With all these Anti-IBill threads over the past few weeks, isn't it funny... - GoFuckYourself.com

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 08:38 AM

That no one from IBill has really jumped into one of them and defended thier company?

Think its because they fear GFY webmasters and program owners?

Or..

Do you think it's because they simply don't care about GFY webmasters and program owners?

Tanker · 07-11-2009, 09:08 AM

I dont think they care!

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanker

I dont think they care!

thats what I'm thinking.

there must be a pool of suckers somewhere, but not here.

MsCheyenne · 07-11-2009, 10:54 AM

When they re-opened their doors, I called and go the owner on the phone. He explained why they do not owe previous Ibill clients the money that was stolen from them. When I said, "Wow. Isn't using the Ibill name a death sentence?" He said, "Quite the opposite. It has done very well for us."

Ibills are liars. We all know that. Maybe they are doing well. Maybe they aren't. One thing is for sure. They cannot post here and have a public debate. They will only lose the debate. Anything they say aside from "We will send everyone their hard earned money" will only make things worse for them...at least here.

Cheyenne

seeandsee · 07-11-2009, 10:58 AM

i really don;t know why they used that name

Miguel T · 07-11-2009, 11:29 AM

They really don't care.

lagcam · 07-11-2009, 11:32 AM

They don't reply because there is nothing that they can say that they haven't already said already and have been shot down for, and that is that they claim they are not responsible for the debts of their previous incarnation.

The question for me is how did these people acquire the "ibill" name they are using?

I am not familiar with US insolvency law, but I worked in this field in the UK many years ago where when a business fails it is officially "wound up" or "liquidated" and any cash held in accounts of the company, any debts owed to the company and the proceeds of the sale of any assets (which would include physical properties, cars. domain name, trademarks etc as well as furniture equipment etc), would be totalled up and then distributed in order of their ranking. First of course would be the liquidation fees, then I believe any secured creditors, (then in UK) something called preferential creditors (which are government taxes etc, and then lastly UNSECURED CREDITORS....all the people who are posting in these threads, who will rarely if ever get anything but sometimes may get a few cents in the dollar if they prove and registered their claim and if funds permitted.

So what somebody needs to do here if they are owed money is:

1. Look into the liquidation of ibill.
2. Ask a lawyer for an interpretation of their position based on that liquidation and the incorporation of the new ibill, and to find if there ANY LEGITIMATE GROUNDS WHATSOEVER for an action against the current ibill. If enough parties joined together the cost of establishing this basic fact would probably not be huge, in fact I am sure some have already done this.

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 11:38 AM

GFY is not the center of the universe. Maybe they don't even know this site exists?

baddog · 07-11-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

GFY is not the center of the universe. Maybe they don't even know this site exists?

Hope that was supposed to be a joke.

lagcam · 07-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

GFY is not the center of the universe. Maybe they don't even know this site exists?

They STARTED one of the fucking threads !!

borked · 07-11-2009, 12:12 PM

OK, I'm being naïve cos this kind of doesn't involve me, but if iBill (the rogues) went under and were liquidated, and part of that liquidation was selling of the domain name, then why does the new iBill have to answer/pay debts under the old iBill name?

Or is there something more sinister at work here (sorry only followed those ibill threads briefly at the beginning)

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

They STARTED one of the fucking threads !!

Oh... my fault then.

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Hope that was supposed to be a joke.

Nope, I'm not the ibill expert.

lagcam · 07-11-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

Nope, I'm not the ibill expert.

I love that girl in your avatar CyberHustler, who is she?

WiredGuy · 07-11-2009, 01:36 PM

What were you expecting them to do? Start a pissing match? If they were baited into trying to defend themselves they'd need more staff just to post here. They made it clear they're back (or new) in business and that's probably all they'll do for public relations.
WG

Machete_ · 07-11-2009, 01:36 PM

They took the LegandaryLars Public relations course

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

I love that girl in your avatar CyberHustler, who is she?

A singer named Cassie (Cassie Ventura)

lagcam · 07-11-2009, 01:53 PM

Thanks...I am off to google.

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

What were you expecting them to do? Start a pissing match? If they were baited into trying to defend themselves they'd need more staff just to post here. They made it clear they're back (or new) in business and that's probably all they'll do for public relations.
WG

You make a damn fine point, but I was honestly expecting that they would stay gone, WG.

