Nah man, not bitter, certainly not irrelevant... perhaps to you... but it goes both ways dude.

I spoke the truth and you toned down a little. Mission Accomplished :thumbsup

Robbie, I like this avatar much better :thumbsup :pimp

Pisces.. love em or hate em... ya they do.


Sabby:)

BTW... pisces females are MUCH stronger than pisces males... for reasons I wont reveal...


Sabby:)

D-Money doesn't work for us... he gives us consulting on occasion and I don't even know why you brought him into the conversation.

If you were able to read you would see I said that I have no doubt that you make money... but I doubt it's coming from your program because the daily traffic on your program sites says otherwise. I have no idea what your business does to earn income... but it isn't from selling memberships to your 12clickscash paysites from the evidence that I can see.

My program is only 6 months old... what's YOUR excuse?

Anyone in your position that feels the need to belittle other people on GFY for entertainment or whatever reason has problems that I don't have. The amount of money you have doesn't mean shit to me or anyone I know. I have news for you... money doesn't make you a better person... in your case you will always be a douche no matter how much money you have... and you are still a poser.

Good post.. Im sorry I usually only post for 3 reasons: Im drunk and annoying, frustrated, or I need a pep talk...


Sabby:)

Many of us have been in this business for over 10 years and never looked up our alexa rating thing.

Personally I look at my profit and loss statements each month to see how well I am doing....

Some of the people who do the most joins each day you are not going to see there sites on such sites....

How low does your self esteem have to be to be bragging about income on a porn message board? Damn man, see a shrink.

Non-paying programs ....

Some of us have been webmasters for 10 years and dealt with alot of bullshitters who said they had a shit ton of traffic and didn't have jack... Alexa has been a reliable tool to sort the liars from the players for years. I can use Alexa to tell you within a low margin how much traffic a site really has and it has been a very useful tool for me and alot of other webmasters. Is it always 100% accurate? No... but it's got a fairly low error rate.

Personally, I can't stand 12clicks because he is a pompous ass... I don't start threads pointing out his bullshit but I certainly can point it out in a thread where he starts swinging around his insults. I am happy he has seen success... he isn't the only one that has... but most don't come to the board talking shit. What is the point?

Most of his money comes from cross sells on wegcash's "free" age verification tube sites.

If you don't know what an age verification site is there is an explanation in wikipedia. It is filed under internet fraud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_fraud

Here is the extract:

"...the perpetrators may also aim to use the customer's credit card information to obtain cash or to make purchases of their own. A common example of this type of fraud are pornographic websites that advertise free access. Upon further inspection, however, a credit card is required "for age verification purposes only". The scammers then use your credit card information to make large charges to the credit card."

I am not saying it, wikipedia is saying it....

That is total bullshit. Getting a credit card verification is good business. And if anybody used a "pornographic website" to "obtain cash or to make purchases of their own"...then there would be a bank getting closed down by the feds. Because webmasters do not have the credit card number. The processing bank does. The only thing that we can do with a credit card is charge them for a membership.

Don't forget that wikipdeia is written by everybody. No matter how uneducated they may be on a subject.

Robbie, I know where you are coming from, but have you had a look at tube sites recently?

They are now all sponsored by fake "free" dating sites and exgirlfriend sites rebilling at over $200. Four times $49.

We are talking about hundreds of thousands of transactions, thiese guys will shut down banks.

I don't want to carry on, but really, you might want to reassess who are your friends and who are your enemies :2 cents:

Welcome back, how was the day job?:1orglaugh

I was referring to the bullshit in the wikipedia that you quoted, not saying that you were saying anything wrong. :) Fake free sites have and always will be a great marketing tool. As are trials. Anything to get a credit card approved and billing. Every business in the world does it. Hell, I got my first 3 months of the Cox Cable Bundle for $99 a month...and then it jumped to $270 a month :( lol

If a person signs up for sites and gets a free trial that starts billing in a few days and they don't cancel...that's totally fair game. And always has been.

Putting x-sells on a cancel page or hiding them or making it impossible to cancel them...that's the part that moves into a more nasty area that I don't agree with.

But free sites that require your card? That's nothing more than a trial membership. It's actually a good deal...unless you're drunk at 3 in the morning and don't remember it the next day. But of course you get emails telling you about your membership and the terms as well.

I know when I sign up for anything that requires my card...I pay very close attention to it. I also have the common sense to check my bank account online everyday and keep tabs on charges. So no, I see nothing wrong with the marketing aspect of "free" sites using credit card age verification. Also don't forget that IF the consumer makes a mistake and didn't want anything they can very easily just simply...chargeback.

The chargeback is something that is never brought up in those conversations. It's very effective and ultimately insures that nobody ever has to be screwed.

Another GFYer comes home from the day job and swings and misses at what he has no clue about.

If you were able to read, you would see I said my receptionist makes more than your so called program.
Ask your billing rep. If he's polite, he'll tell you you're clueless, if not he'll simply laugh in your face. :1orglaugh

postin in a troll thread.

These are no trial memberships.

These are "no charge, 100% free" with different color background xsells... just have a look for yourself.

A bank has already been shut down, the one in the caribbean will be next (I am sure you know which one that is) The crap that is going through there is unbelievable.

Anyway, I am not trying to convince you, it is up to you to belive me or not, but know what they say about keeping your enemies close...

Congrats to you for paying your employees well. Maybe you can be a douche on the board and still treat your employees right... do you also tell them that they are shitstains and how much better you are than them?

