I DO agree with you 100% about that. And Socks laid it out nicely too.

When they do that kind of watermark it is definitely a way to use your traffic and not give you credit for it. If that was what you were talking about the entire time, then my apologies.

But I still can't agree with your advice to steal their content. Instead of getting frustrated, remember that 2 rights don't make a wrong. Easiest thing is to just not promote programs that do that sort of thing. And maybe, just maybe you should change your opinion of my "shit" and start working and promoting people like me that do all of our own work and are NOT big monolithic companies. Just a thought.

Very cool, way to go Pimp Roll!!!

It's because they're Canadians y'know. :winkwink:

Yeah man you're right.. Can you send me off a pass today, we never finished it, my fault.

[email protected] will be done today.

start your own paysite. problem solved. the end.

Agreed, so you have to use whats given to you, or not promote that sponsor. I think you are over-estimating the amount of money you think you are loosing.

Are there any sponsors out there handing out exclusive content without a watermark?

I also agree that the watermark should at least goto the site that you are promoting, and not try to brand a network pass.

This is probably the best answer to most gfy threads... Affiliates like to play victim, which is pretty ridiculous considering the hundreds of affiliate programs there are out there, not to mention it's not that hard to start your own paysites.

Shap should start TwistyZ.com

Make it so that nobody can promote it

Re-watermark everything he owns to TwistyZ.com

Claim everything is better and hi-def there.

Cut $5 off the price.

You'd be filling buckets with the extra money, and paying affiliates less in no time! ;)

I highly, highly doubt Shap would make that move on his affiliates, but times are hard! Affiliates would only have two choices - do nothing, or stop promoting a great series of sites that convert.

Lots of people in this industry ARE making this decision.. Pretty rough.

Send me enough sales and I will brand some content just for you with your domains.

Email sent. It's coming from my shavedgoat.com email

What I attempted to say was that if the program closes a site and redirects to another, you can then change your template to match and thus keep your conversion ratios in the same range. The program is already doing it with a redirect but those can be prone to "human error" so better for you to update your template.

I said that if the program CLOSES, you could then use those galleries to promote some other site/program.

I don't "hide" behind my nickname.. Those that I respect and do business with and who I know aren't childish and will take what's said on a board to the "real world", all know who I am. The fact that you would even feel the need to take retribution because of what's said here is exactly why you wouldn't be in that circle.

As I've told you before, I've been in this biz full time for a long time as well. Since 2001. I think you and I have even done traffic trades.

The watermark is about generating type in sales and in no way is about protecting the content. It's about maximizing teh potential for sales based on the fact that the content is being passed around.. It's NOT about protecting the content from being passed around and pirated.

Cut the watermarks out of any content I own and I will terminate your payouts but keep your traffic. I may also consider taking legal action against you.

Yes, watermarks are for branding and since I own the content, I have the right to brand it. Since YOU do not own it, you have ZERO right to remove my watermarks.

what if some dude sees a girl on my site and goes to your review site to see if it's any good and decides to sign up and you get credit for the sale?

whoa, i think i got ripped off there somehow ...! i think you owe me some $$$!

where does it end. this is a fucking a joke.

if you don't like the promo materials don't promote the program. if you can't find anyone who isn't "fucking you around" start your own paysite. simple.

Honestly the way most people do ccbill links, especially hosted gallery ones. The surfer gets a cookie set when they hit the gallery. Unless you have never seen people giving people long ccbill gallery links before and if that is the case you either do not promote many ccbill sponsors or something.

I love Claudia Marie. I have traffic for her site. But you and I constantly bash heads and so there's no motivation for me to put in the time and effort to send you guys any of that traffic or sales.

Let me reiterate I FUCKING LOVE Claudia Marie and those gorgeous tits of hers... ha ha ha

I don't promote your stuff and never will so no worries there...

Really an interested concept.

Back when I was a webmaster,99% of all programs didn't have free content available.

The programs that did, had maybe 10-20 picture sets.

It was a general understand that if you did not like what programs was giving to you for FREE, you could go to a content shop and buy something you liked. Including content to make your own banners!

Again it was also the general assumption that you worked WITH the sponsors, sometimes even FOR the sponsor, it wasn't the sponsor working for you.

