... your stance is that if we're nice.. they'll be nice.

that's the "we cant torture logic"

so do we need to take a long hard look at what those same people do to aid workers? medical personnel trying to help? teachers?

but you're right... SURELY they will follow the Geneva Conventions when they capture a soldier... well... forgetting all the ones they've murdered/beheaded so far, of course! i mean... lets be fair to all you sorry fucking sniveling pussies out there who just want to give cold blooded, psychopathic murderers a chance. god forbid we deprive someone of sleep or pour water on them... after all, that's "torture"

I always thought we were a nation of laws and that we were supposed to abide by the laws we set. Silly me, I guess the end justifies the means, even if the means frequently extract fake info.

I say we just bomb every country except Canada until they are nothing but 1 big Taco Bell parking lot. Then we'll enslave all the Canadians as Taco Bell employees.


I agree with everything Pleasurepays says.

my question was rather simple, you didnt answer it..


my stand is you watch too much 24... Many experts will say that torture is worthless no matter what you can imagine sitting in your computer chair... Torture is often use to get false confessions to suit an agenda or just mislead (ex. wmds, link between sadam and al quaida) , or just get bs admission of guilt.. But again, i ask, whats the difference between an islamic psychopath kidnapping someone and an american psychopath or terrorist..? If there is, there will be none in a few years... Whats the term for american terrorist nowadays? Extreme right wingers ..? lol

I have been to the SERE C-Level High Risk course iin 1987 among many other course's and what he says is true. I back that up...BTW when did you go KrisH? If not then STFU... :thumbsup

I agree with everything he says as well, and have had some long discussions with him about this.

And, if more North American people don't start taking notice to everything going on around them they are going to wonder what happened in 10 years when it's mandatory for all women to wear a hijab in the new Islamica "formerly America"

And those same idiots scream, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO SOMETHING, when shit hits the fan. Little realizing all the shit that gets stopped before it ever leads to anything and gets brought to the publics attention.

See more below...

I don't get this whole arguement other than it is just another pussification and pacification of bleeding heart Americans where you can no longer discipline your children or even yell at them or even ground them, where kids are never taught to lose in anything because the trauma is too much or leave no kid behind bullshit, etc.

When we are at war with someone what difference does it make if they are tortured when our soldiers are armed to the teeth and killing as many of them as they can find out on the battlefield?

And if you want to go on and on about our corrupt government and the corrupt agendas, then fucking well get off your ass and do something about.

These people didn't get into office all on their own, the public fucking well put them there and if they don't like the outcomes maybe they should start getting off their couches, from in front of their reality tv, put down the bag of chips, step away from the computer or video games or whatever else device people use to ignore everything else around them and fucking do something about it instead of playing the dumb as fuck, I know all the answers sitting from behind my keyboard, undereducated idiots with no more motivation than to fucking whine and play morality police so they can feel better about their insignificant lives.

</rant>

I don't take any position one way or another regarding any of these
techniques, but I don't think it's important to keep the facts straight.
Here's the actual procedure. Note that it's the shoulder blades, not
the head, which are supposed to contact a flexible false wall, so the
claim of "slamming their head against the wall" is a lie.

Oh my god. I'm not even gay... But that just made me want to hump you.

I agree with the anti pussy america folks. Torture is ugly and not nice and I wish it was something that wasn't necessary. I also wish that war didn't exist and everyone was happy as a pig in shit with no problems.

But the real world just isn't that way. I don't think American forces should just torture every poor son of a bitch they bring in. I'm sure they don't, and I'm sure REAL torture/hardcore interrogation is used when its really necessary. If some poor bastard gets picked up and fucked up unjustly - first, i doubt that person is going to be completely innocent. second, it sucks, but fuck it. Shit needs to get done. We are handing our country and our values over to a bunch of pussies. Terrorists use our own pussy ass PC bullshit against us. We just keep making ourselves weaker.

Like I said, wish it all wasn't so, but its the way it is.

Yeah yeah, and if you're hungry enough, you're damn right you're gonna steal food to keep your family fed. I've heard all the justifications for breaking the law, I should've stuck to my "it's not worth it" from the start of the thread.

I'm not arguing for one political party or the other. If people of any political flavor are elected in good faith and then break a law, they should have to deal with the consequences. Now, feel free to make the sentence lenient if there was actually a reasonable reason for breaking that law. But if someone does the crime, they need to do the time.

But I don't give one shit about "we are at war" yada yada. Laws are laws, and if that makes me a pussy man in your eyes, well, I'll just have to figure out some to get over that. Let me think about it for a sec.

You completely missed part of the points I was making... How is it we are on this retarded anti-torture band wagon when our soldiers are killing them as fast or wherever they can find them.

Last time I checked murder was illegal too. But it is a war and certain concessions get made. And from everything that has come out I don't exactly see anything heinous in their methods. It isn't like we are electrocuting them, or pulling teeth or fingernails out, or cutting off body parts, etc.

At least if they are being tortured they still get to breathe and live.

