Well, I just got fucked in the ass bigtime. (pics)

[BV]

It's very humbling for me to be writing this because I am a very mechanically inclined individual and have worked in the automotive industry for about 10 years in the past as a certified cylinder head and block machinist.

Anyways the Chevrolet dealer called me last month and caught me off guard. I ended up going down and picking out a new 2008 Suburban. They were almost giving them away. I'm not really complaining about the price because I bought it way below dealer invoice plus let GMAC finance it at 0%.

Anyways to make a long story short I discovered some very bad major rust and corrosion going on underneath the vehicle about 2 weeks after I bought it. After seeing how bad this was I suspected the dealer would just give me a new one.

Well guess what, after 2 weeks of dealing with these cocksmokers, no dice. All they want to do is clean it the best they can and undercoat it.

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART I WANT TO PASS ON SO YOU ALL CAN LEARN:

When you buy a new vehicle, all those papers you sign, you waive your legal rights to be able to sue them and have a Jury.

Basically the only way to deal with it is with the Lemon Law. and that does not affect the GM dealer, only GM. The dealer is not liable for shit.

I have owned 10 or 12 new GM trucks and even a ZO6 Vette, never had a single problem. I didn't even think to look under this vehicle when I bought it. REMEMBER IT'S BRAND NEW!

So take my advice. If you buy a new vehicle look it over EVERYWHERE and underneath.
Also remember that you are fucked if you ever want to sue them in a normal courtroom.
Either you sign that waiver or they won't sell you the car.

Look at my new 2008 Suburban:


Corroded and pitted wheels and brake lines:


Frame rusted all over like this:


and this:


transmission oil pan:


look how corroded the aluminum oil pan is:



Here's a link to all the pics: http://raqweb.net/new_2008_suburban/index.htm

Looks good on the outside:

[Spunky]

Geez.it's like they didn't paint any of those parts at all.I wonder if it was sitting in water?

[_Richard_]

looks like it was parked in salt water.. only way it could be 'new' lol

sorry to hear man :\

[Lycanthrope]

Union craftsmenship at its finest!

Sucks man.

[umbralui]

sorry.... i know the feeling

[Sosa]

wow that looks like crap for being brand new. that sucks

[seeric]

saw an undercover story on cars that have been shipped out of new orleans all over the country and resold. you may be a victim.

[Furious_Male]

Has it been sitting on the lot since it was rolled off the assembly line?

[xenigo]

My brother is an attorney and I've learned a lot talking to him about misc things here and there. One thing I've picked up is that a waiver that absolves the dealer of liability won't protect them from stuff that is obviously just fucking wrong.

Here's an example. Going into an amusement park, somewhere during the purchase of the tickets that allow you into the park, you agree that if you are maimed or die during your visit, they aren't liable.

And that protects them from your stupidity, mostly. What it doesn't protect them from is THEIR stupidity. It doesn't mean they don't have to maintain their equipment, and it doesn't protect them from wrongful death lawsuits, etc.

Basically what I'm saying is this. Although you signed a waiver saying you won't be able to sue them... I believe you still CAN sue them - and win. This is because they didn't disclose to you this rust damage, and they are selling vehicles under the guise that these are NEW vehicles that aren't damaged. That is obviously fraudulent, and they are misrepresenting themselves. That's a recipe for a lawsuit - waiver or not.

[mynameisjim]

Wow, that's not just surface rust, that's some serious corrosion.

You sure the lemon law won't work in this case?

[seeric]

guaranteed that truck came outta a new orleans car lot. i'd be willing to bet at this point.

[BV]

Originally Posted by Furious_Male

Has it been sitting on the lot since it was rolled off the assembly line?

It was on their lot for 180+ days..

I thought about the flood thing, but this truck was made in Wisconsin.

Maybe they make the frame somewhere else, I don't know.

What's really fucked up is the truck was almost 40k sticker.

I bought it for like 34k

The book value today is only 24k, lol.

