Is a company in debt 35 billion worth saving? - GoFuckYourself.com

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Pressed for details, the administration officials said GM has made no progress in talks with its bond holders. It has about $35 billion in debt, $27 billion of it unsecured and at risk if GM is forced to file for bankruptcy.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miam...ry/974648.html

why should tax payers be forced to pay off 35 billion in debt? These companies deserve their grave

Where are the Republicans and libertarians in this country???

StuartD · 03-30-2009, 04:51 AM

I'm torn. I think that a company that fails... fails. It deserves to fade away if it can't survive.

However, I also understand the need to preserve such a massive number of jobs... not just within that one company but with all the companies dependent on it.

I think these bailouts send a very bad message to these greedy bastards that screwed up things in the first place. Now they know that they can screw up even bigger in the future with no worries because the government will always be there to bail them out.

kmanrox · 03-30-2009, 04:54 AM

i'm going to have to say no.. the company should burn.. why not find the most productive or individuals with the most potential, pay off their 10k+ debts, teach them how to not run it up again (would require little education, especially since most would be too scared to ever run up debt again I'd imagine).

Surely that would be more productive in the end than saving a company that fails as bad as this.

That's a rock solid business plan, we'll lose 65bn and get the government to cover it then we break even! All in favor say Aye!

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

I'm torn. I think that a company that fails... fails. It deserves to fade away if it can't survive.

However, I also understand the need to preserve such a massive number of jobs... not just within that one company but with all the companies dependent on it.

i can understand that, but if the company couldnt be successful in its existence without government bailout, how will it work afterwards?

this is just giving money away for FAILURE.

they failed to run a successful business and i am tired about hearing "jobs" - find another one.

my pregnant sister in law has TWO JOBS lol

Voodoo · 03-30-2009, 04:57 AM

It depends, can someone else step in and make it profitable? Can the assets be reassigned to new functions & processes in order to turn it into a new business model?

As it stands, it should burn. But, with some ingenuity, perhaps it can be made into something new and profitable.

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

As it stands, it should burn. But, with some $20+ Billion Dollar of taxpayer bailout money, perhaps it can be made into something new and profitable.

i edited that for you :P

Sands · 03-30-2009, 05:01 AM

Worth saving, sure, but not by the government. There's no need to print money and bail out a company when, more than likely, there are private entities out there who are willing to invest in or buy out GM.

slapass · 03-30-2009, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miam...ry/974648.html

why should tax payers be forced to pay off 35 billion in debt? These companies deserve their grave

Where are the Republicans and libertarians in this country???

I am with you. in 1980 we saved Chrsyler and now we are doing it again and adding GM. when does it stop?

pornguy · 03-30-2009, 05:04 AM

It will never work now and should never have been in that position in the first place. Let them fail.

Voodoo · 03-30-2009, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

i edited that for you :P

Yeah, it should not be bailed out by tax payer money for sure. But, some private corps could turn it into something spectacular if they wanted to venture in the automobile direction.

It's a business fixer-upper. Great potential, but requires some elbow grease and getting dirty for a while.

I'm curious though, about these bail-outs using tax payer money. Do the "Tax Payers" actually OWN part of those companies that are getting bailed out? I mean, it's our money going into them... I would imagine that the tax payers have some sort of ownership of them.

StuartD · 03-30-2009, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

they failed to run a successful business and i am tired about hearing "jobs" - find another one.

Ok well, how about this....

GM could stand to kill 123,000 jobs upon closing their doors. Estimates down the line between suppliers, manufacturers, supporters and other companies runs the total to around 3,000,000 jobs lost along with it.

Now, should that happen...

Taxes would take a hit now that a rather huge chunk of the population just stopped making an income and started claiming unemployment checks.

Now that people have lost their jobs, the prices of cars have just gone up as foreign car companies just lost a major competition source. You know those really cheap tiny little cars that GM could never compete against? Well, they'll now cost a lot more because... they can!

Now, as we've been learning all the way along with this recession, the more people that go out of work and start leeching off the system, and pay less taxes, etc... sets off a chain reaction because spending will be lower, more companies will go under, more people go on unemployment, and spending will be lower, more companies will go under....

see a pattern here?

So yes, we're tired of hearing about lost jobs. And if it was 5 lost jobs, or even 10,000 lost jobs... it wouldn't be an issue. But the number of lost jobs really could set off a very bad chain reaction in an already less than desirable economic situation.

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

I'm curious though, about these bail-outs using tax payer money. Do the "Tax Payers" actually OWN part of those companies that are getting bailed out? I mean, it's our money going into them... I would imagine that the tax payers have some sort of ownership of them.

yeah just like we own public school, and the roads, and the water dept... and everything else our tax dollar pay for and we use but "own."

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

So yes, we're tired of hearing about lost jobs. And if it was 5 lost jobs, or even 10,000 lost jobs... it wouldn't be an issue. But the number of lost jobs really could set off a very bad chain reaction in an already less than desirable economic situation.

we will never know unless it happens, I think this whole "sky will fall if GM falls" is fantasy, fear can always get the best results from those you want to control.

Voodoo · 03-30-2009, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

yeah just like we own public school, and the roads, and the water dept... and everything else our tax dollar pay for and we use but "own."