BTW these guys have no affiliate programs and already traffic that dwarfs most big programs.

It is a whole new ball game...

Then I must be totally unfamiliar with what you're talking about. If I sign up for a free site with a credit card and it starts billing the next day...that's what is known as a free trial and cleverly marketed.

If you're saying that they somehow just take your money and don't show any terms that explain that it will start billing and rebilling and/or don't send you an email, then I would say you are right.

But I've never seen anything like that.

And as for the affiliate program...having a paysite doesn't mean you need an affiliate program. I almost wish I didn't have one. Affiliates don't have any traffic anymore. They are all just working Google...or even buying fucking adwords. Not exactly what an affiliate is supposed to be...more of a joke really.

But you're right...I'm ignorant of sites doing what you're reporting. Never seen it. Post a link that is unclickable so I can see one. What you're describing would be simple theft and would definitely cost them their merchant account.

If they don't have an affiliate program it isn't because of the hassle, but because their "business" is profitable enough to buy all the traffic they want. Ironically, straight from the content thieves you hate so much :2 cents: .

freedomtube.org hidden cross
http://lifestyleamateurs.com/freedomtube.jpg
http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...m-c129917.html
Notice... it can't be unchecked or anything.

Can you point me to one? I'd like to see what the hell they are pulling.

12clicks is a miserable guy. must suck being an angry stooge

Traffic is only part of the equation.
So www.site.com may only do 10hits a day however biller.site.com may do 200 joins a day. So you look up in Alexa and say your site only does 10 hits a day, but that does not tell you how many joins a day the site is really doing.
My point being not all sales come through the front door.

All I know is that for years certain people would do the occational hitjob on 12clicks for being around as long as they had, yet not making as much money.

Then he launches his cross sale scheme that refunds everyone no questions asked that calls customer support, and he is suddenly better than everyone.

I don't know the guy, but he seemed much more humble before just going by what I saw online.

Just checked that freedomtube out nationx

Yep, that's simply a hidden x-sell. Very nasty.

<label><input name="payType" value="onedayonedollartrial4847monthly4a:creditcar d" checked="checked" type="radio"><em><strong class="red">FREE PASS </strong><span class="white">- Credit Card $0</span></em></label></td>

They hid a $1/1 day trial that rebills at 47 bucks the next day.

That's what I was saying in my post up top when I said that sites using hidden x-sells are definitely looking to have their merchant accounts yanked.

I wonder if they send an email and/or show you what happened after you sign up to at least give you a chance to cancel? There has to be something somewhere that they are hiding behind to be able to continue processing credit cards with their merchant bank right?

Anyway, yeah...this shit is totally wrong. And doesn't fit with what I was referring to as far as the wikipedia thing. This is a hidden x-sell plain and simple. And I can't see how they can legally operate like this.

I know that for our merchant accounts they grilled us, gave us anal probings, and checked us out more thoroughly than the FBI does terrorists.

And they do a "review" and check us again every year. Every site and everything.

I need to find a cool bank like these guys are using and start doing the same thing! lol
That looks like easy money...

Just kidding. Those are fucking crooks.

No, I call YOU a shitstain and remind them how much better and better paid they are than you. :thumbsup

stfu you piece of shit

There are dozens, all intertwined, just look around.

I am not here to point fingers at somebody specifically, cross sellers do what they do, all I am saying is that as the party getting shafted we shouldn't celebrate them, this is costing us hard earned cash down the road :2 cents:

Then again some might read this and think, if you can't beat them join them, cross seller will end up doing even more business :1orglaugh

I kinda mis-spoke when I called it a hidden X SELL on freedomtube

I'm not sure it is a xsell. I think it's simply a hidden sell. Period. To be a xsell it would have to be selling a membership to another site. That appears to just sell a membership to their site. But I could be wrong.

It's GOT to be illegal right?

I havent had a day job for 5 years or more... coincidentally since I started my first business in adult.

See you may be bigger than me but youre not the only one to grow multiple business in this industry.

I never said you werent a bigger fish. But your shit still stinks and your attitude is less than mine.

I guess all Im trying to say is a higher ratio of people would enjoy me over you.

Im more :pimp

I don't think it is illegal.

There is usually a second page with conditions and cross sales.

Problem is, even legal, sites are ranking in the low thousands on Alexa, bought traffic on all the tubes, with all the traffic brokers, Blacklabelads.... that is a lot of surfers you and me will never see again. :Oh crap

People went crazy with AFF "sponsoring" the tubes, these guys manage to sponsor the tubes and fuck the surfers. Double whammy :thumbsup

As long as my bills are paid on time that is all I care about... I do have some outstanding debt and am not rich by any means... but I really have no complaints. I hope to retire early and travel the world... that would be great... but I am more than comfortable in my 4 bedroom 2600 sq ft house... driving my 07 chrysler sebring, paying cash for my daughters college and not having a dipshit like you telling me what to do. If that makes you better than me then you live in fantasy land. I don't and never will need a big fancy house that cost 3-5 times as much as mine or imported car that costs 5 times more than the one I have now that serves the same purpose and I certainly do not think you are better than me in any way, shape or form. We both take shits and we both have to eat and breathe to live and when that ends it won't matter much will it?

:drinkup

word to that...

Oh okay...if they follow up with a second page that explains it all, then they can say it's just tricky advertising (I personally think it's wrong). That would explain how they get away with it.