Tube Law Suit

[Desirae]

Hey there,
One of my affiliates forwarded this article to me. http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538. I was wondering if anyone has already posted this on gfy.

I know that most affiliates do not approve of tubes. They are destroying our industry. I've had to request that many of our movies be taken down. It is a pain in the ass. I remember when 2257 was crazy intense, and everyone was scrambling for model releases & a physical address just in case they had to show them to authorities. What the hell happened with that? Now there are full length FREE movies without one shred of 2257 information. Then there is the "If you can't beat them, join em" mentality going on like crazy. More and more free tubes pop up - a big cluster fuck gang bang of bullshit. I mean it is one thing if the tube gives you credit for a teaser clip with a link back. I am hoping that is where this thing is eventually heading. I just don't understand why they are hoarding all of that traffic- is it just for banner ads? Or are they planning on converting back to more teaser clips (with a pop shot of course) and becoming affiliates of all of the adult programs out there? I know it is like kicking a dead horse, and everybody has probably already brought this up a million times on this board. I haven't posted in here for an eternity, but this is something that I just cannot wrap my head around.

What do you think is the future for tubes in our industry?
Since tubes came out - has your $$ as an affiliate dwindled?

Have a great day!- thanks for listening.

Desirae

[Cyber Fucker]

Yes, it was x times posted.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by bbwebmaster

Yes, it was x times posted.

Where was it posted? Do you happen to have the link- I am curious what others had to say about it.

thanks much
Desirae

[Wizzo]

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=954077 <- It was the biggest of 5or6 posted.

[96ukssob]

Heres whats going to happen... nothing.

Scenario #1 - Brazzers convinces a judge that they are being singled out and Pinks videos are all over the net and they even offer them in other tubes. Brazzers pushes that the videos were uploaded by a 3rd party and they provided evidence they had the right to distribute the content

Scenario #2 - Ends up in a porn favoring judge's court who realizes Brazzers is a thief. Sides with Pink but for 1/2 of what they are suing for. Brazzers contests the ruling and files bankruptcy few weeks later and a new company suddenly appears as Brezzers

Don't forget in California if you win a court case, the state can not force you to pay, you have to collect; unlike other states that can freeze bank accounts and wages (ive been through this in 2005 and 2007 with two different companies).

However, this is just the beginning. Large programs are going to continue to create tube sites with hundreds of full length movies to pull people into their network and join to see more and more content... the affiliate porn model is slowly dying IMO

[sandman!]

welcome to yesterdays news babe!

[fatfoo]

The future of tube sites still looks very profitable.

I say this, because even though this lawsuit was filed, the tube are getting huge amounts of traffic.

This is what it says in the article:

Among Pink Visual?s findings included in the suit are that:

PornHub.com ranks among the top 50 websites in the world and is among the top 35 sites in the U.S.;

Tube8.com ranks among the top 80 sites in the world and in the U.S. in terms of the number of visitors;

ExtremeTube.com is among the top 1,000 sites in the U.S. and the world; and,

KeezMovies.com over the past six months has catapulted its ranking to one of the top 200 most-popular sites in the world in terms of visitors.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by bossku69

Heres whats going to happen... nothing.

Scenario #1 - Brazzers convinces a judge that they are being singled out and Pinks videos are all over the net and they even offer them in other tubes. Brazzers pushes that the videos were uploaded by a 3rd party and they provided evidence they had the right to distribute the content

Scenario #2 - Ends up in a porn favoring judge's court who realizes Brazzers is a thief. Sides with Pink but for 1/2 of what they are suing for. Brazzers contests the ruling and files bankruptcy few weeks later and a new company suddenly appears as Brezzers

Don't forget in California if you win a court case, the state can not force you to pay, you have to collect; unlike other states that can freeze bank accounts and wages (ive been through this in 2005 and 2007 with two different companies).

