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-   -   Flash is dead. Long live HTML5 [VID] (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=951625)

Amputate Your Head 02-03-2010 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808513)
I cannot see anyone here who is saying this assertion is wrong coming up with a reason why something that costs money (flash) will beat something that doesn't (html5).

Anyone care to make a suggestion?

Well, I'll step up to the plate then. Yes, you're wrong.
Photoshop costs money, MS Paint does not. But you're not going to see designers flocking to MS Paint just because it's free.

And by the way, HTML 5 is still nothing more than a concept. Assuming it gets adopted as a standard someday, and factoring in the average time it takes for major changes like that to work its way into full browser integration and then on down to all the actual users, HTML 5 won't be considered any kind of a "standard" for decades. (if ever).

Macromedia created something unique with both Flash & Director (Shockwave), that rocked the world. Adobe bought them out. Flash is capable of so much more than just displaying a video to a user, just as Photoshop is capable of so much more than just cropping thumbnails.

The important part is, Flash doesn't cost the end users anything, only the Flash developers. The developers will use whatever gets the job done the fastest, best, most efficient way, on a platform that reaches the most people. Right now, (for purposes of this discussion) that's Flash, not HTML 5. And when statistics show that IE6 is STILL the most widely used browser out there, it's pretty clear that end users aren't jumping on upgrades until they are forced to.

Flash isn't going anywhere, and Adobe is not shitting any bricks.

:2 cents:

woj 02-03-2010 08:31 AM

pretty neat, but doesn't work with 90% of the browsers, making it useless at this point...

Jakke PNG 02-03-2010 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808513)
Well that shows what happens when you interpret things rather than take what people say at face value.

I am not jumping on anyone, Jakke. I am having a discussion about the inevitability of HTML5 killing flash within 10 years. I find it interesting that people really think it won't.

I cannot see anyone here who is saying this assertion is wrong coming up with a reason why something that costs money (flash) will beat something that doesn't (html5).

Anyone care to make a suggestion?

Within 10 years, maybe. BUT.. from your earlier posts I got the impression you were talking about months, maybe hours.

Anyhow.. anyone care to make a suggestion? Maybe if the browser developers would care to find a harmony and decide how and what codecs they'd support, since w3 doesn't. Some are free, some are not. :)

Also from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5

Quote:

Ian Hickson, editor of the HTML5 specification, expects the specification to reach the W3C Candidate Recommendation stage during 2012, and W3C Recommendation in the year 2022 or later.[9] However, many parts of the specification are stable and may be implemented in products:
:)

Also read worthy: http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2010/...-html-5-video/

</end being an asshole>

Gonna go play hockey. Have fun arguing. I'll join back up later.

Ravage 02-03-2010 08:45 AM

Adobe makes money off
a) A visual IDE for Flash development - command line compilation is now free.
b) Server architectures for complex callback/relationships with served media.

Both of these things (especially (a)) will be needed for html5 to 'replace' flash, and who do you think is best positioned to have market ready tools for development in these spaces. Actionscript is after all just a flavour of ECMA (as is javascript). Adapting their tools to output to html5 apps would not be a huge undertaking.

If you don't think Adobe is already working on this, then you're an arse.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
Well, I'll step up to the plate then. Yes, you're wrong. Photoshop costs money, MS Paint does not. But you're not going to see designers flocking to MS Paint just because it's free.

Oh brilliant. Compare something shit to something good. :)

Equally, Kobe beef is better than macdonalds.

The key, that you usefully missed, is that both flash/html5 are/will be as good as the same in terms of DELIVERING VIDEO.

So now why would someone pay for something they could get for free?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
And by the way, HTML 5 is still nothing more than a concept. Assuming it gets adopted as a standard someday, and factoring in the average time it takes for major changes like that to work its way into full browser integration and then on down to all the actual users, HTML 5 won't be considered any kind of a "standard" for decades. (if ever).

2022 they reckon. And getting W3C this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
Macromedia created something unique with both Flash & Director (Shockwave), that rocked the world. Adobe bought them out. Flash is capable of so much more than just displaying a video to a user, just as Photoshop is capable of so much more than just cropping thumbnails.

Brilliant. Who denies that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
The important part is, Flash doesn't cost the end users anything, only the Flash developers.

Again, no one is denying that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
The developers will use whatever gets the job done the fastest, best, most efficient way, on a platform that reaches the most people. Right now, (for purposes of this discussion) that's Flash, not HTML 5.

