All your research and knowledge really shows up in this post. So you are saying you have never downloaded pirated software and then purchased it?

Knowing that you have... and so have millions of others, and even Adobe as admitted that Piracy built them, it funds them. They ALLOWED the piracy to happen, they created holes in the software to make it easy, they provided it broken up to fit on discs.


You "ASSUME" all piracy is bad, when in fact is isn't. It's bad someone steals from you, it's not bad when you allow it to happen. Every basic marketing concept can be applied to Piracy, and yet our Industry tosses it all out the door.


What's SO funny is you people think Piracy is a one way door. People steal, money is lost, nobody ever buys if they can get it for free, ever. The logic on that is utterly stupid.

You know I respect you but I think you think that way because your work has never been pirated. So its easy to feel that way if you dont actually produce the content or the software.

Couple of issues here Paulie.

a) How do you propose making the torrent sites stop selling advertising? Ask them nicely?

b) Google does what the Piratebay does. It points people to where illegal content is. Neither HOST the content. They just link to it. Google 'cs4 master edition torrent'.

OH NOES! Links to torrents for the new photoshop.

So we have to tell Google they can't sell advertising anymore?

Who is going to 'ban' these sites and what are they being 'banned' from exactly?

Paul, you don't really believe the figures from this do you? I mean, you really think every pirated copy of a porn title, album or copy of PS represents a lost sale?

You have heard the MPAA actually ADMITED to fudging these figures anyway?

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/22...-to-lying.html

And who do you think has the power to impose your awesome ideas for stopping selling ads, banning sites and altering ICANN ToS?

The Great God of the Interwebz? After all, it is just a series of tubes, right?

CAVEAT: I am not condoning piracy, I am just asking Markham exactly how he sees his brilliant plan being implemented.

then they modify the software to disable that feature.

Oh Paul. I know it's hard to grasp all this.

Fortunately someone made a really easy picture to help explain it to you.

Hope this helps.

All the best.

Damian

http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/wp...-not-theft.png

CAVEAT: I am not condoning piracy, I am trying to help Paul understand that it is not the same as taking something physical from someone.

I have owned exclusive paysites for 10 years, a couple studios, plugins for paysites, and dvds. I also own several scripts and templates, which I sell and yes all have been pirated. And I have been partners in different Software. The only reason my scripts may not be pirated is simple, people buy them because they can't build them, so duplicating them isn't a cake walk because they are built around peoples needs.

I have also worked with pirated traffic pretty much since I got into the business. Starting with irc and newsgroups, p2p networks, social sites, all types of forums, and even a tad in torrents and even tubes. We pirated our own content, pirated our own software to get more exposure, even templates for different things pirated out by me once I finish, to produce traffic to my blog.

I really understand piracy, I know some piracy is straight up bad, I know sometimes it straight hurts and can kill something before it even has a chance. Often, that is needed. If open source free software companies worth millions or hundreds of millions can do it, with easy piracy.... The lesson is, piracy filters out the shit products/sites to leave only the good shit.

If you DRM your content, you should still pirate it. The difference is, you control what is being pirated, how it's being marketed, and how fast it gets out.

Piracy creates type in traffic, it gets people talking about your products all over the Internet who would have never seen or found it other wise. It's a kick ass marketing tool that owners have more control over than they think.


Piracy isn't a way one door of death.

You make it illegal for US companies to advertise on the sites. Not easy but not impossible.

Yes it would include Google, why not?


If I forget to pay for a domain it comes down. Very fast and very easy.


For someone who does not condone piracy you seem to think it's not as bad as it is.

Shows truly how wrong you are. Piracy is stealing jobs, careers, money and the possibility of making the Internet the awesome tool it could be for commerce and the world.

How physical do you want it to be?

TheDoc I have never knowing used pirated programs, music or films. One of my programmers was and he was instantly dismissed and his hard drive was gone through with a fine tooth comb. You would not think it so good if people could steal your programs. Maybe I should, get a programmer here to adapt them and start distributing them for free. Just charge to adapt.

