Hello,

First off - big apologies for the massive and somewhat belated bum, I only discovered this thread recently and felt my reply relevant. Feel free to flame away should you desire.

Most of you will have no idea who I am, a few of you may have spoken to me through Verified Charge - but I am possibly the only person who can actually answer a lot of the issues raised in this thread.

I'd like to apologise for dragging up old dirt - but after doing some midnight searching a few days ago I ended up stumbling across this thread and have been considering how to reply. In good conscience I cannot ignore it so wanted to give some answers that may not have been forthcoming elsewhere.

My name is Guy and I worked on Verified Charge with Chio for the duration of the project which originally started in late 2005/early 2006. I am based in the UK and have worked with Chio since 1999 on various projects - from his AVS (GetVerified), through a number of sites and most recently with Verified Charge. During this time I have got to know him well and would consider him a very close friend.

The Chio the pirate figure actually originally got invented around a picture of me being molested by a Spaniard in a pirate outfit from 2000... where somehow I became Lord Chio then CHio the Pirate originated thanks to the wonders of photoshopping (which is a past time Chio has spent a little too long).

It is with a heavy heart that I'm writing this post - on the basis I could possibly lose a friend over it for a few dozen people I don't even know, who are earning far more money than me and most likely just enjoy a good bit of internet flaming. That said - I feel anyone who lost money at least deserves to know some details of what happened.

Firstly - addresses and telephone numbers. The domain registration details are a fake name, registered at my old postcode in Bristol (it's not a pub... but there is a pub there too - The Hatchet I believe... very good if you like rock music, if not you won't fit in). Quite how they ended up there I don't remember but I do remember agreeing to it at some point.

The telephone numbers are indeed all Vonage ones that ring the same phone. There is no UK office. There is no Netherlands office. There is no New York office. There is, however, a Florida office... within a house. It's a nice office and the chairs are exceedingly comfortable. You Americans certainly know how to turn a dead cow into a comfortable seat in ways that us Europeans just cannot fathom for an affordable price.... I do, however, digress.

My involvement in VC was as a developer. The basis was on low-pay (I received aprox USD5000 over the course of 4 years), 50% return of profits (I saw $0 of this - it made none as far as I'm aware) and I also received 2 all-expenses paid trips to stay with Chio - in September of 2007 and 2008. You will note this was the time that new features were added en-masse and the VC Beta was initially launched. I have had the priviledge of travelling in Chio's tan Ford Expedition (which has now been replaced) and it is just as exciting as I always imagined a tank with leather seats would be.

VC was originally going to launch using a template script purchased off the internet as Bliggle (which then became Bliggo and a separate company completely unrelated). This turned out to be a steamy pile of wank and so in late '05 I agreed to start working on the initial development of VC which was finished for aprox March '06. The code then sat unused for the best part of a year whilst Chio worked on other projects - at this time all of you nut jobs were buyign ABP left right and centre. Whilst Chio definitely did not make anywhere near the huge sums projected here off ABP (that's just bullshit... I've seen accounts to know he's not got any Yachts stashed away) - it was enough that he could bring in $5k a month more than he had been doing before after expenses for paying others related to ABP.

I was originally offered to work on ABP but turned it down in favour of VC - I found the project more interesting and wanted to be behind it. I thought it had great potential and so work began... once it sat there for a year I eventually poked Chio in to finishing the web templates and then in '07 flew over to finish the site and launch it.

So whilst I was over in FL everything went fantastically - I got a crap load of dev done, the new parts of the site (person to person payments amongst them) were coded on a new .Net infrastructure over the already-now-archaic Perl one and we started taking your feedback. After I left back for the sunny shores of Blighty (some of you probably have no idea how depressing going from 100 degrees to 40 degrees is in the same waking day) I continued to provide support for a while.

Back in the UK I set up (3 months prior to my trip in '07 to Florida) a software development company that writes and sells EPOS (tills for retail shops) software and complete retail management software. As any of you know setting up a real business takes a significant investment of time - and I could not operate on the basis of no pay, yet still do all the work. I created a series of things for Chio to chase up and finalise and I would allocate 3 days a month to do my wide of it.

