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-   Fucking Around & Business Discussion (https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Dear programs. Stop lying to us about how watermarks are to protect your content. (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=902792)

MaDalton 04-30-2009 07:01 PM
i can imagine working something out with a longterm strong affiliate, but considering how fast some affililiates jump the boat just cause someone else is offering $5 more i can understand when site owners prefer to strenghten their own brand by putting watermarks on their content (besides the protection factor). and surely it makes more sense to concentrate on one brand (like the all access site) than on 20 different site names. but: of course it should be possible for the affililiate to promote that one site too and be credited for it

Steve Awesome 04-30-2009 07:24 PM
"know that the content they see on a gallery is NOT what they will necessarily get if they sign up to the site..."

And it seems by removing the watermark it would only do more to encourage that kind of unethical affiliate behavior. Why don't you just embed the video and provide clear and concise links to the partner's site both around the video and near the top of the page (near the address bar) AND make sure everything in your ad is above the fold. There are a lot of well documented information architure techniques that you can apply to make sure you get your referral $$$. Removing the watermark is not one of them.

EvilFubAr 05-01-2009 11:30 AM
Tempest, your thoughts on :https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/902953-program-crop-url-watermarks-videos.html

12clicks 05-01-2009 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 15804852)
Putting your watermark on the videos and pictures has ZERO to do with protecting it. It's about "BRANDING".. that's a MARKETING term.. You want surfers to remember the name of the site and TYPE IT IN thus gaining the program sales they keep 100% to themselves. And when surfers see videos or pictures on a site that's advertising another site, they will type in the domain thus cutting out the affiliate. Anyone one that doesn't believe that is a moron.. Any program saying it doesn't happen or is "minimal" is a blatant liar. Surfers have been trained over the year to know that the content they see on a gallery is NOT what they will necessarily get if they sign up to the site... Knowing that, they're going to type in the domain to try and ensure they DO get that content because that's what they want and has triggered them to pull out the credit card. Seriously people. If it wasn't making programs more money than they're willing to say do you really think they would be so blatantly doing it more and more? I mean really.. Why do you think Brazzers has been so aggressive about doing it?

Here's the kicker.. In order to "protect" their content, programs could be embedding their copywrite into the videos themselves when they encode it.. VERY FEW do that.. THAT'S what's required to protect their property, NOT watermarking. Any program that isn't embedding the info in their videos is blatantly lying to you about why they're using branding watermarks.

So if you're an affiliate, stop being stupid and fucking yourself out of your sales.. Rip the FHGs to your own server and cut out the fucking watermark.. You WILL see an increase in your sales. And if you're smart, you'll use a template system on the galleries so that if the site goes away or the program starts to redirect it, you can make the changes yourself in just minutes. And if the program goes under, you've got all those galleries and content you can use to promote some other site. Get your head out of your ass.
he's an example of someone who should be dropped as an affiliate by any program he's signed up to. :thumbsup

12clicks 05-01-2009 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sosa (Post 15806362)
If you don't like the watermarking, go buy all your own content like older affiliates had to back in the day.
exactly :thumbsup

Roald 05-01-2009 11:46 AM
I don't get it, isn't all this pretty obvious and going on for years already?

Robbie 05-01-2009 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15808884)
I don't get it, isn't all this pretty obvious and going on for years already?
So were x-sales but you didn't notice them until last year. :1orglaugh

Roald 05-01-2009 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15808895)
So were x-sales but you didn't notice them until last year. :1orglaugh
you fail again Robbie, we didn't notice the hidden ones YOU don't seem to care about :2 cents:

iwantchixx 05-01-2009 12:14 PM
while i agree that a company has every right to brand their product, and it does have it's advantages for both programs and affiliates alike, I do have an issue when the damn watermark consumers way too much space on the content. Kinda hard to jerk my pud to WWW right over the best part of her thighs lol

Tempest 05-01-2009 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilFubAr (Post 15808822)
I think it's hillarious as it's someone yanking everyones chain by pointing out what's allready going on in this business on so many of the tubes out there. And in fact it's something that's been goling on for years and years now in just the regular TGP/MGP arena.. I see it all the time on gallery submissions and I usually forward info on those submitters on to the content/program owners I respect.

Reading comprehension really seems to be lacking with some people in this thread.. No where did I ever say to "steal" a programs content and no where have I said to use an ACTIVE programs content to sell something else. Good god people.

