonight!

The Demon on the other hand.... now he is likely an all-out idiot - on the board or not!

JP-pornshooter

interesting "facts"
i was thinking that perhaps sexually exclusive = like girls only (as opposed to bi)

__________________
"Obscenity is whatever gives the Judge an erection." -- Author Unknown

Vendzilla

I think the Demon is more of a hard core conservative than I am. I'm a registered independent that tries to keep an open mind. Just don't fuck with my guns! LOL
I use to moderate on this forum ( I have the shirt, hoodie and watch cap )and I have a pretty thick skin, I don't take anything personally.
When I get to NY next time, We'll have that beer. My mom loves NY, my sister gets a deal on a suite near Times Square for her thru her company.

It's important to have debates like this, during this thread I remembered about the Earned Income Credit that pays out quite a bit of money to families in need, I remember dating a girl several years ago that had two kids, she made only 17k a year, paid out no federal taxes and got a check back from the fed for over 5k, that's getting from the government a check equal to over 25% of her income. That's a pretty substantial check for her. So taxing for just the rich really didn't make sense to me, sounded more like a spin and we are all getting tired of that.

The two party system has to go Bye Bye, no one is winning, we are all losing

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

Newsflash: No party is going to take away taxbreaks from the poor. The Repubs would do it if they could get away with it, but they can't. Yet.

Job creation and economic decision making is a function of the government, yes. Have you ever heard of the great depression? How do you think we got out of that? By giving tax breaks to the rich? No, that's how we got INTO it. That's why we were heading, and perhaps still are, into another huge depression.

This bullshit about how the dems and repubs are all the same is just that. Bullshit. There are very significant differences between the parties both in practical and philosophical terms, and they matter a great deal. Thinking there is no difference between them is a product of laziness, not knowing your history, and not wanting to do the work to find out what that difference is. Re your comment about a two party system, if you think there's a better system out there I'd love to hear about it. Dictatorships suck, communism sucks, and we started this country by running away from a parliamentary system. Democracy might be an awful way to run a country, but it's still the best system we have to choose from, and it's enshrined in our constitution. You want to do away with our democracy? Sounds pretty un-american and un-patriotic to me.

Vendzilla

But the GOP is the only party that has given the poor a tax break of any size

Again, where did I say anything about giving the rich a tax break, I pointed out that the poor either pay very little or NO taxes and the statements that liberals use to beat their drums with are " they gave tax breaks to only the rich" It's purely a spin tactic, sorry you can't see thatOK, you don't know me, but I will say one thing to you, never accuse me of being either UN-American or UN-Patriotic, I served my country, I have the ribbons and medals to prove it and I doubt you have the balls to follow in my foot steps. I raised my daughter as a single dad and she's in the Navy now, she has 8 ribbons and a warfare pin. And if you think I'm either of those things, GO FUCK YOURSELF
The two party system doesn't work in it's present state
I never stated that the two parties are the same
You want a better system, make the constitution legal again

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

yeah, I served in the military too, so you can drop the fake halo, that doesn't mean shit to me. Being ex-military doesn't give you one fucking ounce more of 'patriotic' cred than anyone else, unless you're a warhawk too scared to serve, like Cheney, Limbaugh et al and so on in an endless conservative procession.

You trying to pretend that the GOP has ANYTHING to do with helping the poor is revolting, and you and all the other conservatives talking about secession in one breath then talking about the constitution like it's a divine document the next is so schitzophrenic it's breathtaking. The poor pay little taxes because THEY HAVE NO FUCKING MONEY. Ok? The question is why don't corporations and the wealthiest tax brackets pay more taxes, and in many cases NO taxes. The answer is because of bought and paid for CONSERVATIVE, REPUBLICAN legislators. Not the liberals. Not the democrats. There IS someone to blame for the mess we're in, and it's called the Republican Party.