Things that were being worked on included:
Debit cards (fully integrated with Payoneer - but the cards have serious issues internationally, their API is more flakey and an old man's dandruff filled scrotum and after talking to their head of IT during a telco I was left pondering their most basic technical knowledge)

Moving VC's processing internationally away from US to accept other "dodgy" types of payment

Diversifying VC's portfolio to generate a return on all of your money we were sitting on

Continuing to deal with support

Paying customers

Integration with NATS so that we could actually get some market penetration (I had to use that phrase on an adult board)

Actually getting PCI/DSS acredited was quite a big one for me. That's right folks... if you check the list VC isn't on it. One person spotted it and the rest of you shot her down. I was emphasising this long before launch - along with all other legal requirements of the business. I won't be drawn on how VC was actually setup technically, legally or infrastructure wise - but it was more creative than the kind of business I'd usually like to be involved in. I'd also like to clarify that my name is on no paperwork - and I've merely worked as a contractor from a technical perspective. Point was a lot wasn't right around this. New company appears, offers to do billing. "Great!" you all said... now only a couple of people pointed out that "You agree to our T&Cs" was required - when we had no T&Cs... and I don't think a single person ever pointed out that no company called Verified Charge, Inc. actually exists. Amazing what some HTML footer will do to people. I pushed for the correct infrastructure for servers so we could have sufficient security with offline racks and online racks... and I ended up with 2 VMWare virtual servers which powered the whole lot... not quite my original request, nor compliant.

VC worked by generating a payout file which was e-mailed to Chio and me at the end of each pay period. Once the payout file was generated, it was split in to a wire file, a cheque file, etc. and these were to be processed by Chio.

I can promise you that every single time I heard of aproblem with payment or saw a ticket I shouted at Chio on yoru behalf. From my perspective I could see the potential in VC being dwindled and the one thing I couldn't imagine was, this early on, giving the impression (pardon the pun) that we were a bunch of pirates. I was assured, DAILY, that payments had been made. When I went over a year ago was physically, in-person, shouting on a daily basis - and was told payments had been made that day, only to see a ticket a day later. I did try for you and would refuse to work until things were sorted on many occassions.

Where things weren't processed - I'm incredibgly sorry.

There were some bugs in the software - mea culpa - but any time they were reported to me (with one exception that took a couple of weeks) they were sorted within 24 hours. I'd hope those of you who dealt with me via support know I did try to sort a lot of issues out myself - all of which was entirely unpaid on the basis that I could turn this into my baby as it had potential.

After coming back from FL last year I left a big list of things to do... and I chased them up for 2 months, and nothing got done... then my e-mails started to be ignored, along with yours. Gone had the days where Chio would call me for hours or just to talk for no reason (which generally annoys me anyway as I'm much more a fan of productivity).

A number of family issues did occur to Chio - and I will not go in to these either as I don't think it is right. I do not think they were sufficient for completely cutting off, but I also don't think my direct parents dying should distract me from work either - I can mope in my time but work still needs to get done... they are things that some people would have not been able to deal with. Due to the lack of any staffing, finances or resources and no communication with me (else I would have taken the slack) - it meant nothing happened.

During this time VC also started to bill in some very gray areas. They billed 5x a month than the rest of VC put together. Problem was chargebacks started hitting left right and centre.

The letter from ACH people you were forwarded about problems paying was absolutely genuine. This was an unexpected spanner in the works. VC suffered from this... but it was told to you all far later tan it should hae been.

In about March of this year I finally spoke to Chio, I was doing my shopping at the time in the supermarket adn got a lot of odd looks during this phone call - it was the last time I spoke to him on the phone.

VC was insolvent.... Chio didn't want to admit it but roughtly 6x more was owed than was in the bank solely due to dodgy billing and chargebacks left right and centre that could not be disputed due to their nature.

I pointed out that 1 is less than 6, and that caused a fundamental problem. I suggested the sensible thing to do was stop billing for people immediately (eventually I took the billing side down myself after not having Chio do it despite requests). The site then stopped billing.

I assume none of you got paid after this point - but I do not know as since then I've only had 1 MSN conversation and about 10 one line e-mails with Chio. I infact sent a generic "Hey hows things" when I first saw this thread... my theory was if I got a response within 3 days then I'd possibly not send this message and talk through with him first - sadly no response which has forced my hand on this as I'm not going to sit on it forever.

