Dear programs. Stop lying to us about how watermarks are to protect your content.

[Tempest]

Putting your watermark on the videos and pictures has ZERO to do with protecting it. It's about "BRANDING".. that's a MARKETING term.. You want surfers to remember the name of the site and TYPE IT IN thus gaining the program sales they keep 100% to themselves. And when surfers see videos or pictures on a site that's advertising another site, they will type in the domain thus cutting out the affiliate. Anyone one that doesn't believe that is a moron.. Any program saying it doesn't happen or is "minimal" is a blatant liar. Surfers have been trained over the year to know that the content they see on a gallery is NOT what they will necessarily get if they sign up to the site... Knowing that, they're going to type in the domain to try and ensure they DO get that content because that's what they want and has triggered them to pull out the credit card. Seriously people. If it wasn't making programs more money than they're willing to say do you really think they would be so blatantly doing it more and more? I mean really.. Why do you think Brazzers has been so aggressive about doing it?

Here's the kicker.. In order to "protect" their content, programs could be embedding their copywrite into the videos themselves when they encode it.. VERY FEW do that.. THAT'S what's required to protect their property, NOT watermarking. Any program that isn't embedding the info in their videos is blatantly lying to you about why they're using branding watermarks.

So if you're an affiliate, stop being stupid and fucking yourself out of your sales.. Rip the FHGs to your own server and cut out the fucking watermark.. You WILL see an increase in your sales. And if you're smart, you'll use a template system on the galleries so that if the site goes away or the program starts to redirect it, you can make the changes yourself in just minutes. And if the program goes under, you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site. Get your head out of your ass.

[DebsDeep]

i dont, hey hit me up

[Intrinsic]

People with money are lazy

Lazy people click stuff, lazy people don't type stuff

Get lazy, make money, stop worrying

[_Richard_]

think it's more about branding than protection.. is this about that thread yesterday?

[hjnet]

Isn't it that most sponsors clearly forbid to cut out the watermark from their free content?

[Marquis85]

Isn't all this pretty obvious? I've worked in marketing as a content writer and even assisted affiliate managers and designed program banners, etc.

Affiliates are cash cows. They drive traffic to a site, plain and simple. Also, as an affiliate, I won't use banners and things if the website I'm promoting has their name all over it, a logo is fine, but their url? I hate that. I understand why they do it, but it annoys me.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Isn't it that most sponsors clearly forbid to cut out the watermark from their free content?

They don't give a shit if you're promoting their site and sending sales.. And if they do then send your traffic elsewhere..

And I'm not talking about content that has the proper watermark on it. I'm talking about the ones where the program is clearly trying to shave sales from the afiiliate with watermarks for other sites and in the most aggressive cases sites you can't even promote.. Like Brazzers..

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Putting your watermark on the videos and pictures has ZERO to do with protecting it. It's about "BRANDING".. that's a MARKETING term.. You want surfers to remember the name of the site and TYPE IT IN thus gaining the program sales they keep 100% to themselves. And when surfers see videos or pictures on a site that's advertising another site, they will type in the domain thus cutting out the affiliate. Anyone one that doesn't believe that is a moron.. Any program saying it doesn't happen or is "minimal" is a blatant liar. Surfers have been trained over the year to know that the content they see on a gallery is NOT what they will necessarily get if they sign up to the site... Knowing that, they're going to type in the domain to try and ensure they DO get that content because that's what they want and has triggered them to pull out the credit card. Seriously people. If it wasn't making programs more money than they're willing to say do you really think they would be so blatantly doing it more and more? I mean really.. Why do you think Brazzers has been so aggressive about doing it?

Here's the kicker.. In order to "protect" their content, programs could be embedding their copywrite into the videos themselves when they encode it.. VERY FEW do that.. THAT'S what's required to protect their property, NOT watermarking. Any program that isn't embedding the info in their videos is blatantly lying to you about why they're using branding watermarks.

So if you're an affiliate, stop being stupid and fucking yourself out of your sales.. Rip the FHGs to your own server and cut out the fucking watermark.. You WILL see an increase in your sales. And if you're smart, you'll use a template system on the galleries so that if the site goes away or the program starts to redirect it, you can make the changes yourself in just minutes. And if the program goes under, you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site. Get your head out of your ass.