Yes it is. Again, no one appears to be denying that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
And when statistics show that IE6 is STILL the most widely used browser out there, it's pretty clear that end users aren't jumping on upgrades until they are forced to.

a) no it isn't http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
b) who is saying end users jump on upgrades?

DamianJ 02-03-2010 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakke PNG (Post 16808624)
Within 10 years, maybe. BUT.. from your earlier posts I got the impression you were talking about months, maybe hours.

As I said, where did I suggest that? I didn't, did I?

I mean, I am sorry you assumed I said things I didn't, and you are now arguing against YOUR supposition as opposed to anything I actually said. :)

Hope hockey is fun.

Jakke PNG 02-03-2010 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808642)
The key, that you usefully missed, is that both flash/html5 are/will be as good as the same in terms of DELIVERING VIDEO.

They are? Maybe if browsers would support ALL codecs, which won't happen. Licensing fees. Mozilla doesn't like NON-opensource stuff, where as apple and Google seem to.

..and hockey will be fun, until I hurt myself.

Amputate Your Head 02-03-2010 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808642)
Oh brilliant. Compare something shit to something good. :)

So, what is it you want? I've given you my opinion, and the fact that Flash is used for more than just delivering end-user video is enough of a reason for developers who need it to continue paying for it. You can deliver video to your users right now without Flash or HTML5. You don't NEED either one.

I guess I'm not sure what your vantage point is on this. Are you just looking to save a buck by not purchasing Flash? That's not a good enough reason or argument to make claims of 'conceptual' HTML 5 killing off a staple of designer / developer tools that's been in play for decades.

Amputate Your Head 02-03-2010 09:16 AM

DamienJ,

I guess, let me put this another way...
We can both agree that Flash is infinitely more advanced & better than Compuserve's old ass GIF in terms of banner design. Yet even as vastly superior as Flash is in every way and then some in that regard, the GIF format lives on to this day. So if HTML 5 is being viewed as a "Flash Killer" based solely on end user video delivery, do you honestly believe Adobe is just going to say, "Well, that's it then. Let's terminate Flash."? Or that developers & designers are going to stop using it?

When you speak of something as a Flash Killer, it's going to have to pack more of a punch than just saving a buck on video delivery. It's going to have to be a holographic tactile slut crawling out of the screen and sucking some dick.

MetaMan 02-03-2010 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16807005)
Flash is dead. Long live HTML5 [VID]

In case you haven't seen this:

http://jilion.com/sublime/video

original post

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808513)
I am not jumping on anyone, Jakke. I am having a discussion about the inevitability of HTML5 killing flash within 10 years. I find it interesting that people really think it won't.

backtrack post 80 posts in when you realize what you said is false
when something is "dead" how can it be alive for another 10 years?

PS get off apples balls you just saw the iPad vid and got a boner.
--------

you = full of shit

weekly 02-03-2010 09:24 AM

Quote:

Equally, Kobe beef is better than macdonalds.
And is the problem with your life and death argument and why you are defending and back peddling so rapidly. Macdonalds does not sell Kobe beef.

Babaganoosh 02-03-2010 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808642)
a) no it isn't http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
b) who is saying end users jump on upgrades?

The following is taken from the URL you posted:

"W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers.

These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users.

Anyway, our data, collected from W3Schools' log-files, over a five year period, clearly shows the long and medium-term trends."

Every single one of my sites logs shows that IE6 is the most popular browser.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808685)
So, what is it you want?

I wanted to point out your paint/photoshop analogy wasn't really very accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808685)
I guess I'm not sure what your vantage point is on this.

It's just Flash isn't all that, and things change. Not sure why everyone is so busy sucking Adobe's cock?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808685)
Are you just looking to save a buck by not purchasing Flash?

No, I do marketing. I don't buy any Flash licences.

I just think it's FASCINATING how so many people have run into this thread so oddly aggressively. Like I was saying America isn't very good!

The only point I was really making is that that link had a really nice clip of video.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808776)
When you speak of something as a Flash Killer, it's going to have to pack more of a punch than just saving a buck on video delivery. It's going to have to be a holographic tactile slut crawling out of the screen and sucking some dick.

Hehe! Brilliant post!

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 16808790)
original post



backtrack post 80 posts in when you realize what you said is false
when something is "dead" how can it be alive for another 10 years?

Oh, is THAT what you got so annoyed about. That's a thing people say in monarchies and have done since 1272. The King is dead, long live the king. It's a phrase, or saying.