I feel like an idiot. I should have just bought a used 2008 that wasn't rusted out, I'd be better off.

20/20 hindsight is a bitch.

[seeric]

nevermind i didnt see its a 2008.

couldnt have been in katrina.

[Supz]

that is awful. Lemon law is your friend

[BV]

Originally Posted by xenigo

My brother is an attorney and I've learned a lot talking to him about misc things here and there. One thing I've picked up is that a waiver that absolves the dealer of liability won't protect them from stuff that is obviously just fucking wrong.

Here's an example. Going into an amusement park, somewhere during the purchase of the tickets that allow you into the park, you agree that if you are maimed or die during your visit, they aren't liable.

And that protects them from your stupidity, mostly. What it doesn't protect them from is THEIR stupidity. It doesn't mean they don't have to maintain their equipment, and it doesn't protect them from wrongful death lawsuits, etc.

Basically what I'm saying is this. Although you signed a waiver saying you won't be able to sue them... I believe you still CAN sue them - and win. This is because they didn't disclose to you this rust damage, and they are selling vehicles under the guise that these are NEW vehicles that aren't damaged. That is obviously fraudulent, and they are misrepresenting themselves. That's a recipe for a lawsuit - waiver or not.

yes i know, i've talked to 3 lawyers in the past 2 weeks.
the thing is this, if i loose i can get stuck with the dealers attorneys fees and even go more in the hole. It has happened as the lawyer showed me some past cases.

Fact of the matter is as bad as this looks not one lawyer would take it on contingency, and they all said they have seen similar cases go the other way.

At this point i'm just going to let them undercoat it and do their thing and if it comes back again they'll have to do it again, they have 3 chances.

I'm tired of dealing with it at this point. It's not worth the anguish I am suffering to further worry about it.

[aico]

You got sold a car that was from the Hurricane area, they ship them all out, cuz they are fucked up, to other dealerships far from teh hurricane area and sell them for super cheap as they are worthless to them. You probably could sue them, I would also contact the Better Business Bureau and report the incident.

I would also call the local news in your area and see if they are interested in doing a story about that particular dealership.

[Deej]

that is a lot of rust - although not that bad considering you will probably trade it or whatever you do with your old vehicles in a couple years.

However, if you plan on driving it at all - get those brake lines fixed pronto... nothing else is threatening but those brake lines...

[BV]

Originally Posted by aico

You got sold a car that was from the Hurricane area, they ship them all out, cuz they are fucked up, to other dealerships far from teh hurricane area and sell them for super cheap as they are worthless to them. You probably could sue them, I would also contact the Better Business Bureau and report the incident.

I would also call the local news in your area and see if they are interested in doing a story about that particular dealership.

i did, the guy never called me back, i figured he just didnt have time.

well guess what? i found out from the dealer that he did call him

but i guess since GM dealerships are a big revenue stream for newspapers and tv channels

they are not going to jeopardize that business

if it was some used car lot they would be all over it

[MrMaxwell]

Fuck, yes, call the news.
I never bought brand new any thing and wouldn't if I hit powerball tonight.. but if I did and found this I'd be mad and angry just like Al Capone.

The lemon law works for you even if you end up with problems later SO LONG AS YOU DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NOW. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NOW.

Warranty works the same way.
Say you have a problem but they can't figure out what is causing it.
If you're out of the warranty period but you can prove that you brought it in for that problem, even if it gets alot worse, they still will have to fix it.

The local media is ALWAYS a good idea.
And if you don't want to risk the legal fees, try small claims court.
$60 or so but there's usually a $4000-$20,000 maximum.
If you'd be happy with the maximum to make this up to you, go for it.

[BV]

Originally Posted by Deej

that is a lot of rust - although not that bad considering you will probably trade it or whatever you do with your old vehicles in a couple years.

