Solar energy at $1 a watt - GoFuckYourself.com

$5 submissions · 10-03-2009, 03:21 PM

If you've been looking for ways to live off the grid cheaply, your time may have come.

http://solveclimate.com/blog/2007121...gy-has-arrived

$1 a watt FTW Let's hope this technology goes the way of CPUs--more efficient, more poweful, and cheaper as time goes by.

cyber_ninja · 10-03-2009, 03:23 PM

how many watts does the average home use?

Si · 10-03-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

how many watts does the average home use?

Don't know excactly, but

Last power cut we had, we were running a 12v car battery with an inverter to power a lamp, the fan on the fire our satelite box and a tv.

Not sure on the wattage but if you take that into account it must be low.

Edit: it was a 20v deep cicle battery but still pretty amazing, lasted about 2-3 hours maybe more

Elli · 10-03-2009, 03:45 PM

I got one of those Kill-o-watt type meters that you plug into a wall socket, then your computer (or whatever appliance) into it. You can plug in your price per kwh and such and it tells you how much power the appliance uses. Even my pretty high-end pc with 8GB of ram, 3 HDDs, etc etc only uses 325w at max load on Prime95. That's not just the computer, that's the power bar with 2 20" monitors and speakers and desk lamp plugged in, too.

The microwave and electric kettle and toaster oven were all far worse.

$hurik · 10-03-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

how many watts does the average home use?

5-7 kwt/month on average

After Shock Media · 10-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $hurik

5-7 kwt/month on average

Actually about 14k a year or rounding up 40 kw per day. That is national averages are at least.
I keep all my utility stuff in a spreadsheet that goes back 5+ years. Even though I have a lot of medical equipment and use a portable heater. (we do have AC, but gas hot water, gas stove, gas heat) and our house averages about 29.
I do have a small house though.

Err those are kilowatt hours.

$5 submissions · 10-03-2009, 07:17 PM

What are the chances of this technology achieving an economy of SCALE? Maybe 10 cents per watt or less within 5 years?

After Shock Media · 10-03-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $5 submissions

What are the chances of this technology achieving an economy of SCALE? Maybe 10 cents per watt or less within 5 years?

Well not so good in 5 years, to many regulations and NIMBY crap.
However if we do not put all of our eggs in one basket (hello T. Bone), and stick with assorted types based on geography and resources. There have been some serious advancements in solar, yet still that is not for everyone in every place.

Hotrocket · 10-03-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

how many watts does the average home use?

Collect your last 12 months of Electric bills, average the total KWH listed each month and enter the info in the calculator on this page:
http://www.affordable-solar.com/gt-estimator.htm

Then check out the site and get an idea what size system your home needs.
BTW this is for grid tied systems..off grid will be more expensive/longer payback due to batteries, larger system needed, etc.

Also a note, there is currently a federal tax credit up to 30% for the cost of the system or more depending on the state that you live in and also what your utility supplier offers in rebates as well. It could be as much as 50% of your total system costs.
state by state info here: http://www.dsireusa.org/

Don't forget that many utilities are required to buy back the excess power you generate. That can figure significantly in the return on your investment.

After Shock Media · 10-03-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrocket

Don't forget that many utilities are required to buy back the excess power you generate. That can figure significantly in the return on your investment.

You also need to buy the equipment that allows it back onto the grid. Just a FYI since some forget that.

SleazyDream · 10-04-2009, 02:17 AM

every roof should be solar panels and not shingles

atman · 10-04-2009, 02:45 AM

so good
I like this product

docputer · 10-04-2009, 04:52 AM

Damn, a few counties to the west of me, the utility company will pay the entire cost of the system, then instead of paying you for the excess energy, they apply that to your equipment cost till it is paid off. My utility co are a bunch of greedy bastages, and they have no incentives at all.