However, this is just the beginning. Large programs are going to continue to create tube sites with hundreds of full length movies to pull people into their network and join to see more and more content... the affiliate porn model is slowly dying IMO

It is really sad. I hear what you are saying. I know of a lot of affiliates that just went back to work and threw in the towel trying to compete with their picture tgps etc. I wonder what would happen if the 2257 regulations were more strictly enforced. I remember when the internet lawyers were requesting all of us to use these age verification index pages...lol...

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by sandman!

welcome to yesterdays news babe!

Yeah, lol - well I am glad to hear that others were posting about it.

thanks
Desirae

[fris]

first ive heard of the company named brazzers, they must be new

[96ukssob]

Originally Posted by Desirae

It is really sad. I hear what you are saying. I know of a lot of affiliates that just went back to work and threw in the towel trying to compete with their picture tgps etc. I wonder what would happen if the 2257 regulations were more strictly enforced. I remember when the internet lawyers were requesting all of us to use these age verification index pages...lol...

I see it as a good and bad thing. Bad because its killing off smaller affiliate, but good because it IS killing off smaller affiliates.

When I really started in the adult industry (2002 ish) it was not easy and a lot of programs gave limited content. I had to spend hours creating galleries and TGP software was hella expensive.

two years ago all you have to do is pay $10 for a domain and the rest is handed to you on a silver platter. Shit, people still bitch because they have to pay $50 for some great piece of software that should probably cost a few hundred.

The bad part is if you dont have a lot of money, you are going to sink, and sink fast. You need a lot of content and traffic to compete with big tubes... which brings this back to being a business and like any other business, you need money and you need to take a risk.

Think back about two years ago to any niche and how much saturation was out there. I can tell you when I used to push tranny sites hard back in the day there was only a select few really good sites to trade traffic with. now there are millions of sites all pushing the same content. Why is a visitor going to join anyway?

But they even worse news is honest affiliates that are now scraping to get by are going to resort to other tactics to earn a living. Cookie stuffing? Malware downloads? or even worse

[Barefootsies]

I think you need to post up some pictures of your toes and soles.

[the Shemp]

Originally Posted by Desirae

Hey there,
One of my affiliates forwarded this article to me. http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538. I was wondering if anyone has already posted this on gfy.

I know that most affiliates do not approve of tubes. They are destroying our industry. I've had to request that many of our movies be taken down. It is a pain in the ass. I remember when 2257 was crazy intense, and everyone was scrambling for model releases & a physical address just in case they had to show them to authorities. What the hell happened with that? Now there are full length FREE movies without one shred of 2257 information. Then there is the "If you can't beat them, join em" mentality going on like crazy. More and more free tubes pop up - a big cluster fuck gang bang of bullshit. I mean it is one thing if the tube gives you credit for a teaser clip with a link back. I am hoping that is where this thing is eventually heading. I just don't understand why they are hoarding all of that traffic- is it just for banner ads? Or are they planning on converting back to more teaser clips (with a pop shot of course) and becoming affiliates of all of the adult programs out there? I know it is like kicking a dead horse, and everybody has probably already brought this up a million times on this board. I haven't posted in here for an eternity, but this is something that I just cannot wrap my head around.

What do you think is the future for tubes in our industry?
Since tubes came out - has your $$ as an affiliate dwindled?

Have a great day!- thanks for listening.

Desirae

ive seen your vids all over the tubes ...

[Kard63]

Thats awesome. Next they should file suit against the other tubes, rapidshare and all sites like it, and newsgroups.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by the Shemp

ive seen your vids all over the tubes ...

well, I hope you enjoy my work, lol When the URL is on them it doesn't sting quite as bad, but there are those who crop it off.

Desirae

[4pleasure]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I think you need to post up some pictures of your toes and soles.

and some breasts too

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by Kard63

Thats awesome. Next they should file suit against the other tubes, rapidshare and all sites like it, and newsgroups.

It seems like a mountain nobody is willing to climb in our business. I mean most of us would rather keep a low profile....but if we were all powerful musicians/producers...if we viewed our work as having artistic value in some way-maybe somehow we can stop it. It isn't like we are some little computer company trying to go up against Microsoft here....it is like napster. Now there is Itunes, why not Iporn???