The webmasters that make the sponsors money now, is not the webmasters that suck in 50K hosted galleries and 100K free FLV movies to automatically post to their sites, traffic to that will be one in a dozen and most of the time you'll hardly be able to measure a click through ratio yet alone a signup ratio :2 cents:

Anyone that really wish special treatments should select a handful of affiliate programs to work with, focus their efforts on selling the sites rather than linking to them, I'll pretty much guarantee anyone that works with a descent sponsor and bring in anything more than 1-2 sales per day consistently will be more than happy to provide you with further tools to improve your conversions and sales.

Treat it like a business and do the math, calculate if the value of the revenues you bring in would justify setting time aside to do whatever you ask. :2 cents:


This isn't aimed at anyone specific just based on constant "thread titles" I've seen recently

Why are you so angry? Let your traffic do the talking....

We only bash heads because you were totally disrespectful to me. I don't mind a heated argument between two people with differing experiences and viewpoints. But you've taken it pretty personal on me a couple of times and hurt my internet feelings. :(
You want to bury the hatchet, I'm totally into that. I never came on GFY in the beginning to make enemies. I originally came here to do business and make friends. We both know the place has gotten so trollish that it hasn't been very conducive to that in the last few years.

But I'm reaching my hand out now to you. :) You don't need to send me any traffic or anything like that. We'll both do just fine without the other...I'm just saying I'd like to bury the hatchet.

Now come over here and give me an internet hug.

As if you have any idea what I do and or don't own. :1orglaugh

I promote a lot of ccbill programs and very few do what you're talking about becuase it creates this massive raw/uni click number that makes it so you can't see what your conversion rates... Most programs are using the woj script (or something similar) for their FHGs.

tempest, you're promoting AaronM's work almost no matter where you aim your traffic I'm afraid... He's uhm, guilty by association. :winkwink:

:thumbsupWell said.

And for the record...Although my statement quoted you, it applies to anybody who tries pulling that shit. Just telling people to do it makes you a thief in my book.

I hope the sponsors on your granny tube blog ...(?) site will do the same with you for watermarking their watermarked content (shit, this getting confusing aint it?)


Thanks for heads up, go shake hands with teh ugly hairy fat bitch carrying the same attitude. I wont even quote from the rest of your shines, this one delivers enough.


Dont worry, them encourage cookie stuffing. (feel the sarcasm, he just didnt get his morning coffee... :anon
... wait what?)


Who cares about shitty fhgs anyways? :2 cents:
But still, if they have it in their terms to not touch the watermark, doing so would be stealing. Besides todays surfer knows perfectly if he is on an affiliate site or paysite. Actually todays surfer uses affiliate sites to find the content he wants (this carries naturally a preview of the product, call it a demo if it makes it easier). Its amazing how some of you think every single buyer is a first timer on the internet. Wake up, a whole generation passed by.
If the surfer is looking for free content, he will care very little about the watermark in it (except that its annoying, but still, free).

Thus i cant accept my head in my ass.

I know that.. But that's promoting the companies he's licensed his content to, not companies he owns... His content is hot shit and all over the place.

And if you're watermarking the content to promote a different site, then you're attempting to steal from me making you a thief in my book.. If you're watermarking your content for the site that's being promoted, then you and I will never have a problem.

I actually agree with you in a roundabout kinda way.

Perectly willing to burry the hatchet.. I'm having my man period right now though so any hugs will need to wait for my PMSing to end.

So I guess consummating our relationship will have to wait.. :1orglaugh

None of which you will get paid for since you most likely violated their TOS by doing so.

Yeah... what's funny is that I had a long time program owner that I had a close relationship with actually tell me to cut the watermark off their content in order to get more sales... :1orglaugh

Are you pissed that this one program owner gave you some benefits that others do not get because you have an established relationship with or are you pissed that other program owners you do not have an established relationship with do not give you these benefits?

Or are you simply concerned about your fellow webmasters ? What about the content producers? Licenses is normally issued on a domain basis unless it's exclusive, what's the best way to track that ? What about 2257s etc, should the sponsor be responsible for that as well ? (the content on your server, not theirs)

I think doing it with the program's blessing is significantly different than taking matters into your own hand. :2 cents:

My comment about the program owner was to show that the programs are well aware that their watermark takes sales away from affiliates.

What was this thread about? It was about programs saying that their watermarks were about "protecting" content which it is not what they're doing when they put the watermark on there.