You can speak to Damian because he says it's nothing physical. Damian that would be cool wouldn't it as it's not physical. :321GFY

Stick to card tricks.

I never said it would be easy to stop the pirates, but if it's not done we who do pay can expect to carry the leeches for ever. Ever thought without you leeches we would be getting it cheaper or better?

No it could never happen because you don't hurt sales.

if adobe was not concerned with photoshop piracy they would have never created photoshop elements, list price <$100.

also, intellectual property is an intangible asset protected by law from theft so the piracy isn't stealing argument doesn't hold water.

Do you think when you opened your paysite you had the skills to market it, brand, sales, ect? Do you think your name as a good content producer was good before you opened your first paysite? Good enough, that pirates help expose your work to millions that wouldn't have ever otherwise been able to ever, ever... find out about 'you'?

See, people don't just leech, they buy too. They get exposed to new things, from buying and leeching. I can give you an example.

Let me show you what a leech does. I found out about the cartoon named Alucard, I found some clips on Youtube. I found out that we have 2-3 different versions of the same cartoon. Researching, I found an illegal tube site. I watched the two versions on that site.

I went out and purchased the Japanese series of the DVD's. That same Website has exposed me to cartoons I have never heard of or saw before and had no possible chance of finding or knowing if I like them. And that same illegal site, got me to buy the DVD's, entire series of several cartoons.

Posting examples of my code gives me more exposure, that's why it has been posted before. If you can find a coder that can understand what I do, then he doesn't work for you.


If Piracy is the death of all for you. Why don't you spend the money to DRM your content? Every legal TV source online uses DRM, without issue, and you can offer downloads.

Protecting different adobe products and even parts of it, would be expected. And DRM now is basically kick ass, so what better time to get into that too.

But the timed update of CS and it's major feature jump, plus the correct in the key system. Basically set a standard, use the old that is like others that are equal to it and they are also free... Or now pay and use our clearly kick ass software that is the standard, and piracy basically ended for them. You have to wonder, they had the ability to correct Photoshop before CS, but didn't...

Exactly :2 cents:

Blizzard (and to a lesser success rate, Steam) do it

Online verification.

Any ideas how you would start doing something like that Paulie?

Give us a clue?

Who should we email?

So you are actually suggesting we BAN google from the internet?

Awesome. Class action? What are you suggesting we do here?


You seem to be confusing not paying your bills to changing fundamentally how ICANN works. Easy mistake to make.





I think it's awful. What about my posts suggest otherwise. I am not condoning piracy, I am merly mocking you for suggesting we ban google from the interwebs.

Hope that is clear now.

xxx

Citation needed.

I don't understand the question Paul.

If you steal a CD, someone cannot resell that CD. If you download a torrent of that CD, that CD can still be sold.

Did the picture not help you get your head round all this?

What?

I don't make 'programmes' Paul. I do marketing.

See, make something that people cannot pirate, and you don't need to worry.

I know we don't agree on most things Paul. But really, you still don't get it after I posted the picture?

And you, Sir, stick to shooting bored looking Eastern European birds desperate for money with bone dry cunts.


Paule. It is impossible. Forget it. You will never stop it. Ever.

I am not saying it is a good thing. I am saying it is an unstoppable thing.

You are more then welcome to come on GFY and post about your awesome anti-piracy plans of banning google from the internet, but really, it's a waste of time.

Did you know the first printing presses were viewed as piracy?

It will never stop.


Paulie, I've told you this before, and now I will tell you here.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

I've searched extensively on torrent sites, usenet and other sources of pirate content and there is NO MENTION of PAUL MARKHAM anywhere.

For some reason, the pirates don't seem to be interested in your content.

So, go to bed, relax, and sleep easy with the knowledge that your content is not on any pirate sources I have heard of.

Good news eh!?!

I think this is the key.

Maybe porn3.0 will all be in The Cloud.

The other solutions have been demonstrated by the music biz.