However, if you plan on driving it at all - get those brake lines fixed pronto... nothing else is threatening but those brake lines...

yah i made sure i sent that pic to my insurance agent and let them know what was going on

let them know what they were insuring

tried to involve as many people as i could

[Martin]

Hey BV, that's not too bad. It's a truck, a little rust wont hurt it. Just get it under coated and drive that shit ;)

Where I live your car looks like that after one winter.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Deej

that is a lot of rust - although not that bad considering you will probably trade it or whatever you do with your old vehicles in a couple years.

However, if you plan on driving it at all - get those brake lines fixed pronto... nothing else is threatening but those brake lines...

I do not agree..
The metal could be weakened somewhere important and he'd never know.

[Fresh]

I would assume this goes under dealer fraud. Its something the dealers are very scared of being accused of and more and more people are doing it as they become aware of the law and take action.

Contact your attorney and see if he can find you a dealer fraud specialist

[BV]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Fuck, yes, call the news.
I never bought brand new any thing and wouldn't if I hit powerball tonight.. but if I did and found this I'd be mad and angry just like Al Capone.

The lemon law works for you even if you end up with problems later SO LONG AS YOU DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NOW. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NOW.

Warranty works the same way.
Say you have a problem but they can't figure out what is causing it.
If you're out of the warranty period but you can prove that you brought it in for that problem, even if it gets alot worse, they still will have to fix it.

The local media is ALWAYS a good idea.
And if you don't want to risk the legal fees, try small claims court.
$60 or so but there's usually a $4000-$20,000 maximum.
If you'd be happy with the maximum to make this up to you, go for it.

i checked into doing the small claims, here in florida its 5k
but if i loose i am still liable for their attorney fees

i'd be happy with a 5k discount, but it's not as easy as it sounds after investigating it and listening to lawyers that specialize in this sort of thing

[BV]

Originally Posted by Fresh

I would assume this goes under dealer fraud. Its something the dealers are very scared of being accused of and more and more people are doing it as they become aware of the law and take action.

Contact your attorney and see if he can find you a dealer fraud specialist

did that, it's not a slam dunk, i had the top 2 in the state both tell me the same thing

[BV]

Originally Posted by Martin

Hey BV, that's not too bad. It's a truck, a little rust wont hurt it. Just get it under coated and drive that shit ;)

Where I live your car looks like that after one winter.

yah that's what i'm gonna do,

[GetSCORECash]

It is not uncommon to see significant corrosion on the undercarriage of new vehicles. This includes the rear axle, trailing links, and brackets.

Take a look at this link http://www.tc-11.com/car_coat.htm

and make sure they apply something like TC-11 Car Coat and that they let it dry.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by BV

i checked into doing the small claims, here in florida its 5k
but if i loose i am still liable for their attorney fees

i'd be happy with a 5k discount, but it's not as easy as it sounds after investigating it and listening to lawyers that specialize in this sort of thing

I've never heard of lawyers at small claims court...
They have lawyers?
I don't seem to remember lawyers..


Don't buy brand new any more, man, it's always a fuckover. They're depreciating liabilities which must be maintained. Imagine a stock or bond which depreciated/devalued rapidly and had a monthly fee to pay...

Back when I had some dough to play with I always would buy a clean ass used car every time and almost always I would sell it for my purchase price+tags+insurance+fuel burned so when I sold it the next guy ended up buying my tags, insuring it, and fueling it for the whole year or two I had it

[xenigo]

Hey man...

There's no judge on earth who would think this problem is reasonable. That's the bottom line.

I'd go to court in an instant over this, regardless of what anyone said.

You feel fucked over, right? And rightfully so. Do something about it.

And MrMaxwell is correct. You don't need an attorney in small claims.

[MrMaxwell]

It was comical, like this,
Oh, hell, gas prices went up?
Man, that's going to cost someone..
And then I would laugh like a maniac because I was crazy

[brand0n]

hit em with a fucking bat

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by xenigo

And MrMaxwell is correct. You don't need an attorney in small claims.

I think that he meant he thought that they would have one and want him to pay for it if he happened to lose..