I'm pissed at programs for blatently trying to steal sales from me.. I'm pissed at cry baby affiliates whining about it and then not actually doing anything about it.. My first post was addressed to programs, but I also told affiliates to "get their head out of their ass". I'm an equal opportunity whiner.

Out of the hundred or so programs I promote, there's not one that gives a shit if I host the FHGs myself regardless of what their TOS might say... Many of them even offer that as an option and many more offer the same content for affiliates to build their own galleries.

Once more... This thread is about the purpose of the watermark the programs put on their content.

That was assuming they've been to the tour. If they don't hit the tour obviously that doesn't apply.

http://www.spankwire.com/Courtney-Si...seekPercent=70


no watermark or even sponsor links are necessary when the product being sold is not paysite memberships (especially when all the content is already right there in great quality for free)

Just one thing to add, and I am pretty sure it won't be very popular..... Affiliates are upset that they can lose sales when surfers get to the sites through a channel different than the path they have set-up. Certainly a concern and something I would be wanting to protect if I were an affiliate.

However, I don't think anyone ever addresses the fact of what other business/sales model do you know of where the "sales-person" gets a 50/50 cut with the business? Seriously??? My spouse has worked in Sales for 20 years now and her largest Commission rate ever was 10%. I heard of someone making 25% once and he covered 100% of his expenses which were far and beyond what I know any affiliate could blow on bandwidth.

I my experience, a 50/50 split with affiliates has meant approximately a 70/30 share over time. Some affiliates I assume are closer to 50/50 while others have traffic that bleeds out and doesn't get credited. As a program owner, I am fine with that share ratio and affiliates that complain about it need to look at the other side of the coin. Where else will you make 50% on a sale? If you know how to sell to your surfers, you won't have any bleeds and you will be better off than the next guy.

Just like in the mainstream world, if you can get another salesguy to do the same job for less, odds are you will take him instead of your higher priced previous one. If we as program owners setup sales rules and regulations that affiliates don't agree with, they can either accept them and make money together or you can go sell someone else that has rules/regs that you are happier with. Pretty simple concepts really.

With that in mind, I would never agree with an affiliate trashing my watermark. I put on it what I wish. You sell it if you want to. An agreement with an affiliate is not an equal partnership except monetarily (and many times an affiliate takes 60 or 70%). You are an independent contractor and have no say in how the program is run. Your sole purpose is to sell and in that purpose you make program owners happy. Believing that you get to make decisions which affect the operations of the program is silly. I would never come to you and tell you how to operate your TGP/Tube/Blog, etc.. you would tell me in no uncertain terms to GFY...

my :2 cents:

The sponsors have every right on earth to put this on THEIR content, you have every right on earth to promote something else with YOUR traffic.
Most affiliates don't care, that's your advantage, that's more sales for you to pocket. The worse your "link trades" is doing at marketing the more sales you will pocket.
I would change the sentense "Out of the hundred or so programs I promote" to be "Out of the hundred or so programs I use and the selected I promote"

I'm pretty sure the majority of the sponsors put watermarks on the content since most of their affiliates is using 100s of various affiliate programs but they don't get regular sales, in return for their free content at least they get some branding that help also the active affiliates in bringing in more sales since it gives a higher consumer confidence :2 cents:

I didn't run websites for years though, so my idea of what you need to do to make a successful website that generate good revenues might be completely wrong, I just know how it used to be :winkwink:

Why would I ever watermark content to promote a different site?

Obviously you and I already have a problem or you would not have posted:

"I don't promote your stuff and never will so no worries there..."

Very good points Kevin.

My only addition/correction would be that this is a change in terms that wasn't discussed. Like a baseball player makes a deal one day, then the team decides a month later to make a major change to his contract without talking with him first. He is "free to play somewhere else if he wants"....

When I agree to promote a program, many times I put in a lot of hours of work. When things like this happen, I can't just easily 'promote someone else' when I don't like something. It's a change to our business relationship that wasn't discussed, planned for, and is completely one sided.

No affiliate is here claiming it's bad to brand your content, or that we don't like your watermarks, or that you shouldn't protect your business.

However clearly it's a big step to change what site is branded (and marketed!) through the watermark.

It's basically saying you'll do what the hell you want with affiliate traffic.

Is that a good precedent in program/affiliate relationships going forward?