TGPs - The owner of the biz - GoFuckYourself.com

RMG · 10-29-2002, 08:37 PM

Some posts on another message board sparked some thoughts in me. More now than ever we are seeing tgp's spring up left and right...no big deal. Now more than ever SPONSORS are seemingly forced into TGP based business models and some seem to be losing and dying out. A rather large sponsor has stated that they no longer are able to obtain substantial profits from their recurring memberships. My response (as well as many others) was that the members area's simply lacked. The sponsors response was that the surfers are now more educated than ever on the "system" and are abusing it left and right. Add that to the fact that probably 80% of their affiliates generate traffic by means of TGPs and you have a real problem.

Almost any and every sponsor out now has free hosted galleries and things of that nature. Which is good for the TGP owners as its a win/win situation...free content and revenue generation. But I see this as caving into the realm of "free porn for all". It also shows that smaller/medium size TGPs are having trouble generating revenue from past methods and are in turn teaching the surfers that you don't have to pay for porn.

The effect of this has caused an interesting side affect....surfers are savvy enough to purchase 3 day trials...cancel and simply signup again at a later date for 2.99 or whatever the trial price is.

Things seem to be getting worse rather than better for the TGP model.....any ideas, comments, suggestions anyone?

RMG · 10-29-2002, 08:38 PM

Also...any feedback from paysite owners on the productivity of TGP traffic to their site VS tgp traffic to an affiliate site would be great.

Brown Bear · 10-29-2002, 08:46 PM

There are plenty of sites that don't have trials and they make many thousands and thousands of profits.

.:Frog:. · 10-29-2002, 09:16 PM

I'm 100% serious, every "megaSite" I've joined from a large sponsor was under par. They have too much generic porn and not enough niche content.

I'm not sure if that is the case with your friend, but I bet it is. His niche content is likely smaller then the niche listings on a TGP.

FATPad · 10-29-2002, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RMG
A rather large sponsor has stated that they no longer are able to obtain substantial profits from their recurring memberships.

Who said that?

Backov · 10-29-2002, 09:30 PM

Well, we don't have trials (trials suck ass - they do nothing but harm as far as I'm concerned. There's very good reasons programs like them, and those reasons are easy enough to enumerate.)

We also have hosted galleries - however, and here is the caveat - they're not templated "clean" crap.. They're aggressive as hell. Too aggressive for some - our latest galleries were rejected from paid listings on the hun, they were just too aggressive. They work for us, but you wouldn't want to make the freeloading scum, erm, surfer click on anything that isn't free porn, right Patrick?

Anyway, that's another beef.

I think that the problem with a lot of hosted galleries is that they are just straight up filler crap - the guys came up with one or two templates and cranked out hundreds of them in the hopes that if you throw enough traffic at it, maybe one or two will convert. That's not the way - it just adds to the problem as you pointed out - more free porn.

You can bet when an aggressive strategy with DRM and Video becomes possible, we'll be there too. We're already doing some stuff in that area.

As for paysites sucking - yes, most big program paysites suck complete and utter ass. You can tell a program is shaving/heavily/upselling/something when you look at their sites and they suck so horrendously you couldn't imagine them retaining even a month. Great example - ARS. I can't imagine how they can pay $35 a signup. Oh, wait a minute, I can. ;>

Anyway, don't despair. The people that give it all away for free are hurting themselves more than the people who actually sell it. ;>

Cheers,
Backov

m0rph3us · 10-29-2002, 09:37 PM

stop offering trials if they aren't profitable. Maybe some of those 39.95 shit sites should realize that in fact they aren't worth 39.95 since their recur is 1.4 months average.

andrew1009 · 10-29-2002, 09:44 PM

Keep the trials, but charge for for them. Instead of $2.95, charge $5.95-$7.95.

TDF · 10-29-2002, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Backov
Well, we don't have trials (trials suck ass - they do nothing but harm as far as I'm concerned. There's very good reasons programs like them, and those reasons are easy enough to enumerate.)

We also have hosted galleries - however, and here is the caveat - they're not templated "clean" crap.. They're aggressive as hell. Too aggressive for some - our latest galleries were rejected from paid listings on the hun, they were just too aggressive. They work for us, but you wouldn't want to make the freeloading scum, erm, surfer click on anything that isn't free porn, right Patrick?

