You're a fucking idiot.

EDIT, I forgot you are developing a solution and will be soon 'selling' the service. Go figure.

Actually man, all of you busting the balls of people who are moving to streaming, are going to be the odd men out come pretty soon. If you had any clue at how many people are moving into streaming, you would hold your tongue.

Dude playboy is broke. They will take anyones money now.
You think reality cash is paying the bills. Common. Be real.
Duke

It's a huge shame, that's for sure.

We have never released our videos on DVDs, and yet we have to DMCA our stuff off various illegal tube and torrent sites DAILY. I'm pretty sure that switching to streaming only model which we're going to do soon will help alot with that problem.

Sure many sites do have their stuff on DVDs but getting a DVD is way harder and more expensive than just going to members section with a stolen password and downloading. By cutting at least this source of infringenent off you'll surely decrease the amount of your stuff floating around. The effect will be less than in the case of sites that distribute their videos inside member areas only, but you'll still see the effect.

Tube site owners get lots of "help" from their users when it comes to collecting and uploading content, that's why many of them boast such an amazing variety of videos - one or several owners are hardly capable of getting such a broad scoop of stuff by visiting member areas and downloading, let alone ripping DVDs. The harder you make it for all of them (both surfers and tube site owners) to rip your vids, the less of them will be floating around.

Streaming is not 100% defence against infringements, but it reduces the amount of it to the a managable level.

If you do not have your videos on DVDs, not not sell in clipstores etc, streaming will reduce the amount of your stuff out there by 98% I think.

If you do some of the above, streaming will cut the amount of your stuff floating around by probably 80% - which is less then it is in the first case, but still not bad at all.

exactly, i think this is wake up call to those who had this fairy tale vision of "adult" being some carebear industry LOL

working in the san fernando valley for a decade taught me more about "adult" than anything youll ever read online LOL

this is the Darkside and the Horde keep it that way.

I see tubes as the de-evolution of adult. Back in the day 97-99 people were stealing content all over the place too because it was so expensive. People eventually smartened up and sponsors started offering content to promote with. Piracy was fairly dead in adult. Then these tubes come around and once a few are doing it, so many feel that its "ok". Way to set the industry back 10 years.

I would NEVER buy a membership to a site that is stream only. Streaming sucks. Hell that's why tubes suck. STREAMING. Oh yeah I love movies that fucking buffer every 10 fucking seconds on my 20 Mbps connection. I can only imagine the poor sucker that has a much slower connection ( MOST of America ) feels. Some people prefer download not because they want to keep the thing forever, but because it plays smoother and it can be watched at one's convenience even without a internet connection

There's zero real community in this industry, small cliques and nothing more. If the industry actually gave a shit about it's own wellbeing it would band together as a whole and do something about it. But as wecan all see that will never happen. online adult is a sinking fucking ship until the laws change to protect it, and that clearly isn't going to happen. that's why i said fuck it and got out. There is just no clear and visible future.

If there was a real community, it would be as simple as someone firing up a new board on a $8 domain with a $200 vb license, and EVERYONE of value to this forum, just migrating elsewhere. Everyone coming together and saying, well, fuck TrafficJunky, no one buys traffic from them ever. but again, not gonna see that ever fucking. Never.

So fuck it, I hopped in my lifeboat and have gone looking elsewhere for my online monies. There's clearly no future in this biz. Especially for the affiliate, who is going to be the first to really feel the pain.

You might reconsider that one day if it becomes your only option. :2 cents:

But I give it a whopping 6 months tops before some bored malayasian teen cracker with a taste fo free pornography dismantles the entire fucking system and they're sharing all your shit again.

If it can be coded, it can be just as easily coded around...

50 tubes created since this thread was started

oops lol repost

The one thing the tubes don't have is model interaction. Forums, diaries, webcam chats, personal pictures, autographed posters, used panties, fan dates etc...use that as an advantage.

Yes and exactly because they suck half of the Alexa top 100 sites are tubes.

It's Genius, I bet shitloads of webmasters are taking them up on the 100 dollar offer and then coming in threads like this and "complaining". You don't put out lots of money for a skin and expect 0 results.

