The Bailout Bill Just Failed - Not Passed - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

selena · 09-29-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherm

If you break up 700,000,000,000 evenly into the 305,291,233 people that live in the US according to http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html, that would be $2292 give or take per person. As you can see with the first stimulus checks, this did next to nil.

Now, if we can save banks, this will allow people to still borrow money for homes, cars, etc. This commerce would keep the economy moving. With the fat cats having no money, falling salaries, etc...This takes jobs away from Americans as the fat cats can no longer employ, etc.

The general person thinks that it's best for the country to save the common person, and it's just as selfish as the CEO's who think they deserve the world. If everybody would stop to thinking about me, me, me, we could all pull together and figure this out.

I know I'm in the minority and I know that this bill had a lot of BS attached...but overall, I think we needed this, and I hope they can counteract this with a new version shortly. let's split the difference between WS and the American people by a SMALL tax increase...This will strengthen the dollar once again, get the economy moving and possibly pull us out of a potential depression.

True, I am thinking only about me.

I just do not see how the long term consequences of a bailout mentality are going to do us any lasting good.

Slightly off topic, but I am curious...if that is the way we go, and we as a government do the bail out, are we then a socialist nation?

Brujah · 09-29-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

Not saying I did. But the majority of the dems did, but were not able to come together enough to pass it.

Why are you blaming the Dems if you didn't want the bill to pass? They did what you wanted but you still want to blame them for it anyway?

qxm · 09-29-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Why are you blaming the Dems if you didn't want the bill to pass? They did what you wanted but you still want to blame them for it anyway?

+1..... dems delivered more than half of the votes to make things happen... the reps only had to delivere half their votes to get the bill to go thru... but they couldn't do that....

Brujah · 09-29-2008, 12:47 PM

Bush is "very disappointed" with the vote.

webair · 09-29-2008, 12:47 PM

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

TampaToker · 09-29-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Im down with this plan

Peaches · 09-29-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

Somebody needs to check out that cool calculator that comes free with Windoz

09-29-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selena

True, I am thinking only about me.

I just do not see how the long term consequences of a bailout mentality are going to do us any lasting good.

Slightly off topic, but I am curious...if that is the way we go, and we as a government do the bail out, are we then a socialist nation?

By definition, yes we would be. But as we have seen, capitalism hasn't been our strongest trait as a country as of late.

There are no real answers here and I don't want to sound like a know it all. I am 100% sure that a lot of my beliefs are flawed. It is however how I have summarized it all in my head, and I do agree with a poster earlier:

We need to stimulate the economy by instituting better infrastructure: roads, bridges, etc...Which in turn will put more jobs out there for us, will make our communities nicer and it will pump up some public morale by seeing "change".

DateDoc · 09-29-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

Fuck off greedy fucks.

Fucking Dems mostly voted for it.
Most Rep voted against it.

Imagine that.

I was surprised 40% of the Dems voted against it.

Brujah · 09-29-2008, 12:55 PM

I would say Webair for President! However, the GFY republicans will scream: "handouts! Bail out the banks and insurance companies, but not the people. That'd be Socialism."

09-29-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

CHECK THE MATH....EACH PERSON WOULD ONLY GET $425....Not $425,000.

andrej_NDC · 09-29-2008, 12:56 PM

edited....

TheDoc · 09-29-2008, 12:57 PM

This bailout is bad people, it is not something you want unless you want inflation to be so fast that nobody, not the richest to the poorest, could afford even the most basic commodities.

We should "never" bail out other Countries Corporations, even if they are tied to ours. The logic on this is just stupid as Companies of all kinds fail in our own Country our Job losses is going up, we bail out "other non-americans" before our own. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

And we should "never" give the Gov a blank check without fully demanding the problem be corrected first. Do you understand that they are giving 700 billion, and "never corrected the problem". Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

Did you know they don't actually need 700 billion? That's just a guess of what "might" be needed. Nothing has actually been done to see what the real damage is, so they are guessing they "might" use this amount.

Have you ever gotten a loan without some type of collateral? Not many of us have that's for damn sure. Now, how many have filed bankruptcy, lost everything, and a few weeks later got a loan 500x times worth your net worth? - This is what "we" are allowing.

And finally, if we give 700 billion today, they will ask for Trillions tomorrow. Don't think this is even close from being done. I'm not talking about the banks, housing marking or our Eco. Well, I am - but in a different direction. Just wait until the Jumbo Loan issues kick in, to name another small example.

We must let the Majority of these Companies fail and the free market stand strong by buying up loss, taking a hell of a hit, but at least allowing our dollar some ability to come back. If you dilute the market with "free printed/made/fake money" - IT WILL NEVER BOUNCE BACK.

Peaches · 09-29-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

I would say Webair for President! However, the GFY republicans will scream: "handouts! Bail out the banks and insurance companies, but not the people. That'd be Socialism."

Again, DO THE ACTUAL MATH. $85B divided by 200mil people is $425 a person, NOT $425,000. People who can pay off their mortgages with $425 aren't the people being foreclosed on.

selena · 09-29-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherm

By definition, yes we would be. But as we have seen, capitalism hasn't been our strongest trait as a country as of late.

There are no real answers here and I don't want to sound like a know it all. I am 100% sure that a lot of my beliefs are flawed. It is however how I have summarized it all in my head, and I do agree with a poster earlier:

We need to stimulate the economy by instituting better infrastructure: roads, bridges, etc...Which in turn will put more jobs out there for us, will make our communities nicer and it will pump up some public morale by seeing "change".

Oh, no, I appreciate you exchanging posts with me, as I know I am not the most knowledable person on the subject.

I will say this. I believe we have to do the bailout, and I believe it because Buffet said we had to. Him I believe. (or that was my interpretation of what he said)

While there are no guarantees in life, I could swallow the bitter bailout pill a little better if I could believe that we as a collective whole would learn anything from it.

That is what I don't have a great deal of faith in.

09-29-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

I would say Webair for President! However, the GFY republicans will scream: "handouts! Bail out the banks and insurance companies, but not the people. That'd be Socialism."

That is the problem with the majority of voters..They believe everything they read before looking into it further. With that plan, people would see $425. Hardly enough to do anything for the economy, and with that fact, that plan is worthless as a whole.

People need to research before making decisions, as opposed to listening to Political candidates make promises that are skewed and far from fact checked in real time.

Nikki_Licks · 09-29-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Good read and not a bad idea

Peaches · 09-29-2008, 01:03 PM

Well, if you can't do the math on your own, at least trust Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/dividend.asp

BlackCrayon · 09-29-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Again, DO THE ACTUAL MATH. $85B divided by 200mil people is $425 a person, NOT $425,000. People who can pay off their mortgages with $425 aren't the people being foreclosed on.

I bet webair feels smart now.

Brujah · 09-29-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peaches

Again, DO THE ACTUAL MATH.

I posted before doing the math fact checking. I still believe the post I made regardless. If his math was correct, that's exactly the way it would be. Cries of Socialism.

Peaches, seriously.. you don't have to say "Do the math" more than once and post to every person that replies to webair.

marketsmart · 09-29-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherm

CHECK THE MATH....EACH PERSON WOULD ONLY GET $425....Not $425,000.

exactly...

Brujah · 09-29-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherm

We need to stimulate the economy by instituting better infrastructure: roads, bridges, etc...Which in turn will put more jobs out there for us, will make our communities nicer and it will pump up some public morale by seeing "change".

Similar to this maybe?

In fact, a Forbes.com article at MSN Money spells out other possible uses for the $700 billion contained in the latest bailout proposal:

* The nation's bridges need $180 billion in repairs.
* Rail infrastructure needs $185 billion in maintenance.
* $150 billion would provide every American with private health insurance, and also pay for a universal automated health-information system.
* The government could pay off the $500 billion cost of the war in Iraq. "Unlike investments in distressed assets, paying for the Iraq war won't produce a return, but $700 billion would stem the government's future debt obligations to its creditors," the article says.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...00Billion.aspx

Bojangles · 09-29-2008, 01:13 PM

I just had some cookie crisp. Talk about yummy.

uno · 09-29-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

That would be the chain letter with the horribly incorrect math I was referring to.

Imortyl Pussycat · 09-29-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bojangles

I just had some cookie crisp. Talk about yummy.

that sounds so good right now. and on topic, i watched the top economic guys ont the tele talkin about the money being given to us to spend as well. i totally agree with that idea over any bailout that wont change a thing. stimulate spending and the rest will follow

SkeetSkeet · 09-29-2008, 01:20 PM

watched this whole thing today .... nuts

qxm · 09-29-2008, 01:21 PM

and we closed at - 777.68 .... nuts!

Rodent · 09-29-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a ""We Deserve It Dividend"".

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

"We Deserve It Dividend".

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed
Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is
being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult
U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

"We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because
$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Thats some great math

Must be by the same people who sold houses to people with no income.

sltr · 09-29-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imortyl Pussycat

that sounds so good right now. and on topic, i watched the top economic guys ont the tele talkin about the money being given to us to spend as well. i totally agree with that idea over any bailout that wont change a thing. stimulate spending and the rest will follow

actually, we should stimulate saving. if everyone took that $425 and saved it THAT would go a long way towards getting things squared away.

datatank · 09-29-2008, 01:35 PM

If you host with webair I would double check that hosting bill

LOL

seeric · 09-29-2008, 01:39 PM

paulson is gonna come on tv and cry now.

Snake Doctor · 09-29-2008, 01:48 PM

Webair you suck at teh mathz

Zebra · 09-29-2008, 02:03 PM

BREAKING NEWS - New economic stimulus plan announced: https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/858307-webcashmaker-com-introduces-webmaster-bailout-plan.html

SomeCreep · 09-29-2008, 02:28 PM

The republicans just lost the presidency for John Mccain.

I bet Barack is already celebrating.

09-29-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Similar to this maybe?

In fact, a Forbes.com article at MSN Money spells out other possible uses for the $700 billion contained in the latest bailout proposal:

* The nation's bridges need $180 billion in repairs.
* Rail infrastructure needs $185 billion in maintenance.
* $150 billion would provide every American with private health insurance, and also pay for a universal automated health-information system.
* The government could pay off the $500 billion cost of the war in Iraq. "Unlike investments in distressed assets, paying for the Iraq war won't produce a return, but $700 billion would stem the government's future debt obligations to its creditors," the article says.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...00Billion.aspx

Scootermuze · 09-29-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

The republicans just lost the presidency for John Mccain.

...

and he didn't help himself just now on tv when he said they all need to come together on this and stop the blame game... then in his next breath blame Obama and his people for today's hold-up...

Gotta love that ol' fella..

seeric · 09-29-2008, 02:51 PM

mcpain!!!!!!!!

RayBonga · 09-29-2008, 02:54 PM

Consider one more experimental example to prove the point: the ultimatum game. You are given $100 to split between yourself and your game partner. Whatever division of the money you propose, if your partner accepts it, you each get to keep your share. If, however, your partner rejects it, neither of you gets any money.

How much should you offer? Why not suggest a $90-$10 split? If your game partner is a rational, self-interested money-maximizer -- the very embodiment of Homo economicus -- he isn't going to turn down a free 10 bucks, is he? He is. Research shows that proposals that offer much less than a $70-$30 split are usually rejected.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...nion-rightrail

Wall Street / Paulson offered at $90/$10 split. America balked.

Snake Doctor · 09-29-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Similar to this maybe?

In fact, a Forbes.com article at MSN Money spells out other possible uses for the $700 billion contained in the latest bailout proposal:

* The nation's bridges need $180 billion in repairs.
* Rail infrastructure needs $185 billion in maintenance.
* $150 billion would provide every American with private health insurance, and also pay for a universal automated health-information system.
* The government could pay off the $500 billion cost of the war in Iraq. "Unlike investments in distressed assets, paying for the Iraq war won't produce a return, but $700 billion would stem the government's future debt obligations to its creditors," the article says.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...00Billion.aspx

How can you "pay off" the $500 billion cost of the Iraq war by borrowing $500 billion? The fact that they went on to add that it would "stem the government's future debt obligations to its creditors" is even more stupid.

The $150 billion would only buy one year of universal health coverage for every American.

It's not like the govt had 700 billion just sitting around and now the President wants to use it on this financial bailout instead of something else.
We have to borrow 700 billion because it's an emergency...the whole idea of "we could do this or that with the money instead" is pretty ridiculous.

Dollarmansteve · 09-29-2008, 03:19 PM

Id just like to point out that no one is "giving" 700B to anyone. The government is proposing becoming a "market maker" or buyer-of-last-resort for distressed assets (ie high-risk securities backed by not-so-great mortgages).

If it saves the system, the long term benefits far outweigh the short term ramifications. I don't think anyone wants to live in an illiquid economy, that means ONLY the rich will have anything. If businesses don't have easy access to credit, the first thing they do is fire people. If people don't have access to credit they don't buy homes or cars or appliances.. or anything other than the basic necessities. But lots of people wouldn't be buying anything since they would be unemployed.

sltr · 09-29-2008, 03:20 PM

free money for everyone!

yay!111111

TheDoc · 09-29-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Id just like to point out that no one is "giving" 700B to anyone. The government is proposing becoming a "market maker" or buyer-of-last-resort for distressed assets (ie high-risk securities backed by not-so-great mortgages).

If it saves the system, the long term benefits far outweigh the short term ramifications. I don't think anyone wants to live in an illiquid economy, that means ONLY the rich will have anything. If businesses don't have easy access to credit, the first thing they do is fire people. If people don't have access to credit they don't buy homes or cars or appliances.. or anything other than the basic necessities. But lots of people wouldn't be buying anything since they would be unemployed.

The market should fall so we can see what it's real value is. If the market wasn't already filled with fake assets, bids, ect - inflation would be much more under control and we could deal with this bailout at a much more logical level.

We did fine in the 80s when nobody was buying shit on Credit since the interest rate was through the roof. We still had growth through the 80's even though we had a few mild recessions.

An Economy that has to survive on credit isn't doing so well, credit is what caused this problem. 99.9% of the people that did get a loan business or personal, wouldn't have qualified for the same loan with the same credit, 10 years before, or even 5.

Companies don't need loans, what they need is to not be taxed 35% on the money they bring into the Country. Who wants to open a business, move 1B over and be taxed 35% just to start a new business? Nobody.....

bhutocracy · 09-29-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollarmansteve

Id just like to point out that no one is "giving" 700B to anyone. The government is proposing becoming a "market maker" or buyer-of-last-resort for distressed assets (ie high-risk securities backed by not-so-great mortgages).

If it saves the system, the long term benefits far outweigh the short term ramifications. I don't think anyone wants to live in an illiquid economy, that means ONLY the rich will have anything. If businesses don't have easy access to credit, the first thing they do is fire people. If people don't have access to credit they don't buy homes or cars or appliances.. or anything other than the basic necessities. But lots of people wouldn't be buying anything since they would be unemployed.

People really don't understand what it means. They think they have the safety to cast judgement and luxuriating in the financial sector getting their comeuppance. That opposing the plan is taking care of the normal everyday American. Thats all fine while they sit at home watching the market tumble and they've got no shares or direct investments and they still see the rebills coming in and not being able to think 6, 12, 18 months out and what happens when the credit markets freeze and they don't have the luxury of schadenfraude when it's no longer just a stock market problem...

bhutocracy · 09-29-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Companies don't need loans, what they need is to not be taxed 35% on the money they bring into the Country. Who wants to open a business, move 1B over and be taxed 35% just to start a new business? Nobody.....

Sorry mate, but this isn't true and besides you're framing the question using companies, what about small businesses? People don't have 1B to move arround. Most small businesses need some kind of loan to get going and have the money to employ people. Credit isn't inherently bad. Without credit there is no American dream, there is no individual going out and making it with an idea and blood and sweat. He can't even borrow money from family because they don't have access to anything. Cutting tax rates 10% aren't going to help him. He can't get started and he can't go on to employ people. People will eventually realise what this means.

chodadog · 09-29-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webair

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

$85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425

Four hundred and twenty five dollars.

seeric · 09-29-2008, 07:10 PM

my ballssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

brandonstills · 09-29-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A1R3K

Fuck off greedy fucks.

Fucking Dems mostly voted for it.
Most Rep voted against it.

Imagine that.

The majority of Democrats voted against it... but the for % was higher in Dem's than the GOP.

Brujah · 09-30-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datatank

If you host with webair I would double check that hosting bill

LOL

That was funny.

Socks · 09-30-2008, 12:30 AM

Stupid to blame the democrats, just shows how your knee-jerk reactions cloud your better judgment.

If the democrats had "got together" and voted to win it outright themselves, they're taking ALL the responsibility for this bill. If it fails, or MIGHT fail, or has anything to do with failure, HELL, even if it mostly worked, the Republicans can just turn around and blame the democrats, saying they all voted against it, and the democrats voted it in by themselves.

That might show a little bit of... hahaha... NAY EV I TAY.

09-29-2008, 12:47 PM	#105
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Bush is "very disappointed" with the vote. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

09-29-2008, 12:47 PM	#106
webair Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 8,531	I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a ""We Deserve It Dividend"". To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend". Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000. What would you do wi th $297,500 to $595,000 in your family? Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car - create jobs Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces. If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President. If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bai l out every adult U S Citizen 18+! As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up. Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC . And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. __________________ ~ Webair Dedicated Cloud Servers™ ~ WEBAIR VSYS™ Virtual Hosting Platform ~ Superior CDN Network ~ ~ Managed Dedicated hosting Specialists ~ DISCOUNT DOMAIN NAMES! ~ WEBAIR FUSION IO MANAGED CLOUD SERVERS! ~ *ICQ:* 243116321 - *TWITTER* - @WEBAIRINC - E-Mail: [email protected]

09-29-2008, 12:55 PM	#111
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	I would say Webair for President! However, the GFY republicans will scream: "handouts! Bail out the banks and insurance companies, but not the people. That'd be Socialism." __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

09-29-2008, 12:56 PM	#113
andrej_NDC Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7,760	edited.... Last edited by andrej_NDC; 09-29-2008 at 12:59 PM..

09-29-2008, 12:57 PM	#114
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	This bailout is bad people, it is not something you want unless you want inflation to be so fast that nobody, not the richest to the poorest, could afford even the most basic commodities. We should "never" bail out other Countries Corporations, even if they are tied to ours. The logic on this is just stupid as Companies of all kinds fail in our own Country our Job losses is going up, we bail out "other non-americans" before our own. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And we should "never" give the Gov a blank check without fully demanding the problem be corrected first. Do you understand that they are giving 700 billion, and "never corrected the problem". Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Did you know they don't actually need 700 billion? That's just a guess of what "might" be needed. Nothing has actually been done to see what the real damage is, so they are guessing they "might" use this amount. Have you ever gotten a loan without some type of collateral? Not many of us have that's for damn sure. Now, how many have filed bankruptcy, lost everything, and a few weeks later got a loan 500x times worth your net worth? - This is what "we" are allowing. And finally, if we give 700 billion today, they will ask for Trillions tomorrow. Don't think this is even close from being done. I'm not talking about the banks, housing marking or our Eco. Well, I am - but in a different direction. Just wait until the Jumbo Loan issues kick in, to name another small example. We must let the Majority of these Companies fail and the free market stand strong by buying up loss, taking a hell of a hit, but at least allowing our dollar some ability to come back. If you dilute the market with "free printed/made/fake money" - IT WILL NEVER BOUNCE BACK. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

09-29-2008, 12:27 PM	#101
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992

09-29-2008, 01:03 PM	#119
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	Well, if you can't do the math on your own, at least trust Snopes http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/dividend.asp

09-29-2008, 01:13 PM	#124
Bojangles Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,419	I just had some cookie crisp. Talk about yummy.

09-29-2008, 01:20 PM	#127
SkeetSkeet Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: StarlightBucks ! Posts: 5,404	watched this whole thing today .... nuts __________________ ICQ 283633188

09-29-2008, 01:21 PM	#128
qxm Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NoHo Posts: 5,970	and we closed at - 777.68 .... nuts! __________________ ICQ: 266990876

09-29-2008, 01:35 PM	#131
datatank Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: My dog is blacker than Tupac Posts: 5,471	If you host with webair I would double check that hosting bill LOL

09-29-2008, 01:39 PM	#132
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	paulson is gonna come on tv and cry now.

09-29-2008, 01:48 PM	#133
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Webair you suck at teh mathz __________________ sig too big

09-29-2008, 02:03 PM	#134
Zebra Banned from Kimmy's couch Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Down at Fraggle Rock Posts: 5,091	BREAKING NEWS - New economic stimulus plan announced: https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/858307-webcashmaker-com-introduces-webmaster-bailout-plan.html __________________ Old School

09-29-2008, 02:28 PM	#135
SomeCreep :glugglug Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Wild Things Are Posts: 26,118	The republicans just lost the presidency for John Mccain. I bet Barack is already celebrating. __________________ Webair Hosting I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

09-29-2008, 02:51 PM	#138
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	mcpain!!!!!!!!

09-29-2008, 02:54 PM	#139
RayBonga too cool for highschool Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: East side, West side, Worldwide! Posts: 12,164	Consider one more experimental example to prove the point: the ultimatum game. You are given $100 to split between yourself and your game partner. Whatever division of the money you propose, if your partner accepts it, you each get to keep your share. If, however, your partner rejects it, neither of you gets any money. How much should you offer? Why not suggest a $90-$10 split? If your game partner is a rational, self-interested money-maximizer -- the very embodiment of Homo economicus -- he isn't going to turn down a free 10 bucks, is he? He is. Research shows that proposals that offer much less than a $70-$30 split are usually rejected. http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...nion-rightrail Wall Street / Paulson offered at $90/$10 split. America balked.

09-29-2008, 03:19 PM	#141
Dollarmansteve Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: T.O. Posts: 2,849	Id just like to point out that no one is "giving" 700B to anyone. The government is proposing becoming a "market maker" or buyer-of-last-resort for distressed assets (ie high-risk securities backed by not-so-great mortgages). If it saves the system, the long term benefits far outweigh the short term ramifications. I don't think anyone wants to live in an illiquid economy, that means ONLY the rich will have anything. If businesses don't have easy access to credit, the first thing they do is fire people. If people don't have access to credit they don't buy homes or cars or appliances.. or anything other than the basic necessities. But lots of people wouldn't be buying anything since they would be unemployed. __________________ I died.

09-29-2008, 03:20 PM	#142
sltr Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,191	free money for everyone! yay!111111

09-29-2008, 07:10 PM	#147
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	my ballssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

09-30-2008, 12:30 AM	#150
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Stupid to blame the democrats, just shows how your knee-jerk reactions cloud your better judgment. If the democrats had "got together" and voted to win it outright themselves, they're taking ALL the responsibility for this bill. If it fails, or MIGHT fail, or has anything to do with failure, HELL, even if it mostly worked, the Republicans can just turn around and blame the democrats, saying they all voted against it, and the democrats voted it in by themselves. That might show a little bit of... hahaha... NAY EV I TAY.