CCBILL Sponsor's Rebills... - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Shoplifter · 01-04-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Of course there has to be a way to do that. When I send a lot of traffic and sales I get plenty of sponsors who want to bump up my percentages "on the fly" And others, like AFF as I mentioned before, have their backend set up automatically to raise and lower your percentages according to traffic.

Oh sure and that makes sense. I meant that sponsors should not be able to do things like change from their pre-defined terms on the fly to benefit themselves. Or reduce percentages to zero on the fly, or delete affiliates from the program without their knowledge etc.

Protecting the affiliate is one of the most important services an IPSP should offer. Their third party involvement should be a guarantee of transparency and a major selling point to affiliates. Considering how many NATS type programs are not paying out these days I think CCBill et al should be capitalizing on the inherent security their systems provide.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 09:04 PM

What NATS sponsors are you aware of that aren't paying out? I have a few hundred sponsors that I promote and I get all my checks.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevTKS69

You have got to be kidding me? I'm new to the adult website world, but I've been in corporate business environments for quite some time. This is quite simply unacceptable. If there is not 'transparency' in the accounting, then money will wind up in places it shouldn't be.

No wonder you guys are always talking about 'shaving' and dirty dealings by sponsors.

How in the hell can you run a business when the sponsor can just say 'sorry, you didn't make any money this month' and CCBill says 'sorry, you'll just have to take their word for it.'

Please tell me I've interpreted this incorrectly.

I did ask the wrong question earlier. There is no way for me as a program owner, to continue to bill a customer without continuing to payout the affiliate.

The question they did answer is that if I went in and cancelled a membership altogether, the affiliate would not get paid on it, nor would I get paid on it, and the affiliate would not know whether the customer cancelled it of if I cancelled it. Of course, why on earth would I cancel it????? Then I wouldn't get paid either.

After Shock Media · 01-04-2009, 09:14 PM

There has been and still seems to be some confusion in the thread.

Just know this.

You can adjust an affiliates payout. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is.
You can give unlimited rebills or stop rebills after X number. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is.
You can cancel a member. This will cancel it for both the affiliate and the site owner.
You can not just cancel an affiliates payout on a member while keeping it all for yourself, unless you adjust their transparent affiliate payout.

As for why someone may want to cancel a membership, especially when nobody will get a payout. This happens when someone is having problems, very pissed, whatever and they demand you cancel it or they will do something silly like charge it back. So the site owner will cancel such a charge to prevent a charge back.

AZNNC · 01-04-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

What NATS sponsors are you aware of that aren't paying out? I have a few hundred sponsors that I promote and I get all my checks.

I can name you a handfull.
There are even more, who I'm literally 1-2 sales below minimum payment, their solo girls are way past ever updating and the sites dont convert for shit. And you ask the nats program owner politely to send your payment before minimum payout, and even close the account if they need too and they refuse.

- Traffic Gigalos
- Teen Dolls

A Few off the top of my head.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZNNC

I can name you a handfull.
There are even more, who I'm literally 1-2 sales below minimum payment, their solo girls are way past ever updating and the sites dont convert for shit. And you ask the nats program owner politely to send your payment before minimum payout, and even close the account if they need too and they refuse.

- Traffic Gigalos
- Teen Dolls

A Few off the top of my head.

So you're not really saying that they "Don't payout" You're saying that you haven't reached a sales minimum. Now I understand.

Iron Fist · 01-04-2009, 11:44 PM

There's two types, (UNLIMITED) and (ZERO)... unlimited means unlimited rebills, zero means no rebills at all.

AZNNC · 01-05-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So you're not really saying that they "Don't payout" You're saying that you haven't reached a sales minimum. Now I understand.

I keep a pretty tight bookkeep of all my income in excell. (read: Stats Whore). I delete sponsors who I have given up on, who I know are a lost cause for getting paid from. TrafficTemple, RagingBucks too name a few I can think of from the top of my head. I know there have been a ton more, I just can't read them off a list for you.

But I guess I went off on a different note, that being that NATs sponsors are greedy, and I think should have no minimum payments, specially on epass option accounts. It's money made, pay it out.

EscortBiz · 01-05-2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZNNC

I keep a pretty tight bookkeep of all my income in excell. (read: Stats Whore). I delete sponsors who I have given up on, who I know are a lost cause for getting paid from. TrafficTemple, RagingBucks too name a few I can think of from the top of my head. I know there have been a ton more, I just can't read them off a list for you.

But I guess I went off on a different note, that being that NATs sponsors are greedy, and I think should have no minimum payments, specially on epass option accounts. It's money made, pay it out.

once you understand "reverse shaving" youll understand why the min payout is a must for them.

reverse shaving is very common, thats where you signup to a sponsor you send 50-100 hits and bamn your like holy shit I got a signup, then you send another 3000 hits but nothing, guess what its possible they put that sale there and they have little to lose because even if they do 40 bucks PPS usually their min payout is 100 bucks.

AZNNC · 01-05-2009, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

once you understand "reverse shaving" youll understand why the min payout is a must for them.

reverse shaving is very common, thats where you signup to a sponsor you send 50-100 hits and bamn your like holy shit I got a signup, then you send another 3000 hits but nothing, guess what its possible they put that sale there and they have little to lose because even if they do 40 bucks PPS usually their min payout is 100 bucks.

Yes, I know all about it. It's dirty, that's why I don't promote Nats nearly as much as I do CCBill. I have $1400 sitting in sponsors like that. (heyy... thats a new laptop for my business). Many have sat like that for months. I guess I'm going to have to signup for memberships on some of those personally. $30 spent to get $100 back. Knowing my luck, that's when they will move to the "dont pay no matter what" bracket.

Kron · 01-05-2009, 02:01 AM

rebill depend of what is inside in members area, maybe some sites dont have enough to keep surfer interested more than one month

AmeliaG · 01-05-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

And sadly, I just checked with CCBill Client Support and they told me there is no way for an affiliate to find out if the customer cancelled or if the sponsor pulled the rebill.

I hesitated even posting this cuz I didn't want to give anyone any ideas but it is the truth and the truth is what we're all after. Any sponsor who would pull that bullshit already knows about it anyway, I'm sure.

Steve Hardeman ‎(15:49):
Hi
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:49):
hello
what can i assist you with today?
Steve Hardeman ‎(15:50):
Question, is there a way for me, as an affiliate, to check to see whether a cancelled subscription was cancelled by the subscriber or by the sponsor?
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:50):
No there is no way you can check that.

CCBill was answering your question on a canceled subscription, not a changed payout. There is no way for an affiliate to tell if a sponsor canceled a member for password-trading or whatever or the member just canceled.

I'm pretty sure I have received emails from CCBill in the past when sponsors changed payouts in at least some ways i.e. like percentage.

Speaking only for my own experience, most of the revshare sponsors I promote have been heaven-sent during this economic downturn because the rebills seem to last better than new sign-ups are made for many.

Lamis · 01-05-2009, 03:59 AM

When a surfer joins a CCBILL paysite, does the Sponsor receive the personal info of the surfer, like for example the email address???

If the answer is YES, then we have a problem like the sponsor bypassing the webmaster and offering the surfer their own ref codes via email to re-join with a "special price".

Take a look at VideosZ... They don't use CCBILL, but when a surfer cancels, they automatically offer them to stay for half the price. The problem is that the WEBMASTER stops getting the rebill of that surfer, but the Vulturs of VideosZ get FULL CREDIT for that surfer that was sent by a hard working webmaster. So in the end they retain the surfer and still get paid the same of before. That is 15 bucks.... Because they don't need to pay the webmaster anymore.

It's incredible how NASTY and DIRTY the business is becoming day after day.. There are no codes and no ethics at all.

After Shock Media · 01-05-2009, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

When a surfer joins a CCBILL paysite, does the Sponsor receive the personal info of the surfer, like for example the email address???

If the answer is YES, then we have a problem like the sponsor bypassing the webmaster and offering the surfer their own ref codes via email to re-join with a "special price".

Take a look at VideosZ... They don't use CCBILL, but when a surfer cancels, they automatically offer them to stay for half the price. The problem is that the WEBMASTER stops getting the rebill of that surfer, but the Vulturs of VideosZ get FULL CREDIT for that surfer that was sent by a hard working webmaster. So in the end they retain the surfer and still get paid the same of before. That is 15 bucks.... Because they don't need to pay the webmaster anymore.

It's incredible how NASTY and DIRTY the business is becoming day after day.. There are no codes and no ethics at all.

Why must everyone really presume the worst of most sponsors. Especially many of the smaller ones who do use ccbill as primary.

I mean what would you like, the site owner not getting the members email address nor other information? I mean we never need to communicate with members right? They never email in asking for us to look up some password, handle some billing issue, some tech issue, or whatever that helps keep them around so they do not say fuck it and charge back or cancel.

The more I read this sort of stuff the more I wonder why I go through my type in traffic to see if I can find any members that have rejoined that were once under an affiliate so I can credit them for the new join and shit. I mean hell most do not even know I do that but fuck it if everyone assumes we naturally will screw over the affiliate whenever we can however we can why should I bother.

Elli · 01-07-2009, 07:16 PM

Interesting to see how ratios are changing on the rebills. I hadn't thought of people's credit lines getting shortened. that explains a lot.

Robbie · 01-07-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

Interesting to see how ratios are changing on the rebills. I hadn't thought of people's credit lines getting shortened. that explains a lot.

I don't think that has a lot to do with it.

My theory is that the majority of people use their debit cards and don't even own a "real" credit card that isn't AMEX

My guess would be people are just spending their money a little more wisely these days and cutting back a little bit until this intial wave of fear over the economy is over. I know I do.

KillerK · 01-07-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't think that has a lot to do with it.

My theory is that the majority of people use their debit cards and don't even own a "real" credit card that isn't AMEX

My guess would be people are just spending their money a little more wisely these days and cutting back a little bit until this intial wave of fear over the economy is over. I know I do.

I agree, people just aren't "wasting" money. Plus the tubes have to make a huge dent because the casual guy who just wants to wack it can now without paying. Sure he could b4 on tgps/mgps but not to a full length scene and with it so easy to surf (no popups, no skim etc)

Elli · 01-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't think that has a lot to do with it.

My theory is that the majority of people use their debit cards and don't even own a "real" credit card that isn't AMEX

My guess would be people are just spending their money a little more wisely these days and cutting back a little bit until this intial wave of fear over the economy is over. I know I do.

True, I hadn't thought of the "check" cards in the states with the credit card logos.

Yeah, everybody's watching their cc and bank statements a lot more closely these days, and now we're into the crunch between Christmas and tax refund time. le sigh.

rayadp05 · 01-07-2009, 08:44 PM

I use CCBill for my paysite affiliate program and the initial signups AND the rebills are doing great. Not sure why so many others are having trouble with this.

Brad Mitchell · 01-07-2009, 08:55 PM

Cheap trials invite a more unqualified audience of buyers. In some ways, they attract buyers that are too savvy who have trained themselves to cancel immediately upon joining.

You converted 1:10 on cheap trials to full monthly but 1:3 on full monthly to the second month. My advice would be to try a tour that has a more expensive 15 day membership in the teens, perhaps, or a full monthly membership that is in the mid-high twenties. I would expect your conversions on gross traffic to be "less" but guarantee that you actual net earnings increase.

Cheers,

Brad

rowan · 01-07-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

When a surfer joins a CCBILL paysite, does the Sponsor receive the personal info of the surfer, like for example the email address???

If the answer is YES, then we have a problem like the sponsor bypassing the webmaster and offering the surfer their own ref codes via email to re-join with a "special price".

Take a look at VideosZ... They don't use CCBILL, but when a surfer cancels, they automatically offer them to stay for half the price. The problem is that the WEBMASTER stops getting the rebill of that surfer, but the Vulturs of VideosZ get FULL CREDIT for that surfer that was sent by a hard working webmaster. So in the end they retain the surfer and still get paid the same of before. That is 15 bucks.... Because they don't need to pay the webmaster anymore.

It's incredible how NASTY and DIRTY the business is becoming day after day.. There are no codes and no ethics at all.

This one was a double whammy: as well as encouraging the surfer to cancel and rejoin, the link to the new join page clears any existing affiliate cookie. Zero chance of the affiliate making any more $ from a member who takes up that offer.

(When this was pointed out to LSG the "our intern did it" excuse came up, and it was removed...)

After Shock Media · 01-07-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

My theory is that the majority of people use their debit cards and don't even own a "real" credit card that isn't AMEX

Using the debit cards is pretty spot on but the theory on most only having an AMEX instead of a Visa or Mastercard would be very wrong. Most of the bad credit score people, younger people and such only have access to such and AMEX will not even touch them. Where Visa and Mastercard will stumble over each other to give them a 250.00 limit card with 29.995 APR.

Robbie · 01-07-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Using the debit cards is pretty spot on but the theory on most only having an AMEX instead of a Visa or Mastercard would be very wrong. Most of the bad credit score people, younger people and such only have access to such and AMEX will not even touch them. Where Visa and Mastercard will stumble over each other to give them a 250.00 limit card with 29.995 APR.

Are you saying that everybody doesn't have a black Amex like me and you?

JimmiDean · 01-08-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

a) billing companies dont matter when it comes to rebills (it does matter for initial signups)

b) tgp traffic and se traffic etc effect the type of joins and rebills etc

c) surfer know their shit in these days, you push junk sites they cancel in 2 seconds, you will know how junky it was when in a month you see chargebacks

d) 50% rebills is real good, and not common in these days, but if you push good programs with real updates and the traffic is quality on a 29.95 revshare join long term youll see on avg of 80 bucks profit thats as of nov 08

Bang on !!!

darksoul · 01-08-2009, 04:59 AM

I could tell you you're promoting the wrong sponsors
but some of you 'know it all' to even flirt with the idea that something is wrong on your side.

Iron Fist · 01-08-2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksoul

I could tell you you're promoting the wrong sponsors
but some of you 'know it all' to even flirt with the idea that something is wrong on your side.

Nah.... couldn't be that!

Speedy26 · 01-08-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

There has been and still seems to be some confusion in the thread.

Just know this.

You can adjust an affiliates payout. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is.
You can give unlimited rebills or stop rebills after X number. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is.

the affiliate gets an e-mail from CCBill any time the info is changed.

01-04-2009, 09:04 PM	#52
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	What NATS sponsors are you aware of that aren't paying out? I have a few hundred sponsors that I promote and I get all my checks. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

01-04-2009, 09:14 PM	#54
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	There has been and still seems to be some confusion in the thread. Just know this. You can adjust an affiliates payout. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is. You can give unlimited rebills or stop rebills after X number. This is transparent though and the affiliate can check and see what it is. You can cancel a member. This will cancel it for both the affiliate and the site owner. You can not just cancel an affiliates payout on a member while keeping it all for yourself, unless you adjust their transparent affiliate payout. As for why someone may want to cancel a membership, especially when nobody will get a payout. This happens when someone is having problems, very pissed, whatever and they demand you cancel it or they will do something silly like charge it back. So the site owner will cancel such a charge to prevent a charge back. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

01-04-2009, 11:44 PM	#57
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	There's two types, (UNLIMITED) and (ZERO)... unlimited means unlimited rebills, zero means no rebills at all. __________________ i like waffles

01-05-2009, 02:01 AM	#61
Kron Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,668	rebill depend of what is inside in members area, maybe some sites dont have enough to keep surfer interested more than one month __________________ I dont exchange money!

01-07-2009, 07:16 PM	#65
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	Interesting to see how ratios are changing on the rebills. I hadn't thought of people's credit lines getting shortened. that explains a lot. __________________ email: [email protected]

01-05-2009, 03:59 AM	#63
Lamis So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 961	When a surfer joins a CCBILL paysite, does the Sponsor receive the personal info of the surfer, like for example the email address??? If the answer is YES, then we have a problem like the sponsor bypassing the webmaster and offering the surfer their own ref codes via email to re-join with a "special price". Take a look at VideosZ... They don't use CCBILL, but when a surfer cancels, they automatically offer them to stay for half the price. The problem is that the WEBMASTER stops getting the rebill of that surfer, but the Vulturs of VideosZ get FULL CREDIT for that surfer that was sent by a hard working webmaster. So in the end they retain the surfer and still get paid the same of before. That is 15 bucks.... Because they don't need to pay the webmaster anymore. It's incredible how NASTY and DIRTY the business is becoming day after day.. There are no codes and no ethics at all.

01-07-2009, 08:44 PM	#69
rayadp05 TRUEAMATEURMODELS.COM Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: TrueAmateurModels.com Posts: 4,187	I use CCBill for my paysite affiliate program and the initial signups AND the rebills are doing great. Not sure why so many others are having trouble with this. __________________ TrueAmateurModels.com Twitter TrueAmateurModels.com Affiliate Program

01-07-2009, 08:55 PM	#70
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,813	Cheap trials invite a more unqualified audience of buyers. In some ways, they attract buyers that are too savvy who have trained themselves to cancel immediately upon joining. You converted 1:10 on cheap trials to full monthly but 1:3 on full monthly to the second month. My advice would be to try a tour that has a more expensive 15 day membership in the teens, perhaps, or a full monthly membership that is in the mid-high twenties. I would expect your conversions on gross traffic to be "less" but guarantee that you actual net earnings increase. Cheers, Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

01-08-2009, 04:59 AM	#75
darksoul Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: /root/ Posts: 4,997	I could tell you you're promoting the wrong sponsors but some of you 'know it all' to even flirt with the idea that something is wrong on your side. __________________ 1337 5y54\|)m1n: 157717888 BM-2cUBw4B2fgiYAfjkE7JvWaJMiUXD96n9tN Cambooth