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

Thanks...I am off to google.

dont bother, search GFY. Theres a bunch of shit on that company in here.

candyflip · 07-11-2009, 02:03 PM

IF they purchased the name in liquidation I don't see them owing anyone (including myself) any money. Unless of course there's some other link, but if it is what has been said it is, they don't owe anyone.

baddog · 07-11-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

Nope, I'm not the ibill expert.

You seriously think there is the remote possibility of a processor, that does adult, being unaware of GFY?

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You seriously think there is the remote possibility of a processor, that does adult, being unaware of GFY?

I don't know dude, aren't they claiming to be new? Do all new adult billing processors automatically get a GFY "welcome to the adult business, please join our forum" card signed by baddog? If so, I was unaware homie.

iTouch! · 07-11-2009, 02:23 PM

lolololol

DWB · 07-11-2009, 03:12 PM

I'm curious how many Bros step up at a later date and pics start flying around of people with the "stand up" Ibill crew at the shows or parties. You know its only a matter of time.

MsCheyenne · 07-11-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

OK, I'm being naïve cos this kind of doesn't involve me, but if iBill (the rogues) went under and were liquidated, and part of that liquidation was selling of the domain name, then why does the new iBill have to answer/pay debts under the old iBill name?

Or is there something more sinister at work here (sorry only followed those ibill threads briefly at the beginning)

The "new Ibill" is owned and operated by the "old Ibill" executives, including one of the orginal founders. This has certainly lead to the belief that there is something sinister at work.

Cheyenne

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You seriously think there is the remote possibility of a processor, that does adult, being unaware of GFY?

Abso-fucking-lutely not a snowballs chance in hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

I don't know dude, aren't they claiming to be new? Do all new adult billing processors automatically get a GFY "welcome to the adult business, please join our forum" card signed by baddog? If so, I was unaware homie.

CyberHustler
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Internet
Posts: 12,195

I'm not getting shitty with you, CH. But with a feb 2006 join date, and 12,195 posts, you should know as much about ibill as you do the girl in your avatar.

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I'm curious how many Bros step up at a later date and pics start flying around of people with the "stand up" Ibill crew at the shows or parties. You know its only a matter of time.

Being very careful to watch what I say, I agree with you 100% DWB. That will happen after ibill quietly, and out of public view, pays what they owe or some of what they owe to a few "bigger" proggies.

Then the beers will flow.........

The little guy isn't getting shit out of this.

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

CyberHustler
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Internet
Posts: 12,195

I'm not getting shitty with you, CH. But with a feb 2006 join date, and 12,195 posts, you should know as much about ibill as you do the girl in your avatar.

What's that supposed to mean? So, because I have a February 2006 join date I'm supposed to magically know everything about these new people using an old company's name? I'm supposed telepathically know that they should automatically know that GFY exists just because they do adult billing? I wonder what powers those people with 2001 join dates have, shit I should already know since my 2006 join date gave me psychic abilities. I gotta go practice... brb. Edit: Wait, first ima smoke a blunt, then practice...

F-U-Jimmy · 07-11-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

What's that supposed to mean? So, because I have a February 2006 join date I'm supposed to magically know everything about these new people using an old company's name? I'm supposed telepathically know that they should automatically know that GFY exists just because they do adult billing? I wonder what powers those people with 2001 join dates have, shit I should already know since my 2006 join date gave me psychic abilities. I gotta go practice... brb. Edit: Wait, first ima smoke a blunt, then practice...

Anyone interested in learning about IBILL and there history of lies, false promises, theft, fraud etc. Can click this link IBALLS UP when on this site click on a few of the links, top right. Some great reading if you have time

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-U-Jimmy

Anyone interested in learning about IBILL and there history of lies, false promises, theft, fraud etc. Can click this link IBALLS UP when on this site click on a few of the links, top right. Some great reading if you have time

Quick question, are these the same guys? Or a new group of people using the same name?

lagcam · 07-11-2009, 03:54 PM

jmcb420 you can forgive cyberhustler for not being the ibill authority that you clearly think you are. He even apologised for it.

You have to understand that sometimes people don't read EVERY thread on GFY or even every post in a particular thread that they are interested in and make polls about, as you clearly didn't in the ibill thread that THEY THEMSELVES started and initially defended themselves until they realised it was as futile as trying to piss in the wind and not damaging your white trousers.

