What is with revshare doing cross sales

[Nurgle]

What the fuck is up with all the programs out there cheating revshare webmasters with doing prechecked cross sales on revshare links. Since when is revshare now a spot to x-sale and not give credit to the webmasters?

A quick search this evening has uncovered the following so far.. im sure there is more, please add.

At least Twistys give us the opportunity to choose a different payout

to the rest of you .. take them out!.. stop stealing..else quit bitching about tubes

Juggcash (prechecked)
Braincash (unchecked)
Famedollars (Prechecked)
Blazing Bucks (prechecked)
Met Art (unchecked)
Bang Bros (Prechecked)
Smashbucks (Prechecked)
Melissa Midwest (prechecked)
Suze.net (prechecked)
Teenrevenue (prechecked)
VideoSZ (Prechecked)
Matts Models (unchecked)

Nurgle

[AaronM]

Fucken newbies...Always bitching about something.

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Fucken newbies...Always bitching about something.

LOL thanks Aaron.. but seriously when has revshare started being not revshare.. i normally pay attention to things

programs like NScash, MP have never done it.. its called revshare for a reason

Rapeshare is PPS.. and u can expect to be raped there.. but revshare.. get stuffed!

[Ginn]

Yep, a real strange technique. At least they must have an option with no xsells for their webmasters.

[dial]

get over it and welcome to the real world

you get a cut of the sign up, that is IT, don't like it, stop whining and move along to the next program

shit, 90% of the mainstream sites I sell to upsell 20 things on the sign up form, but I still only get a cut of the actual sale

[Kelli58]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Fucken newbies...Always bitching about something.

Just curious but how is he a noob when he actually joined GFY before you?

[MrDeiz]

actually the list is much more bigger (almost all big names are into this)

but the point you brought is absoulutely right, though it seems like noone cares, all the folks promoting those programs are into crazy/messy PPS

[Nurgle]

I find it strange the guys doing revshare wouldnt care.. if the list is bigger and im sure it is.. please feel free to add to it.. this is absolute nonsense, revshare is supposed to be a partnership and always has been.. no wonder conversion rates are down

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

no wonder conversion rates are down

If this was the reason, sales wouldn't be good ever in adult. I always thought cross-sales have impact on sales, rebills, etc...but the fact is they don't.

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

If this was the reason, sales wouldn't be good ever in adult. I always thought cross-sales have impact on sales, rebills, etc...but the fact is they don't.

cross sales on revshare share is a relative new thing i reckon.. and the programs that have it i have worse ratio than those without it

[Major (Tom)]

we have standard rev share, and a 60/50 with up 60 recurring that has a precheck. But this is not the default, and you have to specifically choose that option. We didn't superimpose it over anyones links. I think it's the most fair way possible.
Duke

[MrDeiz]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

I find it strange the guys doing revshare wouldnt care.. if the list is bigger and im sure it is.. please feel free to add to it.. this is absolute nonsense, revshare is supposed to be a partnership and always has been.. no wonder conversion rates are down

do you really think that list will change a thing?
if webmasters don't bother to check the stuff they are promoting, what makes you think the list will change something?

[cybermike]

Its not going away and the best thing as an affiliate to do is ask for more of a % from the revshare links

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

the programs that have it i have worse ratio than those without it

just a coincidence, other factors are important when it comes to sales ratios

[livegirlsonbed]

Hi!

What about the webcam sites and Revs for life option?Is the revsh really revsh on sites like: Webcams.com / Imlive.com /cams.com ?!

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by daizzzy

do you really think that list will change a thing?
if webmasters don't bother to check the stuff they are promoting, what makes you think the list will change something?

why should i have to check my links every week to all the programs i promote.. a lot of these are newly added.. and ive been promoting them for yrs

[MrDeiz]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

why should i have to check my links every week to all the programs i promote.. a lot of these are newly added.. and ive been promoting them for yrs

you are right
i've removed many programs doing shady or blind x-sells from sbd and you'll find the list on the site

we don't and won't list such programs at signbucks daily, but i'll reply in this thread once i or signbucks will see any

[robwod]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

why should i have to check my links every week to all the programs i promote.

