Lester Burnham

LOL, I mentioned in another threat that Gitmo detainees might be crying for Gitmo conditions if they are sent to our prisons. Apparently, the ACLU is worried that the Colorado Supermaxx conditions might amount to torture. AS they say, it is like moving people ?out of the frying pan into the fire.?

http://coloradoindependent.com/19970...d-mock-justice

The ACLU of Colorado applauds President Obama for making the closure of the prison at Guantánamo his administration?s first priority. We welcome these steps towards restoring the rule of law in America. For those considering Colorado?s ADX Florence prison (Supermax) as an alternative facility for housing these detainees, we offer these considerations. Many of the detainees are being held without charges while still awaiting trial. They haven?t been convicted of any crime and for many there is no evidence against them. While a transfer to the Supermax facility will indisputably bring the detainees under the protection of the United States justice system, overall their living conditions will not improve.

This prison is the most secure federal prison in the nation. Most individuals are kept in solitary confinement for at least 23 hours each day. They live in a 7×12 ft room with walls and furniture built almost entirely out of concrete. The single free hour is spent exercising alone in a separate concrete chamber. The federal government reserves these conditions for the worst of the worst, such as convicted terrorists Ted Kaczynski, 1993 World Trade Center bombers Omar Abdel-Rahman and Ramzi Yousef, and Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph. The cases against these men were clear, and they themselves were unapologetic in their guilt.

In contrast, many of the Guantánamo detainees are merely suspected of being guilty. They are held without charge, without the ability to see the evidence against them or to offer contrary evidence in their own defense. Several of them have been released after the last administration finally admitted it had no proof of their guilt. While at Guantánamo they endured psychological and physical torture such as waterboarding and sexual degradation, but at least they had two hours of exercise per day and some contact with others, if only by yelling from cell to cell. Waterboarding and the like won?t happen at Supermax, but for these men awaiting trial, indefinite detention in total sound and sight isolation is simply another form of torture, one which makes a mockery of ?innocent until proven guilty.? To release these individuals from Guantánamo Bay, only to send them to the toughest prison in the country could well be considered a move ?out of the frying pan into the fire.?

Cathryn Hazouri
Executive Director, ACLU of Colorado

fris

23 hours in the dark a day, ouch.

Robert Philip Hanssen (born April 18, 1944) is a former FBI agent who spied for the Russian KGB against the United States for more than 20 years. Despite the fact that he revealed highly sensitive security information to the Soviet Union, federal prosecutors agreed to not seek the death penalty in exchange for his guilty pleas to 15 espionage and conspiracy charges.[1] He is serving a life sentence in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day at the Supermax Federal Penitentiary in Florence, Colorado

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Alky

where does it say in the dark? solitary isn't in the dark...when it's daylight.

DaddyHalbucks

Damn right! The terrorists need their cable TV and microwaveable snacks. It's in the goddamn US Constitution!

The ACLU?

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billyb

There is no such thing as a 23 hour lockup. If you know how easy it is for a member of the Mexican maffia or a white supremist group to still have someone killed on the outside. You would want all of them taken out.

They should all be lined up and shot, they are of no use to society. Now we are going to put these Muslims in our US prisons. What a fucking great way for them to recruit more Americans to join there plan.


I just don't understand why we would want to allow them around anyone.

Lester Burnham

You are wrong. The colorado supermaxx is 23 hour lock down - period - no exceptions. You eat alone. You shower alone. She sleep alone. You get one hour of "playtime" - by yourself.

The colorado supermaxx is no joke. Here is what Eric Rudolph said (olympic bomber):

"It is a closed-off world designed to isolate inmates from social and environmental stimuli, with the ultimate purpose of causing mental illness and chronic physical conditions such as diabetes, heart disease and arthritis," he wrote in one letter to The Gazette of Colorado Springs.