Trend 05-01-2009 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shap (Post 15804892)
I think affiliates should think LONG and HARD before following your advice. Especially to take content and cut out the watermarks. Any affiliate that does that to our content will be immediately terminated and no longer be allowed to use our content.

We watermark our content however it's watermarked with the site you are promoting. Twistys content has a Twistys.com watermark and you promote Twistys.com. If the surfer types in twistys.com your id will be cookied and you'll get credit. You don't get screwed out of anything.

That being said it's very important for us to have our watermark on our videos and pictures. Our content is the highest quality and hottest content out there. Most surfers don't give a shit about looking at the embedded info. It is important to us that when they see our high quality content they see the Twistys logo. We want them to know that Twistys = HOT Babes and Smoking Hot Content!

Well said :thumbsup

12clicks 05-01-2009 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantchixx (Post 15808982)
Kinda hard to jerk my pud to WWW right over the best part of her thighs lol
a keen business mind would call that "pushing them to buy a membership"

Shap 05-01-2009 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sosa (Post 15806362)
If you don't like the watermarking, go buy all your own content like older affiliates had to back in the day.
well said

Barefootsies 05-01-2009 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sosa (Post 15806362)
If you don't like the watermarking, go buy all your own content like older affiliates had to back in the day.
:2 cents:

Robbie 05-01-2009 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15808900)
you fail again Robbie, we didn't notice the hidden ones YOU don't seem to care about :2 cents:
I don't fail Roald...I didn't know about x-sells either until a couple of years ago. My point is you were promoting the stuff all along just like I was. So YOU fail. Smartass. :)

Vexes 05-01-2009 01:42 PM
Why don't you produce your own content and paysite then sport.

Without someone those companies who build the affiliate
pay sites you would have no where to monetize your traffic.

This industry was headed to ruin when the war for affiliate traffic prompted
affiliates program to do everything but wipe the ass of any moron with an
internet connection who claims they are a porn webmaster.

Same with all the parties and conventions, giving away more and content.

fuzebox 05-01-2009 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum-x (Post 15805941)
#3 - You embed an image in your page that sets a cookie for bangbros.com
That way, if the surfer types in bangbros.com - your cookie is magically there.
There's no secret to this - I *always* did this when promoting galleries to prevent leaks
Some people would call this cookie stuffing :winkwink:

BV 05-01-2009 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantchixx (Post 15808982)
while i agree that a company has every right to brand their product, and it does have it's advantages for both programs and affiliates alike, I do have an issue when the damn watermark consumers way too much space on the content. Kinda hard to jerk my pud to WWW right over the best part of her thighs lol
that's the whole idea, make it hard to jerk off to so they buy a membership

bdld 05-01-2009 02:18 PM
how do sponsors feel about "cookie stuffing"?

d-null 05-01-2009 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzebox (Post 15809298)
Some people would call this cookie stuffing :winkwink:
as long as the page that is referring that cookie-stuff is also promoting that site, I can't see why there would be any problem with it?

on the other hand, if an affiliate tries to do that on their main page or stuff multiple cookies of other programs that are not the focus of the specific page, that wouldn't be cool

Roald 05-02-2009 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15809208)
I don't fail Roald...I didn't know about x-sells either until a couple of years ago. My point is you were promoting the stuff all along just like I was. So YOU fail. Smartass. :)
yes we did, we cleaned up the biggest offenders though. What did you do? Oh wait defend them yes ;)

No idea why we have this convo in this thread and why you had to start it though. you fail sir!

Robbie 05-02-2009 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15810775)
yes we did, we cleaned up the biggest offenders though. What did you do? Oh wait defend them yes ;)

No idea why we have this convo in this thread and why you had to start it though. you fail sir!
Goddamn you are so far off base. The point I TRIED to make to you was that the x-sells were there all along. For many years. And that they were not the worst thing ever done. I said over and over that I still consider the dialer that was used that took millions of dollars from people to be the worst scam of all times. And I think that exposing our business to surfers is a huge mistake. Things should be handled in private. If you call that defending them then so be it. At least I didn't take money from some of them to keep their links up and use the x-sells as the extortion tool. And I didn't act "holier than thou" about it either. I was 100% correct when I said you and every other webmaster raising hell about it had unknowingly been promoting it for years and years. Just like we all foolishly promoted geo redirects and didn't realize it and just like we all fought with programs over the million pop ups back in the day that would shut down a computer and just like the .exe installs that were downloaded on people.
But no Roald, you're so intelligent that you have decided all of that was nothing compared to a x-sell. Okay. Whatever.