Your right on... I went in 1987 to the C-Level High Risk course..As you said that is just a small part of what is done... :thumbsup

No, that is outsourced to Egypt, Morocco, Afghanistan ..... or done in your black sites ....


***** Rendition ******

Some of you people have no fucking idea what you are talking about.. You sit behind your little computers and complain about those of us who are out there keeping your fat lazy stupid ass safe here in America.. The thing that gets my blood boiling is when people talk about things they know nothing about.. Don't get me wrong I do respect your right to express your concerns and views after all this is America..I am not saying I am proud of some of the things that I have done to people we have captured but when you must have information to save American lives I will do and have done ANYTHING to get that out of them..Then most of the time they get to meet their god a few minutes later...

You would have been high in the food chain of the Nazis ....

AIRBORNE :thumbsup

"All The Way" "RLTW" :thumbsup:thumbsup and a Z snap....LOL

thats the first i have heard of this theory , interesting..


probably something so dangerous some of them are now working on golf courses in the bahamas. Thats generally what i do with high value detainees. I beat the shit out of them then send them to work on a golf course in the bahamas.


exactly, if the information was a matter of life or death why are they detaining them for year with no charges !!



:thumbsup another good theory !! can i quote that last part to you ?


i hope nobody's kids get kidnapped :) so should everyone. But haphazardly beating the shit out of people prob won't help things either.. Thats why we have laws and procedures, if they aren't fast enough or aren't working , fix them. Its ridiculous to break the law to enforce the law, we know that doesn't work. It sure hasn't so far..

Yep.

When I was in the Marines, straight up infantry, when "captured" as a "POW" by the other team, we were treated like POWS. This meant spending a lot of time on our knees, hands tied behind our back, and a sack over our heads - all of this outside in 110 degree weather. Their job was to break us, and our job was to resist. Any time we resisted, it meant a swift boot to the back. It's pretty fucking painful when your on your knees, hands tied behind your back, can't see, and someone kicks you over. And over and over again.

It is my understanding that the Attorney General has begun an investigation to determine if any laws were broken...maybe you can assist him and identify for him what specific law/laws were broken.

STFU youself - "theking" is a notorious liar. He makes up shit on a daily basic to try and induce the selfimage he holds of himself, onto others. And when he wants to back up his own lies, he quotes back to his previous lies.

So REALLY - STFU

Like I asked you "When did you go to the course?" I don't care two shits if he is as you say "a liar" He is right about the course instruction...I know firsthand...You however do not know what you are talking about so.....FUCK YOU!.... :321GFY

STFU moron. He looked it up on google. Anyone who watch TV these days know SOME of what SERE training includes. Even christopher hitchens tested it. The fact is, you idiots have - so far - only listed those parts the press hade discussed. None of you have mentioned those NOT disclosed to the press. So take your idiotic Internet HE-Man rhetoric and shove it

We dont call it SERE here in Europe, So I did not take the course. Even if we did, I would not have to go through it, because I did not fly combat missions. During my time in the US, we dident have to go through it either, because we were not a part of the US airforce.

Hey dickhead, the SERE C-Level course that I went to, some parts are classified..As I said He may have looked it up on the internet, I don't care...I just don't like people like you talking about things you don't know anything about...Your funny... :321GFY

definitely a lot of hate and fear in this thread...

Where did I say I was a Expert on SERE training? show me where I said that ? PLEASE!!!

What I said was "theking" is full of shit. I dont give a rats ass about what you think of me. It dont take a doctore to tell if a leg have been sowed on backwards

the worst part of these discussions is the misleading use of the word "torture" - a word which is associated with physical mutilation and extreme pain - being used to describe sleep deprivation or prolonged periods of standing or whatever.

a close second is the fact that everyone wants to decry all these methods of getting valuable intelligence information - yet no one has a solution. no one can present an alternative. i suppose we are all to believe that we can just ask Osama Bin Ladens second in command where he is and he'll just volunteer that information right? I suppose we can capture a bunch of islamic extremists with known ties to past terrorist attacks and just hang out wiht them and make friends with them and get them to roll over on everyone they know, every organization, every person of importance, every place where they train and every future planned attack they are aware of... since "torture doesn't work" - i guess we'll have to just give them fruit baskets and roses and hope for the best.

even dumber is a bunch of people denouncing "torture" as "not working" - when its clearly not done for fun.

a bunch of retarded fucking idiots denouncing methods for getting time sensitive information from people as "not working" but of course not ONE SINGLE PERSON has ever thought to ask

"wait a minute, what information was gathered this way"

"how do we honestly measure the pluses and minuses of each technique"

"how many lives were saved"

"how many known terrorist leaders were captured as a result.

