ARS = Fucking Retards - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

12-06-2002, 02:40 PM

3 pages of finest entertainment

Fletch XXX · 12-06-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Just the Village Idiot
I thought you were going back to work...

its the old middle finger on your way out the door tactic.

BradShaw · 12-06-2002, 02:42 PM

Fly is a pain in the ass who is almost homeless. I would ignore him.

.:Frog:. · 12-06-2002, 02:45 PM

GatorB · 12-06-2002, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
Matt Borgman is so retarded -- he couldn't even see that "thefy.net" is a typo for a site titled "TheFLY"

TheFly is so retarded he can't spell his own 6 letter domain name correctly. TheFLy.net.......the name REALLY makes my horny. Actually I have pictures of Jeff Goldblum puking on donuts and getting his head blown off in my mind.

TheFLY · 12-06-2002, 02:48 PM

ARS "Application Reviewer" Employee Exam:

<img src="http://thefly.net/typo.gif">

The typo is:

A) In the Name
B) In the URL
C) None of the above
D) Delete the application

GatorB · 12-06-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
ARS "Application Reviewer" Employee Exam:

<img src="http://thefly.net/typo.gif">

The typo is:

A) In the Name
B) In the URL
C) None of the above
D) Delete the application

So what's you beef with ARS? It says CLEARLY that "IF NO WEBITE EXISTS your application will be DECLINED. There wasn't any http://thfy.net, so your application was declined. SIMPLE even a MORON could understand it. Why not just re-apply and stop being so stupid.

Greg N · 12-06-2002, 02:53 PM

Where is my picture? I feel left out ... I review applications too. Don't I get any love?

12-06-2002, 02:54 PM

with all necessary respect, you're making a complete fool out of yourself Fly. we got your point, ARS sucks anyway ... let's just drop it.

TheFLY · 12-06-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg N
Where is my picture? I feel left out ... I review applications too. Don't I get any love?

<img src="http://www.srprc.org/chimp/gallery/images/sfbr-chimp-paper02.jpg">
The tired and neglected ARS reviewer takes a break after a long day of shredding applications.

GatorB · 12-06-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox
with all necessary respect, you're making a complete fool out of yourself Fly. we got your point, ARS sucks anyway ... let's just drop it.

For my amusment, please list sponsors you feel don't suck.

12-06-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorB

For my amusment, please list sponsors you feel don't suck.

CFF, cuz I can get 200+ signups per hun listing.

JohnV · 12-06-2002, 03:01 PM

GatorB,

Come on dude leave Fly alone, he's back to work now....he even said so in this thread about an hour ago

web4x · 12-06-2002, 03:02 PM

3 months ago I did 7k each week with ARS with AOL traffic, they shut down my account.

They send me an email that they had to many declines with the trials I sent them and never paid the money they owe me.

I believe if you make more than 3k each week with them you are fucked up big time.

They will take the last payment and say "fuck off" we don't need your traffic.

SleazyDream · 12-06-2002, 03:10 PM

more sites should be approving sites rather than just dealing with anyone who can submit a fake name and send hitbot traffic or fake credit cards.

Good idea ARS.

Steve · 12-06-2002, 03:10 PM

I'm using www.thefly.net on all my future sponsor applications

I was gonna use www.thfy.net but it don't come in

Why do they even need a URL? Chances are the hits won't be coming from that site anyway.

MattK · 12-06-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
after
Matt B,
Matt M we should expect
Matt W to post and form
BMW team

I was MattK before these guys started posting

Matt M · 12-06-2002, 03:17 PM

Pipecrew,

That's not fair!!!! You got me on a bad hair day!!!

Thanks for the smile though.

GatorB · 12-06-2002, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Equinox

CFF, cuz I can get 200+ signups per hun listing.

CFF? Pardon my ignorance. and 200 signups on ONE listing? Come on.

SleazyDream · 12-06-2002, 03:21 PM

It's a good thing I don't run affiliate programs. If someone asked me questions like why I do what I do with my business my answer would be simply "cause I'm a asshole"

Just the Village Idiot · 12-06-2002, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorB

CFF? Pardon my ignorance. and 200 signups on ONE listing? Come on.

Ok!

GatorB · 12-06-2002, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Just the Village Idiot

Ok!

What's with the OK? I don't what CFF is. Chinese Friend Finder?