Rudolph wrote that he spends 23 hours a day in his 7-by-12-foot cell, adding that his only exercise is in an enclosed area he described as a "large empty swimming pool" divided into "dog-kennel style cages."

"Using solitary confinement, Supermax is designed to inflict as much misery and pain as is constitutionally permissible," he wrote.
ROFL - nobody is gonna recruit terrorist in Florence, Colorado. That's just stupid...

billyb

One word, pelicanbay, look it up. See how many people are still being killed from there. 23 hour lockup, stop dreaming. As long as they breathe they can have someone murdered.

BusterBunny

that may be what happens but that's not why the design is configured the way it is

Lester Burnham

First, PELICAN BAY is two words LOL. Pelican bay is a poorly ran state prison that can't hold a candle to the Florence facility (federal).

The following folks in Florence aren't doing shit except rotting away....

* Abdul Hakim Murad, of al-Qaeda's Operation Bojinka[1]
* Accardo Simonelli, gangster from the New Mexico mafia. Hitman with more than 30 counts of murder.
* Adolph Reynoso, of the Mexican Mafia
* Ahmed Ajaj, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing[2]
* Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, Al Qaeda conspirator in several plots, including one to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush
* Ahmed Ressam, of the 2000 millennium attack plots[1]
* Alex Aguirre, of the Mexican Mafia
* Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso, 16802-050, former Underboss turned informant for the Lucchese crime family
* Anthony McBayne
* Anthony Jones, multiple murderer
* Antonio Guerrero Rodríguez, Cuban spy, serving life plus 10 years
* Aziz Abdul Mumi
* Barry Byron Mills, of the Aryan Brotherhood
* Bryan Cook serving a 40-year sentence for carjacking and assault, was stabbed while in the recreation yard
* Charles Harrelson, 02582-016, Texan hitman, convicted of murdering federal judge, father of actor Woody Harrelson, died in prison of a heart attack March 15, 2007.[3]
* Clement Rodney Hampton-El, a.k.a. Dr. Rashid, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing
* Dandeny Muñoz Mosquera, chief assassin for Pablo Escobar, responsible for the bombing of Avianca Flight 203
* Danny Weeks, for kidnapping two women in the course of escaping from Louisiana Penitentiary at Angola[4][not in citation given]
* David Brian Stone was stabbed in the back while in the recreation yard. He was serving a 10-year sentence for firearm possession by a felon
* David Lane, 12873-057, white supremacist and racketeer. Died in his sleep 28 May 2007.
* David Roland Hinkson convicted in federal court for plotting to kill a federal judge, prosecutor and IRS agent who were involved in a tax case against him.
* David Vargas
* Douglas Black facing a life sentence for murder in Massachusetts in addition to his federal time a seven-year sentence for assault
* Douglas Saxon Taylor leader of the 88 Skinheads
* Dwight York, 17911-054, founder of the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors serving 135 years for child molestation and racketeering[5]
* El Sayyid Nosair, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.[6]
* Eric Robert Rudolph, 18282-058, terrorist, committed the Centennial Olympic Park bombing and other bombings[1][7]
* Eyad Ismail, 37802-054, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing[6][8]
* Frank Melendez, cocaine dealer from California killed in ADX Florence by Mirssa Araiza-Reyes
* Francisco Javier Arellano Felix, Mexican drug lord
* Garrett Wade Linderman Linderman had been in another prison for robbery until his cellmate there was found stabbed to death. Linderman wasn't tried for the murder, but they transferred him to the A.D.X.
* Gerald Rubalcaba, of the Nuestra Familia
* Gregory Scarpa Jr former Colombo Family member
* H. Rap Brown 99974-555, former civil rights activist convicted of murdering a Georgia sheriff's deputy (NOTE: Brown is a Georgia state inmate held here because Georgia does not have a suitable facility.)
* Hanif Shabazz Bey (Beaumont Gereau) # 295933
* Howard "Pappy" Mason 24651-053, drug trafficker who ordered the murder of police officer Eddie Byrne.
* Ibrahim Elgabrowny, of the New York City landmark bomb plot
* Iyman Faris, also of the NYC landmark plot, sentenced to 20 years in 2003
* James Curtis Martin was stabbed and strangled last April. He was serving a 95-year sentence for two counts of murder.
* James Ujaama, who tried to develop an al-Qaeda camp in Oregon
* Jeff Fort, he is currently imprisoned on drug trafficking charges. He is also the only American citizen ever convicted of terrorism for hire.[9]
* Joey Estrella, bank robber, killed in ADX Florence by the Sablan cousin's
* Joseph Wroblewski killed by Shane Patrick Bailey
* John Walker Lindh, dubbed "The American Taliban"[10]
* Jose Padilla, 20796-424, convicted of aiding terrorists