1) create fan base
2) create limited edition tanglible good
3) give away torrents of the content
4) sell limited edition tangible goods
5) create un-piratable live experiences

Now, video games have done this. All MMORPG games require authentication. Most online games work the same way. It's a live experience.

Music has done it. Reznor made 750k in 3 days doing exactly this earlier this year.

I imagine the big porn stars and porn brands have more fans than Trent does.

Hollywood has failed.

It is pointless trying to fight piracy. You will not win. Ever. Everything is crackable.

So, rather than do a Markham and actually suggest banning google from the internet*, let's move this on to a chat about what we can realistically do.

I have made my suggestions.

What do you think?

(And 'DRM' is not an acceptable answer :))



*clue: this is unlikely to happen

huh? It really isn't.

Google cs4 torrents and keygens.

It's not even hard.

Not that I am suugesting it is good to steal, far from it. But DRM causes more problems than it solves and is far from 'kick ass'

No it didn't.

Give one of those cs torrents or keygens a try and see how well they work. I'm sure some solid cracked one has made it, but it minor in the mess trash, and upgrades are damn important. From what PS had to what they have now, piracy basically ended for them. Since it's impossible for piracy to end, I didn't make that statement.

The new CS DRM which is a server login/check system didn't cause photoshop or the user any problems and it solved several huge problems. DRM does not cause the end user problems, hulu which is legal uses drm, fox, abc, msnbc, all use DRM protected movies, and it's seamless. Learn what DRM does for you legally, educate yourself.


Again though, another great example of total resistance to the only solution to Piracy problems and it gets bashed...

Fuck DRM, fuck Microsoft, fuck Adobe.

http://www.meanmyspacegraphics.com/g...k-you-guys.jpg

Greatest solution ever: All software companies put a fully-functional free version of the software on their websites for free. But the software will show ads all day long until you activate it. People who already pay for licenses will keep doing so. Pirate groups will make cracks to get rid of the ads, but most of the people were pirating the software from torrent sites/P2P will just download the ad supported version from the company website.

Over the life of the software, the company will make money from the people who would have stolen their software, even those who don't have the money to buy it.

External Software Locks are very effective, but very few software companies implement them because they sell so much of their software online.



Even Bill Gates said he doesn't care. He said that if they are pirating software in China, he sure hopes it's Microsoft's stuff and they'll figure out how to make money from it later.

No, I don't want to try them, but reading the comments they all work just fine. There are several version out there, with functioning key gens. No need to call home.


It has caused lots of problems. Kevin Rose for one, talked about it on Diggnation saying it would have been so much easier for him to pirate it.

In fact, it failed catastrophically:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/03...ive-suite.html

Educate yourself, rather than believe the DRM hype.

Also, have a think about how stupid or rich you would have to be to refuse 9% of your audience access to your content.

Yes, imagine if I said to you, that if you used DRM 9% of your target audience would not be even able to TRY and sign up?

(9% if the current usage percentage of linux and mac on w3schools)

I suggested other solutions.

DRM really isn't a solution. All it does is fuck up legitimate paying customers time and time again. Hope you didn't by any nusic from wal-mart as they are turning off their DRM servers.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/26...tting-dow.html

And any music anyone has bought from them will be unable to be tranferred to another device.

In games, Spore's DRM recently caused massive controversy:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/07...ewers-clo.html

But if you think porn can do better than hollywood, the music industry and the games industry, great.

WTF, are you slow?


First, creative "SUITES" isn't Photoshop, it's a Suite package software, of course it has problems. Warlmart shutting down DRM for Music... we are talking about Photoshop and at least maybe paysite Content. Who ever said DRM for Music was smart?


The "LARGEST" membership siteS in the world run on DRM (vod/ppm) flawless integration with almost zero customer complaints. From the backend, to the front, webmasters don't even know the galleries have drm on them. Educate yourself - you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.


Again, DRM is the ONLY solution. Clearly YOU have NEVER tried it, yet spew your crap trying to fool the masses. When I have tried it, try it every day, and use it for marketing too.