Hotrocket · 10-04-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

every roof should be solar panels and not shingles

actually they have roofing shingles that are...
Spanish Tile style:
http://www.srsenergy.com/Home.aspx

traditional style:
http://www.roofingnetworks.com/info/...roof-shingles/

Elli · 10-04-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrocket

Collect your last 12 months of Electric bills, average the total KWH listed each month and enter the info in the calculator on this page:
http://www.affordable-solar.com/gt-estimator.htm

Then check out the site and get an idea what size system your home needs.
BTW this is for grid tied systems..off grid will be more expensive/longer payback due to batteries, larger system needed, etc.

Also a note, there is currently a federal tax credit up to 30% for the cost of the system or more depending on the state that you live in and also what your utility supplier offers in rebates as well. It could be as much as 50% of your total system costs.
state by state info here: http://www.dsireusa.org/

Don't forget that many utilities are required to buy back the excess power you generate. That can figure significantly in the return on your investment.

woah, very cool!

StinkyPink · 10-04-2009, 11:19 AM

Just an FYI. Most appliances tell you how many watts power consumption they use. Here are examples

Lights - Generally 60w or 13w equivelant low energy bulb
TV - CRT=75w-150w for 25" to 27" - LCD=Less - Projection=More
Microwave - 600w-1200w
Stereo - Recievers/Amps=100w-150w Cassette/Cd/Dvd/Vcr/Eq=25w-50w
Computer - Approx 250w-450w Gaming as much as 1500w fo high end machines!
Monitors - See TV
Heaters - 600w(low) 900w(medium) 1500(high) PER HEATER!
Fridge - 200w-300w
Range - Mine is a 2009 model that takes about 700w for 8" burner and 1100w for 12" burners oven is about 1200w
Water Heater - 1600w (30gallon 110v)-3500w (50gallon 220v)
Mine is an economy size, does ok for family of 2 but we stretch it with 3 in the household. It is rated at 1600w but we have to wait for it to heat up several hours after it is drained. 30 gallons and taps right into my existing 110v wiring.

So you can see it will add up, once you add all appliances and tv, stereo computer and a dozen lights. Of course they don't have to be on at the same time.

Consider you have a home theater playing a movie while you bake a casserole and the water heater kicks on. At $1 per watt you will find you are reaching your capacity rather quickly and will spend as much as $4k-10k on even a smaller home.

If you can live without watching tv or blasting your stereo while computing and cooking, then by all means setup a 2500w system. You better have kerosene or woodstoves though.

tiger · 10-04-2009, 12:07 PM

My last power bill was almost 700.00

dready · 10-04-2009, 12:30 PM

That article was dated '07. But, yeah, Nanosolar is an awesome company, and they've improved their panels greatly since then. Their new facility in Germany is just incredible:

rowan · 10-04-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkyPink

Just an FYI. Most appliances tell you how many watts power consumption they use. Here are examples

Lights - Generally 60w or 13w equivelant low energy bulb
TV - CRT=75w-150w for 25" to 27" - LCD=Less - Projection=More
Microwave - 600w-1200w
Stereo - Recievers/Amps=100w-150w Cassette/Cd/Dvd/Vcr/Eq=25w-50w
Computer - Approx 250w-450w Gaming as much as 1500w fo high end machines!
Monitors - See TV
Heaters - 600w(low) 900w(medium) 1500(high) PER HEATER!
Fridge - 200w-300w
Range - Mine is a 2009 model that takes about 700w for 8" burner and 1100w for 12" burners oven is about 1200w
Water Heater - 1600w (30gallon 110v)-3500w (50gallon 220v)

Unless the appliance is very simple (ie a light or an electric cooking element) you'll need to take these figures with a grain of salt. For example, a microwave oven will turn the magnetron on and off to regulate cooking, which will reduce the average consumption.

If you want to go green it's often better to think about small changes you can make to reduce your overall energy requirements, rather than just building a bigger and more expensive system...

I'm just about to buy an Intel Atom CPU based motherboard that draws less than 20W of juice, which includes a 'green' HD. Its processing power is roughly equivalent to a low end Pentium 4 and as a bonus it doesn't need a PSU, just a 12V DC input. That's the future.

