Originally Posted by JuiceMonkey (Post 15252951)

Why don't they triple it? Looks like they won't have to pay out anyways... :pimp

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 15252959)

Where did you learn your business skills?

It's not just about how much you're selling, it's what the profits are after the sales that's important.

OK Penthouse funded the acquisition by taking out a loan, it happens in the business world. The idea is to take the company, then the profits from the company will repay the initial loan, usually increased profits. This did not happen so all the sales were not enough, or cost too much or the guys at the top skimmed off the profits. What ever is the reason it did not work.

So a top site selling a less than good product is good for you because this is porn. About as fucked up a theory as I've heard. Unless you can totally lock the customer into buying you will lose him with that approach.

Look around you and see what happens in the real world. Sponsors spending more and more on traffic to get less and less on sales. Because the buyer is a repeat buyer and he's not taking it any more.

And if you seriously think a free Tube site should be an alternative to a paysite you're screwed. If we can't give the customer more for his $30 than what a Tube site gives him we are in the wrong. And if the customer only needs something that costs 2 cents to satisfy him, why are you charging him $30 in the first place?

Originally Posted by TarPy (Post 15252887)

you clearly can't read... maybe you can do math...


they are over 300 million short of their SHORT TERM LIABILITIES

that's 90 days or less

Originally Posted by JTWilson (Post 15252978)

The profits after the sales for AFF look to be in the $20MM+ range, so I don't see what you're getting at. Sure, their margins aren't the best. Yours are probably much better. But let's think which is better. Making $2M with 90% margins, or making $20MM with 10% margins?

Let's also not forget what we are talking about here. Sex dating sites are all misleading. There is bullshit going on with all of them. 10:1 male to female ratio with tons of bullshit pics and deceptive things. Of course retention isn't going to be the best. But here is where the trade-off lies. You can either become 100% legit and get WAY fewer initial joins with higher retention, or you can be like all the sex dating sites and do TONS of initial joins with lower retention. I'm pretty sure I'd take the latter, because I think the amount of initial joins is greater than the rebills would be with lower sales volume.

And yes, I'm totally OK with this because I think I'm making more money like this. I don't care if it's because of rebills, cross sales, high volume/low rebill, or whatever. Dollars and cents. That's all it is.

And why do you always bring up tubes? What do tubes have to do with this?

Originally Posted by TarPy (Post 15252678)

WHOA WHOA WHOA.... did anyone actually read that article?

The unstructured debt is all a result of how Penthouse funded the various acquisition. It really doesn't say that AFF is LOSING MONEY... it says they have a cashflow issue.


Basically, Penthouse was broke, took a huuuuuuuge loan to buy various, and fucked over their investers in the process. AFF and webcams still are throwing off cash, but not enough cash to fix how poorly Penthouse is doing, and all the debt penthouse brought on to buy various.

It's like penthouse bought a home, and now they can't pay the mortguage. Sure, they still feed themselves and have money left over, but not enough to pay off the loans they took out to move in..

Looks like by selling out, lars and andrew have condemned their employees and companies to be crushed under the mighty penthouse falling on them.

Typical poor merger... what's penthouse gain synergy wise from aff? what's aff's synergy with penthouse? poor pairing, mis-matched managment, and a desperation play to even try to buy various which was too big for their britches. And if the penthouse name would have brought substantial value to AFF, then the combination would create surplus value above it's selling price. However, no surplus value was created, and there was still all kinds of debt... bla bla bla


but for real... this bankruptcy has NOTHING to do with their pre-paid placements on Tube site, or AFF's business or business practices at all. It is basically penthouse's execs fucking up on a truly royal scale.

it also sounds like penthouse violated some loan terms which caused this long-term debt to move short term.

Originally Posted by Johny Traffic (Post 15253017)

I'd just like to point out this small phrase.

For the americans amoungst you who are selling to europe and not registered for vat and paying it over on your european sales. You are going to have an interesting few years.

This is going to be huge over the next couple of years with yanks back paying vat they didn't pay over.

Oh and before you declare how EU countries can't enforce it, they can, they do, they are and they are going to target people selling into the EU without paying over the VAT, this is going to be the big target for EU tax collection agencies over the next few years.

:upsidedow

Originally Posted by marketsmart (Post 15251055)

it will be the ultimate fuck you to people that did business with a company that profits from theft... :2 cents:

Originally Posted by TheDA (Post 15253190)

Exactly.

here it is again from the Various perspective :)

"Various neglected to collect taxes in the EU. The company says:

After our acquisition of Various, we became aware that Various and its subsidiaries had not collected VAT from subscribers in the European Union nor had Various remitted VAT to the tax jurisdictions requiring it. We have since registered with the tax authorities of the applicable jurisdictions and have begun collecting VAT from our subscribers in the European Union and remitting it as required. We have initiated discussions with most tax authorities in the European Union jurisdictions to attempt to resolve liabilities related to Various' past failure to collect and remit VAT, and have now resolved such prior liabilities in several jurisdictions on favorable terms, but there can be no assurance that we will resolve or reach a favorable resolution in every jurisdiction. If we are unable to reach a favorable resolution with a jurisdiction, the terms of such resolution could adversely affect our financial condition or results of operations."