Headlines are meant to get people's attention.

Worked.

Like the hand egg one.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh (Post 16808799)
Every single one of my sites logs shows that IE6 is the most popular browser.

Google just announced it was dropping support of ie6.

weekly 02-03-2010 10:10 AM

Quote:

I just think it's FASCINATING how so many people have run into this thread so oddly aggressively. Like I was saying America isn't very good!
Considering the aggressive nature of the topic you posted, I am not sure why you are surprised.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly (Post 16808796)
Macdonalds does not sell Kobe beef.

Another brilliant contribution, refund. You keep on rocking, girl.

Love your work

x

weekly 02-03-2010 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808960)
Another brilliant contribution, refund. You keep on rocking, girl.

Love your work

x

Yeah I know you do sweety, maybe cause its always been legal. Don't make me mention that nasty illegal shit you sold for years. Now be a good boy and get back on message. I really hate to see people blow holes in their feet. And you were being so well behaved. So don't be raising shit all over again. Your veneer is very, very thin. And I can see you have lit your own fuse one more time.

Amputate Your Head 02-03-2010 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808926)
I just think it's FASCINATING how so many people have run into this thread so oddly aggressively.

I apologize if my comments appeared aggressive, that wasn't my intent.

I agree, things change all the time, and that's usually good. But I've heard this HTML 5 battle cry a hundred times all over the Internet, and it's never put into the perspective of reality.

I was doing Flash interface design all the way back in 1997, and trying to get clients to understand the merits of Flash was like beating my head against a brick wall while simultaneously stabbing myself in the eye with a fork.

Here we are 13 years later and everyone finally 'gets it'. Flash isn't the big scary unknown mystery tech they all thought it was. But that had a lot to do with merely overcoming the plugin 'scariness' factor. With HTML 5 we're talking about fully supportive browsers, agreement between collaborators, and the ever growing end-user apathy towards upgrading anything. Most users can't manage to keep spyware off their systems, let alone get themselves off IE6.

So anyway, I just think you're being overly optimistic about HTML 5 replacing Flash any time soon. (and again, if ever). And from reality's perspective, if your goal is to deliver to as many of your users as possible, then of course you have to use the tech that will accomplish that.

That's all.

:2 cents:

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808995)
I apologize if my comments appeared aggressive, that wasn't my intent.

I agree, things change all the time, and that's usually good. But I've heard this HTML 5 battle cry a hundred times all over the Internet, and it's never put into the perspective of reality.

I was doing Flash interface design all the way back in 1997, and trying to get clients to understand the merits of Flash was like beating my head against a brick wall while simultaneously stabbing myself in the eye with a fork.

Here we are 13 years later and everyone finally 'gets it'. Flash isn't the big scary unknown mystery tech they all thought it was. But that had a lot to do with merely overcoming the plugin 'scariness' factor. With HTML 5 we're talking about fully supportive browsers, agreement between collaborators, and the ever growing end-user apathy towards upgrading anything. Most users can't manage to keep spyware off their systems, let alone get themselves off IE6.

So anyway, I just think you're being overly optimistic about HTML 5 replacing Flash any time soon. (and again, if ever). And from reality's perspective, if your goal is to deliver to as many of your users as possible, then of course you have to use the tech that will accomplish that.

That's all.

:2 cents:

Absolutely right. You beat me by 3 years. I was involved in flash sites in 2000.

However, I bet Real Player weren't that worried when Flash came out. :)

Still, the video looked purdy.

SmokeyTheBear 02-03-2010 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808650)
As I said, where did I suggest that? I didn't, did I? .

in the thread title :2 cents:

"flash is dead"

if i started a thread that said "george bush is dead" would you assume i meant bush is dead now or bush will eventually die someday ?

weekly 02-03-2010 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeythebear (Post 16809028)
in the thread title :2 cents:

"flash is dead"

if i started a thread that said "george bush is dead" would you assume i meant bush is dead now or bush will eventually die someday ?

lol.....very succinct

DamianJ 02-03-2010 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear (Post 16809028)
in the thread title :2 cents:

"flash is dead"

if i started a thread that said "george bush is dead" would you assume i meant bush is dead now or bush will eventually die someday ?