It is like we are all waiting for the big boys to do something....waiting, then getting disappointed...then feeling defeated...

I saw this happen with thepiratebay.....same thing-people try to fight them, then they give up and "POP!" their site is back up again. I think their site went down for like one whole day-and I have to say that was a really happy day.

Desirae

[DateDoc]

pretty soon we will have the whole 1st page filled with this

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Desirae

It seems like a mountain nobody is willing to climb in our business. I mean most of us would rather keep a low profile....but if we were all powerful musicians/producers...if we viewed our work as having artistic value in some way-maybe somehow we can stop it. It isn't like we are some little computer company trying to go up against Microsoft here....it is like napster. Now there is Itunes, why not Iporn???

It is like we are all waiting for the big boys to do something....waiting, then getting disappointed...then feeling defeated...

I saw this happen with thepiratebay.....same thing-people try to fight them, then they give up and "POP!" their site is back up again. I think their site went down for like one whole day-and I have to say that was a really happy day.

Desirae

this suit will end up like the redtube suit did - case dismissed.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

this suit will end up like the redtube suit did - case dismissed.

If somehow - the guy who handled the Napster case http://pview.findlaw.com/view/2152304_1?channel=LP got involved and could prevent this type of file sharing for porn as well?

Desirae

[Serge Litehead]

tubes are TVs of the future. eventually it will get to the point of streaming channels and next thing you know every Joe and their neighbor will have their own video channel on their myspace/fecebooks broadcasting programmed video and live streams. as always there will be free and paid models. current tubes will have to start adopting too at some point.

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Desirae

If somehow - the guy who handled the Napster case http://pview.findlaw.com/view/2152304_1?channel=LP got involved and could prevent this type of file sharing for porn as well?

Desirae

The only way they can win is if they can prove employees uploaded the videos. I can't see Brazzers saying they did that.

[Black_Widow]

This girl is on top of all news.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by holograph

tubes are TVs of the future. eventually it will get to the point of streaming channels and next thing you know every Joe and their neighbor will have their own video channel on their myspace/fecebooks broadcasting programmed video and live streams. as always there will be free and paid models. current tubes will have to start adopting too at some point.

That would be great if the producers were getting paid for their content again.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by Black_Widow

This girl is on top of all news.

Actually I have had my head in the sand for quite a long time- Sometimes I just get pissed off about it, I mean when something just doesn't seem right....it usually isn't.

[NemesisEnforcer]

Originally Posted by bossku69

Don't forget in California if you win a court case, the state can not force you to pay, you have to collect; unlike other states that can freeze bank accounts and wages (ive been through this in 2005 and 2007 with two different companies).

You don't need the state to collect for you. Once you get the judgement the Sheriff will take care of business for you. I've done it twice.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

The only way they can win is if they can prove employees uploaded the videos. I can't see Brazzers saying they did that.

I think the problem is that the software they are using to allow so called "users" to upload movies will eventually bring them down. The fact that they are allowing such content to be uploaded to their server without supervision is ridiculous, everybody knows this.

[novanuke]

Doing tube myself with some success... I only use affiliates content from sponsors. I didn't allow users to upload. Try to keep myself away from a mess like this. Work on TGP didn't pay... tube do, just another business model

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Desirae

I think the problem is that the software they are using to allow so called "users" to upload movies will eventually bring them down. The fact that they are allowing such content to be uploaded to their server without supervision is ridiculous, everybody knows this.

You obviously do not understand the legal ramifications if they were to supervise, regulate and/or censor the uploaded content and then choose what content was shared.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

You obviously do not understand the legal ramifications if they were to supervise, regulate and/or censor the uploaded content and then choose what content was shared.