I think affiliates should think LONG and HARD before following your advice. Especially to take content and cut out the watermarks. Any affiliate that does that to our content will be immediately terminated and no longer be allowed to use our content.

We watermark our content however it's watermarked with the site you are promoting. Twistys content has a Twistys.com watermark and you promote Twistys.com. If the surfer types in twistys.com your id will be cookied and you'll get credit. You don't get screwed out of anything.

That being said it's very important for us to have our watermark on our videos and pictures. Our content is the highest quality and hottest content out there. Most surfers don't give a shit about looking at the embedded info. It is important to us that when they see our high quality content they see the Twistys logo. We want them to know that Twistys = HOT Babes and Smoking Hot Content!

[Shap]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Isn't it that most sponsors clearly forbid to cut out the watermark from their free content?

Correct.

[CyberHustler]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Putting your watermark on the videos and pictures has ZERO to do with protecting it. It's about "BRANDING".. that's a MARKETING term.. You want surfers to remember the name of the site and TYPE IT IN thus gaining the program sales they keep 100% to themselves. And when surfers see videos or pictures on a site that's advertising another site, they will type in the domain thus cutting out the affiliate. Anyone one that doesn't believe that is a moron.. Any program saying it doesn't happen or is "minimal" is a blatant liar. Surfers have been trained over the year to know that the content they see on a gallery is NOT what they will necessarily get if they sign up to the site... Knowing that, they're going to type in the domain to try and ensure they DO get that content because that's what they want and has triggered them to pull out the credit card. Seriously people. If it wasn't making programs more money than they're willing to say do you really think they would be so blatantly doing it more and more? I mean really.. Why do you think Brazzers has been so aggressive about doing it?

Here's the kicker.. In order to "protect" their content, programs could be embedding their copywrite into the videos themselves when they encode it.. VERY FEW do that.. THAT'S what's required to protect their property, NOT watermarking. Any program that isn't embedding the info in their videos is blatantly lying to you about why they're using branding watermarks.

So if you're an affiliate, stop being stupid and fucking yourself out of your sales.. Rip the FHGs to your own server and cut out the fucking watermark.. You WILL see an increase in your sales. And if you're smart, you'll use a template system on the galleries so that if the site goes away or the program starts to redirect it, you can make the changes yourself in just minutes. And if the program goes under, you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site. Get your head out of your ass.

[Agent 488]

stupid advice.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

So if you're an affiliate, stop being stupid and fucking yourself out of your sales.. Rip the FHGs to your own server and cut out the fucking watermark.. You WILL see an increase in your sales. And if you're smart, you'll use a template system on the galleries so that if the site goes away or the program starts to redirect it, you can make the changes yourself in just minutes. And if the program goes under, you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site. Get your head out of your ass.

And if I catch an affiliate doing that I'll term them so fast it'll make their head spin.
Putting my affiliate cap on...I've been an affiliate of just about every program out there since I started online in 1997. I would never feel the need to do this.

Having said that...yes, it is all about branding. There is no way to protect our content these days with everybody stealing it. So the best thing a person can do is to watermark it in hopes of getting some type in here and there. Sorry if that doesn't fit some people's criteria...but I'm the guy who is spending the money, taking the risks, putting in the creativity, etc. ,etc. to create my content. And everytime I see it out there being used without my permission I dmca it down. And if one of my affiliates ever tried a stunt like taking my watermarks off I would terminate their account and they would never see another penny from it.

Just like I would expect it to happen to me if I were to try that as an affiliate.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Robbie

And if I catch an affiliate doing that I'll term them so fast it'll make their head spin.
Putting my affiliate cap on...I've been an affiliate of just about every program out there since I started online in 1997. I would never feel the need to do this.

Having said that...yes, it is all about branding. There is no way to protect our content these days with everybody stealing it. So the best thing a person can do is to watermark it in hopes of getting some type in here and there. Sorry if that doesn't fit some people's criteria...but I'm the guy who is spending the money, taking the risks, putting in the creativity, etc. ,etc. to create my content. And everytime I see it out there being used without my permission I dmca it down. And if one of my affiliates ever tried a stunt like taking my watermarks off I would terminate their account and they would never see another penny from it.