I suppose that if someone just read the thread title and not the rest of my post where I simply link to a pretty video clip, then maybe people could get confused about my 'the king is dead long live the king' reference. Conceeded.

weekly 02-03-2010 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16809098)
I suppose that if someone just read the thread title and not the rest of my post where I simply link to a pretty video clip, then maybe people could get confused about my 'the king is dead long live the king' reference. Conceeded.

It was not a long live the king reference. Far from it. Closer to long live the pretender.

MetaMan 02-03-2010 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 16808945)
Oh, is THAT what you got so annoyed about. That's a thing people say in monarchies and have done since 1272. The King is dead, long live the king. It's a phrase, or saying.

Headlines are meant to get people's attention.

Worked.

Like the hand egg one.

im not annoyed at that, it just isnt that hard to say anything about 10 years from now. a decade long call is kind of pointless in such a rapid changing world.

maybe wont be called flash in 10 years. who knows? HTML5 may not even exist in 10 years. so how does your call matter then?

i am just annoyed because you are only mentioning this because of the recent apple news where they are not using flash.

DamianJ 02-03-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 16809118)
i am just annoyed because you are only mentioning this because of the recent apple news where they are not using flash.

No, I mentioned it cos I thought the video in the link looked pretty darn cool.

Fuck an iPad. I don't want one. Not cos of Flash, but because of the stupid aspect ratio.

rev2 with 16:9 and OLED might tempt me though.

StaceyJo 02-03-2010 11:36 AM

Thanks but, browser not supported.

2MuchMark 02-03-2010 11:46 AM

Nice video - it worked well for me on Safari (didn't try other browsers). Regardless of which is better, HTML5 is definitely something to watch.

NTSS 02-03-2010 12:49 PM

Very nice!

NetHorse 02-03-2010 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16807041)
HTML 5 is not going to kill or replace Flash any time soon.
Get used to it.

:2 cents:

:2 cents::2 cents:

I guess you can incorporate it now and have about 20% of users able to see your content.

redwhiteandblue 02-03-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head (Post 16808566)
And when statistics show that IE6 is STILL the most widely used browser out there,

What statistics are those? Not mine.

AdultSoftwareSolutions 02-03-2010 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanuk (Post 16807329)
Adobe CTO Kevin Lynch Defends Flash, Warns HTML5 Will Throw The Web "Back To The Dark Ages Of Video"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020201812.html

Of course he'd say that. It's in his interest.

Unfortunately HTML 5 video is not widely support and there is still some debate about what codec to use. H.264 has some serious licensing issues for something that is supposed to be a standard and the open source codecs don't really compete.

Google acquired On2 a while back and there is some speculation that they will open up VP8. I'm hoping that will be the case.

Amputate Your Head 02-03-2010 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue (Post 16809701)
What statistics are those? Not mine.

Sorry, IE6 has slipped in the last month down to 20%, just under IE8. But two months ago 6 was still on top. Browser Version Market Share

Still, that is pretty damn significant numbers when we're talking about replacing Flash with HTML 5.

weekly 02-03-2010 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdultSoftwareSolutions (Post 16809718)
Of course he'd say that. It's in his interest.

Unfortunately HTML 5 video is not widely support and there is still some debate about what codec to use. H.264 has some serious licensing issues for something that is supposed to be a standard and the open source codecs don't really compete.

Google acquired On2 a while back and there is some speculation that they will open up VP8. I'm hoping that will be the case.

I am getting sick to death of this standards debate. H.264 works fine. Any standard is better than no standard.

Loch 02-03-2010 10:27 PM

Browser not supported and i have them ALL, great promo LOL

2012 02-03-2010 10:46 PM

r.i.p flash

rock-reed 02-04-2010 12:40 AM

Worked on my Chrome and I was able to move around the video very fast.

Nice.

Eric 02-04-2010 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekly (Post 16808985)
Yeah I know you do sweety, maybe cause its always been legal. Don't make me mention that nasty illegal shit you sold for years. Now be a good boy and get back on message. I really hate to see people blow holes in their feet. And you were being so well behaved. So don't be raising shit all over again. Your veneer is very, very thin. And I can see you have lit your own fuse one more time.

Post proof, a retraction, or ask for this to be removed. Alluding to the fact that someone sold something illegal with out proof is grounds for banning.

You have 1 hour!

Amputate Your Head 02-04-2010 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 16813360)
Post proof, a retraction, or ask for this to be removed. Alluding to the fact that someone sold something illegal with out proof is grounds for banning.

You have 1 hour!

holy crap!

Eric has the hammer cocked!

(that is a pretty harsh accusation though)


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