Anyway, that's another beef.

I think that the problem with a lot of hosted galleries is that they are just straight up filler crap - the guys came up with one or two templates and cranked out hundreds of them in the hopes that if you throw enough traffic at it, maybe one or two will convert. That's not the way - it just adds to the problem as you pointed out - more free porn.

You can bet when an aggressive strategy with DRM and Video becomes possible, we'll be there too. We're already doing some stuff in that area.

As for paysites sucking - yes, most big program paysites suck complete and utter ass. You can tell a program is shaving/heavily/upselling/something when you look at their sites and they suck so horrendously you couldn't imagine them retaining even a month. Great example - ARS. I can't imagine how they can pay $35 a signup. Oh, wait a minute, I can. ;>

Anyway, don't despair. The people that give it all away for free are hurting themselves more than the people who actually sell it. ;>

Cheers,
Backov

i agree. hosted galleries are for self made TGP's and some people dont seem to realize that. You cannot realistically hope to make sales off of submitting galleries that every surfer has seen hundreds of times...some programs actually have great gallery makers whos galleries arent over agressive and really have a "homemade feel". Keep tweaking your traffic and text links and see what works for you..

FATPad · 10-29-2002, 09:47 PM

Trials suck.

The only reason to offer a trial is so you can advertise a 3 day trial for $2.95, then hide some retarded clause in your TOS's which says if you don't cancel your 3 day trial within 48 hours, you will be rebilled at the low monthly rate of $39.95.

Most of the big per signup sponsors are doing something similar to that.

TDF · 10-29-2002, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andrew1009
Keep the trials, but charge for for them. Instead of $2.95, charge $5.95-$7.95.

or 9.95

Prophet · 10-29-2002, 09:59 PM

ive looked at the big tgps and alot of it IS the same thing over and over agian...it seems only the fetish related sites are getting daily original content.

What it means is that to break the cycle of surfers maybe everyone needs to pull together into a new standard this includes the TGPS and the personal sites working together to send traffic and fresh updated content,then you will see an increase in $$$ being spent

Another thing to do is to cut down on the amnt of free content and on the trail memberships all together...

Just a thought.But why not generate money for everyone instead of fighting over whos gonna get all the hits?

just my 2cents on this from someone coming from the "other side" of the fence into all of your people's playing field.

Steve · 10-29-2002, 10:32 PM

Watch TGPs - in one year, you will either be seeing all sponsor hosted galleries (cutting out the middle man), TGP owner galleries, or paid submits.

This is quickly devolving into the TGP2 problem - soon only site onwers will be getting the traffic from these sites.

.:Frog:. · 10-29-2002, 10:39 PM

I made a TGP (now removed) that was using 100% sponsor hosted galleries.
It didn't convert well or generate bookmarks.

SleazyDream · 10-29-2002, 10:54 PM

many EXTREMELY successful business that make money in the TGP marketplace don't have trials.

example - Adult Friend Finder, Legondary Lars's CumTV and everyone's favorite GFY guy Quiet are some examples off the top of my head...........

redshift · 10-29-2002, 11:14 PM

If the goverenment would go ahead and outlaw free porn then all of us would make a shit pot full of money

All the TGP's go away all the Free sites go away etc...

if Mr. horny surfer wants to jack off then he must pay to play

<IMX> · 10-29-2002, 11:17 PM

Steve--
I agree.

Small generic TGPs that are run "for profit" aren't going to make it much longer. And larger TGPs aren't giving the gallery maker much room to earn a living, as they are trying to maximize surfer welfare and not their pocket book.

If TGPs start relying on programs to give hosted galleries, well hosted galleries are going to be more and more aggressive ;)

That will be good for all ;)

SleazyDream · 10-29-2002, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redshift
If the goverenment would go ahead and outlaw free porn then all of us would make a shit pot full of money

All the TGP's go away all the Free sites go away etc...

if Mr. horny surfer wants to jack off then he must pay to play

instead the gov't is going to play evil games with VISA and shut down all the paysites hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

free porn forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

redshift · 10-29-2002, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

instead the gov't is going to play evil games with VISA and shut down all the paysites hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

free porn forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe - Maybe Not
Personally I don?t think the Gov't has anything to do with the VISA shit - It all has to do with crooked webmasters screwing customers over and VISA responding.