F-U-Jimmy · 07-11-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

Quick question, are these the same guys? Or a new group of people using the same name?

Two of the original people started IBILL up again. One was / is a programmer the other was upper management.

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

jmcb420 you can forgive cyberhustler for not being the ibill authority that you clearly think you are. He even apologised for it.

You have to understand that sometimes people don't read EVERY thread on GFY or even every post in a particular thread that they are interested in and make polls about, as you clearly didn't in the ibill thread that THEY THEMSELVES started and initially defended themselves until they realised it was as futile as trying to piss in the wind and not damaging your white trousers.

Actually I did, right here post #80. I shared an experience I had with a banking institution that changed names and management when I owed them money and urged other users to seek legal advise if possible, because of my own experience.

Alas, I am not an IBill authority, and never claimed to be so I dont understand where you are coming up with that. Please forgive me for being curious about other peoples feelings on the situation. It wont happen again.

________________

Cyber Hustler, F-U-Jimmy posted a link in this thread. Check it out man. Good, solid no bullshit info. And no, a 2006 join date does not give you E.S.P., but the 2001 join dates can all fly and catch bullets in thier teeth.

Fuck people, lighten the fuck up. Its the weekend.

SilentKnight · 07-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-U-Jimmy

Anyone interested in learning about IBILL and there history of lies, false promises, theft, fraud etc. Can click this link IBALLS UP when on this site click on a few of the links, top right. Some great reading if you have time

I'm curious - on that ibill-sucks.com link - there's a link titled "iBill alternatives" - which goes to a First Data merchant page.

Although I know iBill is guilty as hell of ripping us all off - but do we know whether First Data was completely innocent? We know they cancelled iBill's merchant account, but did they also owe iBill money at the time? I recall iBill execs claiming they never received monies owing from First Data back when shit hit the fan.

Or was that simply another in a littany of iBill excuses?

CyberHustler · 07-11-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

2001 join dates can all fly and catch bullets in thier teeth.

Know anybody selling those for cheap?

F-U-Jimmy · 07-11-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

I'm curious - on that ibill-sucks.com link - there's a link titled "iBill alternatives" - which goes to a First Data merchant page.

Although I know iBill is guilty as hell of ripping us all off - but do we know whether First Data was completely innocent? We know they cancelled iBill's merchant account, but did they also owe iBill money at the time? I recall iBill execs claiming they never received monies owing from First Data back when shit hit the fan.

Or was that simply another in a littany of iBill excuses?

At the time all i could get little out of First Data, was that they had the right to withhold IBILLs payments for a period of 6 months. Im sure If it was due to Ibail it would have been paid. Personally i think Ibail keep all the monies due to webmasters, but to be on the safe side i closed all my own merchant accounts that i had with First Data through Card Service International. And opened them up with another company

jmcb420 · 07-11-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

Know anybody selling those for cheap?

That would be nice huh? I cant imagine ever having to catch a bullet in my teeth, but flying would be pretty cool, and I could save alot of money on gas.

MsCheyenne · 08-10-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

That no one from IBill has really jumped into one of them and defended thier company?

Think its because they fear GFY webmasters and program owners?

Or..

Do you think it's because they simply don't care about GFY webmasters and program owners?

Ibill will take every new webmaster they can. They stole millions of dollars from their clients and now they show up at an expo with custom painted limos? Ibill is like Enron for the adult business. In the mainstream business world, they would never be getting by with this. Do not be a fool.

http://www.ibill-sucks.com/

Cheyenne

Nikki_Licks · 08-10-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsCheyenne

Ibill will take every new webmaster they can. They stole millions of dollars from their clients and now they show up at an expo with custom painted limos? Ibill is like Enron for the adult business. In the mainstream business world, they would never be getting by with this. Do not be a fool.

http://www.ibill-sucks.com/

Cheyenne

F-U-Jimmy · 08-10-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsCheyenne

Ibill will take every new webmaster they can. They stole millions of dollars from their clients and now they show up at an expo with custom painted limos? Ibill is like Enron for the adult business. In the mainstream business world, they would never be getting by with this. Do not be a fool.

http://www.ibill-sucks.com/

Cheyenne

JFK · 08-10-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeandsee

i really don;t know why they used that name

unfortunate choice

topnotch, standup guy · 08-10-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

What's that supposed to mean? So, because I have a February 2006 join date I'm supposed to magically know everything about these new people using an old company's name? I'm supposed telepathically know that they should automatically know that GFY exists just because they do adult billing?