And even posting boingboing, come on dude, us real webmasters make fun of guys like him.

Ah lovely. Insults already. Often the mark of someone who is running out of intelligent ways to discuss a topic.

It's called Creative Suite. Not SUITES. But anyway...It's the collection of apps that Adobe sells that includes Photoshop.

I am dying for you to explain why Adobe selling Photoshop along with Illustrator et al would "of course" have problems?

Are you seriously suggesting that a standalone version of Photoshop will have no problems, but a group of applications sold together will?

How does that work then?

Yes, walmart are stopping the servers for DRM authentication. So if anyone bought music from Walmart, they are screwed.

Are you seeing how this relates?

It's DRM. Do you see?

Right. So DRM for porn is smart, and for music it is not smart? Is that your statement?

What about for Hollywood?

Your views intrigue me.

OK.

a) citation needed
b) why would do you think you would hear about customer complaints unless you work out side the company
c) every single large site's content is ripped and available for piracy.

So...I conclude that DRM doesn't work.

It's meant to protect content, and it doesn't. During the process, you refuse admission to 9% of your target audience and piss off legitimate customers.

What about it is good?

Are you really happy to dismiss that many potential customers?

Again with the rudeness. Why do you feel the need to be so agressive?

Do you? Why?

Are you saying the stories that boingboing reports are not true? Are you suggesting they are linking to stories that are made up?

Do you have any evidence to prove they three links I posted are lies?

No, course you don't.

I can find you many other links from other sources about how DRM protects little and does nothing but annoy legitimate consumers if that will make you happy?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=DRM...ient=firefox-a

There you go, 3,400+ articles for "DRM annoys legitimate customers". I am sure some of them are true, and not all from boingboing.

holy shitttt

I am wandering the same fields of thought.

Rude, I don't give a fuck about being rude or not. You spew bullshit here, I call your ass for it. Read up on my posts, it's not like I'm changing attitudes for you.

Sites with DRM that are godly in size and larger than any paysite.
http://www.aebn.net/
http://www.yappo.com/
http://www.adultrental.com/
http://www.hotmovies.com/
http://www.gamelink.com/

I can keep going..


PC's annoy legitimate customers, every software ever installed annoys legitimate customers. Of course DRM will have some issues, but it isn't so bad that you lose customers over it and it does protect your assets.

Hell, having a lock on my door keeps people out, but it's damn easy to kick the door down and still break in. But shit, since the lock CANT keep 100% of the people out, I might as well take the damn door down!

lets use a program called avs converter as an example, its a great piece of software that allows you to easily convert movie files from format to format (I have nothing to do with them).

Now can someone tell me what benefits they may have from all the avs converter cracks there are out there?

I agree 1000%

Also hotmovies and or cebn use just wmv drm or they have stuff that supports mpg etc?

Aye, I think you are correct, and I don't know if it supports mpg. Last I heard, most are working towards flash integration. Not sure if that means they will drop the download to own feature, which I also hear is used but isn't all that hot.

Clearly. I prefer to try and discuss things without resorting to name calling. But you knock yourself out.

OK. Let's take this one step at a time.

What exactly have I posted that is bullshit?

That you will lose 9% of your potential market?
That DRM causes lots of problems for legitimate users?

I have provided links to prove all that.

So what, exactly, are you saying is bullshit. Please quote examples.

You list some sites, some of which may use DRM. Well done. Point?

Actually, if you had read any of the links I had posted you will see that companies ARE losing customers over DRM.

There are lawsuits.

Electronic Arts, a leading maker of computer games, defrauds consumers through its "Spore" game, which "completely wipes their hard drive" and replaces it with an undisclosed program that prevents the computer from operating under some circumstances and disrupts hardware operations, a class action claims in Federal Court.

The class claims that "Spore," a virtual reality simulation game, contains "a second, undisclosed program" called SecuROM, a "form of Digital Rights Management (DRM) for computer games."

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41...-Lawsuit-Filed


Yup. Not because you can't keep 100% of the people out, but because it fundamentally doesn't work.