Agreed, it seems to be getting to a point where you have to check often, and go beyond the join page, but actually to see what has been added to the tours, and the billers page.

BTW, have you noticed the number of sites that have started adding links to their links list, or their social pages (myspace, twitter, etc.) on the tours?

[pornocruto]

Originally Posted by robwod

Agreed, it seems to be getting to a point where you have to check often, and go beyond the join page, but actually to see what has been added to the tours, and the billers page.

BTW, have you noticed the number of sites that have started adding links to their links list, or their social pages (myspace, twitter, etc.) on the tours?

More traffic leakage..

[TheDoc]

This isn't anything new... it has been happening from the dawn of revshare.

Programs aren't created equal... revshare doesn't mean every bit of revenue ever earned is shared. It means the main point of sales is yours, once gone.... it's fair game.

Everyone else is being nice and sharing more with you.

At the end of the day, it doesn't mean you will convert better or make more money. At the end of the day, it isn't about you.....

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

This isn't anything new... it has been happening from the dawn of revshare.

Programs aren't created equal... revshare doesn't mean every bit of revenue ever earned is shared. It means the main point of sales is yours, once gone.... it's fair game.

Everyone else is being nice and sharing more with you.

At the end of the day, it doesn't mean you will convert better or make more money. At the end of the day, it isn't about you.....

See your just talking shit, and clearly dont understand REVSHARE.

Even if its is as u say that they arent created equal... fine.. many of these sites have added these in after we have joined.. ive promoted many of these for years. They should contact their webmasters or make an announcement in their stats area saying hey we are no longer true revshare. feel free to stop promoting us

as for fair game.. this isnt PPS.. revshare traffic is NOT fair game

Clearly u dont understand the difference between revshare and PPS else you wouldnt have written such a stupid post

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

See your just talking shit, and clearly dont understand REVSHARE.

Even if its is as u say that they arent created equal... fine.. many of these sites have added these in after we have joined.. ive promoted many of these for years. They should contact their webmasters or make an announcement in their stats area saying hey we are no longer true revshare. feel free to stop promoting us

as for fair game.. this isnt PPS.. revshare traffic is NOT fair game

Clearly u dont understand the difference between revshare and PPS else you wouldnt have written such a stupid post

Yeah, the simple of it... revenue share with the site you are promoting.

Well, hell.. programs should start treating it that way then. Split the processing fee (so not 50% revshare, now like 45-40%, and cb's, refunds, the fees with those, bandwidth, the content cost... staff costs..

Let's really revenue share, like we should, let's become technical.... Your cut is now under 30%.. That's what revenue share means to the dictionary.


Now to the rest of the world... it means share the sale you produce on the main sales page OR to the site you are pushing. It doesn't mean, split everything with you - like you are thinking.

Adult Affiliates... like to "add" to the meaning, but not take any more risk..


PPS and Revshare when it comes to CREDITING the sale is no different. You should only get credit for sales produced to the site you are pushing.... Period.

And if you really want your "share" the cut would be well under 50%..

Greedy ass affiliates..

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Greedy ass affiliates..

quite simply ure a jackass with no fucking clue

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

quite simply ure a jackass with no fucking clue

He actually has a clue...and a lot of experience on top of that.

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

He actually has a clue...and a lot of experience on top of that.

of stealing from affiates?

[kristin]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

If this was the reason, sales wouldn't be good ever in adult. I always thought cross-sales have impact on sales, rebills, etc...but the fact is they don't.

He's right. When you have two pre-checks and you see the surfer only taking one, then you know they are seeing it, wanting the other site, and won't CB.

Mobile CB's/credits due to xsales is even lower. Because of how it displays on the phone, it's clear and no one could possibly miss it. No xsales on mobile revshare though.

[Don Pueblo]

times are a changing.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

of stealing from affiates?

You should really try to run a paysite with exclusive content. It isn't a walk in the park.

And the affiliate can always hit up the paysite owner and ask him for "clean" links, if its a big issue to him.

But I guarantee you it has NO impact on affiliate sales, so they aren't affected.