Blah, blah, blah...

What the man was trying to tell you is that you should have a clue.

Clearly you don't

topnotch, standup guy · 08-10-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

jmcb420 you can forgive cyberhustler for not being the ibill authority that you clearly think you are. He even apologised for it.

You have to understand that sometimes people don't read EVERY thread on GFY or even every post in a particular thread that they are interested in and make polls about, as you clearly didn't in the ibill thread that THEY THEMSELVES started and initially defended themselves until they realised it was as futile as trying to piss in the wind and not damaging your white trousers.

We are talking here about a billing company that ripped off adult webmasters (including many of the ones here) for millions of dollars five short years ago.

Somehow I don't think it's really necessary to "read EVERY thread on GFY" to have a clue about iBill

ParlourCash Karl · 08-10-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsCheyenne

Ibill will take every new webmaster they can. They stole millions of dollars from their clients and now they show up at an expo with custom painted limos? Ibill is like Enron for the adult business. In the mainstream business world, they would never be getting by with this. Do not be a fool.

http://www.ibill-sucks.com/

Cheyenne

So True they are a bunch of thieves

DateDoc · 08-11-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsCheyenne

Ibill will take every new webmaster they can. They stole millions of dollars from their clients and now they show up at an expo with custom painted limos? Ibill is like Enron for the adult business. In the mainstream business world, they would never be getting by with this. Do not be a fool.

http://www.ibill-sucks.com/

Cheyenne

That is great - you said in mainstream business iBill would not get away with this and also compared them to Enron. Enron fooled the entire financial markets for years and years way more so than iBill fooled anyone. So yes, it can happen in mainstream too.

F-U-Jimmy · 08-11-2009, 08:55 AM

Bump

CurrentlySober · 08-11-2009, 09:04 AM

I FUCKIN HATE... Poppy Morgan..

nikki99 · 08-11-2009, 09:25 AM

votedddddddddddddddddddddd

F-U-Jimmy · 08-11-2009, 04:09 PM

Bump

View Poll Results: Why is IBill absent from threads that GFYers post?
They fear GFY.	15	26.79%
They dont care about GFY.	35	62.50%
I live under a rock, who's IBill?	6	10.71%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

07-11-2009, 08:38 AM	#1
jmcb420 So Fucking Drunk Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,155	With all these Anti-IBill threads over the past few weeks, isn't it funny... That no one from IBill has really jumped into one of them and defended thier company? Think its because they fear GFY webmasters and program owners? Or.. Do you think it's because they simply don't care about GFY webmasters and program owners? __________________ I'm funner than AIDS, and easier to explain to your parents.

07-11-2009, 09:08 AM	#2
Tanker Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 9,287	I dont think they care! __________________ Tanker ICQ 3427575 CCBTools Now featured in the CCBill.com APP STORE

07-11-2009, 10:54 AM	#4
MsCheyenne Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 412	When they re-opened their doors, I called and go the owner on the phone. He explained why they do not owe previous Ibill clients the money that was stolen from them. When I said, "Wow. Isn't using the Ibill name a death sentence?" He said, "Quite the opposite. It has done very well for us." Ibills are liars. We all know that. Maybe they are doing well. Maybe they aren't. One thing is for sure. They cannot post here and have a public debate. They will only lose the debate. Anything they say aside from "We will send everyone their hard earned money" will only make things worse for them...at least here. Cheyenne __________________ ClubDom.com \| SubbyHubby.com \| ClubDomCash.com

07-11-2009, 10:58 AM	#5
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	i really don;t know why they used that name __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

07-11-2009, 11:29 AM	#6
Miguel T ♦ Web Developer ♦ Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Full-Stack Developer Posts: 12,470	They really don't care. __________________ Full Stack Webdeveloper: HTML5/CSS3, jQuery, AJAX, ElevatedX, NATS, MechBunny, Wordpress