UK3X which some of you mentioned is nothing to do with Chio. It was an entity setup and run entirely by me. The hosting side was merely a bit of cashflow whilst the software dev for epos got established. The hosting side has actually now been shut down as it was never intende to be long running. The only affiliation was Chio provided the domain name free of charge, and hence the registration details were the same.

Chio has a great family - I think they're all fantastic (especially to put up with him sometimes lol)... and I also love him dearly. He can be a creative genius and when the mood takes him he can be one of the most productive people I know. The key words there are when the mood takes him, this may be 1% of the time versus 99% of the time consisting of smoking and phone calls and grilling burgers. They're good burgers (not the film with Keenan and Kel although that is a great stoner film considering Nickelodeon make it...) - but not enough time was ever spent running it as a business... it was more spent as a lifestyle industry that could have supported his own billing.

He has now moved away from adult and in to the financial services in a different sector - I asked for (a relatively trivial) $1000 to help develop part of system for new thing he is working on - based on the fact my time is rationed ridiculously due to other comittments anyway and VC's epic fail - after this I didn't hear a lot back.

Chio doesn't deserve your hatred... although I can see why you'd think so. It was a misguided attempt, propper business ethics, ethos, procedures, policy and management were not followed. The same applies to every one of you who signed up - don't get on your high horses when there were so many warning alarm bells on this one and not one of you did propper due diligence. I'm not defending anyone... but everyone has a degree of blame in this and it's a lot easier to blame someone else than your own stupidity. Frankly - a lot of you really are 'stoopid americans (- joke for those of you who have had your senses of humour removed).

My financial gain from this? $5k for a few hundred hours of work. My usual rate is GBP £35/hour - if you split out the hours worked I ended up with *way* less than this.

My current finances? Fucked.

I'm actually a declared bankrupt from really bad student days. For a year I didn't even have a bank account and lived out of £20 notes I kept in my box of tea (yes I'm English of course I drink tea)... after finishing all that I started my current business which is run between three directors. We all elect to put almost 100% of profits back in to business so each month I take home a whopping £750, living with one of the other directors to make ends meet. This has been the case since last October. Prior to that I took home £0 and had to crash with family for a year to launch my venture. As it stands I am still broke... I'm not going to bullshit you about my nice shiny car, my big bank balance or my huge success. I have a business that's growing in a recession and gone from £0k to £100k turnover during 24 months - I'm proud of that... but I've not got any pimpin' cars or biatches drapsed on my hood (bonet for those of us that speak correct English).

Out of this I lost a huge chunk of my time, which if you add it up and take in to account the impact it had on my other business involvements actually comes to more than any one of your individual losses that I am aware of having looked in the database. I lost out as well - and whilst several of you have been able to just chalk it up to a loss I ended up pretty fucked too.

Despite all this, I think Chio is a great person and I hope he can sort his problems out. For what it's worth his life's been pretty dicked emotionally and now financially too - you can all smile that your wishes are not in vein on that front.

For those of you who do talk to him on a regular basis on the phone (and I know who you are lol)... I'm sure one of you will mention this thread. When you do I hope you also mention that I've tried to be balanced and am doing this for the right reasons... I don't want to dick anyone over - I just felt you should all receive a degree of explanaion.

If anyone has any specific questions (not related to legal, infrastructure setup, Chio's personal life or the size of my penis... it's woefully small) - then please post them and I'll try to answer them when I check back in this thread.

On behalf of what was Verified Charge, and for my invovlement in it, I would like to express apologies to you all. I take great pride in my work, and failure is the one thing I cannot stand. VC stands out like a sore thumb of failure that shouldn't be there for me... I feel bad for how it happened and I promise you I tried constnatly along the way - and my last phone call with Chio reflected my anger and possibly why he's avoided me since (words like useless, never trust you again, unbeliavable, fucktard, etc.).

I know VC could have worked - technically and as a business model. Sadly the model in my head was not the model ever rolled out to the real world, and my attempts to fix/change it were never applied.

If I had enough in my pocket to bank roll you all back I would... but first off I need to bank roll this month's rent lol.

I hope this will at least clarify things for people... and I hope I've not dragged this up unneccessarily and someone appreciates my mini-rant.

Guy

ill have a seat right here

this should actually be a new thread.

