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Voodoo 09-22-2009 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymor (Post 16348684)
If people can't download it, they can't post it. That's an absolute truth - you can't
steal or post what you can't download. Now does that have anything at all to
do with Flash video or other embedded video? No. The other day a friend wanted
a Youtube video converted to to .mpg file. It took me all of two minutes to check
Google to see how to save a Flash video, download the software, and have it done.
People don't seem to understand that in order to play a Flash or other embedded video,
the browser has to download it. In order to allow the user to rewind and to re-play
the video, Flash saves the video to the hard drive. There are then freely available
programs which find that video that Flash saved and move it wherever the punter
wants it.

So we know two things - they can't post something you don't let them download,
and "streaming" IS downloading, so streaming doesn't change a thing.

There are several things you can do to reduce content theft and having your content
all over the tubes. One of those is based on the fact that they can't post what they
don't download. The tube site owners especially, and also the other 10% of rippers
who steal 90% of the content don't hassle with logging in to your site to get one
fucking video. They come to get EVERYTHING, if you have a small to medium sized
site, or two get HUNDREDS of videos from a mega site. Go spend an hour on the
forums where these guys hang out and you'll find they download IN BULK. In a six
hour period they might download videos totalling 30-50 hours of video. That makes it
real fucking easy to tell the difference between these guys and the legit surfers.
Take a look at this graph is the top twelve users for a typical site:

http://bettercgi.com/throttlebox/man...imits/3day.gif

The top 12 users downloaded between .7GB and 4.7 GB, except for one guy who did
20GB. He downloaded more than the next top ten users COMBINED. Who do you
think is grabbing all your shit to post on the tubes?

Looking at the graph, you can see that on that site setting a limit of about 6GB
wouldn't have any effect at all on any legitimate user, but would stop the the
bad guys from doing what they want to do. Of course you can actually do a little
better than that simplistic approach, so we do something a little more sophisticated:
http://www.bettercgi.com/throttlebox...s/ruleEdit.png
Many Tubes are just ripping DVDs, and uploading it themselves. Doesn't have anything to do with downloadable members content.

DWB 09-22-2009 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16349115)
When I first went streaming...I went streaming only. PROTECTED streaming. I immediately had about 20 members write me cursing me out and they quit.

I was scared to death...I thought I had really fucked up.

But then...that was it. Everybody else was perfectly happy.

And after a couple of months of rebills going good and new sales still strong, I still had a couple of thousand members. No drop in numbers of rebills or new sales.

I then realized that those 20 that went off on me in the beginning...were probably the motherfuckers who were stealing my shit to begin with.
Rock on Sir Robbie. :thumbsup

Chris 09-22-2009 12:59 PM
Hey todd :)
Hope you are doing well.


Regards
Chris

DWB 09-22-2009 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo (Post 16349142)
Many Tubes are just ripping DVDs, and uploading it themselves. Doesn't have anything to do with downloadable members content.
This is why I stopped producing DVDs.

If I'm going to circle my wagons and protect my ONLINE content, I can't let it go to DVD, as it would defeat everything I'm doing.

I will miss the money, but in the long run, I believe it is the best choice.

Brujah 09-22-2009 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16349115)
When I first went streaming...I went streaming only. PROTECTED streaming. I immediately had about 20 members write me cursing me out and they quit.

I was scared to death...I thought I had really fucked up.

But then...that was it. Everybody else was perfectly happy.

And after a couple of months of rebills going good and new sales still strong, I still had a couple of thousand members. No drop in numbers of rebills or new sales.

I then realized that those 20 that went off on me in the beginning...were probably the motherfuckers who were stealing my shit to begin with.
:1orglaugh Does it work with mobile users? Do you notice in your log files a lot more mobile users than ever?

ProG 09-22-2009 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo (Post 16349142)
Many Tubes are just ripping DVDs, and uploading it themselves. Doesn't have anything to do with downloadable members content.
I highly doubt they are even putting in the effort for post-production (capture, edit, and encode). Just go to the newsgroups and download all the DivX DVDs or full length member scenes that you need for your tube.

Here you go: EasyNews, GigaNews, ThunderNews

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16349165)
This is why I stopped producing DVDs.

If I'm going to circle my wagons and protect my ONLINE content, I can't let it go to DVD, as it would defeat everything I'm doing.