[Nurgle]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

You should really try to run a paysite with exclusive content. It isn't a walk in the park.

And the affiliate can always hit up the paysite owner and ask him for "clean" links, if its a big issue to him.

But I guarantee you it has NO impact on affiliate sales, so they aren't affected.

my point is i shouldnt have to check every week to see whats been added from what were originally clean links

i do run paysites, and no its not a walk in the park.. doesnt mean u change the rules to suit yourself

NScash do quite well offering 60% revshare and clean links.. a grouo im happy to be associated with.. we dont go turning revshare into the PPS model

And i totally disagree that it doesnt effect sales and rebills..

[Iron Fist]

I think I like where this thread is going...

[wizzart]

No fer play in adult biz anymore...

[famous]

Originally Posted by kristin

He's right. When you have two pre-checks and you see the surfer only taking one, then you know they are seeing it, wanting the other site, and won't CB.

Mobile CB's/credits due to xsales is even lower. Because of how it displays on the phone, it's clear and no one could possibly miss it. No xsales on mobile revshare though.

And i have yet to see any affialte come in and agree with you and andrej_NDC that it does not effect the affialte. Ofcourse a sponsor is gonna say it dosen't matter thier the ones benefiting.

[famous]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Yeah, the simple of it... revenue share with the site you are promoting.

Well, hell.. programs should start treating it that way then. Split the processing fee (so not 50% revshare, now like 45-40%, and cb's, refunds, the fees with those, bandwidth, the content cost... staff costs..

Let's really revenue share, like we should, let's become technical.... Your cut is now under 30%.. That's what revenue share means to the dictionary.


Now to the rest of the world... it means share the sale you produce on the main sales page OR to the site you are pushing. It doesn't mean, split everything with you - like you are thinking.

Adult Affiliates... like to "add" to the meaning, but not take any more risk..


PPS and Revshare when it comes to CREDITING the sale is no different. You should only get credit for sales produced to the site you are pushing.... Period.

And if you really want your "share" the cut would be well under 50%..

Greedy ass affiliates..

how is it being a greedy ass affialte by asking to get a true revshare? For PPS i fully understand the xsales and traffic leaks thats why you are paying 25-35 on a 1.99 trial. thats the only way you can do it. But with rev share if the surfer spends 2 bucks i get my cut of the 2 bucks and nothing more. So why is it fair to me if a surfer signs up for a 1.99 trial and i get 60% and you ahve 2 xsales that gets you 50 more dollars in sales. They cancel and no longer rebill. I only made 1.20 you made 50.80 so how is that fair and how the hell do you call that revshare? Without my traffic you would have made 0. Thats the point.

[andrej_NDC]

Originally Posted by Nurgle

And i totally disagree that it doesnt effect sales and rebills..

I thought the same...for a very long time. But there is only one way to find out. Try it out on your own traffic first and you will be surprised. Maybe only 15% the xsale pre-checked, the ones who really want both memberships.

[Furious_Male]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Yeah, the simple of it... revenue share with the site you are promoting.

Well, hell.. programs should start treating it that way then. Split the processing fee (so not 50% revshare, now like 45-40%, and cb's, refunds, the fees with those, bandwidth, the content cost... staff costs..

Let's really revenue share, like we should, let's become technical.... Your cut is now under 30%.. That's what revenue share means to the dictionary.


Now to the rest of the world... it means share the sale you produce on the main sales page OR to the site you are pushing. It doesn't mean, split everything with you - like you are thinking.

Adult Affiliates... like to "add" to the meaning, but not take any more risk..


PPS and Revshare when it comes to CREDITING the sale is no different. You should only get credit for sales produced to the site you are pushing.... Period.

And if you really want your "share" the cut would be well under 50%..

Greedy ass affiliates..

I almost always agree with what you say. I pretty much get the jist of your opinion on this as well. Revshare percentages have jumped over the years due to program competition. 30% would be decent revshare amount (with no crosses or credit to the affiliate on crosses).