Lester Burnham

The rest of the folks in Florence:

* Joseph Bryant McGee, bank robber
* Joseph Anthony Leissler, robber and murderer
* Juan Matta-Ballesteros, 37671-133, drug trafficker in the Enrique Camarena case, serving 480 years
* Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, participant in the 1998 United States embassy bombings
* Kojo Bomani Sababu, aka Grailing Brown convicted of bank robbery, part of the Black Liberation Army
* Kenneth "Supreme" McGriff 26301-053, an American drug trafficker and organized crime figure.
* Larry Hoover, 86063-024, leader of the Gangster Disciples gang in Chicago
* Lawrence Klaker He killed himself, Aryan Brotherhood member
* Luis Felipe, leader of the Latin Kings gang[11]
* Mahmud Abouhalima, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing[12]
* Manuel Torrez, who in 2005 at age 64 became the first inmate to be murdered in a Supermax prison[13][14]
* Mark Jordan was convicted of bank robbery, and in 1999 he stabbed an inmate to death at the adjacent U.S. Penitentiary in Florence
* Matthew F. Hale, 15177-424, white supremacist for soliciting the murder of federal judge Joan Lefkow
* Maynard Campell, white separatist with ties to militia groups;serving a ten-year sentence stemming from a land dispute with federal officials in Orego, was stabbed to death
* Michael Swango, physician and serial murderer
* Mirssa Araiza-Reyes, drug smuggler and illegal alien; killed inmate Frank Melendez
* Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali, of the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings
* Mohammed A. Salameh, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing[12]
* Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad, would-be financier of al-Qaeda and Hamas, serving 75 years
* Mohammed Odeh is one of the four former al-Qaeda members sentenced to life imprisonment in 2001 for their parts in the 1998 United States embassy bombings.
* Mustafa Zulu
* Mutulu Shakur, 83205-012, serving 60 years for a bank robbery in which a policeman and two guards were killed. Stepfather of late rapper Tupac Shakur, brother of Assata Shakur[15]
* Nicodemo Scarfo, was serving life imprisonment at Supermax,[9] primarily on the testimony of a number of informants, including his nephew. He managed to overturn his life sentence and get transferred to an FCI in Atlanta, Georgia.
* Nidal Ayyad, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing[12]
* Omar Abdel-Rahman, 34892-054, al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya mentor, nicknamed "The Blind Sheik", serving life for his part in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing
* Omar Mohammed Rezaq, airliner hijacker
* Omar Portee, aka O.G. Mack. Co-founder of the United Blood Nation
* Paul Chartier
* Peter Rollack Sex, Money, Murder founder is currently serving 105 years without parole for 6 murders
* Oscar Rivera, leader of the Armed Forces of National Liberation, a Puerto Rican militant group, for bombing 28 targets in the Chicago area. Received an additional 15-year sentence for an escape attempt (from another prison).
* Ramzi Yousef, 03911-000, of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and Operation Bojinka, senior al-Qaeda member[13][16][11]
* Raymond Luc Levasseur, American domestic bomber
* Raymond Oechsle, was incarcerated with Casso from 2001 to 2002 at ADX
* Ramiro "Ramsey" R. Muñiz 40288-115 convicted of drug charges, political figure
* Richard Reid, 24079-038, al-Qaeda's would-be "Shoe Bomber"[17]
* Richard Lee McNair, 13829-045, escape artist, serving 3 life sentences for murder.[18][19][20]
* Richard Scutari, conspirator in a 1984 robbery of a Brink's armored truck; serving 60 years
* Robert Haney, bank robber, pretended to escape from ADX with Tony Francis
* Robert Hanssen, 48551-083, former senior FBI agent serving life for espionage[16]
* Robert Jones
* Rodney Hambrick, serving a 68-year sentence on bomb charges
* Ronald Griesacker, fraudster, passed $2 million in worthless checks. Released in 2002.
* Rudy Cabrera Sablan serving a 92-month sentence for being a felon in possession of a firearm. Also serving Life without parole in the killing of Joey Estrella.
* Ruben "Nite Owl" Castro, of the Mexican Mafia
* Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, former Underboss turned government witness of the Gambino crime family[16]
* Terry Nichols, 08157-031, Oklahoma City Bombing conspirator[13]
* Shane Patrick Bailey bank robber from Minnesota, is charged with ending cellmate Joseph Wroblewski's life on May, 23, 1999
* Steven Riddle inmate who did most of the stabbing of Campbell, got ten years for manslaughter
* Theodore Kaczynski, 04475-046, the "Unabomber"[11]
* Thomas Silverstein, bank robber and murderer; killed guard Merle Clutts at United States Penitentiary, Marion[16]
* Timothy McVeigh, executed 2001 for Oklahoma City bombing[16][11]
* Tom Manning, political serial bomber, has been transferred to USP Hazelton
* Tony Francis pretended with Robert Haney to escape from ADX[citation needed]
* Tyler Davis Bingham, conspired to order multiple killings and assaults from Florence ADX
* Tyrone Love, transferred to Florence after the "crack riots" at Lompoc, California in 1996
* Wadih el-Hage, 42393-054, of the 1998 United States embassy bombings in Africa[21]
* Wali Khan Amin Shah Operation Bojinka
* Wayne Perry, henchman for The Alberto "Alpo" Martinez Drug Gang
* William Sablan serving a 252-month sentence for hostage taking, now serving life without parole, killing of Joey Estrella
* Yu Kikumura, of the Japanese Red Army, released April 18, 2007, served 221 months, deported[21]
* Zacarias Moussaoui, 51427-054, of the September 11, 2001 attacks[1]
* Zayd Hassan Abd Al-Latif Masud Al Safarini, Pan Am Flight 73 Hijacker

billyb

What is the cost for housing all of these criminals?. I can go to Ace hardware and get some ropes that will be a lot cheaper then housing them. You also forget that they can still issue orders that can get people on the outside killed.

You refuse to believe this, maybe if it is so safe you would want to stay there for a night or two?. I would not want to, kill them all and be done with them.

After Shock Media

There is a big ass difference between keeping someone in solitary confinement 23 hours a day and cable TV with snacks.

I really do not expect you to get this as most everything that requires logical thought and does not fit into your pro Bush ideas of how the world should work is beyond you.

PS - Please show us where everyone is Gitmo has been convicted of being a terrorist.

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mynameisjim

Obama had no choice but to order it closed at some point.

What's the alternative, leave it open until the last detainee dies?

It's lose-lose but there was no choice, it had to be phased out.

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jmcb420

Bush left it open because for him to close it would have made him look like a dumbass after it got out that alot of the detainees were just innocent people....Obama's closing it because Bush didn't and alot of those detainees are just innocent people.

And the Florence, Colorado prision is for the worst of the worst and they are treated as such. There is no comparison between the two except to say Florence, Colorado is filled with people who have been found guilty of crimes. Gitmo is filled with people who GW really hopes are guilty.

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