The "online" porn business is the only place I've seen the attitude that the customer is someone to fuck over instead of someone to take care of so that they will be happy and spend more money.

shit like "3 DAY FREE TRIAL" - yea it's free alright until you read the fine print and they get charged for 5 more sites at 30 bucks a pop or more

I just don't understand the mentality

just my

<IMX> · 10-29-2002, 11:58 PM

Hmm. I wonder what will come after TGPs.

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by <IMX>
Hmm. I wonder what will come after TGPs.

TGP's behind AVS prolly

Sly_RJ · 10-30-2002, 12:05 AM

Like Sleazy said, I've seen several galleries from quiet... they're obviously still working.

Hustlin Entertainment · 10-30-2002, 12:06 AM

Choder · 10-30-2002, 12:07 AM

What about something like $15 for the first month and $40 for each month after that? I think that would work well.

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Choder
What about something like $15 for the first month and $40 for each month after that? I think that would work well.

why not just charge people what you SAY your are going to charge them??????????? honesty usually does better for a long term business model.

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:10 AM

I think if a paysite is going to offer a trail it should be done either like CFF does it where the trial does now get access to the full site or the customer can only join via trial only once every two months

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

why not just charge people what you SAY your are going to charge them??????????? honesty usually does better for a long term business model.

Honesty in the online porn business - damn what a novel idea

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redshift

Honesty in the online porn business - damn what a novel idea

many that have been upfront about it have made fortunes AND can sleep at night.

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

many that have been upfront about it have made fortunes AND can sleep at night.

see thats my problem - If I was dishonest I could have retired by now(not in porn but my brick and morter)

just can't do it - just cant

awu · 10-30-2002, 12:26 AM

The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites.

The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by awu
The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites.

The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king

Quit telling the secrets

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by awu
The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites.

The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king

I'm sure TGPs would like to know about the galleries you submit so they can yank them from their archives.

beemk · 10-30-2002, 12:37 AM

tgps could just charge 10 cents a month if they wanted to

RMG · 10-30-2002, 12:39 AM

Hmm...this isnt what I had intended at all with this thread heh. Interesting discussion none the less.

I was talking about how TGPs dictate how just about every traffic based business is run.

Classic example: ARS. Hun banned them...they had to come up with a console free alternative. Granted its at a lesser pay, but still the TGP told them what they can and cannot do.

RMG · 10-30-2002, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by awu
The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites.

The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king

LOL i bet people will be lookign out for you now...nice job.

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

I'm sure TGPs would like to know about the galleries you submit so they can yank them from their archives.

Once that baby hits a SE TGP's can kiss my ass

redshift · 10-30-2002, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RMG
Hmm...this isnt what I had intended at all with this thread heh. Interesting discussion none the less.

I was talking about how TGPs dictate how just about every traffic based business is run.

Classic example: ARS. Hun banned them...they had to come up with a console free alternative. Granted its at a lesser pay, but still the TGP told them what they can and cannot do.

the point is here that there is money to be made with "some" tgp's

kevinl · 10-30-2002, 01:03 AM

After trying to figure out how to maximize my profit from site building I did the following:

I got three accounts with a leading recurring sponsor. I used one account for avs. One for free sites. And for tgp galleries. I used three domains and tracked bandwidth used for each type of site. I did this for six months.

After six months of getting killed tgping I cut way back on regular submissions and used a per sign up sponsor on those galleries.

I am now seperating link lists using seperate accounts for big linklists and little link lists(primarily those with good search engine positions for specific niches). Early results show I will be using a per sign up sponsor on the big linklists. They dont have particularly good traffic but bandwidth is much lower compared to big tgps.

I may try breaking down avs and see how that goes. Although on my own paysites all avs traffic seems to be much, much better than tgp or linklist traffic.

I think you should build for maximum long term profit. I dont worry about getting the most hits only the most money.

redshift · 10-30-2002, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinl

I think you should build for maximum long term profit. I dont worry about getting the most hits only the most money.

AMEN brotha

Incognito · 10-30-2002, 01:15 AM

Eh people.