Are you saying that they do not accept/view any of the content that is posted on the tube site? That it is all just random stuff posted by amateurs? The bottom line is that it is complete bullshit that someone needs to submit a DMCA take down notice at all. They just rename it something else. How can any producer hope to police the internet like that. They are supervising what is being posted-I do know that they state that they aren't regulating the content....I don't think that proving they do this is the only way to legally take an illegal tube site down. The entire concept of hosting a service that allows anyone to share stolen content is the same thing as napster. They are claiming that they are simply a gateway-that they have nothing to do with it. I have tested this out on a few tube sites-Give it a shot....just try to upload a video and see how quickly it is posted. If it was unregulated it would simply go up-it doesn't. I don't think they give a rats ass about legal ramifications at this point. The reason the adult industry is being treated like they don't matter is fear. I mean if this was music or mainstream hollywood movies there would be more legal teams fighting to protect it. I was looking around for attorneys that would handle something like this & I found that they are involved primarily in the recording, motion picture, television and video game industries. Why not adult?

[XXXMovie4M]

tube sites are eventually going to destroy themselves. they are cutting their movie sizes down to save on bandwidth and recycling all their stolen content.

they aren't rolling in the dough like everyone thinks. you can already see a shift in their model.

this is evident by the post pornhub made here a few months ago asking sponsors to partner up with them so they can get affiliate credit for traffic.

no business model can last when it's based entirely on theft, it's just a matter of time.

i don't think there's a way to stop the theft. if there was, hollywood would have already thought of it. we just have to give tube sites enough rope to hang themselves.

[digitaldivas]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I think you need to post up some pictures of your toes and soles.

she has them in her affiliate program and it is a pretty damn good affiliate program imho. I am glad to have her and her girls on my site.

[Iron Fist]

Originally Posted by fris

first ive heard of the company named brazzers, they must be new

[Voodoo]

Tubes are SOOOO 2009. TGP2 is the latest craze.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by XXXMovie4M

tube sites are eventually going to destroy themselves. they are cutting their movie sizes down to save on bandwidth and recycling all their stolen content.

they aren't rolling in the dough like everyone thinks. you can already see a shift in their model.

this is evident by the post pornhub made here a few months ago asking sponsors to partner up with them so they can get affiliate credit for traffic.

no business model can last when it's based entirely on theft, it's just a matter of time.

i don't think there's a way to stop the theft. if there was, hollywood would have already thought of it. we just have to give tube sites enough rope to hang themselves.

I think there is a lot of truth in this statement. It is very expensive to operate a tube site, even more so if one uses legal content. It seems to be shaking out now with the tubers trying to figure out ways to monetize their investment. In my opinion, the affiliate model will never die out, if it did, most of the large porn houses would collapse. One thing for sure, you cannot give away the cow with the milk. Eventually things will level out, but tubes are here to stay.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by XXXMovie4M

tube sites are eventually going to destroy themselves. they are cutting their movie sizes down to save on bandwidth and recycling all their stolen content.

they aren't rolling in the dough like everyone thinks. you can already see a shift in their model.

this is evident by the post pornhub made here a few months ago asking sponsors to partner up with them so they can get affiliate credit for traffic.

no business model can last when it's based entirely on theft, it's just a matter of time.

i don't think there's a way to stop the theft. if there was, hollywood would have already thought of it. we just have to give tube sites enough rope to hang themselves.

I love this post!

[4pleasure]

Originally Posted by digitaldivas

she has them in her affiliate program and it is a pretty damn good affiliate program imho. I am glad to have her and her girls on my site.

Yes indeed, site looks really nice. great content.

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Desirae

Are you saying that they do not accept/view any of the content that is posted on the tube site? That it is all just random stuff posted by amateurs? The bottom line is that it is complete bullshit that someone needs to submit a DMCA take down notice at all.

Then you need to have the law changed as that is how the law currently works.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by DateDoc

Then you need to have the law changed as that is how the law currently works.

and just because that is the way things CURRENTLY work, doesn't make it right & doesn't mean it will not change. Laws get modified all of the time, especially when there is resistance to them. It is almost as though you are pleased that this law is set up the way it is. Stating that "you need to have the law changed", as though I am supposed to go to the United States Senate and demand that the law be changed. It takes organization-a group with an actual voice to do something like that. Metallica, Modanna, and Michael Jackson had to step up and complain against Napster...and that took some time, I mean music sharing had already been around for a while and people were enjoying it and getting very comfortable with it. Same thing with the free porn. It is just good to see that a few of the larger companies are filing cases.