Just the Village Idiot · 12-06-2002, 03:38 PM

* double post *

Just the Village Idiot · 12-06-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GatorB

What's with the OK? I don't what CFF is. Chinese Friend Finder?

The ok was pardoning your ignorance as you requested.

CFF is collegefuckfest -- and they made the 200 sign ups off one hun listing claim...

Up to speed now?

seven · 12-06-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin
ARS invented shaving..

Hope they are not the one selling this software: http://64.38.235.153/dollars4all.jpg or are they they?

What's their current shaving % do you know?

Fletch XXX · 12-06-2002, 03:43 PM

CFF ROX.

Snake Doctor · 12-06-2002, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by web4x
3 months ago I did 7k each week with ARS with AOL traffic, they shut down my account.

They send me an email that they had to many declines with the trials I sent them and never paid the money they owe me.

I believe if you make more than 3k each week with them you are fucked up big time.

They will take the last payment and say "fuck off" we don't need your traffic.

Um excuse me genius, but if the trials you sent them were "declined" then they wouldn't have owed you anything, since "declined" means the surfers weren't able to sign up in the first place.

And ARS probably has more 5 figure a month webmasters than any other per sign up program, since they have more webmasters and do more business than any other webmaster program.

And don't you just love how everyone who bitches about a sponsor has NOTHING BUT search engine traffic?

tanco521 · 12-06-2002, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattB
TheFLY,

Every single application for an account with ARS is reviewed for ARS TOS compliance before it is approved. As I told you on the phone, I was reviewing your account, tried your site URL 5 or 6 times, and it kept coming up with a 404 error. You then gave me a URL that worked over the phone, so I told you to reapply and email me when you did so that I could be sure that you were approved quickly. How can I ensure that your site complies with our TOS if I cant even view it? If you want to send traffic to ARS, great. If not, then good luck in the future. If you have any questions or want to discuss this further, you have all my contact info.

MattB

This was a nice response...I like it when sponsors don't bash the possible affiliates on huge message boards.

MissWetPanties · 12-06-2002, 04:10 PM

All I can say is get a grip...

ARS has some of the best customer support ANYWHERE. MattB is extremely kind and helpful and he's very intelligent and patient. So is most of the rest of the staff.

As for them shaving... it's total crap. I and many people I know are using the BYOT tours and getting between 1:75 and 1:300 off TGP traffic and if they're shaving their real ratios must be DAMNED good. Jeez, with ratios like that I'd stick with them even if they DID shave! But they can't possibly be shaving with this kind of ratio of TGP traffic. And I'm talking hundreds of signups, here, not just sending 100 hits and getting a fluke signup.

With other programs I was barely making enough money to feed my kids beans and franks (literally). This month my bills and rent were ALL paid with my first week's ARS check and the rest of the month can go to charity and Christmas gifts. So if they're shaving, I say SHAVE ON! Because they're doing SOMETHING right!

Morgan · 12-06-2002, 04:15 PM

LOL, declined by ARS! hahaha. thats where i send all my newbies for adult webmaster school. None of them get declined>!

Sly_RJ · 12-06-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ganjasaurus
LOL, declined by ARS! hahaha. thats where i send all my newbies for adult webmaster school. None of them get declined>!

Hehe. When I first started I had a domain with a small 4 page free site. ARS accepted me.

Marc De · 12-06-2002, 04:20 PM

tanco521 - thanks, its called professionalism! Something many areas of this industry lacks.

TheFLY - I'm sorry you are SOOO angry. In fact, I would bet its safe to say that once you calm down, you'll look back on this and be ashamed. Acting like that gets you NO WHERE in life. You know the saying, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

All webmasters are important to us, including new ones. We spend a lot of time and resources getting new affiliates into our program. We, however, want responsible, professional webmasters and that is why we reviewing applications. If I knew your details I would reenter them in an application for you. We want to do business with everyone (legitimate) and I'm sorry if you choose not to do business with us over a small error and application process.

Anyways, I usually hear nothing but GOOD about our support staff and I continue to feel they do an excellent job. They showed their professional and respect for webmasters in this forum today.

picpile · 12-07-2002, 12:53 PM

what a retard. ars is good peoples

picpile · 12-07-2002, 01:03 PM

I was doing way over this amount and still got paid. and I know several people doing better then this and getting paid

Quote:

Originally posted by web4x
3 months ago I did 7k each week with ARS with AOL traffic, they shut down my account.

