TGPs - The owner of the biz
 

Some posts on another message board sparked some thoughts in me. More now than ever we are seeing tgp's spring up left and right...no big deal. Now more than ever SPONSORS are seemingly forced into TGP based business models and some seem to be losing and dying out. A rather large sponsor has stated that they no longer are able to obtain substantial profits from their recurring memberships. My response (as well as many others) was that the members area's simply lacked. The sponsors response was that the surfers are now more educated than ever on the "system" and are abusing it left and right. Add that to the fact that probably 80% of their affiliates generate traffic by means of TGPs and you have a real problem.

Almost any and every sponsor out now has free hosted galleries and things of that nature. Which is good for the TGP owners as its a win/win situation...free content and revenue generation. But I see this as caving into the realm of "free porn for all". It also shows that smaller/medium size TGPs are having trouble generating revenue from past methods and are in turn teaching the surfers that you don't have to pay for porn.

The effect of this has caused an interesting side affect....surfers are savvy enough to purchase 3 day trials...cancel and simply signup again at a later date for 2.99 or whatever the trial price is.

Things seem to be getting worse rather than better for the TGP model.....any ideas, comments, suggestions anyone?

Also...any feedback from paysite owners on the productivity of TGP traffic to their site VS tgp traffic to an affiliate site would be great.

There are plenty of sites that don't have trials and they make many thousands and thousands of profits.

I'm 100% serious, every "megaSite" I've joined from a large sponsor was under par. They have too much generic porn and not enough niche content.

I'm not sure if that is the case with your friend, but I bet it is. His niche content is likely smaller then the niche listings on a TGP.

Who said that?

Well, we don't have trials (trials suck ass - they do nothing but harm as far as I'm concerned. There's very good reasons programs like them, and those reasons are easy enough to enumerate.)

We also have hosted galleries - however, and here is the caveat - they're not templated "clean" crap.. They're aggressive as hell. Too aggressive for some - our latest galleries were rejected from paid listings on the hun, they were just too aggressive. They work for us, but you wouldn't want to make the freeloading scum, erm, surfer click on anything that isn't free porn, right Patrick?

Anyway, that's another beef.

I think that the problem with a lot of hosted galleries is that they are just straight up filler crap - the guys came up with one or two templates and cranked out hundreds of them in the hopes that if you throw enough traffic at it, maybe one or two will convert. That's not the way - it just adds to the problem as you pointed out - more free porn.

You can bet when an aggressive strategy with DRM and Video becomes possible, we'll be there too. We're already doing some stuff in that area.

As for paysites sucking - yes, most big program paysites suck complete and utter ass. You can tell a program is shaving/heavily/upselling/something when you look at their sites and they suck so horrendously you couldn't imagine them retaining even a month. Great example - ARS. I can't imagine how they can pay $35 a signup. Oh, wait a minute, I can. ;>

Anyway, don't despair. The people that give it all away for free are hurting themselves more than the people who actually sell it. ;>

Cheers,
Backov

stop offering trials if they aren't profitable. Maybe some of those 39.95 shit sites should realize that in fact they aren't worth 39.95 since their recur is 1.4 months average.

Keep the trials, but charge for for them. Instead of $2.95, charge $5.95-$7.95.

i agree. hosted galleries are for self made TGP's and some people dont seem to realize that. You cannot realistically hope to make sales off of submitting galleries that every surfer has seen hundreds of times...some programs actually have great gallery makers whos galleries arent over agressive and really have a "homemade feel". Keep tweaking your traffic and text links and see what works for you..

Trials suck. :) The only reason to offer a trial is so you can advertise a 3 day trial for $2.95, then hide some retarded clause in your TOS's which says if you don't cancel your 3 day trial within 48 hours, you will be rebilled at the low monthly rate of $39.95.

Most of the big per signup sponsors are doing something similar to that.

or 9.95:winkwink:

ive looked at the big tgps and alot of it IS the same thing over and over agian...it seems only the fetish related sites are getting daily original content.

What it means is that to break the cycle of surfers maybe everyone needs to pull together into a new standard this includes the TGPS and the personal sites working together to send traffic and fresh updated content,then you will see an increase in $$$ being spent


Another thing to do is to cut down on the amnt of free content and on the trail memberships all together...

Just a thought.But why not generate money for everyone instead of fighting over whos gonna get all the hits?


just my 2cents on this from someone coming from the "other side" of the fence into all of your people's playing field.