[XXXMovie4M]

anyone who thinks tube site videos are "user" uploaded is an idiot! if the user can upload a video without it being monitored by the owner then why don't you see regular youtube videos on them or illegal content like CP and beast videos?

porn surfers are lazy and most wouldn't waste time uploading videos to a site. that's why they go to tubes sites, they just want to hit and run. i bet most don't even see the ads anymore. after awhile they just block them out completely.

the vast majority of their videos are uploaded by the tube owner or sponsors trying to capitalize on the traffic.

people still pay for porn and always will. i never thought i'd pay for bottled water but i do because i see the value in it.

i think the "tube" layout is a good one because you can promote many different niches on one site but this illegal crap won't last. legal tube sites will be around for a long time.

illegal tubes are like trying to give away steaks and hoping they buy your tooth picks when they're done. like i said, it's a matter of time!

[Anna_Miller]

Originally Posted by Desirae

Hey there,
One of my affiliates forwarded this article to me. http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538. I was wondering if anyone has already posted this on gfy.

I know that most affiliates do not approve of tubes. They are destroying our industry. I've had to request that many of our movies be taken down. It is a pain in the ass. I remember when 2257 was crazy intense, and everyone was scrambling for model releases & a physical address just in case they had to show them to authorities. What the hell happened with that? Now there are full length FREE movies without one shred of 2257 information. Then there is the "If you can't beat them, join em" mentality going on like crazy. More and more free tubes pop up - a big cluster fuck gang bang of bullshit. I mean it is one thing if the tube gives you credit for a teaser clip with a link back. I am hoping that is where this thing is eventually heading. I just don't understand why they are hoarding all of that traffic- is it just for banner ads? Or are they planning on converting back to more teaser clips (with a pop shot of course) and becoming affiliates of all of the adult programs out there? I know it is like kicking a dead horse, and everybody has probably already brought this up a million times on this board. I haven't posted in here for an eternity, but this is something that I just cannot wrap my head around.

What do you think is the future for tubes in our industry?
Since tubes came out - has your $$ as an affiliate dwindled?

Have a great day!- thanks for listening.

Desirae

Hi Desirae, you can vent to me about tubes anytime!

I think most of the tubes set up their corporations outside the US so they aren't as worried about 2257 (although I had noticed Pornhub was in Seattle).


I don't mind (so much) the tubes that link to you and put limits on the length of vids, since the tubes aren't going away anytime soon. At least that way i can get some sales, and I try to find some brightside in that I don't pay the hosting.

[carlsandoval\]

i'll admit i visit tube sites on a daily basis, but its not like i never gave to the industry i used to have over 500 dvds, last year they all got stolen......and i paid full price for them, not any discount price or anything.
although i think it is extremley wrong to steal other peoples content and give it away for free (sort of like my porn dvds) but even if pink visual wins this 2 things will happen to these tube sites in questio:

1.they will still function

and

2.they will get mass loads of pubblicity making them even more famous.

and lets get our facts straight, i read that they might settle for 3.6 million and i read thats what porntube (or one of the tube sites in the case) makes in 1 week, so what did pink visual conclude??? nothing, exept they made some money back and not even that, i wouldn't be surprised if their legal bills for this case are almost as high as the money they get out of the settlment.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by Anna_Miller

Hi Desirae, you can vent to me about tubes anytime!

I think most of the tubes set up their corporations outside the US so they aren't as worried about 2257 (although I had noticed Pornhub was in Seattle).


I don't mind (so much) the tubes that link to you and put limits on the length of vids, since the tubes aren't going away anytime soon. At least that way i can get some sales, and I try to find some brightside in that I don't pay the hosting.

Thanks, much appreciated. I don't mind the tubes that use promo clips & link back either. It has just gotten so out of control, but I guess desperate people do desperate things.