They send me an email that they had to many declines with the trials I sent them and never paid the money they owe me.

I believe if you make more than 3k each week with them you are fucked up big time.

They will take the last payment and say "fuck off" we don't need your traffic.

escorpio · 12-07-2002, 01:11 PM

File under "BFD"

TeraBabes · 12-07-2002, 01:38 PM

This thread is funny.

And to think, I nearly missed it.

SykkBoy · 12-07-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ganjasaurus
LOL, declined by ARS! hahaha. thats where i send all my newbies for adult webmaster school. None of them get declined>!

yeah, because they can probably fill out a fucking application the right way ;)

TheFLY · 12-07-2002, 02:46 PM

I love this thread. Now all the ARS goons are back on Day #2 to capitalize on free exposure ;)

Go team

TheFLY · 12-07-2002, 02:50 PM

Give it up.

ARS is bloated.

Your employees are getting fat and lazy -- you can't even correct simple typos without hitting the delete button. What happened to working for your money?

You want traffic? Fucking earn it.

Marc De · 12-07-2002, 03:13 PM

theFLY - we do earn it and work for it. We pay top dollar per sign up and we offer lots of great incentives (like the ONLY webmaster program to offer Health Insurance to its affiliates in the US) and we invented the rewards systems that are immitated by other programs.

Also, not one ARS employee has posted since yesterday. I was the last to post and the thread died for hours. Obviously you are STILL very bitter about something so simple.

too bad...

Hot Tropical Babes · 12-07-2002, 03:32 PM

Marc, maybe you need to offer the "hooked on phonix" plan for some of these webmasters.

C'mon how hard is it to fill out your own url right?

TheFLY · 12-07-2002, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot Tropical Babes
Marc, maybe you need to offer the "hooked on phonix" plan for some of these webmasters.

C'mon how hard is it to fill out your own url right?

Before you challenge superior intelligence, learn to spell "phonics" retard.

crack · 12-07-2002, 04:33 PM

I think they convert great and never shave either:

pornJester · 12-07-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
this thread calls for a....

lol, what a great pic

Marc De · 12-07-2002, 08:20 PM

crack - nice screen shot? for how many days are those stats taken from? Do you realize that we just recently started counting PIS? That could be months of hits... I can also post screen shots of stats like

Raw: 63725 Unique: 55050 Join: 26372 PIS: 1087 Sales: 105 Conversion: 1:524

No not PURE SE traffic (like it seems so so many people SEEM to deal in) but PURE TGP traffic :D

WiredGuy · 12-07-2002, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc De
TheFLY - I'm sorry you are SOOO angry. In fact, I would bet its safe to say that once you calm down, you'll look back on this and be ashamed. Acting like that gets you NO WHERE in life. You know the saying, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

All webmasters are important to us, including new ones. We spend a lot of time and resources getting new affiliates into our program. We, however, want responsible, professional webmasters and that is why we reviewing applications. If I knew your details I would reenter them in an application for you. We want to do business with everyone (legitimate) and I'm sorry if you choose not to do business with us over a small error and application process.

Anyways, I usually hear nothing but GOOD about our support staff and I continue to feel they do an excellent job. They showed their professional and respect for webmasters in this forum today.

While I do reserve my comments on ARS, I have had a horrible experience with your company. I won't publicly post my grievances since I do believe in a certain level of professionalism but I do have to comment that your customer support staff needs a serious level of improvement. About a year and a half ago all my emails were not replied to and I even had to resort to getting a contact person from Traffic Cash Gold to contact Toolz about a copyright issue against another webmaster. The level of service I received was basically your staff turned a blind eye to my problem and as a result, I refuse to do business with ARS.

Because of this, ARS has lost thousands of signups that went to Traffic Cash because they promptly handled my problem with the webmaster I was disputing against. To this very day the problem remains unresolved and I have had to take other measures to enforce our copyrights.

Regardless, I don't believe in bashing a company in a forum like this so I'll end this post by saying that ARS is a good company to do business with based on the conversions I had with you last year but your customer service is in serious need of improvement, especially in webmaster to webmaster disputes. Your staff's performance lost you thousands of signups which worked out very well for Traffic Cash.

