that is just insaine. I'll take the job to send out 200 checks and get paid $3,000 to do it. lol. vacations, parties lmao.

If you don't do checks you still need said employee to send wires or epass, to make the address changes or bank changes, people inquiring about payments, etc etc. The only difference with checks is that the information is sent to a printer and checks are printed and enevlopes stuffed opposed to the inforamtion being sent to a bank or epass, and that right there will not cost you an "extra" $3,000 a month employee. :warning:warning per everyone's argument here and yours, you still going to need that employee anyway no matter how you make payments.

ATM does not charge me if it is my bank. If I asked another program to send me money that YOU owed me, I would expect there to be a charge.

ATM is a convenience. If I go inside any bank there is no charge to get my money.

If the bank charge me a fee for every possible way to get my money out of it, and I had no choice but to pay $$ everytime I wanted my money then your anology would be accurate.

Fuck. Its a wonder how McDonalds or any other major corporation with thousands of employees manage to stay in business with providing their employees free checks. Fucking dumbasses will all go bankrupt this year.

</sarcasm off>

Bottom line is an affiliate is a business partner.

These companies are doing B2B transactions with an affiliate just like they do with a hosting company. I provide you with a service, traffic. A hosting company provides you with a service, bandwidth.

Do you charge the hosting company a $5 check fee when you go to pay your bill with them?

Do I care if you have 10 affiliates or 10,000 affiliates and you need to hire employee, company to do checks, what ever. If you start doing business with several hosting companies are you going to try to justify to them adding a $5 fee to each payment because you have to write a lot of checks now.

So the only thing anyone here can say is " we have fees too". It's called the cost of running a business and normal opperating expenses, over head etc... Every business has them.

its like not tipping

I think the cross sells or member upsells which we get no part of should be more than enough to cover the check or epass fees.

EXACTLY. Should affiliates charge sponsors for hosting fees then? If your going to charge $8 to send a check, why not charge a $100 setup fee to become an affiliate to offset the cost of sending them a welcome email :1orglaugh

It makes sense to charge for checks, it's very expensive and time consuming to maintain the time machine to go back to 1995 when checks were commonplace. The time machine's also useful if you need to send a fax...

there are a ton of ways that affiliate programs make money off of the traffic the affiliates send, and the affiliates are not paid for it. cross sales, upsells in members area, selling our information, all of the accounts that don't meet a min payout, brading in general, etc... most of that is factured into how much they can pay us, if they do 10 cross sales you would hope that they would pay you a pretty high PPS amount.

All of their other expenses like content, bandwidth, processing, etc.. is factored into how much they pay you pps or revshare. Why not factor in the check, epass or whatever into their overhead like everything else.

It's just a matter of time until you see this.

Affiliate makes $100 from (2) $50 PPS sales. Check is cut. Affiliate recieves check and sees:
- $10 check printing fee
- $ 5 merchant processing fee
- $10 bandwidth surcharge
- $ 5 statement fee
etc...

you owe us $20, please send your payment to________

What a joke, really ....
Only in adult marketing, ... !




Most adult marketers will fail in the real world.
Providers or slingers, most will fail.

Fiddy charges for printed/mailed checks! :/

We still no not charge for checks, charge $2 for Epassporte, charge for wires (amount varies between domestic & international)....

The reason we do not change a couple of bucks for check payments is we want to offer affiliates one method of payment with no fee attached. If they want their money faster then we have options however there is a small fee attached.

:1orglaugh

eh this is BS.. big mainstream companies dont charge to send checks..

Take example hydra/neverblue.. they have over 100k affiliates, yet they dont charge for checks.. its called business cost..

we dont have to pay for your accounting department.. if somehow sending checks is costing you too much money, then redo your numbers, reduce payout per signup, etc... anyway if companies with 100k+ affiliates can send all of them checks WITHOUT charging, so can all you adult companies with less than 10% of the affiliates they have

The bigger question is an this is a long time standing question

Who is the customer

the affiliate selling his traffic to the program

or the program buying the traffic from the affiliate

Maybe you should also consider the location of the company. For example if we send out a check to the USA our bank charges us 20+ EUR for it - just because next to no one uses checks here anymore - a wire transfer costs "only" 10-12 EUR to the USA.

Anyway we're not charging a payout fee at the Yoogirls affiliate program - it's simply an investment into the business....

But i can totally understand programs (exspecially small ones) charging at least the actual cost of the check/payment - if not calculating exactly what each payout costs them (employee, bank, etc.)