$5 submissions · 10-04-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkyPink

Just an FYI. Most appliances tell you how many watts power consumption they use. Here are examples

Lights - Generally 60w or 13w equivelant low energy bulb
TV - CRT=75w-150w for 25" to 27" - LCD=Less - Projection=More
Microwave - 600w-1200w
Stereo - Recievers/Amps=100w-150w Cassette/Cd/Dvd/Vcr/Eq=25w-50w
Computer - Approx 250w-450w Gaming as much as 1500w fo high end machines!
Monitors - See TV
Heaters - 600w(low) 900w(medium) 1500(high) PER HEATER!
Fridge - 200w-300w
Range - Mine is a 2009 model that takes about 700w for 8" burner and 1100w for 12" burners oven is about 1200w
Water Heater - 1600w (30gallon 110v)-3500w (50gallon 220v)
Mine is an economy size, does ok for family of 2 but we stretch it with 3 in the household. It is rated at 1600w but we have to wait for it to heat up several hours after it is drained. 30 gallons and taps right into my existing 110v wiring.

So you can see it will add up, once you add all appliances and tv, stereo computer and a dozen lights. Of course they don't have to be on at the same time.

Consider you have a home theater playing a movie while you bake a casserole and the water heater kicks on. At $1 per watt you will find you are reaching your capacity rather quickly and will spend as much as $4k-10k on even a smaller home.

If you can live without watching tv or blasting your stereo while computing and cooking, then by all means setup a 2500w system. You better have kerosene or woodstoves though.

Good point. While $1 is a breakthrough, it definitely needs to go down much lower for it to make full economic sense (subsidy or no subsidy).

$5 submissions · 10-04-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dready

That article was dated '07. But, yeah, Nanosolar is an awesome company, and they've improved their panels greatly since then. Their new facility in Germany is just incredible:

Kickass video. Almost fully automated/robot-driven.

After Shock Media · 10-04-2009, 07:40 PM

In those lists people are also leaving out energy vampires. So damn many devices still pull when you have them turned off. Often the off function just means standby. Only real way to make sure your device is not pulling juice when off is to test each one or unplug them when not in use.

I know for example in our kitchen we have a power strip that has the coffee pot, electric kettle, coffee grinder, and spice grinder pluged into it. That strip gets turned off after each use. I have another strip that has the microwave, toaster oven, food processor pluged into that. It also gets turned off when done as I have no need for a clock on my microwave. The TV in the living room along with all of its componets are on a strip that is turned off too. The bedroom TV just gets powered down since we actively use the DVR, I suppose I could unplug the stero surround, as well as the actual TV but currently I am not.

We also have a timer for our hot water heater. Had a tankless but unfortunatly the contractor did not follow code, had to yank it and it needs lots of extra work to make code so I am back on a regular hot water heater. However it has no reason to heat all night long.

Lastly we are currently adding in some motion sensors to our lights in some rooms. I could do it now but I know our city is having an energy fair this month and they will be giving out some vouchers.

ilnjscb · 10-04-2009, 09:20 PM

Solar needs to go to .20 a watt to be viable. Plus, that $1 figure amortizes the cost over a life expectancy that may not bear out.

gonzojoh · 10-05-2009, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $hurik

5-7 kwt/month on average

Unless you're using another system to measure power, you're wrong. Lights alone would eat up that in a mo.

I have kept all data for about one year, and we're eating up min 300 KWh a mo (includes AC in the summer). Cooking and stuff are on gas though. Winter, that's another story... using up to 1100 KWh a mo due to heating.

StinkyPink · 10-05-2009, 05:29 AM

My post was based on power consumption, not usage. You have to think realistically about how much load you will need to handle at peak times. If you want to go completely off the grid, you will need to pay out some $$$$$$. However, if you have alternative source of heat and cooking, it could be reasonable.

My water heater uses little energy compared to others, it runs more often, but it runs on less power. In a solar environment it wouldn't matter as much. I use a wood fireplace and electric heaters. I hate the smell of kerosene. I want to get a pellet stove or an outdoor boiler system.

Cooking with electric skillets and crockpots is ok, we lived half a year on them while we waited for the snow to clear and have our appliances delivered. We live on a mountain basically. You can't bake though, but a toaster oven will get you hot subs and pizza.