Watch TGPs - in one year, you will either be seeing all sponsor hosted galleries (cutting out the middle man), TGP owner galleries, or paid submits.

This is quickly devolving into the TGP2 problem - soon only site onwers will be getting the traffic from these sites.

I made a TGP (now removed) that was using 100% sponsor hosted galleries.
It didn't convert well or generate bookmarks.

many EXTREMELY successful business that make money in the TGP marketplace don't have trials.


example - Adult Friend Finder, Legondary Lars's CumTV and everyone's favorite GFY guy Quiet are some examples off the top of my head...........

If the goverenment would go ahead and outlaw free porn then all of us would make a shit pot full of money

All the TGP's go away all the Free sites go away etc...

if Mr. horny surfer wants to jack off then he must pay to play

Steve--
I agree.

Small generic TGPs that are run "for profit" aren't going to make it much longer. And larger TGPs aren't giving the gallery maker much room to earn a living, as they are trying to maximize surfer welfare and not their pocket book.

If TGPs start relying on programs to give hosted galleries, well hosted galleries are going to be more and more aggressive ;)

That will be good for all ;)

instead the gov't is going to play evil games with VISA and shut down all the paysites hahahahahahahahahahahahaha


free porn forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe - Maybe Not
Personally I don?t think the Gov't has anything to do with the VISA shit - It all has to do with crooked webmasters screwing customers over and VISA responding.

The "online" porn business is the only place I've seen the attitude that the customer is someone to fuck over instead of someone to take care of so that they will be happy and spend more money.

shit like "3 DAY FREE TRIAL" - yea it's free alright until you read the fine print and they get charged for 5 more sites at 30 bucks a pop or more

I just don't understand the mentality


just my :2 cents:

Hmm. I wonder what will come after TGPs.

TGP's behind AVS prolly

Like Sleazy said, I've seen several galleries from quiet... they're obviously still working.

:thumbsup

What about something like $15 for the first month and $40 for each month after that? I think that would work well.

why not just charge people what you SAY your are going to charge them??????????? honesty usually does better for a long term business model.

I think if a paysite is going to offer a trail it should be done either like CFF does it where the trial does now get access to the full site or the customer can only join via trial only once every two months

Honesty in the online porn business - damn what a novel idea

many that have been upfront about it have made fortunes AND can sleep at night.

see thats my problem - If I was dishonest I could have retired by now(not in porn but my brick and morter)

just can't do it - just cant

The only reason we submit to TGP's is for the sake of the search engines. We have found that after a month of submitting we have about 45 listed with Search engines. After 3 months we then convert those lsitings to tour pages to our pay sites.

The biggest problem I think pay sites have are these plugins that they lease. So many pay sites now have the same content and they wonder why the members cancel. IMHO exclusive content is still king :thumbsup

Quit telling the secrets:feels-hot

I'm sure TGPs would like to know about the galleries you submit so they can yank them from their archives.

tgps could just charge 10 cents a month if they wanted to

Hmm...this isnt what I had intended at all with this thread heh. Interesting discussion none the less.

I was talking about how TGPs dictate how just about every traffic based business is run.

Classic example: ARS. Hun banned them...they had to come up with a console free alternative. Granted its at a lesser pay, but still the TGP told them what they can and cannot do.

LOL i bet people will be lookign out for you now...nice job. :thumbsup

Once that baby hits a SE TGP's can kiss my ass

the point is here that there is money to be made with "some" tgp's

After trying to figure out how to maximize my profit from site building I did the following:

I got three accounts with a leading recurring sponsor. I used one account for avs. One for free sites. And for tgp galleries. I used three domains and tracked bandwidth used for each type of site. I did this for six months.

After six months of getting killed tgping I cut way back on regular submissions and used a per sign up sponsor on those galleries.

I am now seperating link lists using seperate accounts for big linklists and little link lists(primarily those with good search engine positions for specific niches). Early results show I will be using a per sign up sponsor on the big linklists. They dont have particularly good traffic but bandwidth is much lower compared to big tgps.

I may try breaking down avs and see how that goes. Although on my own paysites all avs traffic seems to be much, much better than tgp or linklist traffic.

I think you should build for maximum long term profit. I dont worry about getting the most hits only the most money.

AMEN brotha

Eh people.

Go to thehun.net
Look at the payed ads. Then find me a single NORMAL hardcore porn sponsor there.

I find whatever but not normal porn. Club 17 or Most Erotic teens or Dogfart/MaxHardcore content, whatever but You wont find cybererotica.com there any more would You?