Once we get rolling, we will only be charging for wire transfers. ePassporte transfers are on us --- meaning FREE for Webmasters. :thumbsup

I don't think you are getting the point Will is trying to make. He is not arguing YOUR expense of sending out checks, he is just arguing the point it is YOUR cost and not a business expense that should be passed on.

I love threads like this.

amen to that. thanks.

thats a good question, who is the customer. Not sure if that matters from a stand point of charging people to receive a payment or not...

I had to think about this one for a couple minutes. I would think in all cases the customer is the person who is doing the paying. If you are paying for a service then you are the customer. The person paying the hosting company for bandwidth is the customer. In your example I would say the program is the customer, they are paying for a service.

However, I see the affiliate's relationship as more of a B2B transaction. Not employee/owner or company/customer.

Which ever way you look at it, no party should be charging the other party a transaction fee to send them the money they are owed UNLESS they provide multiple options for payment that are a convenience so they can receive payment fast, such as a wire. There should always be at least 1 "free" way for them to get paid. Services were provided, payment in full should be made. Checks, in the US at least are very inexpensive to send to other people in the US. If you are sending international and it is very expensive for you to send checks then I completely understand not offering that option or putting a fee on it. However you should be able to offer another option that is cheaper for you such as epassporte that you do not charge the other party a fee to receive the money they are owed.

I have heard this question brought up hundreds of times with various companies

I agree its part of your business model set up your options and give a free option to get your money! even if it means waiting for a higher payout to be achieved


We don't charge to get a check at MIP but we do for epassport as it cost us a significant amount to use this option from wiring into epass to sending funds

Must only be in this industry... if you work for a big company in the REAL world they don't charge you for your cheque at the end of the week... or none that I worked for did... and guess what, they have the accounting, the banks fees etc so your reasoning is flawed and nothing more then a rip off!!!

Does anyone have an accountant that gets these fees back?

Checks all around are fucking retarded. I get a check from their client.. I drive to their bank.. I wait in line.. I deal with their foreign speaking employees.. Oh wait I don't have an account at your shitty bank.. 5 dollar fee?? go fuck yourself

So then you won't mind chipping in a few bucks for the programs hosting? Or how about going in on 1/2 of the bandwidth that YOUR customer uses once he joins the site? That is fair. I mean, if it's a partnership, that's how it should really work.

Or does the partnership only go one way? (rhetorical question)

What percent does Never Blue pay their affiliates? I've never heard of them but I'm going to guess it's not 50% or higher. Some programs in adult pay a high PPS or some up to 80% revshare AND you want them to eat the cost of getting a check or epass to you? Come on.

If affiliates wanted to take a lower percentage, I'm sure there would be no issues getting paid for free. But you guys want more, more, more and more, yet complain over $2 when it comes time to pay you. Madness.

Adult and mainstream affiliate programs do not pay the same percentages.

Yes it does go one way after the sale because the affiliate has no control over product quality or price determination. Why should the affiliate be a partner and shoulder partial costs with no absolute decision input?

And do those big companies in the "real world" give you 50% or more of the sale you make for them? Fuck no they don't.

No they don't but compensation is agreed upon at the start so there is no discrepancy when it comes time to get paid for the work you do. Let's be honest. Why do companies pay out 50%? Because without that option, they would not make as much money as affiliates would go elsewhere. Its a fucking business that is hardly run anything resembling a legit business. If your biz is so hard up you have to nickle and dime those that make you money for them to get paid, your biz is worse than you thought.

Do these same companies charge talent a service fee for getting paid? NO. Why? Talent would tell them to go fuck themselves. But don't forget, "real world" companies also pay into social security and medicaid taxes as well as pay my federal taxes for me.

Without affiliates, programs would simply drop as many of those owners could not survive, much less drum up the traffic needed for their sales. Affiliates are gold. Treat them as such.

If the entire industry said tomorrow that rates are dropped to 30% and no more PPS, most affiliates would keep sending traffic. Mainstream does it and adult was foolish for ever offering so much. Who ever in this business thought of paying that much needs to have their nuts cut off. That was where it all went wrong.

Affiliates know when they sign up to a program what the fees are. If they don't like them, they can pass and send their traffic somewhere else, the same as you can pass on the credit card offer your bank gives you if you do not like the current rate they give you. It's ALL up to you, the affiliate. However, if you choose to promote company X, then don't complain about the rates they charge you.

I agree, if you RELY on these little fees to make a living, you're fucked. Though I understand why it's done and it makes sense so long as it is a fair fee.

