tranza

I just got this e-mail from them:

Attention OrgyCash Members!

We have been hard at work in 2009 trying to make OrgyCash the best
affiliate program it can be, and that means preparing more sites for
promotion and revamping our back end to ensure smoother functioning for
you, the webmasters. Our aim is create an affiliate program that's as
user-friendly as possible and one that is not plagued by fraudulent
webmasters trying to take advantage of the system. For these reasons, we
have decided to make some minor adjustments to our payment policies.

1) In an attempt to combat any fraudulent activity we will now be charging
the webmasters for any chargeback fines (24.95 Euros) that may be caused by
stolen credit cards or other such reasons. This will not effect 99% of
you, only those abusing the system.
2) We will be deducting a 5% credit card fee from all signups from now on.
We will continue to cover the rest of the credit card fees that our company
incurs.
3) There will now be a charge of US$2.00 for all epassporte transactions.

We hope you can understand and appreciate the need to make such changes at
this time in order to keep our affiliate program the best it can be. We
look forward to growing with all of you in 2009 and keeping Orgycash at the
forefront of affiliate programs!

Orgycash

Does this mean that the actual payou right now will be 45%? And on thop of that, if any chargebacks occur, it's going to come out of the affiliate pocket?

Shouldn't fraudulent webmasters simply be terminated, without the good webmasters having to paid for other people mistakes?

What do you guys think?

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

hjnet

Hmm, I wouldn't have a problem with the chargeback fine, as I almost never have any chargebacks. But the 5% CC Fee and epass fee is just a way to decrease affiliate payouts, I can't see how that would make the program better, maybe better for the owners

But I don't promote them anyway....

Don Pueblo

if you send a chargeback, you eat the chargeback. take responsibility for your actions. thats common logic.

__________________
Don Pueblo
Worlds Best Latin Lover

Ozarkz

I don't believe the affiliate should be held responsible for chargebacks.

Especially considering the shady practices a lot of programs participate in.

I want proof that a surfer charged back because of something that was my fault.

You gotta be soo fucking careful who you promote.. You need to know them and their paysites inside and out.

A lot of webmasters are risking losing their own traffic promoting bullshit programs.

tranza

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with the chargeback thing, as I hardly ever have chargebacks.

But if you add that to the other 2 "fees" they are adding to affiliates, it makes me wonder if they are going through some financial problems.

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

marketsmart

i generate most of my sales using stolen credit cards, so i really cant comment on this...

Dirty F

How about if the member area is shit. Or the customer service is non existant. Still your fault?

DWB

$2 epass fee is pretty normal. No problem.

Affiliate eating the CBs... debatable but you should take responsibility for your sales. No problem.

5% credit card fee? I find that very odd and I would have a problem with this.

With that said, if they just came out and said we are lowering your payment to 45%, either you deal with it or you don't.

45% - 50%, does it really matter?

Furious_Male

Yes you should eat the chargeback but paying the fine on top of it all is pushing it. To many factors out of the affiliates control (member area, quality of member support etc.).

This may help push card scammers away from them though. They will just move on to greener pastures.

They are going to have to watch for joe jobbers as well.

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Klen

How much i know eating chargeback fees is normal procedure,i been in minus at lightspeedcash once because of it.But that credit card fee is kind a strange especially considering they charge in euros instead dollars which means higher fee then usual adult membership fee.

Why

i think its crappy.

they don't want to tighten their belts so they are taking it out of affiliates share to cover their costs. its a partnership for a reasons, both ends hold up their ends. in this case one end is reneging and taking money off their partners plate. i think maybe if i was sending them a lot of traffic i would start finding it a new home, as this is certainly a sign of other possible problems.

Antonio

lol, 5% fee??? When 90% ot the other sponsors simply shave like mad??? I don't know what your stats look like but many of the paysite sponsors I send to went from 1:400 to 1:10 000, and don't tell me there's no shaving involved, fuck the tubes and the economy, I don't think less money and free videos add up to 25 TIMES less sales...

Tom_PM

CC companies should prosecute fraud. Too bad they have no incentive to do so, do they?