Oh, right. You mean, public schools... as in... The ones that keep getting cut-back, Teachers losing their jobs etc..., and the roads that we are constantly paying for, and getting tickets on, and the water dept that we pay for monthly. Hmm.

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Oh, right. You mean, public schools... as in... The ones that keep getting cut-back, Teachers losing their jobs etc..., and the roads that we are constantly paying for, and getting tickets on, and the water dept that we pay for monthly. Hmm.

americans cant even get a free 911 call, we pay to build and then pay to use.

StuartD · 03-30-2009, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

we will never know unless it happens, I think this whole "sky will fall if GM falls" is fantasy, fear can always get the best results from those you want to control.

I think there's an awful lot at stake to just say "we will never know unless it happens." Another great depression is probably worth trying to avoid rather than just let it happen so we can look back and say "well, that answers that question."

Now, don't get me wrong, as I said, I'm torn and these bailouts send a very dangerous message to the greedy CEO's that let this happen in the first place. So I certainly don't support it.

But I'm also not just going to turn a blind eye to the potential consequences. The results could be very harmful in a normal economy. In a volatile economy, it could be disastrous. And no, we don't know if it will be for sure, but as I said, it's a huge risk to take just to satisfy a curiosity.

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

I think there's an awful lot at stake to just say "we will never know unless it happens." Another great depression is probably worth trying to avoid rather than just let it happen so we can look back and say "well, that answers that question."

maybe we should rethink the way things are set up if GM failing could cause another Great Depression?

I mean really, if anything thinis this will never happen again just becasue we throw 30+bil at car makers watched Neverending Story too many times.

I dont think the world would end if GM failed, it already failed, the fear mongering is what keeps people from progress.

StuartD · 03-30-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

maybe we should rethink the way things are set up if GM failing could cause another Great Depression?

I mean really, if anything thinis this will never happen again just becasue we throw 30+bil at car makers watched Neverending Story too many times.

I dont think the world would end if GM failed, it already failed, the fear mongering is what keeps people from progress.

It has failed but the jobs haven't gone away yet, and those people haven't claimed unemployment yet and next year's income taxes haven't dropped yet.

You're thinking about this a little too... linear. The US doesn't enter a great depression the day following GM's closure. Just like it doesn't enter a recession the day after real estate prices start dropping.

Each hole in the boat makes the boat sink that much faster and makes it that much harder to patch.

Yes, I think things really are structured poorly if GM's fall could put the US into a great depression, but again, it's not as simple as that. If the US had a strong thriving economy and everything was prosperous.. I'm sure there wouldn't be anywhere near the same urgency involving GM.

But because the economy is where it is now, this could be the final nail in the coffin and if not the final nail... it certainly would be another rather big nail putting you closer!

Fletch XXX · 03-30-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartD

Yes, I think things really are structured poorly

and you are talking to someone who encourages radical change

"If theres a new way,
Ill be the first in line.
But, it better work this time."

DWB · 03-30-2009, 05:33 AM

The answer is no.

Whats better is, what about a company that is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. You would let that fail too? Of course you would. The USA is exactly that and needs to totally fall on its face, as painful as it's going to be, and rebuild from the bottom up.

sarettah · 03-30-2009, 05:47 AM

I have totally mixed feelings on any of the bailouts.

One thing to consider though, with GM (or Ford if it comes to it), is that they are a key component of our national defense.

03-30-2009, 04:51 AM	#2
StuartD Sofa King Band Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside the box Posts: 29,903	I'm torn. I think that a company that fails... fails. It deserves to fade away if it can't survive. However, I also understand the need to preserve such a massive number of jobs... not just within that one company but with all the companies dependent on it. I think these bailouts send a very bad message to these greedy bastards that screwed up things in the first place. Now they know that they can screw up even bigger in the future with no worries because the government will always be there to bail them out. __________________ This is me on facebook This is me on twitter

03-30-2009, 04:54 AM	#3
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,293	i'm going to have to say no.. the company should burn.. why not find the most productive or individuals with the most potential, pay off their 10k+ debts, teach them how to not run it up again (would require little education, especially since most would be too scared to ever run up debt again I'd imagine). Surely that would be more productive in the end than saving a company that fails as bad as this. That's a rock solid business plan, we'll lose 65bn and get the government to cover it then we break even! All in favor say Aye! __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

03-30-2009, 04:57 AM	#5
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	It depends, can someone else step in and make it profitable? Can the assets be reassigned to new functions & processes in order to turn it into a new business model? As it stands, it should burn. But, with some ingenuity, perhaps it can be made into something new and profitable. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

03-30-2009, 05:04 AM	#9
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	It will never work now and should never have been in that position in the first place. Let them fail. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

03-30-2009, 05:47 AM	#21
sarettah see you later, I'm gone Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,136	I have totally mixed feelings on any of the bailouts. One thing to consider though, with GM (or Ford if it comes to it), is that they are a key component of our national defense. __________________ All cookies cleared!

03-30-2009, 05:01 AM	#7
Sands Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: 418194907 Posts: 3,134	Worth saving, sure, but not by the government. There's no need to print money and bail out a company when, more than likely, there are private entities out there who are willing to invest in or buy out GM.

03-30-2009, 05:33 AM	#20
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	The answer is no. Whats better is, what about a company that is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt. You would let that fail too? Of course you would. The USA is exactly that and needs to totally fall on its face, as painful as it's going to be, and rebuild from the bottom up.