Vendzilla

The dems have been in control of the house and the senate for over 3 years, and with a dem president for over a year, the GOP has no power to speak of, so quit blaming them for the problems. We have a democrats in charge and no leadership

Again, debate me on the Earned Income Credit and tell me something that the Democrats have done for the poor thats better? Something that puts more money in their hands?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

They have no power to speak of? Funny I keep hearing about this 'filibuster' thing over and over then. What have the dems done for the poor? How about supporting medicaid, unions, social security, workplace safety, environmental protection, regulations against price gouging and monopolies, the minimum wage, health care, housing for the destitute and mentally ill, rehab of drug addicts instead of incarceration, pretty much everything having to do with having any access to the resources of this nation, and anything having to do with using the resources of this nation for the common good instead of for those whose hands have the most ready access to the trough.

Now, you keep going on about the EITC, which admittedly I don't know much about, and I also don't like the tactic where you pretend that you don't know Republicans represent corporations and high earners, even though you do, and try to throw in some tiny, technical red herring as if it means anything in the face of the obvious truth. However, a few seconds googling told me that Russell Long, a democrat from Louisiana, is responsible for the EITC, and also that the repubs wanted to kill it but Clinton saved it, and it has pretty much been a democrat program since then.

"Long's contributions to the United States' tax laws include the Earned Income Tax Credit, a program aimed at reducing the tax burden on poor working families, the Child Support Enforcement Act, and Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs), employee benefit plans designed to allow employees to invest in the stock of their employers. In the year 2006, the Earned Income Tax Credit lifted more than four million people above the poverty line and was called ?the nation?s most effective antipoverty program for working families.?[2] Long also initiated the provision that allows a taxpayer to allocate $1 of taxes for a Presidential election campaign fund checkoff (the "dollar checkoff").

Democratic senators named him the party Assistant Majority Leader (whip) in 1965. He lost this leadership position in 1969 to Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, but remained as Senate Finance Committee Chairman. He had especially good relations with both of his senatorial colleagues from Louisiana, first Allen J. Ellender and, then, J. Bennett Johnston, Jr., who like Long was born in Shreveport."

dig420

So would I.

Vendzilla

Long thought it up, Nixon liked it, Ford signed into law, thats right, a GOP president, but thanx for finally admiting that the GOP did something good for the poor.
And I knew all about the unions, I have two union cards, and I know about all the other stuff, thats not what I was talking about, I was talking about taxes and money in the hands of the poor.
He can afford a good tax attorney.
The tax laws are pretty screwed up

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

oh I see... so the Republican pres deserves credit for the Democrat's bill. That paragon of virtue, Richard Nixon, always thinking of the little guy. I'll remember that if a Republican ever comes out with some decent legislation during a Democratic presidency instead of thuggishly trying to bring the government to a standstill. So this tax situation is screwed up in favor of the billionaires, but you're still sitting here wasting my time and your keystrokes defending it. Brilliant.

Vendzilla

Tell me you don't blame Bush still for the mess this country is in when the democrats have had the house and the senate for the last 3 years, tell me you don't praise Clinton for the great work he did after 94 when the house and the senate became GOP controled.
Ford vetoed a lot of things that stuck during his presidency with a democrat senate, this is something he liked and saw that it was good for the people, but you have your liberal head so far up your ass, nothing thats done for the good of the people is nothing compared to whats left and whats right, thats all you see

And I feel sorry for you

I'm done here, no more posting in this thread for me

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dig420

Hell yes I blame him... number one, I blame him for stopping the recount. Number two, I blame him for starting wars, based off of knowing lies (Colin Powell at the UN) that bankrupted our economy. I blame him for putting corporations in charge of the DOE, the Dept. of Natural Resources and many other things. Mostly I blame him for blatantly lying to the country and bankrupting us. Clinton did a lot of good things and would have done a lot more if not for your lovely republican Congress and Senate putting the country on lockdown over a blowjob.

The funny thing is that despite the fact that you seem to be a fairly intelligent person, you won't learn anything from this conversation. The fact that all your points for Conservatives got eaten up won't matter, the fact that the ONLY thing you were able to point to as a Conservative accomplishment turned out to be a DEMOCRAT accomplishment doesn't mean a thing to you. Conservatives don't learn, ever. They consider it un-american.

Conservatism isn't a decision people reach after research and consideration. It's a knee-jerk reaction to some fancy-pants librull they don't like. It's not a political position, it's a personality disorder.

DAMNMAN

Liked that one, huh?

