A hosting question? - GoFuckYourself.com

Probono · 12-04-2002, 07:46 PM

After reading thread after thread about hosting issues I need to ask this.

If you have your own server or can justify buying one why don't you just colocate in a tier one provider? Rent rack space, buy bandwidth and what ever level of support your are willing to pay for. It works for us and has for years, if we are down for 5 minutes I call and get an answer. I doubt we have been down for an accumulated hour in the past year.

Why pay marked up prices for inferior support that you are upset about?

NO I am not selling hosting.

picindex · 12-04-2002, 10:18 PM

Getting a Dedicated Server:

- you don't have to pay for the hardware
- if you are using a real host failed hardware should be replaced in 2 hours.
- upgrades can usually be done in a matter of minutes not hours or days.
- if your host starts to flake you can get another server elsewhere and transfer the sites over and cut them over with minimal downtime.
- plus a ton of other things I'm too tired to list.

Colo a server:

- you own the server
- you have "complete full" control over the hardware
- upgrades and shit can be done cheaper but you got to buy the additional parts, drive down there, and install them rather then just sending an email or picking up the phone.
- real colo facilities (UUNet, Qwest, C&W (Exodus), etc., etc.,) usually never go down and you can get single server space cheaper.

Personally I co-locate my own servers but I have a TON of hardware for my previous hosting business that I have sold. If I did not have the hardware already I would have never done the colo option ? dedicated all the way!

dnsmonster · 12-05-2002, 12:00 AM

If you decide to do such thing, bring your servers to me. I have 40 racks to fill up.

OzKaNoz · 12-05-2002, 12:03 AM

Good Info

Oz

L0stMind · 12-05-2002, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by picindex
Getting a Dedicated Server:

- you don't have to pay for the hardware
- if you are using a real host failed hardware should be replaced in 2 hours.
- upgrades can usually be done in a matter of minutes not hours or days.
- if your host starts to flake you can get another server elsewhere and transfer the sites over and cut them over with minimal downtime.
- plus a ton of other things I'm too tired to list.

Colo a server:

- you own the server
- you have "complete full" control over the hardware
- upgrades and shit can be done cheaper but you got to buy the additional parts, drive down there, and install them rather then just sending an email or picking up the phone.
- real colo facilities (UUNet, Qwest, C&W (Exodus), etc., etc.,) usually never go down and you can get single server space cheaper.

Personally I co-locate my own servers but I have a TON of hardware for my previous hosting business that I have sold. If I did not have the hardware already I would have never done the colo option ? dedicated all the way!

Everything above is true.

Location can be one problem...

Support can be another... the bulk of webmasters (yes, even the succesful ones!) do not know shit about operating a webserver and frankly don't care to learn.

Also, for the vast majority of webmasters it is simply MUCH cheaper to buy bandwidth thru a hosting company instead of going thru a Tier1 provider. Because a Tier1 provider won't drop ridiculously cheap hosting to Joe Blow's XXX site for 256kbps average throughput.

Brad Mitchell · 12-05-2002, 12:25 AM

The AVERAGE webmaster uses less than 1 megabit of sustained bandwidth. For them to get that through a hosting company is cheap... to enter into a contract with a colo and tier 1 bandwidth supplier, they'd be looking at a $500-1000 a month plus setup, hardware, two 1 year contracts... and all the headache.

Brad

deniska · 12-05-2002, 12:53 AM

The issue of support comes in to play. Tier1 colo remote hands do exist (in some places) but these people are totally clueless and don't know anything about your business. Unless you ask them to hit a reboot switch, they are capable of doing that. Plus remote hands aren't cheap. Why would you want to pay someone $75/hour who doesn't know what they are doing. Also do you think they are going to be monitoring your servers for downtime? Constant trips to the datacenter are annoying and the list goes on. Its not easy and definitely not for everyone. This is a business why not put it in hands of a professional company that will manage it for you. With a good hosting company your servers are monitored 24 hours a day with people standing on site just in case something goes wrong. Its nice to have support you cant count on that knows your business. Sure beats paying $75/hour to some clue less noc monkey. Colocating With a Tier1 also ties you to connectivity with their backbone. A hosting company can offer you redundant connections to multiple tier1's. All carriers have problems, scheduled maintenance and so on. Don't matter if you are on Verio or Cogent. Let nice forget about PRICE

L0stMind · 12-05-2002, 01:02 AM

I LOVE remote hands...

we used to have servers in san jose and ny...

convo's would be like this:

remote hands: yah, I used to be a sys admin for 5 years, blah blah
me: ok, now just type in shutdown -r now. and then hit enter.

remote hands: ok, done.

me: strange... still pinging. Did it shutdown?

remote hands: well, it said it will shutdown in 5 minutes..... isnt that what you wanted?

me: WHAT?! 5 more minutes downtime?! didnt you type shutdown -r now?

remote hands: yah, I did it just now on the phone with you! why you getting on my case man?! Dont make me backdoor your shit! remember, I am eleet!

me: please. get me your supervisor. I am NOT paying for this fuckin call. Idiot.

hehehehe.