Just like I would expect it to happen to me if I were to try that as an affiliate.

Not like I would ever promote your shit anyways...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Not like I would ever promote your shit anyways...

Because you are a stupid fuck who has no idea how to make money. Stop posting kid.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think affiliates should think LONG and HARD before following your advice. Especially to take content and cut out the watermarks. Any affiliate that does that to our content will be immediately terminated and no longer be allowed to use our content.

We watermark our content however it's watermarked with the site you are promoting. Twistys content has a Twistys.com watermark and you promote Twistys.com. If the surfer types in twistys.com your id will be cookied and you'll get credit. You don't get screwed out of anything.

That being said it's very important for us to have our watermark on our videos and pictures. Our content is the highest quality and hottest content out there. Most surfers don't give a shit about looking at the embedded info. It is important to us that when they see our high quality content they see the Twistys logo. We want them to know that Twistys = HOT Babes and Smoking Hot Content!

As I said in the post just before this one... I'm talking about the ones that are branded for other sites...

[fuzebox]

The amount of typein sales you pick up when you start your own paysites is amazing

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Because you are a stupid fuck who has no idea how to make money. Stop posting kid.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings little boy...

[Agent 488]

if you can't get the surfer to sign up then, or to book mark your aff. code ... you failed.

no point to blame "the branding" for your failure.

advice like this will just get you termed anyway.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings little boy...

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU? Hurt my feelings? How? You are pretty insignificant. When you learn how to promote properly let me know. Otherwise I'd stop making dumbass threads like this one. You're nothing more than a failed salesman. You were lucky to ever make a dollar. Now fuck off.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Shap

If the surfer types in twistys.com your id will be cookied and you'll get credit. You don't get screwed out of anything.

Really? Seriously? Could you tell me how you perform that magic?

If you actually cookie FHG gallery hits with the affiliates ID so that they WOULD get sales from typeins, then you are the only program I've ever heard about that would do that and kudos to you.

[NaughtyRob]

Is this a joke thread? Yes its called branding and yes, 99% of us will never stop watermarking.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Robbie

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU? Hurt my feelings? How? You are pretty insignificant. When you learn how to promote properly let me know. Otherwise I'd stop making dumbass threads like this one. You're nothing more than a failed salesman. You were lucky to ever make a dollar. Now fuck off.

God you're such a tool with your little program and desire to be a real player... Just go away.. you came into MY thread child..

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by GetNaughty

Is this a joke thread? Yes its called branding and yes, 99% of us will never stop watermarking.

That's NOT what this thread is about...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

God you're such a tool with your little program and desire to be a real player... Just go away.. you came into MY thread child..

Yeah, I'm a tool. And you are just a salesman. And I saw the thread and TRIED to steer you right. But you just keep on thinking this way as you continue to fail.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think affiliates should think LONG and HARD before following your advice. Especially to take content and cut out the watermarks. Any affiliate that does that to our content will be immediately terminated and no longer be allowed to use our content.

We watermark our content however it's watermarked with the site you are promoting. Twistys content has a Twistys.com watermark and you promote Twistys.com. If the surfer types in twistys.com your id will be cookied and you'll get credit. You don't get screwed out of anything.

How do you figure.. They dont get a cookie unless they click something.

[Mutt]

Well any program that denies that the watermark is a financial benefit to them would be a liar - Shap said it, he wants people to know where that content came from. You can't expect program owners to let their content go out onto the Net without any identification - that would just be stupid. So as affiliates you have to be happy with whatever the payout a program is paying you for a sale - or not be happy and promote somebody else. It's the same thing with x-sales and upsales - affiliates don't get paid on those. The PPS rate hasn't gone up since the pre-checked x-sales became the big fad, you had programs making a couple hundred dollars per signup and still paying out 30-40 dollars per signup - $100 dollar bonus days have increased but that's because most affiliates are suckers.