[stickyfingerz]

Its all surface rust from what I can see. Have them bead blast it and undercoat. You'll never have an issue from what I can see. Drive it 2 years and trade it in. Really really not worth the stress and effort to pursue it more than that. Next time take a creeper with you and slide on under and look around. Even with a new vehicle.

[BV]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

I think that he meant he thought that they would have one and want him to pay for it if he happened to lose..

yah that's what i meant, that's what a lawyer told me today even

[BV]

Originally Posted by xenigo

Hey man...

There's no judge on earth who would think this problem is reasonable. That's the bottom line.

I'd go to court in an instant over this, regardless of what anyone said.
.
You feel fucked over, right? And rightfully so. Do something about it.

And MrMaxwell is correct. You don't need an attorney in small claims.

Yah I wouldn't hire one for small claims but I'm sure the dealer would send his.

I was all for it until I had my consultation today.

I'm writing this off as lesson learned.

I just wanted to make people aware about how slimy these fuckers are with their dealer contracts.

If it was a slam dunk the lawyer would have taken it on contingency. This is a lawyer that thats all he does in florida and georgia, handle cases like this.

Hard to believe but it's not a slam dunk. And no judge would be involved, only an arbitrator.

I signed my rights away.

He told me that's the biggest problem he sees.

He said he has seen it a 1000 times.

People (me included) sign that shit without reading it, and if you do read it and figure out what it says and tell them your not waiving your rights he said 99% of the time they won't sell you the car.

That's what he told me.

[MrMaxwell]

Don't tell me that they make you sign "BINDING ARBITRATION" when you buy a fucking VEHICLE now... is that what you signed?! I thought that it was bad enough when they got away with it for Cellular phones and other small shit !

If it's "Binding arbitration" I think that >usually< neither side has a right to sue the other AT ALL, any way.

[Godsmack]

It's an American car, what did you expect? lol, but seriously.. that sucks! rust is pretty normal but this looks like some major corrosion.

[Ron Bennett]

Ditto what others have said ... looks like part of that vehicle has spent time under water.

xenigo is spot on ... you could likely still prevail in court, especially in an instance in which it very much appears fraud is involved.

Heck, you may even prevail in arbitration, if you chose (or are forced) to go that route, especially since the vehicle in question was sold as "new".

You likely have a realistic chance in duking it out with the dealer despite no attorney being willing to take it on contingency ...

But fighting back will likely cost you money upfront...

First question you should to ask yourself is ... is risking several thousand in litigation costs (and value of your time) worth the reward?

Followed up by ... what is your "loss" if you nothing? (ie. an unreliable vehicle that has little resale value)

Ron

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BV

I just wanted to make people aware about how slimy these fuckers are with their dealer contracts.

Remember our discussion on that other matter on here. I kept telling everyone that my brothers are in the car biz. What happened here isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Just buying the vehicle (even without the rust) you got "whacked" every which way but loose. That's just business as usual unfortunately.

[crockett]

Damn man do you think that might have been a flood car that was shipped here? BTW my dad is going through problems with GM with his diesel truck. It keeps shutting off and they can't seem to find the issue and it appears they are just trying to run him out of warranty.

[Iron Fist]

Originally Posted by Spunky

Geez.it's like they didn't paint any of those parts at all.I wonder if it was sitting in water?

Could be a hurricane special

[Cogitator]

salt water. definitely. You don't get that from just parking a new car in a car lot.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by crockett

Damn man do you think that might have been a flood car that was shipped here? BTW my dad is going through problems with GM with his diesel truck. It keeps shutting off and they can't seem to find the issue and it appears they are just trying to run him out of warranty.

Like I've said.. if he DOCUMENTS THE PROBLEM NOW they'll still have to fix it.

[BV]

I've done everything I can do really.
Lemon law is for 2 years and 60 days so if the shit comes back and they have to fix it again so be it, they have 3 chances according to the law, then there are some papers to file and they have 30 more days.