I endorse that 100%

Jew Cat: Affiliates have been bombing for 2 years. That's WHY these tubes are doing so well. Online adult has been dying before the recession. We used to be innovators but there hasn't been anything new in porn for years.

Affiliates aren't dying - they are almost dead. It now takes a SKILLED webmaster to make money. Luckily I know some. :)

Thanks everyone for the replies........

As I said in another thread - we can't support tubes / companies that steal from hardworking companies / webmasters....

They are crapping in our industry and house - would you normally let someone "shit" in your house?

I know I wouldn't

Peace

Todd

I'm not sure if you're referring to porn or the HerbalRevenue program you're running in your sig when you talk about skilled webmaster. If you're referring to the supplement business, that is FAR from dead. People are making huge bank on supplements and will continue to. You can't download dick pills and acai berries. So you cannot compare tangible goods to an easily ripped off digital product.

If you are reffering to porn affiliates, well, I'm sure there's a few old-timers kicking around who understand the traffic flow and still have a bankroll to throw at it and make good money. But yes, like you said affiliates are almost dead. SINKING SHIP! SINKING SHIP! People laugh with these "the sky is falling" posts. For adult affiliates IT FUCKING IS. There is very very little room for someone new to the game to come in and grow a reasonable business out of it. It took me fucking near 2 years of nonstop building to get making a few grand a month, and it just didn't seem worth it anymore, especially with such a bleak future ahead.

As long as there's no laws putting the pirates behind bars, any system put together will be compromised and the content shared. There's no saving it until the government steps in and starts punishing those who hide behind the loopholes. I don't think that is going to happen for a long time. The content producers andnetworks are feeling the heat, and in turn it's the affiliates who are going to pay as traffic generation goes more and more inhouse at the networks. Look at who owns most of these big tubes. Surprise! The networks!

I don't see much of a future at all for fulltime adult affiliates, and I only see things getting worse. First it will be the beermoney webmasters who drop. Then the fulltime working joe type webmasters will drop to beermoney webmaster status, at which point they will probably say fuck it and go back to getting a real job. Which will leave only a small number of large well established affiliates left, and who knows how long they will hold on. Maybe things will cycle around and the adult affiliate business will come around, but it's definitely going to be too long a cycle for anyone midlevel and down to survive.

I saw it coming a long time ago, and about a year ago I finally broke the denial and admitted it to myself, there's no future as an adult affiliate for you. So now I'm working with mainstream stuff and enjoying what I do. It's a slightly different world, but it feels more stable. I really wish I had the 2 years I put into adult back and put towards mainstream, I can tell you that much :1orglaugh

All in all it boils down to one thing, the adult industry needs to get the law on it's side...

Just forgot to drop this, because maybe there's something I'm missing here you could clear up for me. It's regarding your statement that "Affiliates have been bombing for 2 years. That's WHY these tubes are doing so well."

I don't really understand how affiliate failure is the reason for tubes getting huge. That statement makes no sense to me. The tube success blueprint is common sense. Give away other people's full length productions for free!

Can i get some clarification on that?

Our streams don't buffer, nor do many of the other companies running streaming the right way. I've had people check our streams in Costa Rica, in Europe, in Canada, South America etc all on slower connections like 3000 down and 128 up and they didn't buffer or glitch for them. Just because you had bad experience with some companies that didn't have their streaming setup correctly doesn't mean all streaming just buffers constantly.

Ya afterall that Youtube place really lost its popularity with its whole "streaming" concept. I mean who even goes on that site with all the buffering? You'd think that people would surely have demanded that place goto a downloadable model so people could watch those videos at their own convenience offline right?


Tell you what find me some non streaming download video sites with higher alexa rankings than this that are based off video.



Youtube.com
4
Alexa Traffic Rank

Pornhub.com
50
Alexa Traffic Rank

tube8.com
71
Alexa Traffic Rank

hulu.com
247
Alexa Traffic Rank

Break.com
403
Alexa Traffic Rank

Veoh.com
222
Alexa Traffic Rank

DailyMotion.com
76
Alexa Traffic Rank

Vimeo.com
461
Alexa Traffic Rank


We'll be waiting patiently for your results... :1orglaugh

Well, you've been saying it forever, and if DWB is on with what he was sayign earlier it sounds like people are finally coming around tot he idea and getting ready to implement it with big networks. I hope it does, and I hope it works. For the stability of the industry, and it would be kind of amusing to see you with some real firepower to rub in the faces of the sticky haters... lol...