All these appliances use a heating element that in the electric world, costs money to run. They are high wattage units. Coffee pots, toasters, toaster ovens, heaters, skillets, crock pots, griddles, or even the old fashioned electric heating plates. This will cost you.

Then again this is a GREAT deal for someone who wants to do the opposite of me. I decided to not do business with Gas companies, just electric for now. Cause I want to get an alternate electrical system and get off the grid completely. If you choose to get off electric and still recieve gas service, then by all means setup a 2500-3000 watt system.

Only thing that sucks for me now is that I live JUST within the city limits. Was thinking about a spring/well and septic system to get off the city water systems. Of course the city will tell me no, or just let me do it and collect a bill anyway. If shit goes down I want my ducks in a row. Fuck chemical warfare!

Wait... what is a computer without the internet? I will need to look into some 3G-4G plans.

mmcfadden · 11-03-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzojoh

Unless you're using another system to measure power, you're wrong. Lights alone would eat up that in a mo.

I have kept all data for about one year, and we're eating up min 300 KWh a mo (includes AC in the summer). Cooking and stuff are on gas though. Winter, that's another story... using up to 1100 KWh a mo due to heating.

That's about right. between 700 and 1000 avg. KWh per month.

Also... at least in New Jersey it is about 6.50 a watt to have installed. Just some information... if your house used 800 KWh per month average, located in NJ with about 4 hours usable sunlight, you would be looking at about an 8 KW system with approximately 45 180W panels.

The cost would be around $52,000. With incentives and proper pricing structure you can see you money back within the 2nd year.

Anybody who is serious about solar options feel free to hit me up... I am very interested in people who have set up sites for alternative energy solutions and I think we could help each other out.

10-03-2009, 03:21 PM	#1
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Solar energy at $1 a watt If you've been looking for ways to live off the grid cheaply, your time may have come. http://solveclimate.com/blog/2007121...gy-has-arrived $1 a watt FTW Let's hope this technology goes the way of CPUs--more efficient, more poweful, and cheaper as time goes by. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

10-03-2009, 03:45 PM	#4
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	I got one of those Kill-o-watt type meters that you plug into a wall socket, then your computer (or whatever appliance) into it. You can plug in your price per kwh and such and it tells you how much power the appliance uses. Even my pretty high-end pc with 8GB of ram, 3 HDDs, etc etc only uses 325w at max load on Prime95. That's not just the computer, that's the power bar with 2 20" monitors and speakers and desk lamp plugged in, too. The microwave and electric kettle and toaster oven were all far worse. __________________ email: [email protected]

10-03-2009, 07:17 PM	#7
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	What are the chances of this technology achieving an economy of SCALE? Maybe 10 cents per watt or less within 5 years? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

10-04-2009, 02:17 AM	#11
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	every roof should be solar panels and not shingles __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

10-04-2009, 02:45 AM	#12
atman Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,390	so good I like this product __________________ mjayyyy ICQ: 343 737 509

10-03-2009, 03:23 PM	#2
cyber_ninja Twerk That Ass Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lincoln, California Posts: 2,197	how many watts does the average home use?

10-04-2009, 04:52 AM	#13
docputer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,103	Damn, a few counties to the west of me, the utility company will pay the entire cost of the system, then instead of paying you for the excess energy, they apply that to your equipment cost till it is paid off. My utility co are a bunch of greedy bastages, and they have no incentives at all.