__________________
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tranza

I don't see the logic there. Card scammers should be terminated. Without ANY pay. Period.

Real webmasters/affiliates shouldn't have to pay because of a minority of scammers.

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

Fletch XXX

software costs what it does because of theft/piracy, insurance rates are what they are because of the uninsured, it keeps goin and going, the little guy ALWAYS pays for the next idiot.

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Klen

You know,you could be right.I promoting now one old sponsor but good one and it have ratio 1:91.Total surprise to average ratios like 1:1000 and 1:5000 on another sponsors.

tranza

We are not talking about huge numbers here (like the software or insurance industry).

How many **active** webmaster must they have? 100? 200? We are talking about what? 10-20 scammers at the most?

Simply delete their accounts, don't pay nothing and move on. I'm sure it could be done by using a simple script.

No reason to piss off people that are promoting them. Good active affiliates are not easy to come by these days.

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

tranza

Care to share which sponsor?

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

Fletch XXX

I know youre pissed about this, and since it doesnt affect me at all, I was just posting that the little guy is more often than not, expected to cover company loss. Doesnt really have anything to do with "huge numbers" or not, but how companies incur profit/loss and make it up.

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Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life

eating the chargeback is i guess doable. it could be worse...

i had an entire payout terminated from a network a year or so ago over one fraudulent sale. one jackass carded a pass, got caught, and it cost me like 15 other sales in the process. absolute fucking bullshit. the program says they refunded every card the signed up up me in that period. i would have liked to see some proof of that....

tranza

Anyway, I just checked, and I haven't had 1 single chargeback over the past 2 years I have been promoting them. Not even a single refund. So I probably won't be affected by this at all.

But the 5% decrease on the payouts will have quite a negative impact.

__________________
I'm just a newbie.

OneWhoKnows

I never had any chargeback with them aswell and only had like 3 CB's at all in 2008. But it could happen and I don't pay for something I have absolutely no influence on. Links dropped. Too bad, as they looked like a really good sponsor.

Qbert

Better check the CB policy for the other sponsors you promote. I think you'll find that many already have a similar policy in place.

OneWhoKnows

All I can say is that no other sponsor charge me a fine for the few CB's I had so far. If a sponsor does, I'd probably drop it aswell.

Pornopat

The 2$ epassporte charge is ok with me. The fine on chargebacks is not nice. The 5% billing costs suck and is basically lowering the payout with 5%.
The most unprofessional thing about this though is that they send out this email now but allready take 5% from my february earnings. This is crazy. What if they decide to lower payouts to 10% and only tell me 2 months later?

Over the years I have send Orgy Cash about 1 million dollars worth of sales. Looks like it is time to move on.

__________________
https://stripcash.com/sign-up/?userI...fff832eb95ab6a

qxm

Ohh well.. I'll have to buy beer that is 5% cheaper.....

__________________

Quagmire

Its really a bullshit way to make their payouts look higher. Just drop your claimed revshare by 5% instead of trying to hide it in the small print.

__________________

woj

I thought affiliates always eat chargebacks/credits on a revshare sponsor... and it's not like this is actually a "fine", they just deduct any chargebacked sales, no?

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Bravo

45% partnership with 24.95 Euros penalty for each CB ?

not good. a lof of programs provides better solutions like 60-70% for affiliates, not good for so serious program like orgycash ;(

__________________

Pornopat

Noops...this is an extra fine...so dinner and desert.

__________________
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woj

that's ridiculous... wtf are they smoking?

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Sausage

damn. time to pull links it seems

Another good program bites the dust.

CyberHustler

Abracadabra_nl

This sucks. I don?t know of any other program that charges 25 euros for chargeback fees, nor do I know any that deduct 5% credit card fee for every sign up. What especially sucks is that all this has already come into effect one month ago.

Four years ago, when I started to promote Orgymax, everybody was talking about them. It?s a pity that they haven?t evolved since then.

Yes the content of their websites is still top quality. But sadly I can?t say that about the way Orgymax is being run. ?Amateuristic? ? that?s the first word that crosses my mind.