The problem with the crosses on revshare in this day and age is some are pretty ugly. Many surfers are getting hit with 2 crosses at 39.95 monthly on top of the monthly price for the regular site. You can bet when they see these transactions (often including the trial price charges for the crosses) they are going to CB or cancel all of them including the site the affiliate is promoting.

I agree with both you and the OP on this. I am on the fence for the most part depending on how the program is doing the crosses.

[EvilFubAr]

www.hdpays.com offers revshare with ZERO xsells or consoles.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by famous

how is it being a greedy ass affialte by asking to get a true revshare? For PPS i fully understand the xsales and traffic leaks thats why you are paying 25-35 on a 1.99 trial. thats the only way you can do it. But with rev share if the surfer spends 2 bucks i get my cut of the 2 bucks and nothing more. So why is it fair to me if a surfer signs up for a 1.99 trial and i get 60% and you ahve 2 xsales that gets you 50 more dollars in sales. They cancel and no longer rebill. I only made 1.20 you made 50.80 so how is that fair and how the hell do you call that revshare? Without my traffic you would have made 0. Thats the point.

You should listen to what the smart guy below said, it may help you understand your question.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Programs aren't created equal...

Good point and thank goodness!

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Furious_Male

I almost always agree with what you say. I pretty much get the jist of your opinion on this as well. Revshare percentages have jumped over the years due to program competition. 30% would be decent revshare amount (with no crosses or credit to the affiliate on crosses).

The problem with the crosses on revshare in this day and age is some are pretty ugly. Many surfers are getting hit with 2 crosses at 39.95 monthly on top of the monthly price for the regular site. You can bet when they see these transactions (often including the trial price charges for the crosses) they are going to CB or cancel all of them including the site the affiliate is promoting.

I agree with both you and the OP on this. I am on the fence for the most part depending on how the program is doing the crosses.

The thing is, for most of us to receive or send xsales both parties have to qualify for them, like not have cb or refund issues. That's a huge factor Affiliates ignore or simply don't know about.

Most sites before xsales range around .5% cb ratios with slightly higher refund ratios. Really focused sites or sites under about 50 sales a day, can easily slip below that. Bigger sites and programs, that's a nice ratio to be at.

When you add xsales, you only have until about .8% ratio before processors start to get upset with you. If you can't get the average down or it grows, xsales will be the least of your worries.

Add to that, the programs listed aren't really the first to get complaints about retention and most spend a great deal a money on content, to make sure that retention is good.


So to end this... if xsales sucked that bad, if they really hurt retention or caused extra cb/refund issues, complaints and so on. They wouldn't be on those Websites, straight up.

--

A quick final note... Prechecked xsales - depending on the website and xsale of course, at an extreme match 20% of the people will take the xsale. That means 80% uncheck it.

They read it, for sure... if one is paid and one is free, the paid one gets unchecked far more. If both are un-checked, atleast 10% will take both xsales - but if one is free and one is paid, it can reach 20%.

As long as the xsale is honest and clear... the surfer "knows" what they are buying so much so, that our CB/refund ratios don't reflect the 'evil' that affiliates assume.

[The Porn Nerd]

I've played the game from both angles - as an affiliate (3 years+) and now as a Paysite Owner (3 years+). I can 'feel it' from both ends (heh).

As an affiliate NOTHING pissed me off more than when a Sponser changed the rules without telling me. There I was, the humble hard-working affiliate, keeping his head down and playing a game he didn't realize had changed on him! WTF? "I have to now wait HOW LONG to get paid instead of _____? The percentage is now WHAT instead of ____?"

Most of the time I had to discover these changes myself, by accidently stumbling over some obscure stat or being really keen on noticing every little shift. What a horrible way to do business!

Now, as a Program Owner, with that affiliate experience behind me, I do things a bit differant (maybe not?): When we launch our new AP in the Fall we'll offer BOTH 'leak-free' tours and our 'standard' tours, giving the affiliate the choice betwee lean/mean tours and 'meatier' tours, with some partner links and such.

To me, it all depends on how well an affiliate sells my shit AND how 'involved' that affiliate is, how well (if ever) they communicate. The ones who just throw up some affiliate links and walk away can't really complain, in my opinion. If this is your bread-and-butter and you're busting your ass, then you get a break. Welcome to the real world.