07-11-2009, 11:32 AM	#7
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	They don't reply because there is nothing that they can say that they haven't already said already and have been shot down for, and that is that they claim they are not responsible for the debts of their previous incarnation. The question for me is how did these people acquire the "ibill" name they are using? I am not familiar with US insolvency law, but I worked in this field in the UK many years ago where when a business fails it is officially "wound up" or "liquidated" and any cash held in accounts of the company, any debts owed to the company and the proceeds of the sale of any assets (which would include physical properties, cars. domain name, trademarks etc as well as furniture equipment etc), would be totalled up and then distributed in order of their ranking. First of course would be the liquidation fees, then I believe any secured creditors, (then in UK) something called preferential creditors (which are government taxes etc, and then lastly UNSECURED CREDITORS....all the people who are posting in these threads, who will rarely if ever get anything but sometimes may get a few cents in the dollar if they prove and registered their claim and if funds permitted. So what somebody needs to do here if they are owed money is: 1. Look into the liquidation of ibill. 2. Ask a lawyer for an interpretation of their position based on that liquidation and the incorporation of the new ibill, and to find if there ANY LEGITIMATE GROUNDS WHATSOEVER for an action against the current ibill. If enough parties joined together the cost of establishing this basic fact would probably not be huge, in fact I am sure some have already done this. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

07-11-2009, 11:38 AM	#8
CyberHustler Unregistered Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 25,545	GFY is not the center of the universe. Maybe they don't even know this site exists?

07-11-2009, 12:12 PM	#11
borked Totally Borked Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,284	OK, I'm being naïve cos this kind of doesn't involve me, but if iBill (the rogues) went under and were liquidated, and part of that liquidation was selling of the domain name, then why does the new iBill have to answer/pay debts under the old iBill name? Or is there something more sinister at work here (sorry only followed those ibill threads briefly at the beginning) __________________ For coding work - hit me up on andy // borkedcoder // com (consider figuring out the email as test #1) All models are wrong, but some are useful. George E.P. Box. p202

07-11-2009, 01:36 PM	#15
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,460	What were you expecting them to do? Start a pissing match? If they were baited into trying to defend themselves they'd need more staff just to post here. They made it clear they're back (or new) in business and that's probably all they'll do for public relations. WG __________________ I play with Google.

07-11-2009, 01:36 PM	#16
Machete_ WINNING! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,579	They took the LegandaryLars Public relations course

07-11-2009, 01:53 PM	#18
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	Thanks...I am off to google. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

07-11-2009, 02:03 PM	#21
candyflip Carpe Visio Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York Posts: 43,058	IF they purchased the name in liquidation I don't see them owing anyone (including myself) any money. Unless of course there's some other link, but if it is what has been said it is, they don't owe anyone. __________________ Spend you some brain. Email Me

07-11-2009, 02:23 PM	#24
iTouch! So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: $ land Posts: 1,457	lolololol

07-11-2009, 03:12 PM	#25
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	I'm curious how many Bros step up at a later date and pics start flying around of people with the "stand up" Ibill crew at the shows or parties. You know its only a matter of time.

07-11-2009, 03:54 PM	#32
lagcam Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,892	jmcb420 you can forgive cyberhustler for not being the ibill authority that you clearly think you are. He even apologised for it. You have to understand that sometimes people don't read EVERY thread on GFY or even every post in a particular thread that they are interested in and make polls about, as you clearly didn't in the ibill thread that THEY THEMSELVES started and initially defended themselves until they realised it was as futile as trying to piss in the wind and not damaging your white trousers. __________________ Working Cam site for sale - NOT affiliate.

08-11-2009, 08:55 AM	#47
F-U-Jimmy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Visiting a city near you soon ! Posts: 6,853	Bump __________________ icq. 176240424 44.years as a pornographer !!!!!!!!!!!

08-11-2009, 09:04 AM	#48
CurrentlySober Too lazy to wipe my ass Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A Public Bathroom Posts: 38,556	I FUCKIN HATE... Poppy Morgan.. __________________ My AI Handywork... My Dream Gal... XXX 👁️ 👍️ 💩

08-11-2009, 09:25 AM	#49
nikki99 Supermodel Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sodoma & Gomorra Posts: 22,875	votedddddddddddddddddddddd __________________ SMC Revenue - Best Tgirl websites of the world now VR Non exclusive BIG Tranny/shemale Package for sale, full 2257 - hit me up skype: nikkimontero

08-11-2009, 04:09 PM	#50
F-U-Jimmy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Visiting a city near you soon ! Posts: 6,853	Bump __________________ icq. 176240424 44.years as a pornographer !!!!!!!!!!!