Go to thehun.net
Look at the payed ads. Then find me a single NORMAL hardcore porn sponsor there.

I find whatever but not normal porn. Club 17 or Most Erotic teens or Dogfart/MaxHardcore content, whatever but You wont find cybererotica.com there any more would You?

You're beating dead horse arent You?
You keep eating an old excuse that "make content better and they will come".
In other words "make bagbus and they will come" - only it's not right. You're not supposed to be faced with such a choice.

Most people DONT come looking for extreme porn or strange porn. Do You really think that 99% of porn viewers need bestiality, 18 y.o teens, forced sex and stuff like that?

Most people find it good enough to jerk just on some nice lady fucking some nice guy.
But the problem is that they dont have to pay for it any longer.
Funny part is that someone PAYED to shoot that guy and lady fucking and that someone who payed to create that porno - is fucked now.

Well I guess You know my point of view anyway by now.

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognito
Eh people.
Most people find it good enough to jerk just on some nice lady fucking some nice guy.
But the problem is that they dont have to pay for it any longer.
Funny part is that someone PAYED to shoot that guy and lady fucking and that someone who payed to create that porno - is fucked now.

Well I guess You know my point of view anyway by now.

why would the person who paid to shoot the straight hardcore content be fucked? Gallery people (like me) buy licenced content like that all the time for TGPs. They end up selling more in many cases. Use your fucking brain and just sell something else, if you have someone's attention you can sell something. Read a playboy, it's full of ads for cigerettes, stereos, cars, booze, etc. they sell ADS. You don't have to only sell porn, the only reason you think this is cause you're just having a major brain fart on this issue.

i just loaded thehun - I saw penis enlargement, viagra, (legal age) teen movie, webcams, a dating service, a sextoy store, and other stuff. you don't have to sell pics and advertisers know that.

m0rph3us · 10-30-2002, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinl
After trying to figure out how to maximize my profit from site building I did the following:

I got three accounts with a leading recurring sponsor. I used one account for avs. One for free sites. And for tgp galleries. I used three domains and tracked bandwidth used for each type of site. I did this for six months.

After six months of getting killed tgping I cut way back on regular submissions and used a per sign up sponsor on those galleries.

I am now seperating link lists using seperate accounts for big linklists and little link lists(primarily those with good search engine positions for specific niches). Early results show I will be using a per sign up sponsor on the big linklists. They dont have particularly good traffic but bandwidth is much lower compared to big tgps.

I may try breaking down avs and see how that goes. Although on my own paysites all avs traffic seems to be much, much better than tgp or linklist traffic.

I think you should build for maximum long term profit. I dont worry about getting the most hits only the most money.

Right on! Can you please contact me on ICQ (#91603384)

Amputate Your Head · 10-30-2002, 01:22 AM

too much free porn.

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
too much free porn.

not enough free porn

Incognito · 10-30-2002, 01:29 AM

Oh, yes , since You were interested with stats.

I run extreme sites, forced sex fantasy, that's why I keep staying incognito here so to say.

One of 5 largest TGPs out there , I wont disclose which one, used to work , or still works, with us.
Of course they bring good money and earn good money.

But nowhere close to what real good toplist operators in the same niche as ours do.

A toplist owner with 10 times less traffic than a TGP still earns about 3-5 times more than TGPs.

Also, in case You're interested, high trials (like 9$ per three days or even 11$ per three days) is the way to go.

We started using them back in 99 I think.
And it's been great. Because with high trials surfer thinks that Your site:
a) different than others
b) BETTER than others and therefore a lot of them just by seeing higher price on trial buys month membership straight away.

I have recommended this to a lot of paysite operators , in various including totally MAINSTREAM PORN niches and it always works great. So if You havent experimented with this - try it.

My niche is by the way one of the reasons why I dislike TGPs so much. You see, my idea is that any GOOD porn should sell.
Problem is - it just isnt so.

I've experimented and invested quite a lot - almost in vain. Surfers just dont want to pay for good normal porn.
And that is why I dont see why I should quit my niche, why should I ? I dont break any laws when TGPs break a lot of them (really , just think about copyright laws) so I wont work with normal mainstream porn as long as it means assuming bend over position and working for pennies thanks to TGPs untill either I am forced to or there's another way.

You see, it's not a problem to make money with TGP. Of course You do make some. Question is - how much for what You do.

OnTime · 10-30-2002, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognito
Oh, yes , since You were interested with stats.

I run extreme sites, forced sex fantasy, that's why I keep staying incognito here so to say.

One of 5 largest TGPs out there , I wont disclose which one, used to work , or still works, with us.
Of course they bring good money and earn good money.

But nowhere close to what real good toplist operators in the same niche as ours do.

A toplist owner with 10 times less traffic than a TGP still earns about 3-5 times more than TGPs.

Also, in case You're interested, high trials (like 9$ per three days or even 11$ per three days) is the way to go.

We started using them back in 99 I think.
And it's been great. Because with high trials surfer thinks that Your site:
a) different than others
b) BETTER than others and therefore a lot of them just by seeing higher price on trial buys month membership straight away.

I have recommended this to a lot of paysite operators , in various including totally MAINSTREAM PORN niches and it always works great. So if You havent experimented with this - try it.

My niche is by the way one of the reasons why I dislike TGPs so much. You see, my idea is that any GOOD porn should sell.
Problem is - it just isnt so.

I've experimented and invested quite a lot - almost in vain. Surfers just dont want to pay for good normal porn.
And that is why I dont see why I should quit my niche, why should I ? I dont break any laws when TGPs break a lot of them (really , just think about copyright laws) so I wont work with normal mainstream porn as long as it means assuming bend over position and working for pennies thanks to TGPs untill either I am forced to or there's another way.

You see, it's not a problem to make money with TGP. Of course You do make some. Question is - how much for what You do.

Blah, Blah. Let's seem some stats

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 01:35 AM

fucking coward russian won't address my post

Incognito · 10-30-2002, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream

why would the person who paid to shoot the straight hardcore content be fucked? Gallery people (like me) buy licenced content like that all the time for TGPs. They end up selling more in many cases. Use your fucking brain and just sell something else, if you have someone's attention you can sell something. Read a playboy, it's full of ads for cigerettes, stereos, cars, booze, etc. they sell ADS. You don't have to only sell porn, the only reason you think this is cause you're just having a major brain fart on this issue.

i just loaded thehun - I saw penis enlargement, viagra, (legal age) teen movie, webcams, a dating service, a sextoy store, and other stuff. you don't have to sell pics and advertisers know that.

Sleazy, You problem is that You dont have a clue.
Honestly.

But lets keep our mutual disliking and insultings in the other thread.

Or we'll fuck this one, which has started so good.

What You say is just the SAME what I do. You cant sell mainstream porn content from the TGP right?

So what You say is "dont sell mainstream porno from a TGP since You cant - sell something else"
What I say is "it's wrong that You are not able to sell mainstream porn" I dont say what You should do - I dont care.

I just say that TGPs hurt mainstream porn a lot and that's all.

As for what You do, selling AFF ( by the way they wanted to promote us once beleive it or not, it was a good laugh on both ends) I think it's lame, why? Because how much You make?
I understand it's enough for You, but try to understand that MAY BE You have not evaluated Your time right, may be , just think for one second, if not for TGP You'd be making 10 times more because normally PORN should sell BEST.
Unless it's offered for free.

Hope You see my point.

Do You remember an FTC scandal when they frozen MaxCash money? Do You remember the summ? 37 millions $ if I remember right and correct me if I'm wrong.
Do You understand that in mainstream normal porn like MaxCash for example, no one is even close to those amounts nowdays anymore? And guess why, cause people dont pay for usual good porn any longer.

You thought I envy Hun. I didnt. I envy those 37 millions.
And You should too.

Incognito · 10-30-2002, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnTime

Blah, Blah. Let's seem some stats

what stats would You like?

SleazyDream · 10-30-2002, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognito

Sleazy, You problem is that You dont have a clue.
Honestly.

But lets keep our mutual disliking and insultings in the other thread. Or we'll fuck this one, which has started so good.

What You say is just the SAME what I do. You cant sell mainstream porn content from the TGP right?

So what You say is "dont sell mainstream porno from a TGP since You cant - sell something else"
What I say is "it's wrong that You are not able to sell mainstream porn" I dont say what You should do - I dont care.

I just say that TGPs hurt mainstream porn a lot and that's all.

As for what You do, selling AFF ( by the way they wanted to promote us once beleive it or not, it was a good laugh on both ends) I think it's lame, why? Because how much You make?
I understand it's enough for You, but try to understand that MAY BE You have not evaluated Your time right, may be , just think for one second, if not for TGP You'd be making 10 times more because normally PORN should sell BEST.
Unless it's offered for free.

Hope You see my point.

Do You remember an FTC scandal when they frozen MaxCash money? Do You remember the summ? 37 millions $ if I remember right and correct me if I'm wrong.
Do You understand that in mainstream normal porn like MaxCash for example, no one is even close to those amounts nowdays anymore? And guess why, cause people dont pay for usual good porn any longer.

You thought I envy Hun. I didnt. I envy those 37 millions.
And You should too.

a. you have no idea what I make so You're talking out of your ass there. You're just making pie in the sky assumptions.

b. your OBSESSION on selling porn shows your own stupidity

c, 37 million is POCKET change for a site like friend finder. they have in excess of 160 full time employees in their offices alone and are more profitable than MOST porn sites.

d. maxcash had more people in TGP than anything else selling their stuff duuuu

e. if porn should sell best then why do playboys (and old ones too) have next to no porn ads in them?? duuuuuu

f. who gives a fuck it you think it's wrong that you can't sell porn?

10-29-2002, 08:37 PM	#1
RMG Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 542	TGPs - The owner of the biz Some posts on another message board sparked some thoughts in me. More now than ever we are seeing tgp's spring up left and right...no big deal. Now more than ever SPONSORS are seemingly forced into TGP based business models and some seem to be losing and dying out. A rather large sponsor has stated that they no longer are able to obtain substantial profits from their recurring memberships. My response (as well as many others) was that the members area's simply lacked. The sponsors response was that the surfers are now more educated than ever on the "system" and are abusing it left and right. Add that to the fact that probably 80% of their affiliates generate traffic by means of TGPs and you have a real problem. Almost any and every sponsor out now has free hosted galleries and things of that nature. Which is good for the TGP owners as its a win/win situation...free content and revenue generation. But I see this as caving into the realm of "free porn for all". It also shows that smaller/medium size TGPs are having trouble generating revenue from past methods and are in turn teaching the surfers that you don't have to pay for porn. The effect of this has caused an interesting side affect....surfers are savvy enough to purchase 3 day trials...cancel and simply signup again at a later date for 2.99 or whatever the trial price is. Things seem to be getting worse rather than better for the TGP model.....any ideas, comments, suggestions anyone?

10-29-2002, 08:46 PM	#3
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	There are plenty of sites that don't have trials and they make many thousands and thousands of profits. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-29-2002, 09:16 PM	#4
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	I'm 100% serious, every "megaSite" I've joined from a large sponsor was under par. They have too much generic porn and not enough niche content. I'm not sure if that is the case with your friend, but I bet it is. His niche content is likely smaller then the niche listings on a TGP. __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

10-29-2002, 09:30 PM	#6
Backov Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cat Detector Van Posts: 1,600	Well, we don't have trials (trials suck ass - they do nothing but harm as far as I'm concerned. There's very good reasons programs like them, and those reasons are easy enough to enumerate.) We also have hosted galleries - however, and here is the caveat - they're not templated "clean" crap.. They're aggressive as hell. Too aggressive for some - our latest galleries were rejected from paid listings on the hun, they were just too aggressive. They work for us, but you wouldn't want to make the freeloading scum, erm, surfer click on anything that isn't free porn, right Patrick? Anyway, that's another beef. I think that the problem with a lot of hosted galleries is that they are just straight up filler crap - the guys came up with one or two templates and cranked out hundreds of them in the hopes that if you throw enough traffic at it, maybe one or two will convert. That's not the way - it just adds to the problem as you pointed out - more free porn. You can bet when an aggressive strategy with DRM and Video becomes possible, we'll be there too. We're already doing some stuff in that area. As for paysites sucking - yes, most big program paysites suck complete and utter ass. You can tell a program is shaving/heavily/upselling/something when you look at their sites and they suck so horrendously you couldn't imagine them retaining even a month. Great example - ARS. I can't imagine how they can pay $35 a signup. Oh, wait a minute, I can. ;> Anyway, don't despair. The people that give it all away for free are hurting themselves more than the people who actually sell it. ;> Cheers, Backov __________________ <embed src="http://banners.spotbrokers.com/button.swf" FlashVars="clickURL=http://banners.spotbrokers.com" quality=high pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="120" height="60"></embed>

10-29-2002, 09:37 PM	#7
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	stop offering trials if they aren't profitable. Maybe some of those 39.95 shit sites should realize that in fact they aren't worth 39.95 since their recur is 1.4 months average. __________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-29-2002, 08:38 PM	#2
RMG Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 542	Also...any feedback from paysite owners on the productivity of TGP traffic to their site VS tgp traffic to an affiliate site would be great.

10-29-2002, 09:44 PM	#8
andrew1009 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 801	Keep the trials, but charge for for them. Instead of $2.95, charge $5.95-$7.95.

10-29-2002, 09:47 PM	#10
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Trials suck. The only reason to offer a trial is so you can advertise a 3 day trial for $2.95, then hide some retarded clause in your TOS's which says if you don't cancel your 3 day trial within 48 hours, you will be rebilled at the low monthly rate of $39.95. Most of the big per signup sponsors are doing something similar to that. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

10-29-2002, 09:59 PM	#12
Prophet Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 25	ive looked at the big tgps and alot of it IS the same thing over and over agian...it seems only the fetish related sites are getting daily original content. What it means is that to break the cycle of surfers maybe everyone needs to pull together into a new standard this includes the TGPS and the personal sites working together to send traffic and fresh updated content,then you will see an increase in $$$ being spent Another thing to do is to cut down on the amnt of free content and on the trail memberships all together... Just a thought.But why not generate money for everyone instead of fighting over whos gonna get all the hits? just my 2cents on this from someone coming from the "other side" of the fence into all of your people's playing field. __________________ Amateur BBW Traffic! Http://www.DeniceCam.com

10-29-2002, 10:32 PM	#13
Steve Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,894	Watch TGPs - in one year, you will either be seeing all sponsor hosted galleries (cutting out the middle man), TGP owner galleries, or paid submits. This is quickly devolving into the TGP2 problem - soon only site onwers will be getting the traffic from these sites.

10-29-2002, 10:39 PM	#14
.:Frog:. Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ~ C A N A D A ~ Posts: 2,123	I made a TGP (now removed) that was using 100% sponsor hosted galleries. It didn't convert well or generate bookmarks. __________________ <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a> Tons of Hosted Galleries.

10-29-2002, 10:54 PM	#15
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	many EXTREMELY successful business that make money in the TGP marketplace don't have trials. example - Adult Friend Finder, Legondary Lars's CumTV and everyone's favorite GFY guy Quiet are some examples off the top of my head........... __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

10-29-2002, 11:14 PM	#16
redshift Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: anus fuckin' yo mama Posts: 1,044	If the goverenment would go ahead and outlaw free porn then all of us would make a shit pot full of money All the TGP's go away all the Free sites go away etc... if Mr. horny surfer wants to jack off then he must pay to play

10-29-2002, 11:17 PM	#17
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Steve-- I agree. Small generic TGPs that are run "for profit" aren't going to make it much longer. And larger TGPs aren't giving the gallery maker much room to earn a living, as they are trying to maximize surfer welfare and not their pocket book. If TGPs start relying on programs to give hosted galleries, well hosted galleries are going to be more and more aggressive ;) That will be good for all ;) __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

10-29-2002, 11:58 PM	#20
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Hmm. I wonder what will come after TGPs. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

10-30-2002, 12:05 AM	#22
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	Like Sleazy said, I've seen several galleries from quiet... they're obviously still working. __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

10-30-2002, 12:06 AM	#23
Hustlin Entertainment So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nassau,Bahamas Posts: 2,326

10-30-2002, 12:07 AM	#24
Choder Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 446	What about something like $15 for the first month and $40 for each month after that? I think that would work well. __________________ Make money with your exit/404 traffic - hit up ICQ 26910698 <br> "My eyes! The goggles do nothing!"

10-30-2002, 12:10 AM	#26
redshift Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: anus fuckin' yo mama Posts: 1,044	I think if a paysite is going to offer a trail it should be done either like CFF does it where the trial does now get access to the full site or the customer can only join via trial only once every two months

10-30-2002, 12:26 AM	#30
awu Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 228	The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites. The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king

10-30-2002, 12:37 AM	#33
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	tgps could just charge 10 cents a month if they wanted to __________________ I host with Vacares

10-30-2002, 12:39 AM	#34
RMG Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 542	Hmm...this isnt what I had intended at all with this thread heh. Interesting discussion none the less. I was talking about how TGPs dictate how just about every traffic based business is run. Classic example: ARS. Hun banned them...they had to come up with a console free alternative. Granted its at a lesser pay, but still the TGP told them what they can and cannot do.

10-30-2002, 01:03 AM	#38
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	After trying to figure out how to maximize my profit from site building I did the following: I got three accounts with a leading recurring sponsor. I used one account for avs. One for free sites. And for tgp galleries. I used three domains and tracked bandwidth used for each type of site. I did this for six months. After six months of getting killed tgping I cut way back on regular submissions and used a per sign up sponsor on those galleries. I am now seperating link lists using seperate accounts for big linklists and little link lists(primarily those with good search engine positions for specific niches). Early results show I will be using a per sign up sponsor on the big linklists. They dont have particularly good traffic but bandwidth is much lower compared to big tgps. I may try breaking down avs and see how that goes. Although on my own paysites all avs traffic seems to be much, much better than tgp or linklist traffic. I think you should build for maximum long term profit. I dont worry about getting the most hits only the most money. __________________ kevinl

10-30-2002, 01:15 AM	#40
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	Eh people. Go to thehun.net Look at the payed ads. Then find me a single NORMAL hardcore porn sponsor there. I find whatever but not normal porn. Club 17 or Most Erotic teens or Dogfart/MaxHardcore content, whatever but You wont find cybererotica.com there any more would You? You're beating dead horse arent You? You keep eating an old excuse that "make content better and they will come". In other words "make bagbus and they will come" - only it's not right. You're not supposed to be faced with such a choice. Most people DONT come looking for extreme porn or strange porn. Do You really think that 99% of porn viewers need bestiality, 18 y.o teens, forced sex and stuff like that? Most people find it good enough to jerk just on some nice lady fucking some nice guy. But the problem is that they dont have to pay for it any longer. Funny part is that someone PAYED to shoot that guy and lady fucking and that someone who payed to create that porno - is fucked now. Well I guess You know my point of view anyway by now. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

10-30-2002, 01:22 AM	#43
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	too much free porn. __________________ SIG TOO BIG

10-30-2002, 01:29 AM	#45
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	Oh, yes , since You were interested with stats. I run extreme sites, forced sex fantasy, that's why I keep staying incognito here so to say. One of 5 largest TGPs out there , I wont disclose which one, used to work , or still works, with us. Of course they bring good money and earn good money. But nowhere close to what real good toplist operators in the same niche as ours do. A toplist owner with 10 times less traffic than a TGP still earns about 3-5 times more than TGPs. Also, in case You're interested, high trials (like 9$ per three days or even 11$ per three days) is the way to go. We started using them back in 99 I think. And it's been great. Because with high trials surfer thinks that Your site: a) different than others b) BETTER than others and therefore a lot of them just by seeing higher price on trial buys month membership straight away. I have recommended this to a lot of paysite operators , in various including totally MAINSTREAM PORN niches and it always works great. So if You havent experimented with this - try it. My niche is by the way one of the reasons why I dislike TGPs so much. You see, my idea is that any GOOD porn should sell. Problem is - it just isnt so. I've experimented and invested quite a lot - almost in vain. Surfers just dont want to pay for good normal porn. And that is why I dont see why I should quit my niche, why should I ? I dont break any laws when TGPs break a lot of them (really , just think about copyright laws) so I wont work with normal mainstream porn as long as it means assuming bend over position and working for pennies thanks to TGPs untill either I am forced to or there's another way. You see, it's not a problem to make money with TGP. Of course You do make some. Question is - how much for what You do. __________________ -=almost fucking incognito=-

10-30-2002, 01:35 AM	#47
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	fucking coward russian won't address my post __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.