Have a read on the big huge thread about it from a few weeks ago and you'll get a better feel for it. I usually have no less than 3 people hit me up on business days asking about switching over. And I won't name the companies but a lot of them you wouldn't think they would be hitting up dumb silly sticky... lol

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh thats what i think about you protecting your content with streaming...

if a person wants your content bad enough, they can get it and it doesnt matter what kind of streaming/encoding protection you use...:2 cents:

If people can't download it, they can't post it. That's an absolute truth - you can't
steal or post what you can't download. Now does that have anything at all to
do with Flash video or other embedded video? No. The other day a friend wanted
a Youtube video converted to to .mpg file. It took me all of two minutes to check
Google to see how to save a Flash video, download the software, and have it done.
People don't seem to understand that in order to play a Flash or other embedded video,
the browser has to download it. In order to allow the user to rewind and to re-play
the video, Flash saves the video to the hard drive. There are then freely available
programs which find that video that Flash saved and move it wherever the punter
wants it.

So we know two things - they can't post something you don't let them download,
and "streaming" IS downloading, so streaming doesn't change a thing.

There are several things you can do to reduce content theft and having your content
all over the tubes. One of those is based on the fact that they can't post what they
don't download. The tube site owners especially, and also the other 10% of rippers
who steal 90% of the content don't hassle with logging in to your site to get one
fucking video. They come to get EVERYTHING, if you have a small to medium sized
site, or two get HUNDREDS of videos from a mega site. Go spend an hour on the
forums where these guys hang out and you'll find they download IN BULK. In a six
hour period they might download videos totalling 30-50 hours of video. That makes it
real fucking easy to tell the difference between these guys and the legit surfers.
Take a look at this graph is the top twelve users for a typical site:

http://bettercgi.com/throttlebox/man...imits/3day.gif

The top 12 users downloaded between .7GB and 4.7 GB, except for one guy who did
20GB. He downloaded more than the next top ten users COMBINED. Who do you
think is grabbing all your shit to post on the tubes?

Looking at the graph, you can see that on that site setting a limit of about 6GB
wouldn't have any effect at all on any legitimate user, but would stop the the
bad guys from doing what they want to do. Of course you can actually do a little
better than that simplistic approach, so we do something a little more sophisticated:
http://www.bettercgi.com/throttlebox...s/ruleEdit.png

Ya and there is no way you could stop someone if they REALLY wanted to break into your house, really wanted to steal your car, really wanted to set you on fire either. lol

Don't know how many times it needs to be said. You can't STOP it, but you can slow it, disuade users from doing it, offer them a higher quality product to watch for streaming, lower res product large watermark for downloadable.

Since I already know you posted about trying to upload stuff to tube8 etc you already know they don't allow uploads with watermarks unless you pay them.

Do I really need to spell this out? lol :1orglaugh

my point is.. the box has been opened... people think its ok to steal now and thats not going to change..

the real solution to this problem has and always will be litigation... :2 cents:

What I do streams in my members area and you can NOT download it. We have tried every currently available way and it can't be done. Not even Replay Media can get it. So you are "right" about simple streaming. DEAD WRONG about other ways to stream that DO stop downloading.

Also google RMTP and RMTPE, you'll know that there are streams that don't buffer and down't download to your computer.

How is retention on the sites that don't offer any downloads, and don't use the typical methods of streaming?

:2 cents:

Completely dependent on the type of content you have. Are you a "mega-site" with generic content that you buy from content providers? Then you are fucked as it won't matter if you try and protect your content...somebody else has already uploaded it to torrents and tubes.

Do you shoot your own exclusive content and have some creativity and a market for the niche you are selling? Then the retention is great! Matter of fact it's the BEST because they need to stay a member to see the content.