"Only in adult" applies to every aspect of our fucked up business. Adult does everything wrong and backwards. It is what it is and it always will be that way.

Every affiliate here has a choice. Fuck or walk. Play by the rules or go flip burgers. But if they choose to play the game, they need to play by the rules set by the very programs they send their traffic to. If they don't like it, try mainstream or hit Burger King.

I could care less about a $2 fee when getting paid by a program. That's the cost of doing business with them, regardless if it's the "right" or "smart" thing to do.

Go where? Mainstream or McDonalds?


Agreed, but it's always been that way and it always will.

mainstream pays a shit load more... $30-45 PPS for free trial..

the advertiser pays around $45, neverblue will pay $40 for it.. basically they dock 10%, and pay 90%. LOL

Platinum Bucks/Free Pass Bucks/Adult Rental Cash does not charge when we send checks.

list of sponsors that do not charge for checks:

- satan cash.
- curious cash.

feel free to add more.

Nothing wrong with that at all imo.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with making the min payout on checks (resonable) $100 - $200 min to send. If someone wanted to be paid out for $20 then yeah make them pay $2 or whatever. But I don't think you should make them hit a $500 payout to receive the check without fee.

I actually came across 1 company, don't remember who, that was set up exactly the way described above. If you wanted to wait till you hit a $200 payout it was free to send, if you wanted to be paid each week, if it was less than $200 (ie $20) then there was a fee. You could pay the fee or wait a little longer till you reached the min payout and get it with out fees.

why even bother arguing with a nick of a man pretending to be a woman pretending to work in adult.

fuck your mom lately? How is she doing?

No not at all, I will help pay part of your hosting bill. Let me know what address I should send my advertising bill to so you can help me with that too. :disgust


If you don't already know, your expenses (should) be calculated into your business plan. Your hosting is your business expense. Your content is your business expense. My hosting is my business expense, my advertising is my business expense.

Based off of what you pay me for my traffic, my revenue, I calculate that against my cost and that is my profit margin.

When you do a business plan, something that a lot of you probably have never done, you figure out what all of your expenses will cost you to opperate, then you figure how much profit you are satisfied with, and the difference left over is what you are going to allocate to traffic/sales via an affilaite program. If you don't want to pay affiliate then don't have an affiliate program, do all of your traffic in house then you can charge yourself check fees and all that other shit.

There are no "fair" fees when someone is forced to be charged a fee to collect a payment from you. Do you think your hosting company would be happy if you deducted $5 from their payment each month because it cost you to send them a payment? Affiliates provide you a service, traffic and sales. A hosting company provides you with a service, bandwidth.

The entire adult industry would never get together and drop PPS or revshare %. Never. Because some companies have more expenses than others. Some are satified making an "XXXX" profit margin while others are fine with "XXX". Payouts are one of the most important factors of why an affiliate might chose one company over another. If a company can afford it they will always try to pay a little more than the next guy because they want volume and will make more by paying more and making a smaller margin but overall more profit.

The $2 fee isn't going to break my piggy bank either. I started this thread pointing out that I think it is retarded for a company to do so and gives at least some people a really bad perception of that company. I was wondering if anyone would have an legit reasons to why they do this, so far there is none. Forcing people to pay a fee in order to be paid for services rendered, is simply fucking stupid. Whether it is a $2 fee, $10 fee, or $100 fee.

Quoted for fucking truth. Half of these guys have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I will bet everything I will ever own that 75% of these guys do not have any business plan whatsoever in writing much less can actually define what a business plan is. Shit most of them have no idea what an executive summary is. Most of them have no fucking clue how to do a proper risk analysis or even a simple request for proposal. To those 75%, business is slapping shit up on page with a link to a join button.

Other areas that programs fail to consider for their affiliates is what about the programs that do not do shit about piracy? What sense does it make for me as an affiliate to pimp your shit if I can find it all over torrents and newsgroups? Hard to sell snow to Eskimo at a premium rate when all they have to do is walk outside and get it for free. Some programs even look at it as "free branding" which many affiliates will end up losing the sale on later type-ins. Many times piracy has been discussed here and moving to streaming only was proposed only to be met with "too expensive" bullshit.

Fuck it. From this point forward, if you don't protect your shit or the access to it, you deserve to get ripped and pirated. And until the entire industry moves to streaming and protecting their content, there will be more than enough free porn on the tubes, torrents, newsgroups, etc... that no one will ever have to buy it again.