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by XXXMovie4M

anyone who thinks tube site videos are "user" uploaded is an idiot! if the user can upload a video without it being monitored by the owner then why don't you see regular youtube videos on them or illegal content like CP and beast videos?

porn surfers are lazy and most wouldn't waste time uploading videos to a site. that's why they go to tubes sites, they just want to hit and run. i bet most don't even see the ads anymore. after awhile they just block them out completely.

the vast majority of their videos are uploaded by the tube owner or sponsors trying to capitalize on the traffic.

people still pay for porn and always will. i never thought i'd pay for bottled water but i do because i see the value in it.

i think the "tube" layout is a good one because you can promote many different niches on one site but this illegal crap won't last. legal tube sites will be around for a long time.

illegal tubes are like trying to give away steaks and hoping they buy your tooth picks when they're done. like i said, it's a matter of time!

the same thing about illegal content-if they didn't regulate it, for sure there would be all sorts of crazy stuff on there. I agree with your post! I hope "it's a matter of time!" is sooner rather than later-Have a great night!

[Desirae]

Originally Posted by carlsandoval\

i'll admit i visit tube sites on a daily basis, but its not like i never gave to the industry i used to have over 500 dvds, last year they all got stolen......and i paid full price for them, not any discount price or anything.
although i think it is extremley wrong to steal other peoples content and give it away for free (sort of like my porn dvds) but even if pink visual wins this 2 things will happen to these tube sites in questio:

1.they will still function

and

2.they will get mass loads of pubblicity making them even more famous.

and lets get our facts straight, i read that they might settle for 3.6 million and i read thats what porntube (or one of the tube sites in the case) makes in 1 week, so what did pink visual conclude??? nothing, exept they made some money back and not even that, i wouldn't be surprised if their legal bills for this case are almost as high as the money they get out of the settlment.

Where did you read that they were going to settle? If one really terrific lawyer was willing to stick his neck out and defend the Porn industry & many people in the industry stuck together-that would get a lot of publicity as well. Porntube is making 3.6 million in one week??? That reminds me of that movie Erin Brockovich movie where the PG&E representative shows up at their office and says, "you might want to remember who it is you're dealing with here. PG&E is a twenty-eight-billion-dollar corporation." and the lawyer says: "Twenty-eight billion dollars! I didn't know it was THAT much! WOW!". So they are telling other people how much money they make? No amount of money will make it OK, not even if every tom dick and harry follows suit. I am sorry that you lost your porn collection though, that sucks!

[ez12]

The best way to compete with tube sites is don't compete. How? Get into super niche and create unique content. Tubes are mostly general, so the niche market isn't all that spoiled yet..

[DateDoc]

Originally Posted by Desirae

and just because that is the way things CURRENTLY work, doesn't make it right & doesn't mean it will not change. Laws get modified all of the time, especially when there is resistance to them. It is almost as though you are pleased that this law is set up the way it is. Stating that "you need to have the law changed", as though I am supposed to go to the United States Senate and demand that the law be changed. It takes organization-a group with an actual voice to do something like that. Metallica, Modanna, and Michael Jackson had to step up and complain against Napster...and that took some time, I mean music sharing had already been around for a while and people were enjoying it and getting very comfortable with it. Same thing with the free porn. It is just good to see that a few of the larger companies are filing cases.

You'd be wrong to think I approve of what the big tubes are doing but the fact is that is the law. You seem to just want to bitch about the problem and let taking care of it to someone else. Your attitude is why nothing does get changed. All talk and no action!

[XXXMovie4M]

Originally Posted by ez12

The best way to compete with tube sites is don't compete. How? Get into super niche and create unique content. Tubes are mostly general, so the niche market isn't all that spoiled yet..

that's like the cops telling a store owner who keeps getting robbed to start selling different products to stop the theft.

[SleazyDream]

the way to stop tubes is to force dating and cam sites to stop paying them. That is their main revenue - without that - tubes disappear.

[d-null]

Originally Posted by ez12

The best way to compete with tube sites is don't compete. How? Get into super niche and create unique content. Tubes are mostly general, so the niche market isn't all that spoiled yet..

more and more niche tubes are popping up all the time