And this latest news about them only confirms that. Why this step? Is this a sign that business is not going well?

It?s a pity that the owner doesn?t seem to be interested in Orgmax anymore. Trying to contact him is equal to a mission impossible.

Hopefully Orgymax will give an explanation in this thread. But does the Orgymax management even care to read the most important webmaster board in the biz?

The past four years I have been sending Orgymax at least several hundred thousand of dollars worth of sales. I agree with Pornopat. It?s time to move on.

br4sco

couldnt have said it better.

Oracle Porn

lowering %5 from the affiliates cut is actually %10 of what the affiliate make on each sale

if each signup is $30 - $15/$15 - $1.5(%5 of total signup which is %10 of the affiliate pay) = $13.5

I dont know about you but %10 is a nice number to lose, or to earn, depends on which side you are on.

__________________

baddog

They seem to think that their affiliates are seeking stolen credit card traffic. I hear it converts amazingly well.

Socks

So lemme get this straight...

10% loss to the affiliates on sales
4% loss for epassporte fee (based on a $50 min payout)
And there's now a risk of LOSING $25 on each sale, if they charge back for whatever reason?

Gee, where do I signup?

V_RocKs

Smoking them crack rocks!

LeRoy

Damn fraud

We deal with fraud all day long in the cam biz. Just sux

__________________

MrMaxwell

Only way I'd pay chargeback "fines" would be if there were NO upsells. You want to enjoy upselling my traffic after I sign it, eat the god damned fees or minimize chargebacks by delivering what's sold!

Vjo

Simple rule I now have: I only promote ccbill and nats

This VSXBill Orgy cash uses.. You can't check a period longer than 90 days?

Lame. I know they have some good niches but also with the Euro conversion, do any sites sell that charge more than 29.95 today..

I can't sell stuff above 29.95. Orgycash, Sextronix, ect how bout going and seeing what a seller like Nasty Dollars or 21st Sextury or Naughty America sell porn for.

Then maybe you would convert better and all this would not be nec.

You charge too much for your Euro made porn.

Sorry bout ranting but I haven't posted in a while. ; )

SmokeyTheBear

seems like alot of sponsors have been doing this . not to pick on orgycash or include them but i have a feeling the theme right now is "bang the shit out of the card , if you succeed cha-ching , if you don't , blame the affiliate and recoup

__________________
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SmokeyTheBear

i also wouldnt doubt that serious fraudsters are causing a problem, instead of going for just pps , they go revshare spread the signups amongst sponsors from legit cards collect the cash then charge everything back 3 months later

__________________
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LiveDose

My thoughts exactly. No way.

__________________

sortie

I wonder how many noobs will join and wait 3 months to get their very first sign up ever
and see it get charged back 3 days later.

__________________

crockett

Read closer... not only will the affiliate "eat" the charge back but it looks like they plan on fining the affiliate $25 on top of that. Meaning it would cost you money for a sale that charged back.

The way I see it is as an affiliate it's my job to send the traffic to the site and pre sell it. It's up to the program to convert that traffic via their tour and keep the customers happy.

A chargeback is not something I can do anything about, assuming I'm not sending fraudulent sales. If a customer charges back, that means either they are scamming on their own accord or the affiliate program didn't keep them happy, which is something me as an affiliate has no control over.

If I were promoting them, I'd stop and hell I don't send many CB's percentage wise.

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Snake Doctor

At the end of the day, 5% isn't a big deal. If you're doing enough volume with them for 5% to be a big deal, you have (or should have) a custom payout worked out with them anyways, so this doesn't apply to you.

The fines should be split, just like everything else in a revshare program. We should split the revenues, processor fees, and chargeback fines the same.
We're either partners or we're not.

In this particular case
2) We will be deducting a 5% credit card fee from all signups from now on.
We will continue to cover the rest of the credit card fees that our company
incurs.

It look as if they're paying the CC fees out of their end already...so 5% is still cheaper than splitting it.

__________________
sig too big

riddler

they are charging the customer %5 credit card fee or the affiliate?

if its the customer then they could loose visa/mastercard processing, its against merchant agreements 9 times out of 10.