__________________
email: zmaster (at) earthlink.net
ICQ: 196678616
ZMASTER

One less god!!!
I contend that we are both an atheist. I just belive in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

DAMNMAN

I am so straight down the middle as far as political parties are concerned in the country that it's impossible to align with either of them.

I'm with republicans on gun ownership 100% I think any US citizen should have one if they desire.

I'm with the Democrats on abortion 100% I think any US citizen should have one if they desire.

These are 2 hardcore issues for each party, So I am unable on these 2 issues to pick one that outweighs the other.

I am an atheist, but I believe in freedom of religion. (Though I would prefer freedom from religion!!! just no legislated that way)

The Republican party is nothing like the party was even 50 years ago. They have become the party to religion, big business, and hate of other types of people.

My questions to all of you republicans in here are.

Can a person who is in porn movies, makes porn, sells porn or profits from porn in any way align themselves with the republican party and not be the bastard child of that party?
Aren't they diametrically opposing schools of thought these days? Republican's aren't about free love and sex without marriage. (Supposedly)

Can a person who makes a living off of porn be a god fearing christian and not be hypocritical?

What about it? If you are on this board shouldn't you at least be in the middle somewhere?

Does anyone here shoot a porno movie on Friday and then go to church with the family on Sunday?

How can this be? I am genuinely interested in how this works.

Do the people at your church know that you are a porn producer or sales person? Do you hide it from them?

How do the other Christians etc..... feel about you if you have told them?

OK, I have left out the Democrats for the sake of this, this doesn't mean I think they are fantastic either.

__________________
email: zmaster (at) earthlink.net
ICQ: 196678616
ZMASTER

One less god!!!
I contend that we are both an atheist. I just belive in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

The Demon

You forgot to add that you like men but you're against same sex marriages.

__________________
Greed is Good

DAMNMAN

Actually some of my best friends are men... >:-)~ haahaa

I don't personally fuck guys etc..... 'cause I are one and I have an affinty for vaginas. (but, who knows? I could be sleeping with old goalies in the future!!!) - SLAPSHOT

That said, if you are a man and you like having sex with men, I'll not stand in your way of happiness and the pusuit of it. I wouldn't support any law that limited these freedoms.
That include a ban on gay marriage!!!! Don't take my rights and I won't help 'em take yours.

This applies to lesbians too, but only if I can watch!!!

__________________
email: zmaster (at) earthlink.net
ICQ: 196678616
ZMASTER

One less god!!!
I contend that we are both an atheist. I just belive in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

The Demon

Notice how our values and morals have fallen since the 50's and are being replaced with secularism and relativism. At the same time, we have the impending fall of American civilization. Coincidence?

__________________
Greed is Good

DAMNMAN

Ya' the values that said owning people of a different color was cool. Glad we moved on.

__________________
email: zmaster (at) earthlink.net
ICQ: 196678616
ZMASTER

One less god!!!
I contend that we are both an atheist. I just belive in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

DAMNMAN

May I remind you that you are on a PORN WEBMASTER BOARD so I can only assume you are speaking of these vaules in the third party. Unless you are here doing research for your ministry!!!

__________________
email: zmaster (at) earthlink.net
ICQ: 196678616
ZMASTER

One less god!!!
I contend that we are both an atheist. I just belive in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

The Demon

First of all, you're using slavery, which is the only instance, as your argument which fails 100%. Moreover, porn existed in the 50's although not as much as today, but I'm not really talking about porn because it's free speech that I support, as long as it's kept in its own industry. I'm talking about the morals and ethics we constantly give up for "relativism" because we want an excuse to do whatever the hell we like and get away with it.

__________________
Greed is Good

dig420

Hell yes, you can pick one. First off, not all dems - in fact, very few dems - are totally anti-guns. They're anti ASSAULT weapons. Not anti-shotgun, not anti-hunting rifle.

Second re the porn issue: It's pretty damn simple to choose the party that's NOT constantly trying to take Huck Finn off of library bookshelves and that's NOT trying to legislate which sex you can fuck, and which hole you can fuck them in. Easy choice.

dig420

Says the porn webmaster. You're mentally ill, aren't you?

The Demon

I'm not a porn webmaster. I was wrong, you totally haven't hit your potential of "stupid" yet.

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Greed is Good