So I'm taking it in tomorrow and giving the their first shot.

I'm getting a loaner car from them, lol

If he's smart he better give me the biggest piece of shit hes got.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by BV

I've done everything I can do really.
Lemon law is for 2 years and 60 days so if the shit comes back and they have to fix it again so be it, they have 3 chances according to the law, then there are some papers to file and they have 30 more days.

So I'm taking it in tomorrow and giving the their first shot.

I'm getting a loaner car from them, lol

If he's smart he better give me the biggest piece of shit hes got.

Go in when they're busy and going to be for awhile.. Stand around for a few hours telling everyone calmly but directly how fucked you just got.. they'll do anything they have to do in order to get you off of the floor. Anything. And they can't exactly call the police on a calm person in front of all of these potential rape victims, now can they?

[BV]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Like I've said.. if he DOCUMENTS THE PROBLEM NOW they'll still have to fix it.

It's all documented.
GM has these pictures, i have a case number, i have all the shop receipts where the checked it out.
I was their worst nightmare.

Your average jo blo wouldn't have done half the shit i tried.

It was funny, when I went to the dealership today usually all the sales people swarm you. Today it looked like I had the plague. Everyone scattered like ants.

[BV]

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Go in when they're busy and going to be for awhile.. Stand around for a few hours telling everyone calmly but directly how fucked you just got.. they'll do anything they have to do in order to get you off of the floor. Anything. And they can't exactly call the police on a calm person in front of all of these potential rape victims, now can they?

Well actually they can. Because while i was tracking down the owner yesterday at his Jepp Dealership (this guy owns 2 dealerships in town) GM and Chrsler, anyways the Chrysler one is right next to the police station and I noticed a cop was parked right where i was circling around, so i stopped and chatted with him and showed him these pictures (which i have printed out)

He was flabergasted also. But i asked him what would he do to me if i parked this truck out in front of the dealership with a big sign on it how i got fucked and maybe put a web address on it so people can see it.

He said i could as long as i didnt block traffic, but i couldnt stop people as they were entering and i couldnt be on their property doing it because they could just have me removed.

Trust me I have thought of everything,

I fucked myself by signing the sales contract. Thing is all sales contracts have it. and you cant buy it without signing it.

its fucked up

go try to buy a car or just go ask to see a sales contract, anywhere, they all have it, i even stopped at the ford dealership and asked them

your basically stuck letting them fix it, and if they cant the lemon law kicks in

[beerptrol]

I was just thinking that. Take it and have signs painted on it. "I bought this lemon from So and So", 'This POS courtesy Of so and so". "Don't buy from #####"' lol

[FreeHugeMovies]

I would make a website going after the same keywords you are going after. Tell exactly what happened and the dealer’s refusal to help you. I would invite others to tell their horror stories with that particular dealer.

I almost did this with my last car I owned, but I just got a new one instead from another dealer.

[cess]

Originally Posted by BV

Well actually they can. Because while i was tracking down the owner yesterday at his Jepp Dealership (this guy owns 2 dealerships in town) GM and Chrsler, anyways the Chrysler one is right next to the police station and I noticed a cop was parked right where i was circling around, so i stopped and chatted with him and showed him these pictures (which i have printed out)

He was flabergasted also. But i asked him what would he do to me if i parked this truck out in front of the dealership with a big sign on it how i got fucked and maybe put a web address on it so people can see it.

He said i could as long as i didnt block traffic, but i couldnt stop people as they were entering and i couldnt be on their property doing it because they could just have me removed.

Standing outside with the car parked protesting the place is a little different than talking to people inside (calmy) while waiting on them(GM dealer). If they had you removed for doing that it would just make them look worse to anyone there.

Honestly though, even if you cost them a few sales it probably wouldn't make a different to the guy who owns the place.

It sucks but I would just move on and maybe even take it somewhere else to have it repaired "right" so I didn't have to deal with it anymore.