[CyberHustler]

I made a thread about this a while ago I think... I don't feel like the little clips given to affiliates to promote your shit should be watermarked... It doesn't sit well with me. Let me get my cookie all up in their shit. I know when a surfer is jackin off to a clip on a tube site or a blog, a lot of them will type in the watermarked url to see more of it which leaves the affiliate screwed.

[DrChango]

did I see something about content in the affiliate's site not matching what they are actually trying to sell? That sounds like a charge back waiting to happen.
People in glass houses shouldn't hurl rocks

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by DrChango

did I see something about content in the affiliate's site not matching what they are actually trying to sell? That sounds like a charge back waiting to happen.
People in glass houses shouldn't hurl rocks

Yep! That's what Tempest said he would do: "you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site"

So in other words he's saying that he has no problem with taking other people's content, removing the watermarks and using it to promote another site. Good thing he has his little "nickname" on here instead of identifying who he is, cause I'm sure that the programs he "promotes" (lol) would be interested to know who he is and what he feels can be done with their content.

[brassmonkey]

something funny daily

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep! That's what Tempest said he would do: "you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site"

So in other words he's saying that he has no problem with taking other people's content, removing the watermarks and using it to promote another site. Good thing he has his little "nickname" on here instead of identifying who he is, cause I'm sure that the programs he "promotes" (lol) would be interested to know who he is and what he feels can be done with their content.

Don't put words in my mouth... Go back and read what I REALLY said...

[Socks]

Robbie and Shap, you guys are missing his point (which wasn't made all that well)

You guys just don't apply.

For example Shap, what he's complaining about is if you took all the Euro Foxes and Busty Ones content and threw on a Twistys.com watermark. Clearly he would lose sales to type-ins on that.

Some bigger programs even make it worse, by making their "portal" site not available for promotion by affiliates. BangBros.com for example isn't on the list of available linkcodes, yet all bangbros content for ALL sites has the BangBros.com watermark.

That means that even when people type "Bang Bros" into Google, it won't go to an affiliate. That's the double edged sword that this is.

I just reviewed the HomeMadeCash sites from NS Cash, and they all have their main "Homevideo Pass" or whatever the site was called watermark.

I've even seen programs going back and RE-WATERMARKING all their content for this very purpose.

It's clearly designed to screw the affiliates. There's no question about it.

I also noticed a program (Bling Bucks) has an exit console on my affiliate links that goes to ULust.. Obviously I won't get credit for those sales.. That's underhanded too if you ask me. Exit consoles on affiliate traffic should stay within your network.

[sortie]

Regardless of any sponsor intentions; it's just plain stupid not to watermark the video.

Webmasters put up unmarked video and linked it to other paysites; sometimes their
own paysite!!

What would you have done?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Socks

Robbie and Shap, you guys are missing his point (which wasn't made all that well)

You guys just don't apply.

For example Shap, what he's complaining about is if you took all the Euro Foxes and Busty Ones content and threw on a Twistys.com watermark. Clearly he would lose sales to type-ins on that.

Some bigger programs even make it worse, by making their "portal" site not available for promotion by affiliates. BangBros.com for example isn't on the list of available linkcodes, yet all bangbros content for ALL sites has the BangBros.com watermark.

That means that even when people type "Bang Bros" into Google, it won't go to an affiliate. That's the double edged sword that this is.

I just reviewed the HomeMadeCash sites from NS Cash, and they all have their main "Homevideo Pass" or whatever the site was called watermark.

I've even seen programs going back and RE-WATERMARKING all their content for this very purpose.

It's clearly designed to screw the affiliates. There's no question about it.

I also noticed a program (Bling Bucks) has an exit console on my affiliate links that goes to ULust.. Obviously I won't get credit for those sales.. That's underhanded too if you ask me. Exit consoles on affiliate traffic should stay within your network.

This same discussion went on with pimproll because they had new sites that had content watermarked for some other site (different program as well actaully).. They listened to the affiliates and are rewatermarking for the proper sites.

[EvilFubAr]

Maybe you should buy your own content.


As a sponsor I will agree that yes, its all things, protecting from bullshit sites spamming content while not marketing to the paysites, and also branding/marketing.