You see, from our perspective Dear Affiliates, there a fucking GAZILLION of you 'out there' in the vast web universe. Some (many) just throw up a million blogs, sites etc and utilize the 'spaghetti principle' - throw a MILLION sites out there and, numerically, you're BOUND to get some sales. Others (many) work their ASSES off and stay on top of everything, whether they be full-orpart-time adult webmasters. So how can WE, the Sponsers, know who's who exvept by checking stats and communicating with you?

Many affiliates 'get it', many don't - some are very experienced, others are newbies. So you have to do your best to accomodate all types of affiliates, or limit yourself to a certain 'type' of affiliate and let the others go somewhere else. A tough call. But doing it well means success, right?

So having said all that, any Sponser who delays payment, jiggles the books, changes payouts, percentages, etc etc are either short-sighted greedy fucks, overwhelmed by circumstance and therefore barely hanging on, or just fill in the blank. Not good, in other words. Maybe they're at fault, maybe they're just in over their heads in this tough economy and the pain trickels down, who knows?

Bottom line affiliates: If you think you're getting screwed COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR SPONSER. Not getting what you want? Walk.
Bottom line Sponsers: Treat your affiliates with basic human respect, from one hard-working muthafucka to another, or expect affiliates to walk.

Peace.

[famous]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

You should listen to what the smart guy below said, it may help you understand your question.

I personal dont think he knows what the fuck hes talking about But hey we all got a opinion i guess. Guess some sponsors don't care if they fuck the affilate in the end is what your saying. Thats not a very valid excuse in my book

[signbucks]

Originally Posted by famous

And i have yet to see any affialte come in and agree with you and andrej_NDC that it does not effect the affialte. Ofcourse a sponsor is gonna say it dosen't matter thier the ones benefiting.

double that

[dial]

most of you are idiots

revshare means the revenue that the SITE OWNER decides to share with you, not the revenue you WANT to be sharing

so, if the site owner decides he wants to share 60/40 of the site sign up, then that is what you get, not revenue from everything....next you all will want revenue sharing on all upsells in the members area right?

just because some programs decide not to do certain things doesn't mean they are following the "rules" when others aren't, it is up to each program to decide what the rules are, and up to you to decide if you want to play by each individual programs rules.

unless there is some set of internet porn marketing program bylaws recorded somewhere that I am missing

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by dial

most of you are idiots

revshare means the revenue that the SITE OWNER decides to share with you, not the revenue you WANT to be sharing

so, if the site owner decides he wants to share 60/40 of the site sign up, then that is what you get, not revenue from everything....next you all will want revenue sharing on all upsells in the members area right?

just because some programs decide not to do certain things doesn't mean they are following the "rules" when others aren't, it is up to each program to decide what the rules are, and up to you to decide if you want to play by each individual programs rules.

unless there is some set of internet porn marketing program bylaws recorded somewhere that I am missing

Once again, you have crystalized my thoughts.

[famous]

Originally Posted by dial

most of you are idiots

revshare means the revenue that the SITE OWNER decides to share with you, not the revenue you WANT to be sharing

so, if the site owner decides he wants to share 60/40 of the site sign up, then that is what you get, not revenue from everything....next you all will want revenue sharing on all upsells in the members area right?

just because some programs decide not to do certain things doesn't mean they are following the "rules" when others aren't, it is up to each program to decide what the rules are, and up to you to decide if you want to play by each individual programs rules.

unless there is some set of internet porn marketing program bylaws recorded somewhere that I am missing

yes its called sponsor etiquette 101. I want as little bullshit on the signup form as possible. The straighter it is to "pay here click next" the better chance I have at convering it. Thats why i always did rev vs pps becuase most pps signup forms have cross sales and everything else all over them and if you don't think all that crap does not scare off a surfer then i would be inclined to call you a idiot :/

If you have to keep your business afloat by using xsales on rev forms then maybe you need to rethink your business plan. If your members area is worth 10 cents (and most are not) then you would not even have to have a cross sale to start with anyways.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by famous

yes its called sponsor etiquette 101. I want as little bullshit on the signup form as possible. The straighter it is to "pay here click next" the better chance I have at convering it. Thats why i always did rev vs pps becuase most pps signup forms have cross sales and everything else all over them and if you don't think all that crap does not scare off a surfer then i would be inclined to call you a idiot :/

If you have to keep your business afloat by using xsales on rev forms then maybe you need to rethink your business plan. If your members area is worth 10 cents (and most are not) then you would not even have to have a cross sale to start with anyways.