12-04-2002, 07:46 PM	#1
Probono Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Under the Rainbow Posts: 2,731	A hosting question? After reading thread after thread about hosting issues I need to ask this. If you have your own server or can justify buying one why don't you just colocate in a tier one provider? Rent rack space, buy bandwidth and what ever level of support your are willing to pay for. It works for us and has for years, if we are down for 5 minutes I call and get an answer. I doubt we have been down for an accumulated hour in the past year. Why pay marked up prices for inferior support that you are upset about? NO I am not selling hosting.

12-04-2002, 10:18 PM	#2
picindex Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,038	Getting a Dedicated Server: - you don't have to pay for the hardware - if you are using a real host failed hardware should be replaced in 2 hours. - upgrades can usually be done in a matter of minutes not hours or days. - if your host starts to flake you can get another server elsewhere and transfer the sites over and cut them over with minimal downtime. - plus a ton of other things I'm too tired to list. Colo a server: - you own the server - you have "complete full" control over the hardware - upgrades and shit can be done cheaper but you got to buy the additional parts, drive down there, and install them rather then just sending an email or picking up the phone. - real colo facilities (UUNet, Qwest, C&W (Exodus), etc., etc.,) usually never go down and you can get single server space cheaper. Personally I co-locate my own servers but I have a TON of hardware for my previous hosting business that I have sold. If I did not have the hardware already I would have never done the colo option ? dedicated all the way! __________________ Good Content:

12-05-2002, 12:00 AM	#3
dnsmonster Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A warm place. Posts: 634	If you decide to do such thing, bring your servers to me. I have 40 racks to fill up. __________________ I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about, I'm completely, absolutely and definitively out of my fucking mind.

12-05-2002, 12:03 AM	#4
OzKaNoz Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Deep With In Your Mind Posts: 1,834	Good Info Oz __________________ Techie Media Web Hosting

12-05-2002, 12:25 AM	#6
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	The AVERAGE webmaster uses less than 1 megabit of sustained bandwidth. For them to get that through a hosting company is cheap... to enter into a contract with a colo and tier 1 bandwidth supplier, they'd be looking at a $500-1000 a month plus setup, hardware, two 1 year contracts... and all the headache. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

12-05-2002, 12:53 AM	#7
deniska Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Miami Beach, FL Posts: 1,053	The issue of support comes in to play. Tier1 colo remote hands do exist (in some places) but these people are totally clueless and don't know anything about your business. Unless you ask them to hit a reboot switch, they are capable of doing that. Plus remote hands aren't cheap. Why would you want to pay someone $75/hour who doesn't know what they are doing. Also do you think they are going to be monitoring your servers for downtime? Constant trips to the datacenter are annoying and the list goes on. Its not easy and definitely not for everyone. This is a business why not put it in hands of a professional company that will manage it for you. With a good hosting company your servers are monitored 24 hours a day with people standing on site just in case something goes wrong. Its nice to have support you cant count on that knows your business. Sure beats paying $75/hour to some clue less noc monkey. Colocating With a Tier1 also ties you to connectivity with their backbone. A hosting company can offer you redundant connections to multiple tier1's. All carriers have problems, scheduled maintenance and so on. Don't matter if you are on Verio or Cogent. Let nice forget about PRICE Last edited by deniska; 12-05-2002 at 12:54 AM..

12-05-2002, 01:02 AM	#8
L0stMind Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancity Posts: 1,681	I LOVE remote hands... we used to have servers in san jose and ny... convo's would be like this: remote hands: yah, I used to be a sys admin for 5 years, blah blah me: ok, now just type in shutdown -r now. and then hit enter. remote hands: ok, done. me: strange... still pinging. Did it shutdown? remote hands: well, it said it will shutdown in 5 minutes..... isnt that what you wanted? me: WHAT?! 5 more minutes downtime?! didnt you type shutdown -r now? remote hands: yah, I did it just now on the phone with you! why you getting on my case man?! Dont make me backdoor your shit! remember, I am eleet! me: please. get me your supervisor. I am NOT paying for this fuckin call. Idiot. hehehehe.