I will miss the money, but in the long run, I believe it is the best choice.
Quite obvious that DVD is going to go the way of the dinosaur very soon anyways. With the size of usb flash drives and shit I don't see dvd remaining a viable format for long. I can see someone doing "download stations" at adult book stores lol. Plug in your flash drive, put in your money and "vend" out whatever scenes you want take them home and watch. But most people would just download what they want. lol You could sell flash drives right next to the video distribution booths ;)

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16349174)
:1orglaugh Does it work with mobile users? Do you notice in your log files a lot more mobile users than ever?
He has smaller res versions for mobile users. We do that also with ipod downloads with large watermarks. Go look on the big tube sites try to find videos with large watermarks. You won't unless that company paid to have their videos there.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProG (Post 16349185)
I highly doubt they are even putting in the effort for post-production (capture, edit, and encode). Just go to the newsgroups and download all the DivX DVDs or full length member scenes that you need for your tube.

Here you go: EasyNews, GigaNews, ThunderNews
I won't name the site, but you can pay 13.95 a month and download dvd quality very quickly and easily with no watermarks. No limits.

Brujah 09-22-2009 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 16349202)
He has smaller res versions for mobile users. We do that also with ipod downloads with large watermarks. Go look on the big tube sites try to find videos with large watermarks. You won't unless that company paid to have their videos there.
How do you think your large watermark, poor resolution small videos will compete? You can't really expect to offer an inferior product and make more money.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16349211)
How do you think your large watermark, poor resolution small videos will compete? You can't really expect to offer an inferior product and make more money.
Sigh.. no splainin to some people. lol The downloadable version is watermarked with a large watermark, and lower resolution. Streaming is full version with smaller watermark.

Robbie 09-22-2009 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16349211)
How do you think your large watermark, poor resolution small videos will compete? You can't really expect to offer an inferior product and make more money.
I don't offer an "inferior product"

Let me type this one more time:

Member enters members area.
They are presented with a tube-like interface with every scene we've shot to date nice and orderly and super easy to navigate.
They click on the scene they want to see.
They go to that particular scene's individual page.
A HIGH RES, HIGH QUALITY, LARGE streaming vid begins auto playing instantly. No need to download, no need to wait on anything. And if the member wants...he can grab the cursor and skip any parts he wants and just drag the cursor on the timeline to the part he wants to see NOW. In other words he can just skip the blowjob and go straight to anal and cumshot if that is what he prefers. WITH NO WAITING.
While that movie is already playing he also has a link to high res pictures that open in a new tab so the movie isn't interrupted and another link to video capture pics as well. In between those two links is a big DOWNLOAD link that he can just left click to download the lower res version I give him.
Meanwhile he has his cock in his hand jerking to the HIGH QUALITY version that is already streaming before his eyes.
He also has some Web 2.0 things to play with in the form of ranking the scene and/or leaving a comment on the video.

That sir is NOT an "inferior" anything. That is so superior to what I see in members areas that I get access to that it's not even close.

And how do I "expect to compete"? Well...Claudia-Marie.Com is the largest sologirl porn site in the world. Both in terms of traffic and sales and retention. How is THAT for "competing" At this point...I really don't have any competition.

But I'd like some! :pimp

3xTom 09-22-2009 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-null (Post 16345911)
are they really trying to sell traffic here, or is it just some kind of elaborate "hahaha on all of you" kind of thing? :helpme
Hum good point

HomerSimpson 09-22-2009 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonsyinister (Post 16346201)
sweet geezus, point made
man really has the poin...
(pussyshake LOL)

Brujah 09-22-2009 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350097)
I don't offer an "inferior product"
I'm talking about the average internet user being forced to watch a non-buffering streaming video. I haven't actually experienced it myself to see how smooth or fast it streams. If you want to throw me a user/pass to witness it in action I'd love to take a peek and even see if I can't save a copy of it.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16350547)
I'm talking about the average internet user being forced to watch a non-buffering streaming video. I haven't actually experienced it myself to see how smooth or fast it streams. If you want to throw me a user/pass to witness it in action I'd love to take a peek and even see if I can't save a copy of it.
Im going to try to get some samples up. Larger samples that is. If you want to watch one in youtube style resolution you can go here.

http://www.cavecreek.com/HD-Flash-CDN.php

Quick video we did so they could demo it. Going to put together a larger one for them possibly to show 720p and maybe 1080p.

Robbie 09-22-2009 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16350547)
I'm talking about the average internet user being forced to watch a non-buffering streaming video. I haven't actually experienced it myself to see how smooth or fast it streams. If you want to throw me a user/pass to witness it in action I'd love to take a peek and even see if I can't save a copy of it.
Brujah...verbiage is very important in sales and marketing. When you use words like "forced to watch..." I just shake my head.

How about this...we don't force the average internet user to wait for what he wants to download. We PROVIDE instant gratification. Which is what they are used to already in case you noticed the gigantic numbers that pornhub is doing. Or even bigger: youtube.

Brujah 09-22-2009 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350575)
Brujah...verbiage is very important in sales and marketing. When you use words like "forced to watch..." I just shake my head.
Get over it. I haven't tried to insult you or anything. I think I've asked some good questions. If you don't want to answer them because the verbiage I use isn't compatible with your sensibilities, then just don't.

Quote:
How about this...we don't force the average internet user to wait for what he wants to download. We PROVIDE instant gratification. Which is what they are used to already in case you noticed the gigantic numbers that pornhub is doing. Or even bigger: youtube.
Both of those sites buffer for me and I have a pretty good connection. I can use a greasemonkey add-on to prevent that by buffering more of the video and that results in a slower start but a less annoying, smoother experience overall.

Like I indicated previously, I haven't actually seen your product. I have no way to compare it and see what the experience would be like for me. If I were a potential customer of the service -- and I'm not -- I'd be interested in the answers to these questions. Consider that maybe some program owners are curious too and will be sold on what they hear in this topic.

Sticky -- Thanks, I'll check those out.

Robbie 09-22-2009 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brujah (Post 16350620)
If I were a potential customer of the service -- and I'm not -- I'd be interested in the answers to these questions. Consider that maybe some program owners are curious too and will be sold on what they hear in this topic.

Sticky -- Thanks, I'll check those out.
I'm not offering any service. Sticky is. And a damn good one too.

And I've already spoken to a lot of program owners that have known me for many, many years. I can't force anyone to do anything. But every one of them to a man is in agreement that just sitting here and watching their businesses destroyed isn't a very good plan.

Maybe they will change it over (a lot of them are in the process of encoding as we speak) Or maybe they won't and 2 years from now there will be one gigantic goliath of porn known as Brazzers. And one solitary little tiny paysite that I have. And that's all that will be left.

The only other option would be to open all of our paysites and steal each others content. Make giant tubes out of them and make a "premium" section that we can sell for 79 bucks for a year.

Oh wait a minute...ph already did that. :1orglaugh

GatorB 09-22-2009 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautilus (Post 16347986)
Yes and exactly because they suck half of the Alexa top 100 sites are tubes.
tubes suck PERIOD. People go there because the content is FREE not because the content is there in a convenient way. If you think people would pay $39.95 a month for membership to a tube site you're fucking nuts.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 08:47 PM
100 people thinking waiting for downloads is cooolll. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 16350725)
tubes suck PERIOD. People go there because the content is FREE not because the content is there in a convenient way. If you think people would pay $39.95 a month for membership to a tube site you're fucking nuts.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Ya after all most people when about to jerk off want to wait 7 minutes or so to download a scene. Dick in hand ready to jerk... watching a status bar telling them how many minutes till they can shoot their load.

This seems innovative. I think TV channels should start using a courier system. You click on a channel, and a guy drives a dvd out to you so you can pop it in and watch it.

I mean people aren't used to instant viewing of video right? That whole tv since the 40's and 50's thing.. being able to click a button to watch a new channel, now youtube being the biggest media site on the planet. ITS OBVIOUS that you are so much more in touch with the public than the rest of us. I personally LOVE LOVE LOVE the anticipation of downloading a hot scene before I can view it. Seems obvious that everyone would prefer to download something and wait till they can view it.. obvious.

The whole instant viewing thing is just a fad....

GatorB 09-22-2009 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 16348523)
Our streams don't buffer, nor do many of the other companies running streaming the right way. I've had people check our streams in Costa Rica, in Europe, in Canada, South America etc all on slower connections like 3000 down and 128 up and they didn't buffer or glitch for them. Just because you had bad experience with some companies that didn't have their streaming setup correctly doesn't mean all streaming just buffers constantly.

Ya afterall that Youtube place really lost its popularity with its whole "streaming" concept. I mean who even goes on that site with all the buffering? You'd think that people would surely have demanded that place goto a downloadable model so people could watch those videos at their own convenience offline right?
Youtube also loses $300 mil a year. Not exactly a business model I would want to emulate.


Quote:
Tell you what find me some non streaming download video sites with higher alexa rankings than this that are based off video.



Youtube.com
4
Alexa Traffic Rank

Pornhub.com
50
Alexa Traffic Rank

tube8.com
71
Alexa Traffic Rank

hulu.com
247
Alexa Traffic Rank

Break.com
403
Alexa Traffic Rank

Veoh.com
222
Alexa Traffic Rank

DailyMotion.com
76
Alexa Traffic Rank

Vimeo.com
461
Alexa Traffic Rank


We'll be waiting patiently for your results... :1orglaugh
That has nothing to do with anything. As I said Youtube loses $300 mil a year. Hulu is considering going to subscription model. What's Hulu's ranking going to be then? Also you're comparing porn to non-porn. Sites like Hulu and Youtube actually have the bandwidth to stream properly. Most of these porn tubes don't. So please keep defending them. Hell I like Hulu I go there all the time. I'm not against streaming. The thing is Hulu is FREE and I put up with the small amount of commericals to enjoy the free shows. If I was required to pay I'd have different expectations.

You just like to argue with me. Go back to sucking dick and giving away cameras in exchange for content you "accidently borrowed"

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 16350753)
Youtube also loses $300 mil a year. Not exactly a business model I would want to emulate.




That has nothing to do with anything. As I said Youtube loses $300 mil a year. Hulu is considering going to subscription model. What's Hulu's ranking going to be then? Also you're comparing porn to non-porn. Sites like Hulu and Youtube actually have the bandwidth to stream properly. Most of these porn tubes don't. So please keep defending them. Hell I like Hulu I go there all the time. I'm not against streaming. The thing is Hulu is FREE and I put up with the small amount of commericals to enjoy the free shows. If I was required to pay I'd have different expectations.

You just like to argue with me. Go back to sucking dick and giving away cameras in exchange for content you "accidently borrowed"

Can't keep the debate clean can you? Always going for the personal shit eh? What fucking difference does it make if youtube is losing money? They are a free model. You were claiming people don't like streaming video. I showed you the biggest sites on the planet are ummm streaming video. And they are actually mostly progressive downloads not even true streaming. I can deliver video better and faster than you tube with NO buffering to my members. And btw if you believe all that shit about the camera and not sure what you mean by borrowed content. I sold content to a client, and all money went where it was supposed to. I sent a 1400.00 camera to Brad that he was supposed to shoot video in Thailand with for a joint biz venture. He still has the camera. I GOT FUCKED for 1400.00 yet I didn't ever cry or whine about it on gfy. I won't mention the paysite that he redirect the url on that was already up and processing sales. Im the one that got fucked there and there are many people that know the truth now. I don't ask them to come stick up for me about it. But ya believe the guy that comes on here and acts like an ass due to alcohol abuse. You are about as stupid as him so it makes sense.

But again you can't handle just debating the issues going on, have to goto a personal level and that shows what a pathetic lump of skin you really are.

Robbie 09-22-2009 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 16350725)
tubes suck PERIOD. People go there because the content is FREE not because the content is there in a convenient way. If you think people would pay $39.95 a month for membership to a tube site you're fucking nuts.
That's not true. Claudia-Marie is set up just like a tube site. I get 29.99 all day long and rebill better than most other paysites as well.
You are merely giving an opinion. I'm telling you what I am actually doing and have done for more than a year.

GatorB 09-22-2009 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 16350748)
100 people thinking waiting for downloads is cooolll. lol



:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Ya after all most people when about to jerk off want to wait 7 minutes or so to download a scene. Dick in hand ready to jerk... watching a status bar telling them how many minutes till they can shoot their load.
Yes most guys with dick in hand love jerking of to a 400 kbps stream that buffers every 10 seconds. quit arguing. First you bash tubes then you praise them just to disagree with me. Seriously fuck of and die because I'm not sure WTF your issue is.

GatorB 09-22-2009 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350777)
That's not true.
it's not true I woudn't buy a membership to a stream only site? You know me better than I know me?

Quote:
You are merely giving an opinion. I'm telling you what I am actually doing and have done for more than a year.
Well my opinon matters to me. And good for you.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorB (Post 16350781)
Yes most guys with dick in hand love jerking of to a 400 kbps stream that buffers every 10 seconds. quit arguing. First you bash tubes then you praise them just to disagree with me. Seriously fuck of and die because I'm not sure WTF your issue is.
You show with every post your cluelessness.

I didn't praise tubes.. where did I do that exactly? 400 kbps? lolz Most of us are around 1100 and that was on old flash stuff we did 1100. You just have no clue AT ALL. Do you work with video? Do you encode, edit, or produce video? Can you show us samples of your work? Do you run a paysite? Do you have any sites? What exactly qualifies your opinion as useful? Are you a surfer? Do you sign up to paysites? Please enlighten us all on your experience.

Robbie 09-22-2009 09:22 PM
Ryan, please don't get into a fight with GatorB.