There has to be give and take, I mean hell, we pay you $35+ for a Trial that may or may not even convert.

[Socks]

Bang Bus:



__________________________________________^^^

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Don't put words in my mouth... Go back and read what I REALLY said...

I did. I quoted what you said. Maybe I'm taking it wrong...but it pisses me off to see someone who thinks they are in this business act like that. You've always been a disrespectful person on here to me. And I know you hide behind your nickname so you can act like a jackass towards people without retribution. But damn man...

Look, as an affiliate I started in this business a long time ago. Back then we had to BUY our own content, build our galleries, and host it ourselves. Now it's laid out on a silver platter so that the laziest of the lazy can easily promote a site (that is, IF you have any traffic) You're smartass comment about "players" is funny to me because many of the people you think of as players got some of their first links from me on Ampland 10 years ago. If you'd like, I'll be as civil and keep this an intelligent discourse about what you said.

Here I go: Yes, as a content producer I do want to brand my stuff. Yes, I do hope to get a type in from people recognizing my stuff. No, it usually doesn't happen the way you are insinuating. From my experience with my TGP's the chances of a surfer going to a hosted gallery, deciding to check the site out but instead of clicking the link doing a type in...aren't that great.

Chances are they are in a hurry and WILL click your link. As a guy who promotes stuff, you of all people should know the power of branding. Also the fact that a lot of times people DO NOT buy right away. Many times they look at something, but don't have the time to do the signup form. Or maybe they need to wait until the end of the week when it's payday. A million little reasons in life.

So when they come back to their computer and they have been thinking about joining the site you promoted to them and they type it in...THERE is where that cookie that Shap was talking about comes into play.

From the site owners perspective...it's all about branding and marketing. I think when you may have had someone say they were "protecting" their content, that may have been what they mean..."protecting" = "branding" in that scenario. I could definitely see where those words could casually become interchangeable in these days of stolen content all over torrent and illegit tube sites.

[brand0n]

im happy i get content from sponsors for free lol.
you can water mark the fuck outta it as far as i go.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by EvilFubAr

Maybe you should buy your own content.

I have and I do... But exactly how does that help the programs rebill/retention rate? It doesn't and it's that marketing technique that has helped train surfers to type in the domain they see on the watermark.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I did. I quoted what you said. Maybe I'm taking it wrong...but it pisses me off to see someone who thinks they are in this business act like that. You've always been a disrespectful person on here to me. And I know you hide behind your nickname so you can act like a jackass towards people without retribution. But damn man...

Look, as an affiliate I started in this business a long time ago. Back then we had to BUY our own content, build our galleries, and host it ourselves. Now it's laid out on a silver platter so that the laziest of the lazy can easily promote a site (that is, IF you have any traffic) You're smartass comment about "players" is funny to me because many of the people you think of as players got some of their first links from me on Ampland 10 years ago. If you'd like, I'll be as civil and keep this an intelligent discourse about what you said.

Here I go: Yes, as a content producer I do want to brand my stuff. Yes, I do hope to get a type in from people recognizing my stuff. No, it usually doesn't happen the way you are insinuating. From my experience with my TGP's the chances of a surfer going to a hosted gallery, deciding to check the site out but instead of clicking the link doing a type in...aren't that great.

Chances are they are in a hurry and WILL click your link. As a guy who promotes stuff, you of all people should know the power of branding. Also the fact that a lot of times people DO NOT buy right away. Many times they look at something, but don't have the time to do the signup form. Or maybe they need to wait until the end of the week when it's payday. A million little reasons in life.

So when they come back to their computer and they have been thinking about joining the site you promoted to them and they type it in...THERE is where that cookie that Shap was talking about comes into play.

From the site owners perspective...it's all about branding and marketing. I think when you may have had someone say they were "protecting" their content, that may have been what they mean..."protecting" = "branding" in that scenario. I could definitely see where those words could casually become interchangeable in these days of stolen content all over torrent and illegit tube sites.