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15253393)

thank you, i was going to quote that too cause no one mentioned that so far. and it's a serious issue that i would say 99% of all others here do not care about either.

but if anyone wants to do some math: VAT is about 20% in most european countries

lets say 30% of their subscribers are from europe - thats about 50 million $ per year, 20% are 10 million $ they should have paid. now go back 5 years and you have 50 million $ in tax debts

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15250906)

Here is a cool quote: "We have never generated significant revenue from internet advertising and may not be able to in the future."

Hello illegitimate tube sites and all torrent sites. Those pre-paid spots are coming to an end soon. Good luck on finding advertising to replace them.

Originally Posted by TarPy (Post 15252678)

WHOA WHOA WHOA.... did anyone actually read that article?

The unstructured debt is all a result of how Penthouse funded the various acquisition. It really doesn't say that AFF is LOSING MONEY... it says they have a cashflow issue.


Basically, Penthouse was broke, took a huuuuuuuge loan to buy various, and fucked over their investers in the process. AFF and webcams still are throwing off cash, but not enough cash to fix how poorly Penthouse is doing, and all the debt penthouse brought on to buy various.

It's like penthouse bought a home, and now they can't pay the mortguage. Sure, they still feed themselves and have money left over, but not enough to pay off the loans they took out to move in..

Looks like by selling out, lars and andrew have condemned their employees and companies to be crushed under the mighty penthouse falling on them.

Typical poor merger... what's penthouse gain synergy wise from aff? what's aff's synergy with penthouse? poor pairing, mis-matched managment, and a desperation play to even try to buy various which was too big for their britches. And if the penthouse name would have brought substantial value to AFF, then the combination would create surplus value above it's selling price. However, no surplus value was created, and there was still all kinds of debt... bla bla bla


but for real... this bankruptcy has NOTHING to do with their pre-paid placements on Tube site, or AFF's business or business practices at all. It is basically penthouse's execs fucking up on a truly royal scale.

it also sounds like penthouse violated some loan terms which caused this long-term debt to move short term.

Originally Posted by Gnus (Post 15253317)

I thought this statement was funny coming from a guy that promotes SexSearch in his sig. Sexsearch supported zango.



Gary

Originally Posted by DamageX (Post 15251064)

Throw a party.

Originally Posted by DamageX (Post 15251064)

Throw a party.

Originally Posted by SGx (Post 15253443)

all this vat thing is something i can't get

when a european company is selling to an american company, there s no vat, and vice verca

when a european customer buys from amazon us, then he has to pay VAT to get what he bought in his country post office (because of the customs)

Originally Posted by SGx (Post 15253443)

but if the same customer buys a virtual service, then it would be to the selling company to pay that VAT ? why ? it should be the customer which should pay the vat, like when he is buying physical stuff...no ?

Originally Posted by SGx (Post 15253443)

also, i m not sure it would go 5 years back, because vat stuff has been moving a lot lately, but it was not working that same way even 3 years ago

Originally Posted by TheDA (Post 15253718)

The reason I think MaDalton mentioned 5 years is because I think it was 2003 that George W. signed the US up to this agreement. :)

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 15252959)

If we can't give the customer more for his $30 than what a Tube site gives him we are in the wrong. And if the customer only needs something that costs 2 cents to satisfy him, why are you charging him $30 in the first place?

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 15253743)

Don't you just love that GWB? :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by SGx (Post 15253443)

all this vat thing is something i can't get

when a european company is selling to an american company, there s no vat, and vice verca

when a european customer buys from amazon us, then he has to pay VAT to get what he bought in his country post office (because of the customs)
but if the same customer buys a virtual service, then it would be to the selling company to pay that VAT ? why ? it should be the customer which should pay the vat, like when he is buying physical stuff...no ?

also, i m not sure it would go 5 years back, because vat stuff has been moving a lot lately, but it was not working that same way even 3 years ago

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 15253393)

thank you, i was going to quote that too cause no one mentioned that so far. and it's a serious issue that i would say 99% of all others here do not care about either.

but if anyone wants to do some math: VAT is about 20% in most european countries

lets say 30% of their subscribers are from europe - thats about 50 million $ per year, 20% are 10 million $ they should have paid. now go back 5 years and you have 50 million $ in tax debts

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 15253754)

This is a great thread and on the bigger picture, Paul nailed it :thumbsup

Originally Posted by TarPy (Post 15252786)

incorrect. The 400 million was already PAID to lars and andrew, .

Originally Posted by Happypeekers (Post 15254328)

sorry, you are wrong

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 15251008)

You could very well be right. But I don't remember there being a whole lot of advertising in their members area. I haven't been in there in a few years though.

One way or another though, I would have to assume that the huge amounts of money that they threw out to build up traffic numbers is going to have to stop.

I personally wish AFF good things. Worked with them a long, long time and made good money together. But if they have to stop the pre-paid spots to torrents and illegit tubes I won't shed a tear. And it will help AFF to become solvent again while at the same time helping to send torrents and illegit tubes down the....tubes.

Originally Posted by MrBro (Post 15255350)

what makes people think that sexsearch and dating gold and tons of other knock offs that will spring out of no where won't snatch up those spots. i bet the fling people are salivating. nothing will change on tubes. they aren't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 15251123)

good news, every shady sponsor using zango and so on should go down.