Guy, just wanted to say thanks for the post, it means a lot to some of us here who have been along for the whole ride :winkwink:

argh! (8 chars)

good to see chio has moved into the financial services industry.

tl;dr
basically "we fucked you guys over. lol. but check out how witty I am and how much I can say one thing using 900 lines of text talking about tea and other faggoty bullshit."

there, cliffnotes for everyone

I am somewhat surprised that anyone trusted Chio after ABP. That should have been more than enough warning for everyone. :2 cents:

I wish I could get my $100 back from Bliggo :1orglaugh

So, uhh.. MrGuy are you a content writer?

I guess that's how we say "Goodbye" in this industry....

i always thought chio was a fake nic :disgust

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I still don't get this part. So he essentially created a fraudulent company that never existed, bilked people into using it based on those fraudulent claims, and then ran and hid like a coward when his incompetence caught up to him. But hey, it's not his fault.

I don't care how nice the guy is, how many burgers he cooked for you, or what wonderful family members he surrounds himself with. Your story corroborates the fact that what he did in my opinion was fraud. Perhaps people should have questioned him more, but instead of looking in the mirror, I think a lot of people should be contacting the district attorney down in Florida if they lost anything of signifigance. Especially considering he's "working in the financial industry". Might be a good idea for those who he deals with now know his history of deception and fraud.

truth at 11! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I agree. Don't forget "con man" is short for "confidence man" which was based on someone who used to dress as a nobleman, approach and talk to people like he knew them, then ask "are you confident enough to lend me your watch?" ... when they did he'd simply run off with it.

Real confidence men are likeable. That's how they stiff their mark.

If the company setup was dodgy from the start then why would things be expected to improve?

Sad to hear. I spent a lot of time on the phone with him and he seemed like a good guy. I never spent a dime with him, he gave me stuff for free and even lent me money in a particularly low point in my life.

If VC wasn't a real company, what company was working with the banks? And is MrGuy saying Chio owes 6x of what was in the bank at one moment time and he took the rest before? MrGuy why don't you make this more interesting and tell us how much $ is involved or total lost or total owed. And how does one person go from doing this to working in the financial industry afterward? And what is this 'new thing' he's working on in the financial sector? Is he planning to pull the same thing in non adult processing?

Losing money is no laughing matter, or having it stolen.

Under $100K from my understanding was owed at the end. I know there was 10-20k left, of which I've no idea if any went back to customers. Without being 100% accurate I believe circa $70K was owed with $15k in the account.

Working doing personal trading now on financial markets and developing systems for them - not any service-based ones where he'll be pirating your money.

Business that was working with bank was an old incorporated business from the AVS days. It was a legal incorporated entity, but not Verified Charge, Inc.

Anyone who couldn't be bothered to read it, thinks I wrote too much - then the post probably wasn't for you. Perhaps if I'd written it in the form of an erotic story with Chio's lucious lips running over your cash it would have been better... If you did lose money or were involved and still couldn't be bothered to read it - fair enough. If you don't like my sarcastic witty wonderful sense of humour or love of cheeseburgers then I'm really that that fussed :)

PocketKangaroo - I guess what I meant by that paragraph was there was never any man intentions to run away with money or to "do an iBill", and had it not been for one or two truly abysmal decisions twinned with time recession took a plunge last Oct then VC would have muddled through and continued to pay everyone until it all got sorted. I whole heartedly agree on all your points but was merely trying to show it wasn't part of some calculated evil plan, more lack of foresight.... which I agree is absolutely inexcusable when dealing with other peoples money - hence a desire from my part to clarify this.

Guy

I'd really like my $400 and an apology and something for my time, but I'd settle for the $400.

Johnny Faghorn, which is friends with this guy is whining about $350 - where is everyone's money Johnny?

Better yet, where is Chio? YARRRGH!

You are a fucking idiot!

I thought you were dark jedi for a second, but even he isnt that fucking stupid...

if you are,.... youre that fucking stupid apparently....

This has nothignt to do with the other thread... Ill be t you shoe dosnt approve of what happened...

in fact shoe get in here.... whens the last time you hung out with or really even talked to Chio?

And youre a complete moron that has no trolling skills whatsoever...

Youre doing as good of a job as headless did...

Chio's VerifiedCharge not paying their WMs - thanks for posting, nitroxjeff.