WG

seven · 12-07-2002, 08:53 PM

Know what.. I don't like ARS.. their stats go bizzare for me all the time like when I just start to give a site a good push I see excellent results then when I get all happy and push some more the conversion would drop dead. But that's besides the point 0:5362 proves nothing. I have some webmasters do 1:70 with my own paysite some do 1:1000 or even worse. I could also pull a stats worse than 0:5362 for many of yours ever so favorite CFF

For many popular epoch run sites you don't even know what your conversion is really like. So buzz it man! Go work on your advertising methods so your conversion gets better. If it still doesn't get beter then just pick another proggy and quit whining.

I hate to bump this thread again cos this post is totally redundant now.. too long a thread over a minor dispute already

But if i don't The Fly sure will so.. here we go.

TheFLY · 12-07-2002, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seven
Know what.. I don't like ARS.. their stats go bizzare for me all the time like when I just start to give a site a good push I see excellent results then when I get all happy and push some more the conversion would drop dead.

What's so fucking bizarre about that? That's what always happens.

Just the Village Idiot · 12-07-2002, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY

What's so fucking bizarre about that? That's what always happens.

Weren't you declined??? How would you know???

TheFLY · 12-07-2002, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Just the Village Idiot

Weren't you declined??? How would you know???

My integrity speaks for itself, dipshit.

Go sit back in the sidelines. Maybe you should change your name to "The Heckler"... since that seems all you are capable of.

12-06-2002, 02:42 PM	#103
BradShaw Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KB's trailer Posts: 7,840	Fly is a pain in the ass who is almost homeless. I would ignore him. __________________ Sig too big http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.com

12-06-2002, 02:45 PM	#104
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	LOL __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

12-06-2002, 02:48 PM	#106
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	<font size=+2>ARS "Application Reviewer" Employee Exam:</font> <img src="http://thefly.net/typo.gif"> The typo is: A) In the Name B) In the URL C) None of the above D) Delete the application

12-06-2002, 03:10 PM	#115
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	more sites should be approving sites rather than just dealing with anyone who can submit a fake name and send hitbot traffic or fake credit cards. Good idea ARS. __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

12-06-2002, 03:21 PM	#120
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	It's a good thing I don't run affiliate programs. If someone asked me questions like why I do what I do with my business my answer would be simply "cause I'm a asshole" __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

12-06-2002, 02:40 PM	#101
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	3 pages of finest entertainment

12-06-2002, 02:53 PM	#108
Greg N Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cyn City Posts: 564	Where is my picture? I feel left out ... I review applications too. Don't I get any love?

12-06-2002, 02:54 PM	#109
X37375787 Guest Posts: n/a	with all necessary respect, you're making a complete fool out of yourself Fly. we got your point, ARS sucks anyway ... let's just drop it.

12-06-2002, 03:01 PM	#113
JohnV Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: So. Cal Posts: 928	GatorB, Come on dude leave Fly alone, he's back to work now....he even said so in this thread about an hour ago

12-06-2002, 03:02 PM	#114
web4x Will everyone please review my newest site? Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 841	3 months ago I did 7k each week with ARS with AOL traffic, they shut down my account. They send me an email that they had to many declines with the trials I sent them and never paid the money they owe me. I believe if you make more than 3k each week with them you are fucked up big time. They will take the last payment and say "fuck off" we don't need your traffic.

12-06-2002, 03:10 PM	#116
Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,894	I'm using www.thefly.net on all my future sponsor applications I was gonna use www.thfy.net but it don't come in Why do they even need a URL? Chances are the hits won't be coming from that site anyway.

12-06-2002, 03:17 PM	#118
Matt M Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Beach Posts: 738	Pipecrew, That's not fair!!!! You got me on a bad hair day!!! Thanks for the smile though.

12-06-2002, 03:38 PM	#123
Just the Village Idiot Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 581	* double post * __________________ <a href="http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=921196-0000&PA=337888&HTML=http://www.wow18cash.com/"> We may as well just give this fucking $$$ away!</a> Last edited by Just the Village Idiot; 12-06-2002 at 03:45 PM..

12-06-2002, 03:43 PM	#126
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	CFF ROX. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

12-06-2002, 04:10 PM	#129
MissWetPanties Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 116	All I can say is get a grip... ARS has some of the best customer support ANYWHERE. MattB is extremely kind and helpful and he's very intelligent and patient. So is most of the rest of the staff. As for them shaving... it's total crap. I and many people I know are using the BYOT tours and getting between 1:75 and 1:300 off TGP traffic and if they're shaving their real ratios must be DAMNED good. Jeez, with ratios like that I'd stick with them even if they DID shave! But they can't possibly be shaving with this kind of ratio of TGP traffic. And I'm talking hundreds of signups, here, not just sending 100 hits and getting a fluke signup. With other programs I was barely making enough money to feed my kids beans and franks (literally). This month my bills and rent were ALL paid with my first week's ARS check and the rest of the month can go to charity and Christmas gifts. So if they're shaving, I say SHAVE ON! Because they're doing SOMETHING right!