But as I said in an older thread...I DO offer them a download version of every scene. Only thing is...the downloadable version is a small size and a small bit rate and is over watermarked. It's just fine for a true member to keep on his hard drive. But it's too small to be taken seriously on a torrent. And the bit rate is low enough that if it's uploaded to a tube site and re-encoded it will look like holy hell.

So the members of claudia-marie.com get a fast, instantly playing, able to move anywhere in the movie and stream instantly without downloading high res streaming vid. And they get a lower quality downloadable version if they so desire it. But even though I offer the download...I'm finding as time goes by less and less people actually do download. Why would they? Downloading sucks and takes time.

I can't speak from any experience, but I can chime this in. It might hurt a site now to do it as far as retention goes. Maybe. But if everyone is doing it, what option does the surfer have after a while? If he has seen all that there is to offer for free, and wants new porn continuously. He's gonna have to keep rebilling. What other options are there?

I do agree that that it WILL be cracked though, within a year or two of that the process will have been made easy enough for the common webgeek to perform and the free flow of pirated video will carry on again. It WILL happen, but why use that as an excuse not to get on with the latest in security and keep your ass back in the stoneage? Someone on the industry side will come up with a solution again.Content producers need to start adopting these measures quicker. I first heard this whole streaming video debate way back when I started promoting, and finally people are starting to seriously talk about taking it on now. This should have been massive news at the conferences, and the subject of site security should be at the forefront of the panels and conventions so the industry as a whole can carry on with the latest in security trends. For the benefit of everyone.

But again, good luck with that. Organizing anything int his industry seems to be like herding cats...

He does this drive by post in a lot of these threads, and when called on it never replies again. Yes he did a google on how to "download flash videos" lol. Sorry I know he is good at what he does, but he is so far off on his knowledge of protected streaming videos.

Ok you guys are all smarter than me, but there is one issue that I have not seen mentioned yet. (although I have not read in entirety every single post on the subject today)

Thankfully I actually think what you have seen today represents a considerable milestone in the painful path that the whole of the content production industry has recently had the misfortune to tread.

Today the tubes in question have gone cap in hand to GFY.

Do you think they came here to get humiliated because their coffers are bursting with ad revenue ?

Or do you think the pre-pay ad buyers are getting thin on the ground ?

Lets face it all that traffic? why not simply sign up to the best converting sponsors and make a fortune ? Why not pre sell to cams and dating ?

They are here today trying to sell their shitty traffic because no-one else is buying. They are here today in the one place where they are 100% hated because they are at the end of the road.

And if a few GFY halfwits step in and spend money on that traffic, are these halfwits running programs that are so cunningly devised that they will convert this freeloader traffic ?

Time to celebrate. Today is a good day. The noise of hammers beating nails into caskets is deafening.

Yup cat is out of the bag.. well some of the cats... so may as well let all the cats out of the bag right? Shoo cats shoo... get on now.... :winkwink: May as well switch to a non member model and throw up some dating and webcam ads... :1orglaugh

I've never paid a dime to tubes and still manage to get free traffic from them. ;) Thats what everyone needs to be doing. Its like any other traffic source ... find a way to exploit it for your own needs. lol

The beauty of it is that once you make the decision to take matters into your own hands...then you feel free. And that freedom from fear allows you to think more clearly. And it made me realize that "yes" they will find a way...and then I realized that then we will find a way to stop that too.

I agree with you. Why just let yourself be destroyed? Just because maybe they might someday figure a way to break into your stuff?

There are a lot of smart guys out there who figured out ways to steal shit. But guess what...there are a lot of really smart guys that can stop 'em too.

I'm not asking about retention in general. I'm curious about retention pre-switch to post-switch, assuming you switched to a non-standard streaming only model. You offer downloads so you can't really compare then. Do you know of any medium to large sites that have made the switch and retention didn't drop?

When I first went streaming...I went streaming only. PROTECTED streaming. I immediately had about 20 members write me cursing me out and they quit.

I was scared to death...I thought I had really fucked up.

But then...that was it. Everybody else was perfectly happy.

And after a couple of months of rebills going good and new sales still strong, I still had a couple of thousand members. No drop in numbers of rebills or new sales.

I then realized that those 20 that went off on me in the beginning...were probably the motherfuckers who were stealing my shit to begin with.