Roald 05-02-2009 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15810780)
Goddamn you are so far off base. The point I TRIED to make to you was that the x-sells were there all along. For many years. And that they were not the worst thing ever done. I said over and over that I still consider the dialer that was used that took millions of dollars from people to be the worst scam of all times. And I think that exposing our business to surfers is a huge mistake. Things should be handled in private. If you call that defending them then so be it. At least I didn't take money from some of them to keep their links up and use the x-sells as the extortion tool. And I didn't act "holier than thou" about it either. I was 100% correct when I said you and every other webmaster raising hell about it had unknowingly been promoting it for years and years. Just like we all foolishly promoted geo redirects and didn't realize it and just like we all fought with programs over the million pop ups back in the day that would shut down a computer and just like the .exe installs that were downloaded on people.
But no Roald, you're so intelligent that you have decided all of that was nothing compared to a x-sell. Okay. Whatever.
ok final word on this as I don't want to waste this thread with this crap again. I know about xsales beeing here for years. I did not know until last year about the hidden ones. Hidden as in you don't see them on the join page. Geez :2 cents:

Robbie 05-02-2009 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15810787)
ok final word on this as I don't want to waste this thread with this crap again. I know about xsales beeing here for years. I did not know until last year about the hidden ones. Hidden as in you don't see them on the join page. Geez :2 cents:
And I think hidden ones are bullshit too. Basically stealing. And so were all those other things that I listed as well...only they stole a lot more. That was my only point in those old debates, but of course since it's GFY everything is always out of context. I just don't appreciate your attitude and insinuations about me. I've busted my ass in this business for a long time, and I can ignore people running their mouths that don't mean shit. But when you insinuate that I'm somehow a bad guy...I have a problem with that. You aren't one of these clowns on here trying to start trouble with everyone. So for you to think or insinuate that I am somehow a bad guy really bothers me. If I'm "shady" as you are asserting then why do business with me? Take my shit down if you don't like me or think I'm "bad" in some way. I'd rather shake hands and call it a misunderstanding. But either way is fine with me.

Roald 05-02-2009 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15810789)
And I think hidden ones are bullshit too. Basically stealing. And so were all those other things that I listed as well...only they stole a lot more. That was my only point in those old debates, but of course since it's GFY everything is always out of context. I just don't appreciate your attitude and insinuations about me. I've busted my ass in this business for a long time, and I can ignore people running their mouths that don't mean shit. But when you insinuate that I'm somehow a bad guy...I have a problem with that. You aren't one of these clowns on here trying to start trouble with everyone. So for you to think or insinuate that I am somehow a bad guy really bothers me. If I'm "shady" as you are asserting then why do business with me? Take my shit down if you don't like me or think I'm "bad" in some way. I'd rather shake hands and call it a misunderstanding. But either way is fine with me.
Take your shit down and give up our top 10 spot on your program? Hell no, I don't think it is a good thing to have a board argument like this ruin a perfectly good business relationship.

Robbie 05-02-2009 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15810797)
Take your shit down and give up our top 10 spot on your program? Hell no, I don't think it is a good thing to have a board argument like this ruin a perfectly good business relationship.
I don't either. But damn it...I don't like working with people who don't at the very least respect my experiences and ideas. Whenever you post anything in reply to me, it's always with disdain. I don't like it, and I take it rather personal. I know I wouldn't do that to someone like you. So it bewilders me that you would do it to me.

Roald 05-02-2009 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15810799)
I don't either. But damn it...I don't like working with people who don't at the very least respect my experiences and ideas. Whenever you post anything in reply to me, it's always with disdain. I don't like it, and I take it rather personal. I know I wouldn't do that to someone like you. So it bewilders me that you would do it to me.
You want a hug to make up now? That's going a bit too far Robbie ;)))

Robbie 05-02-2009 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roald (Post 15810801)
You want a hug to make up now? That's going a bit too far Robbie ;)))
Eh, you're right. I'm overreacting. I'll take a hug and a handshake in L.A. :)

onlymovies 05-02-2009 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socks (Post 15805068)
Some bigger programs even make it worse, by making their "portal" site not available for promotion by affiliates. BangBros.com for example isn't on the list of available linkcodes, yet all bangbros content for ALL sites has the BangBros.com watermark.

That means that even when people type "Bang Bros" into Google, it won't go to an affiliate. That's the double edged sword that this is.