12-06-2002, 04:15 PM	#130
Morgan Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Corona Del Mar, CA Posts: 10,520	LOL, declined by ARS! hahaha. thats where i send all my newbies for adult webmaster school. None of them get declined>! __________________ PornstarPlatinum.com \| TransErotica.com

12-06-2002, 04:20 PM	#132
Marc De Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 632	tanco521 - thanks, its called professionalism! Something many areas of this industry lacks. TheFLY - I'm sorry you are SOOO angry. In fact, I would bet its safe to say that once you calm down, you'll look back on this and be ashamed. Acting like that gets you NO WHERE in life. You know the saying, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. All webmasters are important to us, including new ones. We spend a lot of time and resources getting new affiliates into our program. We, however, want responsible, professional webmasters and that is why we reviewing applications. If I knew your details I would reenter them in an application for you. We want to do business with everyone (legitimate) and I'm sorry if you choose not to do business with us over a small error and application process. Anyways, I usually hear nothing but GOOD about our support staff and I continue to feel they do an excellent job. They showed their professional and respect for webmasters in this forum today.

12-07-2002, 12:53 PM	#133
picpile Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 734	what a retard. ars is good peoples

12-07-2002, 01:11 PM	#135
escorpio I love to racism, bro! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA! USA! USA! Posts: 23,364	File under "BFD"

12-07-2002, 01:38 PM	#136
TeraBabes Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Under Water Posts: 2,067	This thread is funny. And to think, I nearly missed it. __________________ This place is too big.

12-07-2002, 02:46 PM	#138
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	I love this thread. Now all the ARS goons are back on Day #2 to capitalize on free exposure ;) Go team

12-07-2002, 02:50 PM	#139
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	Give it up. ARS is bloated. Your employees are getting fat and lazy -- you can't even correct simple typos without hitting the delete button. What happened to working for your money? You want traffic? Fucking earn it.

12-07-2002, 03:13 PM	#140
Marc De Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 632	theFLY - we do earn it and work for it. We pay top dollar per sign up and we offer lots of great incentives (like the ONLY webmaster program to offer Health Insurance to its affiliates in the US) and we invented the rewards systems that are immitated by other programs. Also, not one ARS employee has posted since yesterday. I was the last to post and the thread died for hours. Obviously you are STILL very bitter about something so simple. too bad...

12-07-2002, 03:32 PM	#141
Hot Tropical Babes Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 3,014	Marc, maybe you need to offer the "hooked on phonix" plan for some of these webmasters. C'mon how hard is it to fill out your own url right? __________________ <BR> Trade with Big Tits TGP Trade with Titman

12-07-2002, 04:33 PM	#143
crack Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 100	I think they convert great and never shave either: __________________ There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.

12-07-2002, 08:20 PM	#145
Marc De Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 632	crack - nice screen shot? for how many days are those stats taken from? Do you realize that we just recently started counting PIS? That could be months of hits... I can also post screen shots of stats like Raw: 63725 Unique: 55050 Join: 26372 PIS: 1087 Sales: 105 Conversion: 1:524 No not PURE SE traffic (like it seems so so many people SEEM to deal in) but PURE TGP traffic :D

12-07-2002, 08:53 PM	#147
seven Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: LaLa Land Posts: 2,697	Know what.. I don't like ARS.. their stats go bizzare for me all the time like when I just start to give a site a good push I see excellent results then when I get all happy and push some more the conversion would drop dead. But that's besides the point 0:5362 proves nothing. I have some webmasters do 1:70 with my own paysite some do 1:1000 or even worse. I could also pull a stats worse than 0:5362 for many of yours ever so favorite CFF For many popular epoch run sites you don't even know what your conversion is really like. So buzz it man! Go work on your advertising methods so your conversion gets better. If it still doesn't get beter then just pick another proggy and quit whining. I hate to bump this thread again cos this post is totally redundant now.. too long a thread over a minor dispute already But if i don't The Fly sure will so.. here we go. __________________ Toy Rev Rouge Web Design