"how many attacks were disrupted as a result"

and why? because you don't fucking care about safety and security and the issues. you don't care about the violent/volatile world world around you, filled with people who want to murder you and your family because you don't pray 5 times a day to allah. these people are coming for you all over the globe. they are killing you. and what do you propose to do about it? nothing. you object to everything. you are just a ultra liberal left wing pussy living in a utopia that only exists in your mind... and in a fantasy world where the worlds most violent psychopaths, murderers, terrorists and brutal dictators "just need to be understood" ... and you're so fucking out of touch with reality, you think you're the only one that truly "gets it"

in the meantime, people are out there working FOR YOU. trying to PROTECT YOU. they are doing it in a world FULL of threats to YOU. a world full of people who continually openly declare their intention to KILL YOU.

and what is your response to them? "you're an asshole, fuck off"

what is your solution?

do nothing. cripple all law enforcement. tie everyones hands and prosecute everyone for crimes if you think they kept a known mass murderer up for 20 hours or more.

brilliant.

thank you for making the world more dangerous.

Are you fucking kidding me? people debate those topics day in an day out. Do you live in a cave next to the local Taliban leader or what?

really? they debate effective methods? seriously? all i hear is about what "CAN'T" or SHOULDN'T or SHOULDN'T HAVE been done. or what WAS over the line. All i hear is people bitching about water boarding and so on. all i hear are vicious accusations of horrible behavior and violations of human rights. i don't hear anything about solutions.

i've never heard anyone say "oh hey, this is the most effective way to extract time sensitive information from a suspect... which is why ALL these other methods are unnecessary"

i guessed i missed the part where all these viable and effective alternatives were offered up.

i just keep hearing a bunch of pussies bitch and moan about someones rights while they watch bombs in open air markets get detonated across the globe.

I think he means by any who are captured. and I happen to agree in this case. When they cut the guys head off on video I think it was time to stop the milk and cookies torture.

yes - as I said, have you been living under a rock?

Even the NY Times have published articels about the lack of result. Torture (or enhanced interrogation as I'm sure you want to call it) have not provided one single bit of usefull information.

Quite opposit. It have given a lot of "false negatives" or whatever you want to call it, when the prisoners (ohh, I forgot, they ar not prosoners - they are "detainees" because prisoners have rights) are forced to give out false information to stop the torture.

Even Dick Cheney had to admit, that the info they got from Abu Zubaydah was BEFORE the torture. Anything he said during the torture was bullshit and totally unusable information

+ . CIA peoples own words:
Quote:

During his interrogation under harsher techniques Abu Zubaydah confessed to a universe of alleged plots and plans, none of them have ever been corroborated or substantiated. A former intelligence official stated "[w]e spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms,"[3][57] and "sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms."

that's funny... when Obama launched his little torture attack and Cheny responded... he challenged the president to release what information was gained from the waterboarding or other "enhanced interrogation techniques"... which of course, they won't... because that doesn't serve their purpose and the info is classified so the accused cant' defend themselves anyway.


basically you're delusional thinking has reduced you to the position that the CIA and other nations intelligence agencies have no idea how to interrogate people and get information and they are totally ineffective.

of course, you don't have concrete facts because its all classified information, but you're pretty sure that's the case... which means that all intelligence agencies are just dumb and have no idea how to do their jobs... but you of course, the idiot slob on a porn forum does know how to interrogate Al Queda leadership with great results.

if only all these trained professionals would just listen to YOU and benefit from your vast experience and extensive knowledge on the subject. Or maybe the problem is that the CIA just doesn't read the NY Times.

retard

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

big fucking deal. why would that be different if he wasn't being pressured? you think he would just open up his heart and soul? how is this different from every other day in the CIA/FBI? you think intelligence is a perfect world full of perfect information?


exceptions to the rule, do not disprove the rule itself.

how much actionable intelligence was acquired? you don't know. how effective on the whole have these programs been? you don't know.. how many lives were saved as a result of these techniques? you don't know. how many terrorist plots were disrupted and prevented as a result of these techniques? you don't know.

how many attacks have there been in the USA post 911 - we know. ZERO

..and you are calling ME "delusional"? Read the facts moron, instead of beliving everything Fox tells you.

3 days ago, they started to release those docs
https://www.cia.gov/news-information...practices.html

Again - you are must have been living in a cave, or you are simpy just stupid.

FACT: Torture dont work. The only thing that works in Intelligence. Those are not my words, but the words out of agencies like CIA and FBI.

and you are the moron that belive you were saved because you tortured the detainees.

Read the FACTS. CIA and FBI said they GOT NO INFO FROM TORTURE

no my words - their words

you're right. i saw the big bold headline in the CIA doc that says "we don't know what we're doing.. but fat pornographers do and practices that have survived for 1000's of years don't work".

the stupidity of that view defies description.

"intelligence" is what works? where does this "intelligence" come from? from magical midgets riding unicorns in the sky? couldn't be that a large part of that intelligence comes from captured enemies who are pressured to talk?


:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

no - im quoting them dumbass. Their words; NONE, ZERO, NADA factual information came from torture. Not my words - THEIR WORDS

What part of "THEIR WORDS" dont you understand?

you're quoting them? you posted a link to a website. what part did you quote that said that "NO INFORMATION was obtained"

oh... you didn't. you couldn't.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh