this thread is getting a little bit more interesting.

12clicks, what is your position with all of these allegations of fraud relating to undisclosed xsales slash hidden sales?

Maybe that is why he is laying off? The position of immediately refunding every surfer that is knowledgable enough to contact the site owner on umpteen charges is no longer available because the site owner is no longer screwing the piss out of surfers...

nah... i doubt it.

What are you talking about? Ron doesn't do any of that stuff. He does regular old x-sells. The talk of hidden x-sells was off topic talk that has nothing to do with him.

You just dont understand bottom runger! Its all about wealth, success and totally awesome shirts!

Youre just too broke and tattered to understand the methods of success.

whatdidyousay? excusemenowidontunderstand?

You didn't just say good 'ol regular x-sells did you?

I just went to one of his sites.

nastypinkteens... filled out info. on the first page and got to the second. I actually saw no x-sales on either page.

So, I suppose the good 'ol x-sales are gone... huh?

Hey x-sells have been around since the beginning. But I'm not gonna get in that argument again with people. But just a hint...there are a LOT of programs out there that make the massive majority of their money from x-sells. 12clicks isn't even close to being at that level of it.

Nothing wrong with it...it's just a different and much more lucrative way to make a LOT of money.

Me? I enjoy the actual porn business too much to get into the numbers crunching game of x-sells to any extent.

For instance, about a month ago I was at Guitar Center here in Vegas and was speaking to the owner of a VERY big program that is promoted by a lot of people right here on GFY. He asked me how piracy was affecting biz. I told him the steps I had taken to stop it.

He replied that he was glad that kinda shit didn't concern him. He makes 7 figures every month on x-sells. Keep in mind...this program has about a hundred damn websites! I stopped counting them after 55 lol

He actually told me that he hadn't even LOOKED at his shit in months! And that he didn't give a fuck about any of it because the whole thing was about x-sells.

Not saying that's good or bad...just sayin'

He basically isn't even in the porn biz anymore pretty much. Yet he owns all those sites and a huge affiliate program. Wild isn't it?

Anyway, I don't really care what you think or don't think about x-sells. The fact is they are an accepted form of business that has been around since forever. If you've ever promoted paysites...then chances are you promoted x-sells and didn't even know it. Just the way it is.

DeeJ is pretty cool IMHO

I don't understand your mentality. search my name, I make my own money.

What is clear is that banging cards the legal way, or the illegal way, will certainly hurt the way CC's are processed.

Could I bang my surfer's, ... of course I could. I understand making money but what YOU do NOT understand is that I made it legit... think about that for a little

I'm not quite sure what you're even saying. And I don't care. I don't want to argue about it. Arguing about legit x-sells is like arguing over the sky being blue. It's the way it is. So you think about that for a little. "banging" lol Tell it to the airlines, hosting companies, your phone company, your own bank... We all get x-sold everyday in every way. They just don't call it "x-sell" But whatever. I'm just trying to say what is real and not real. And Ron may enjoy acting out on GFY, but he certainly doesn't do anything wrong or illegit. And neither do the 90% of the programs that run x-sells.

The 10% who don't are mostly guys who don't understand how to do it, or don't have enough volume to be able to do it, or they never heard of it. Remember this...if a person is x-sold, all they have to do is cancel and ask for their money back or do a chargeback.

But the numbers don't lie. Most of them not only never want their money back...but they rebill for a long time. The last x-sell deal I did ended in Feb. of 2008. I did mine in a revshare deal...everybody else just buys them, but I wanted to make sure there was no funny business going on.

So my deal was small potatoes. Made about 30 grand a month. And guess what? I'm STILL getting rebills off of those x-sells! Theories and assumptions are nice, but numbers don't lie.

ok... so here are my questions:

1) do you work for 12 clicks?
2) are 12 clicks x-sales cleaned up or do you get that extra something special "later" after your CC is entered?
3) if a person is X-sold and they didn't even know it, they would likely think they just got ripped off. Do you think making people feel they have been ripped off makes business sense?
4) I just went through 2 screens on 12 clicks site prior to actually entering a CC, there was no xsale on any pages. Does that make me a dumb surfer if indeed x-sales are going on after that?

So my final question is.... are there X-sales going on after those two pages when you enter your CC info... 12 clicks?

1.No, neither he nor anyone else in this business can pay me as much as I already make. And yes, that is legitimately make since you insinuated that perhaps I don't make my money the old fashioned way in your earlier post. Hell, now that James Brown is gone...I'm the hardest working man in show business baby! :1orglaugh

2. I have never done any b2b with 12clicks, but I can tell you that he is the first guy ever to be cleared by CC Bill officially to do x-sells if that means anything to you.

3. If the x-sell is done correctly they DO know it. People aren't stupid like you assume. First off IF the x-sell is legit...they get an email informing them that they have a trial membership (usually a dollar and usually for 3 days). They then have the option to cancel it before it rebills. Since 100% of people on the internet already have been in contact with x-sells in mainstream products they have bought...then I would think it to be a bit ludicrous to assume they suddenly are amazed that a x-sell may have happened to them. But yes, there are a percentage of actual dumb people out there who might. That's why God invented the CREDIT. Or if the member gets pissed off...the CHARGEBACK. Pretty simple stuff here, but if you insist on me detailing it out for you, there it is.

4. Who said 12clicks was selling x-sells? Maybe he's just buying them in bulk. That's what most companies do. Though from our conversation I'm thinking that you don't have any knowledge about this topic to understand how it works. No big deal. But anyway, if Ron is buying x-sells and not selling them then of course he doesn't have any on his sign up page. I don't want to be demeaning to you, because I think you're a good guy, but this is pretty simple stuff to understand isn't it?

I am as smart as you think I am.

I would like to know how to get ripped off... the reason being I would like to get ripped off later... ya know ;)

Damn man...either you're speaking in code to me, or I'm still fucked up from drinking too much last night! :1orglaugh

I can tell you this. At least once a week I turn down offers to buy x-sells. Not for any moral reasons. But because it can be risky if a company were to sell you hidden x-sells or even worse...cancel page x-sells. That is some crooked shit there.

But just saying... I get offers to buy up to 1000 x-sells a day at $17 a pop. Those are trial memberships. 90% of them WILL convert. And then 20 to 40% of those WILL rebill. It's a fast way to make millions of dollars. And no, I'm not one of those guys who has multiple merchant accounts. I only have one. So I can't risk losing my one account and I obviously can't shuffle merchant accounts since I only have one.

But as I told you earlier, I did do a little revshare one in 07 and the beginning of 08. Since I was VERY careful it was only about 20 to 30 x-sells a day. But it still made money, and it still makes money rebilling to this very day. Faithful members of claudia-marie.com who interact with her via email and live cam shows. Those people didn't get "ripped off", they got a good deal, discovered a site that they now love and everybody wins.

Now on the buying of x-sells...yes, you would be making good money.

BUT, you have to be able to get several merchant accounts and you have to have a programmer smart enough to script the whole thing together and make sure that no merchant account gets overloaded. AND you have to have tremendous customer support to stop chargebacks.

But you would literally have 30,000 members in one months time. You would spend $510,000 And if my numbers hold true (90%) and you charge $29.99 per membership plus a dollar for the trial you would gross $836,730 in the first month for a profit of $326,730

Then if only 30% rebill the next month you just netted $242,919 off the first month along with a nice fresh $326,730 net from your new x-sells in the new month.

Now rinse and repeat for 10 years or so and you start to get the idea of the money involved. Again, not defending it or attacking it. Just stating the facts. It's a numbers game.

As I said before, I love the porn business too much to get involved in the day to day complexities of going large on x-sells. But it is damn profitable. And in 30 years when I'm ready to retire...IF I retire I should say, I'll probably spend the last year doing exactly that to make myself a big nest egg for my family.

funny how none of 12clicks sites disclose how much their free trials rebill as.

"NOTE: All trials and monthly memberships will recur at the monthly price (USD) until cancelled."

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Criminal...g-gr-fa627.htm

Why must you post incessantly long responses in multiple threads? I don't want to hear about your old school knowledge and who you know and what you have done. I also don't want to see you jump in every thread that you feel gives you the chance to post inane responses and lengthy retorts to put people to sleep.

Congrats, you have been around a long time. Now you feel is your chance to use the board to your advantage. Great! Do it. Use it. But please stop coming across as some holier than thou that thinks because they have been around has the right to portray what is right and wrong.

A message board join date and post count means nothing. The same as how many names you can mention and who you have been associated with.

Just give it a rest already.

well all I can Say happy new year to all, welcome 2010

I still know a few, we meet regulary on Facebook! :)

Are you on FB, Ron?

If I find you, I'll sign you for Obama Fanclub!
:)

not trolling anyone, but killing time with the smile at the airport after the flight delay of 11 hours.

5 hours till a new year!

Maybe 12 clicks could join in and spew some more 2009 banter?

Holy fuck, how is that legal?

100 ...,.,.,. :)

This thread has a valid point, I'm sure...

Happy New Year everyone :)

Standard Internet

Damn all you people do is ramble on about nothing and argue with idiots over absolutely nothing.

So much for reading this thread to find out who exited the industry this past year, it turned into a typical pissing match.

REALLY ?? and what is that ?:winkwink:

the irony in this thread could be well worth the wait.

maybe in 2010?

Have you been awake for 4 days on something?

I have never seen some one take so much time to put together a totally crazy scenario. This post has some of the most off statements I have even seen lol

this ^^^

That post is exactly how it's done. I speak from experience. I don't know you so I don't know what your experience may be. And no, lol...I'm not up for 4 days at all. What I did was give a careful explanation of how x-sells make the majority of companies more money than most of you realize or understand. That's all. I couldn't make that post in a brief sentence. It required a well thought out bit of work. But if you can show me how I'm "off" through YOUR knowledge...please do. I am always willing to learn a thing or two. :)

Or you can just do what 99.9% of the people on GFY do these days...post a couple of sentences that are meant to insinuate some hidden knowledge without backing it up with experience or facts. I don't care one way or another.


EDIT: And by the way, that's not a "crazy scenario" at all. I know several guys who are doing more than that amount of x-sales per day.

Is there a list of the trash were were NOT able to shed in '09?

After all these years It's still equally fun to read threads like this :) I must be bored lol. Happy new year everyone btw.

Happy New Year!

I will enjoy this thread in 2010 as well :thumbsup

Happy New Years to you guys on the East Coast...I still have 3 hours to go. :) Hopefully everyone in this thread will prosper and be around this time next year in good health and good fortune.

Happy New Year!

Ohhh but Of course... Starring ME...

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/946148-list-trash-able-shed-09-a.html


Sabby:)

No, there guys ARE shutting down banks.

All of you keep on supporting them. You will all find yourself out of a job soon. CAL was just the beginning. Wait until re-bills are not allowed. ALL of you fucks are back to flipping burgers unless you run a cam or dating site.

No, he is pretty much on the money. Most of you don't comprehend how much money is being made by some of these companies.

:2 cents: :2 cents:

Gott nytt Nicky!