10-04-2009, 11:19 AM	#16
StinkyPink It's all goooood. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Hoe Stroll Posts: 1,591	Just an FYI. Most appliances tell you how many watts power consumption they use. Here are examples Lights - Generally 60w or 13w equivelant low energy bulb TV - CRT=75w-150w for 25" to 27" - LCD=Less - Projection=More Microwave - 600w-1200w Stereo - Recievers/Amps=100w-150w Cassette/Cd/Dvd/Vcr/Eq=25w-50w Computer - Approx 250w-450w Gaming as much as 1500w fo high end machines! Monitors - See TV Heaters - 600w(low) 900w(medium) 1500(high) PER HEATER! Fridge - 200w-300w Range - Mine is a 2009 model that takes about 700w for 8" burner and 1100w for 12" burners oven is about 1200w Water Heater - 1600w (30gallon 110v)-3500w (50gallon 220v) Mine is an economy size, does ok for family of 2 but we stretch it with 3 in the household. It is rated at 1600w but we have to wait for it to heat up several hours after it is drained. 30 gallons and taps right into my existing 110v wiring. So you can see it will add up, once you add all appliances and tv, stereo computer and a dozen lights. Of course they don't have to be on at the same time. Consider you have a home theater playing a movie while you bake a casserole and the water heater kicks on. At $1 per watt you will find you are reaching your capacity rather quickly and will spend as much as $4k-10k on even a smaller home. If you can live without watching tv or blasting your stereo while computing and cooking, then by all means setup a 2500w system. You better have kerosene or woodstoves though.

10-04-2009, 12:07 PM	#17
tiger Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,986	My last power bill was almost 700.00 __________________

10-04-2009, 12:30 PM	#18
dready Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 5,247	That article was dated '07. But, yeah, Nanosolar is an awesome company, and they've improved their panels greatly since then. Their new facility in Germany is just incredible: __________________ ICQ: 91139591

10-04-2009, 07:40 PM	#22
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	In those lists people are also leaving out energy vampires. So damn many devices still pull when you have them turned off. Often the off function just means standby. Only real way to make sure your device is not pulling juice when off is to test each one or unplug them when not in use. I know for example in our kitchen we have a power strip that has the coffee pot, electric kettle, coffee grinder, and spice grinder pluged into it. That strip gets turned off after each use. I have another strip that has the microwave, toaster oven, food processor pluged into that. It also gets turned off when done as I have no need for a clock on my microwave. The TV in the living room along with all of its componets are on a strip that is turned off too. The bedroom TV just gets powered down since we actively use the DVR, I suppose I could unplug the stero surround, as well as the actual TV but currently I am not. We also have a timer for our hot water heater. Had a tankless but unfortunatly the contractor did not follow code, had to yank it and it needs lots of extra work to make code so I am back on a regular hot water heater. However it has no reason to heat all night long. Lastly we are currently adding in some motion sensors to our lights in some rooms. I could do it now but I know our city is having an energy fair this month and they will be giving out some vouchers. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

10-04-2009, 09:20 PM	#23
ilnjscb Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 8,870	hmmmmm Solar needs to go to .20 a watt to be viable. Plus, that $1 figure amortizes the cost over a life expectancy that may not bear out.

10-05-2009, 05:29 AM	#25
StinkyPink It's all goooood. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Hoe Stroll Posts: 1,591	My post was based on power consumption, not usage. You have to think realistically about how much load you will need to handle at peak times. If you want to go completely off the grid, you will need to pay out some $$$$$$. However, if you have alternative source of heat and cooking, it could be reasonable. My water heater uses little energy compared to others, it runs more often, but it runs on less power. In a solar environment it wouldn't matter as much. I use a wood fireplace and electric heaters. I hate the smell of kerosene. I want to get a pellet stove or an outdoor boiler system. Cooking with electric skillets and crockpots is ok, we lived half a year on them while we waited for the snow to clear and have our appliances delivered. We live on a mountain basically. You can't bake though, but a toaster oven will get you hot subs and pizza. All these appliances use a heating element that in the electric world, costs money to run. They are high wattage units. Coffee pots, toasters, toaster ovens, heaters, skillets, crock pots, griddles, or even the old fashioned electric heating plates. This will cost you. Then again this is a GREAT deal for someone who wants to do the opposite of me. I decided to not do business with Gas companies, just electric for now. Cause I want to get an alternate electrical system and get off the grid completely. If you choose to get off electric and still recieve gas service, then by all means setup a 2500-3000 watt system. Only thing that sucks for me now is that I live JUST within the city limits. Was thinking about a spring/well and septic system to get off the city water systems. Of course the city will tell me no, or just let me do it and collect a bill anyway. If shit goes down I want my ducks in a row. Fuck chemical warfare! Wait... what is a computer without the internet? I will need to look into some 3G-4G plans.