No, it's called I run my own business and can run it how I see fit. Etiquette wise, as a majority "we don't screw surfers over and you get paid" that's the only etiquette we need.


I love your answer though.. Let's look at the programs posted. Some of them spend 20k-30k a month in fresh content each month. Let alone what they produce for you to promote them with.

And you get, more than 50/50? Wow, some greed going on I think, they should be paying 100%!!!


Yeah, if I was them I would rethink my business plan because an affiliate said so. Hell, only the biggest programs in the Industry, making people mad money for years, producing fresh sites and niches all the time... busting down millions up to, 20, 50 and 100's of millions a a year.


Clearly your logic is spot on... I see them listening, right when... well, maybe after... you buy them?

[famous]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

No, it's called I run my own business and can run it how I see fit. Etiquette wise, as a majority "we don't screw surfers over and you get paid" that's the only etiquette we need.

absolutely run your business how you see fit, thats why its yours ;) I have done this for 10 years and have seen lots of change in this indusrty and it simply comes down to what you make me as the affialte every month that is the bottom line. If you have a xsale on my rev links yet i still convert you at 1:1k on tgp traffic you can damn well bet I am still gonna push you reguardless. But on the other hand your ratios get high say 1:2k then I am gonna look around at what you are offering the surfer and why I persoanlly feel you are not converting my traffic. If I go to the join form and see tons of other stuff besides add your info and pay and next then I am gonna lean towards that being the issue and will drop you and move on to the next one. Will you care if i dont promote you, proabably not. Will i loose any sleep over not promoting you proabably not. Like your business is your business my business is my business and we will both run them how we see fit. At the end of the day the only thing that matters for either of us is the food we put on the table and the check we take to the bank

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by famous

absolutely run your business how you see fit, thats why its yours ;) I have done this for 10 years and have seen lots of change in this indusrty and it simply comes down to what you make me as the affialte every month that is the bottom line. If you have a xsale on my rev links yet i still convert you at 1:1k on tgp traffic you can damn well bet I am still gonna push you reguardless. But on the other hand your ratios get high say 1:2k then I am gonna look around at what you are offering the surfer and why I persoanlly feel you are not converting my traffic. If I go to the join form and see tons of other stuff besides add your info and pay and next then I am gonna lean towards that being the issue and will drop you and move on to the next one. Will you care if i dont promote you, proabably not. Will i loose any sleep over not promoting you proabably not. Like your business is your business my business is my business and we will both run them how we see fit. At the end of the day the only thing that matters for either of us is the food we put on the table and the check we take to the bank

Once again, you have crystalized my thoughts.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC

You should really try to run a paysite with exclusive content. It isn't a walk in the park.

And the affiliate can always hit up the paysite owner and ask him for "clean" links, if its a big issue to him.

But I guarantee you it has NO impact on affiliate sales, so they aren't affected.

<Places NDC on personal blacklist>

Nice to have a way to see which sponsors don't really give a fuck about affiliates and don't respect them. Makes it easier to send traffic to the other dozen sponsors within that niche instead.

I wish you all would just start ONE thread though and sign off your names. It'd be a lot easier for us to keep track.

[signupdamnit]

I get a kick out of these sponsors who openly disrespect affiliates. It isn't as if we have 10,000 other sponsors we can send traffic to.

In my experience when a sponsor starts talking about how "Affiliates don't deserve 50%" then that usually means as an affiliate I'm going to get fucked. Usually they'll find an excuse or way.....

[signupdamnit]

TheDoc, which programs do you run or are you involved with?

Thanks in advance.