He will think and do as he pleases. And his actions and thoughts really won't have any bearing on what is happening.

The people who actually OWN content know what is happening to them. And guys like myself who have made a lot of money with TGP's and affiliate work and now paysite work know EXACTLY what we are doing.

If you get into a stupid argument you only take away from the real matter at hand.

Bottom line is this: If you own a paysite, you have two choices...keep watching the rebills and new sales fade OR do something about it. I chose the latter. I've been very successful at everything I've done in adult.

I trust my instincts and judgment more so than anybody on this board. Other folks can do as they wish.

But I would like to say this to any other paysite owners...If and when you start protecting your content, please email me. YOU will become the main sites I push on my TGP's. I am sick of 1:15000 type conversion ratios on paysites these days due to piracy. Same sites that were 1:350 3 years ago. Same sites that update weekly and have fantastic content. The one thing that is different? Their entire members areas are now FREE on torrents and "bad" tube sites.

If you protect your content...I WANT TO PROMOTE YOUR PAYSITE. You are front of the line for me.

stickyfingerz 09-22-2009 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350804)
Ryan, please don't get into a fight with GatorB.

He will think and do as he pleases. And his actions and thoughts really won't have any bearing on what is happening.

The people who actually OWN content know what is happening to them. And guys like myself who have made a lot of money with TGP's and affiliate work and now paysite work know EXACTLY what we are doing.

If you get into a stupid argument you only take away from the real matter at hand.

Bottom line is this: If you own a paysite, you have two choices...keep watching the rebills and new sales fade OR do something about it. I chose the latter. I've been very successful at everything I've done in adult.

I trust my instincts and judgment more so than anybody on this board. Other folks can do as they wish.

But I would like to say this to any other paysite owners...If and when you start protecting your content, please email me. YOU will become the main sites I push on my TGP's. I am sick of 1:15000 type conversion ratios on paysites these days due to piracy. Same sites that were 1:350 3 years ago. Same sites that update weekly and have fantastic content. The one thing that is different? Their entire members areas are now FREE on torrents and "bad" tube sites.

If you protect your content...I WANT TO PROMOTE YOUR PAYSITE. You are front of the line for me.

You are correct. I shouldn't let myself be baited by a fat idiot.. oops nm. :winkwink::1orglaugh

BigDeanEvans 09-23-2009 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 16349088)
I've never paid a dime to tubes and still manage to get free traffic from them. ;) Thats what everyone needs to be doing. Its like any other traffic source ... find a way to exploit it for your own needs. lol

LOL, what a few hits? its takes 10's of thousands of hits to make a sale...you must be talking about making cheeseburger money, not any real money.

BigDeanEvans 09-23-2009 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickyfingerz (Post 16349088)
I've never paid a dime to tubes and still manage to get free traffic from them. ;) Thats what everyone needs to be doing. Its like any other traffic source ... find a way to exploit it for your own needs. lol

LOL, what a few hits? its takes 10's of thousands of hits to make a sale...you must be talking about making cheeseburger money, not any real money.

stickyfingerz 09-23-2009 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDeanEvans (Post 16351902)
LOL, what a few hits? its takes 10's of thousands of hits to make a sale...you must be talking about making cheeseburger money, not any real money.
No it really doesn't. I was uploading watermarked videos to tubes in 2006 long long time ago pushing traffic to a landing page to filter the traffic out and getting good ratios on the sponsor side. Never took 10's of thousands of hits. Maybe if you were pushing general old traffic to normal porn, but pushing towards nichey stuff isn't that hard.

Fletch XXX 09-23-2009 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350777)
You are merely giving an opinion. I'm telling you what I am actually doing and have done for more than a year.
:thumbsup:thumbsup

Dennis69 09-23-2009 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350777)
That's not true. Claudia-Marie is set up just like a tube site. I get 29.99 all day long and rebill better than most other paysites as well.
You are merely giving an opinion. I'm telling you what I am actually doing and have done for more than a year.
Good to hear it's working out for you Robbie... but if you talk to the wall it may sink through quicker then most here!

Wizzo 09-23-2009 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16350777)
That's not true. Claudia-Marie is set up just like a tube site. I get 29.99 all day long and rebill better than most other paysites as well.
You are merely giving an opinion. I'm telling you what I am actually doing and have done for more than a year.
I've telling people for about a year now that a good tube script is in most cases a better CMS for a member area than any actual CMS software...:thumbsup

Nautilus 09-23-2009 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewNick (Post 16349061)
Do you think they came here to get humiliated because their coffers are bursting with ad revenue?
Interesting point.


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