Good post Robbie, thanks for toning it down because Tempest does have good points, although I understand why you're mad too. ;)

You made another good point.. In my example above, people only remember "bang bros" so when they come back and type that in.... Affiliate is out of the picture again. No cookie to prevent it either.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Tempest

This same discussion went on with pimproll because they had new sites that had content watermarked for some other site (different program as well actaully).. They listened to the affiliates and are rewatermarking for the proper sites.

I DO agree with you 100% about that. And Socks laid it out nicely too.

When they do that kind of watermark it is definitely a way to use your traffic and not give you credit for it. If that was what you were talking about the entire time, then my apologies.

But I still can't agree with your advice to steal their content. Instead of getting frustrated, remember that 2 rights don't make a wrong. Easiest thing is to just not promote programs that do that sort of thing. And maybe, just maybe you should change your opinion of my "shit" and start working and promoting people like me that do all of our own work and are NOT big monolithic companies. Just a thought.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Tempest

This same discussion went on with pimproll because they had new sites that had content watermarked for some other site (different program as well actaully).. They listened to the affiliates and are rewatermarking for the proper sites.

Very cool, way to go Pimp Roll!!!

It's because they're Canadians y'know.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I DO agree with you 100% about that. And Socks laid it out nicely too.

When they do that kind of watermark it is definitely a way to use your traffic and not give you credit for it. If that was what you were talking about the entire time, then my apologies.

But I still can't agree with your advice to steal their content. Instead of getting frustrated, remember that 2 rights don't make a wrong. Easiest thing is to just not promote programs that do that sort of thing. And maybe, just maybe you should change your opinion of my "shit" and start working and promoting people like me that do all of our own work and are NOT big monolithic companies. Just a thought.

Yeah man you're right.. Can you send me off a pass today, we never finished it, my fault.

[email protected] will be done today.

[Agent 488]

start your own paysite. problem solved. the end.

[EvilFubAr]

Originally Posted by Tempest

I have and I do... But exactly how does that help the programs rebill/retention rate? It doesn't and it's that marketing technique that has helped train surfers to type in the domain they see on the watermark.

Agreed, so you have to use whats given to you, or not promote that sponsor. I think you are over-estimating the amount of money you think you are loosing.

Are there any sponsors out there handing out exclusive content without a watermark?

I also agree that the watermark should at least goto the site that you are promoting, and not try to brand a network pass.

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Mutt

So as affiliates you have to be happy with whatever the payout a program is paying you for a sale - or not be happy and promote somebody else.

This is probably the best answer to most gfy threads... Affiliates like to play victim, which is pretty ridiculous considering the hundreds of affiliate programs there are out there, not to mention it's not that hard to start your own paysites.

[Socks]

Shap should start TwistyZ.com

Make it so that nobody can promote it

Re-watermark everything he owns to TwistyZ.com

Claim everything is better and hi-def there.

Cut $5 off the price.

You'd be filling buckets with the extra money, and paying affiliates less in no time! ;)

I highly, highly doubt Shap would make that move on his affiliates, but times are hard! Affiliates would only have two choices - do nothing, or stop promoting a great series of sites that convert.

Lots of people in this industry ARE making this decision.. Pretty rough.

[EvilFubAr]

Send me enough sales and I will brand some content just for you with your domains.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Socks

Yeah man you're right.. Can you send me off a pass today, we never finished it, my fault.

[email protected] will be done today.

Email sent. It's coming from my shavedgoat.com email

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I did. I quoted what you said. Maybe I'm taking it wrong...

What I attempted to say was that if the program closes a site and redirects to another, you can then change your template to match and thus keep your conversion ratios in the same range. The program is already doing it with a redirect but those can be prone to "human error" so better for you to update your template.

I said that if the program CLOSES, you could then use those galleries to promote some other site/program.

I don't "hide" behind my nickname.. Those that I respect and do business with and who I know aren't childish and will take what's said on a board to the "real world", all know who I am. The fact that you would even feel the need to take retribution because of what's said here is exactly why you wouldn't be in that circle.

As I've told you before, I've been in this biz full time for a long time as well. Since 2001. I think you and I have even done traffic trades.

The watermark is about generating type in sales and in no way is about protecting the content. It's about maximizing teh potential for sales based on the fact that the content is being passed around.. It's NOT about protecting the content from being passed around and pirated.