I just reviewed the HomeMadeCash sites from NS Cash, and they all have their main "Homevideo Pass" or whatever the site was called watermark.

I've even seen programs going back and RE-WATERMARKING all their content for this very purpose.

Just an fyi Socks....the "portal site" (Homemade Video Pass) within Homemade Cash, IS A PART of the program and promoted by many many affiliates on it's own. :winkwink:

gideongallery 05-02-2009 05:40 AM
the only thing i agree with in the original post is that program owners who mislead their affiliates by claiming they are doing it to "protect" their content.

Quite simply affiliate programs should come out and make the admission they are doing in this thread within their aff. program. They should clearly state that are branding with a watermark to make extra sales.

HorseShit 05-02-2009 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15804907)
And if I catch an affiliate doing that I'll term them so fast it'll make their head spin.
Who Cares? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

LadyMischief 05-02-2009 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest (Post 15806183)
You clearly don't read much..
I read quite well and my comprehension is fine. You, on the other hand, make it very obvious that you don't pay production costs, staff to maintain production, or do anything other than promote other people's products. That being the case, your sense of entitlement is astounding.

Robbie 05-02-2009 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin (Post 15811183)
Who Cares? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh
My guess would be the affiliates who are making money with me. You know, people who are actually in this business. :thumbsup

commonsense 05-02-2009 11:58 AM
The collective IQ of gfy dropped because of this thread.




Tempest is the next minusonebit

BV 05-02-2009 03:43 PM
Watermarking is not too rip off affiliate sales, I want affiliates to make good sales so they keep sending more. duh

I watermark so when my stuff gets ripped off, posted and hotlinked all over the net you have a chance of getting something out of it from your brand.

Or when members join and download your clips and post them to tubes and torrents, whatever it may be.

I do disagree with sponsors that brand with a different domain than the paysite. That's flat out sneaky. I don't do that.

However I believe the main reason they do this is because they are lazy and it takes so much more space and time. A lot of that content is used on many different sites and to re-encode the clips with different matching urls takes double, triple, the time and space, or so on, depending how many sites.

For sure you don't expect us to put content out there with no branding at all on it.

That's the stupidest thing any site owner could do.

HomerSimpson 05-02-2009 03:56 PM
here's my :2 cents: on this oen
for example we have paysite: SiteName.com

- watermarking content with SiteName is ok
- watermarking content with site logo is ok (if it does not contain full url)
- watermarking content with SiteName.com is NOT ok (traffic leak)
- watermarking content with SiteNetwork.com - also not ok but (traffic leak but not that bad as one above IMO)

CyberHustler 05-02-2009 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerSimpson (Post 15812372)
here's my :2 cents: on this oen
for example we have paysite: SiteName.com

- watermarking content with SiteName is ok
- watermarking content with site logo is ok (if it does not contain full url)
- watermarking content with SiteName.com is NOT ok (traffic leak)
- watermarking content with SiteNetwork.com - also not ok but (traffic leak but not that bad as one above IMO)
:Oh crap

quantum-x 05-02-2009 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerSimpson (Post 15812372)
here's my :2 cents: on this oen
for example we have paysite: SiteName.com

- watermarking content with SiteName is ok
- watermarking content with site logo is ok (if it does not contain full url)
- watermarking content with SiteName.com is NOT ok (traffic leak)
- watermarking content with SiteNetwork.com - also not ok but (traffic leak but not that bad as one above IMO)
Set cookies for the watermark URLs, and the issue is sorted.
If for some fucked up reason you can't promote the network site, promote someone else.

Iron Fist 05-02-2009 05:30 PM
Well.. I for one could care less about content being watermarked.... because if any lawyer comes calling, I just redirect them to the sponsor. It really is that simple.

And secondly, I completely agree that since I had no hand in producing and paying for the content, I am merely here for distribution and promotion, I honestly can't justify removing the watermark and being able to sleep at night... maybe I have morals and it's just the right thing to do.

Thirdly, If I don't like a sponsors actions, I pull all links and move on to another one, there's plenty out there for the picking. The sponsors who know I am dedicated to their programs know who they are and I know they appreciate my efforts, as small or insignificant to the larger whales out there.

Anyways, just my :2 cents:

Robo 05-02-2009 09:35 PM
Yes, watermark on any content should be visible as some graphic logo of the program or some letters of for example program name or owner name, something like GFY. It should never be full url of the site. I never use content with url as watermark. Some program owners think that webmasters are idiots...


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