You're beating dead horse arent You?
You keep eating an old excuse that "make content better and they will come".
In other words "make bagbus and they will come" - only it's not right. You're not supposed to be faced with such a choice.

Most people DONT come looking for extreme porn or strange porn. Do You really think that 99% of porn viewers need bestiality, 18 y.o teens, forced sex and stuff like that?

Most people find it good enough to jerk just on some nice lady fucking some nice guy.
But the problem is that they dont have to pay for it any longer.
Funny part is that someone PAYED to shoot that guy and lady fucking and that someone who payed to create that porno - is fucked now.

Well I guess You know my point of view anyway by now.

:winkwink:

why would the person who paid to shoot the straight hardcore content be fucked? Gallery people (like me) buy licenced content like that all the time for TGPs. They end up selling more in many cases. Use your fucking brain and just sell something else, if you have someone's attention you can sell something. Read a playboy, it's full of ads for cigerettes, stereos, cars, booze, etc. they sell ADS. You don't have to only sell porn, the only reason you think this is cause you're just having a major brain fart on this issue.


i just loaded thehun - I saw penis enlargement, viagra, (legal age) teen movie, webcams, a dating service, a sextoy store, and other stuff. you don't have to sell pics and advertisers know that.

Right on! Can you please contact me on ICQ (#91603384)

too much free porn.

not enough free porn

Oh, yes , since You were interested with stats.

I run extreme sites, forced sex fantasy, that's why I keep staying incognito here so to say.

One of 5 largest TGPs out there , I wont disclose which one, used to work , or still works, with us.
Of course they bring good money and earn good money.

But nowhere close to what real good toplist operators in the same niche as ours do.

A toplist owner with 10 times less traffic than a TGP still earns about 3-5 times more than TGPs.

Also, in case You're interested, high trials (like 9$ per three days or even 11$ per three days) is the way to go.

We started using them back in 99 I think.
And it's been great. Because with high trials surfer thinks that Your site:
a) different than others
b) BETTER than others and therefore a lot of them just by seeing higher price on trial buys month membership straight away.

I have recommended this to a lot of paysite operators , in various including totally MAINSTREAM PORN niches and it always works great. So if You havent experimented with this - try it.

My niche is by the way one of the reasons why I dislike TGPs so much. You see, my idea is that any GOOD porn should sell.
Problem is - it just isnt so.

I've experimented and invested quite a lot - almost in vain. Surfers just dont want to pay for good normal porn.
And that is why I dont see why I should quit my niche, why should I ? I dont break any laws when TGPs break a lot of them (really , just think about copyright laws) so I wont work with normal mainstream porn as long as it means assuming bend over position and working for pennies thanks to TGPs untill either I am forced to or there's another way.

You see, it's not a problem to make money with TGP. Of course You do make some. Question is - how much for what You do.

Blah, Blah. Let's seem some stats :)

fucking coward russian won't address my post

Sleazy, You problem is that You dont have a clue.
Honestly.

But lets keep our mutual disliking and insultings in the other thread. :) Or we'll fuck this one, which has started so good.

What You say is just the SAME what I do. You cant sell mainstream porn content from the TGP right?

So what You say is "dont sell mainstream porno from a TGP since You cant - sell something else"
What I say is "it's wrong that You are not able to sell mainstream porn" I dont say what You should do - I dont care.

I just say that TGPs hurt mainstream porn a lot and that's all.

As for what You do, selling AFF ( by the way they wanted to promote us once beleive it or not, it was a good laugh on both ends) I think it's lame, why? Because how much You make?
I understand it's enough for You, but try to understand that MAY BE You have not evaluated Your time right, may be , just think for one second, if not for TGP You'd be making 10 times more because normally PORN should sell BEST.
Unless it's offered for free.

Hope You see my point.

Do You remember an FTC scandal when they frozen MaxCash money? Do You remember the summ? 37 millions $ if I remember right and correct me if I'm wrong.
Do You understand that in mainstream normal porn like MaxCash for example, no one is even close to those amounts nowdays anymore? And guess why, cause people dont pay for usual good porn any longer.

You thought I envy Hun. I didnt. I envy those 37 millions.
And You should too.

what stats would You like?

a. you have no idea what I make so You're talking out of your ass there. You're just making pie in the sky assumptions.

b. your OBSESSION on selling porn shows your own stupidity

c, 37 million is POCKET change for a site like friend finder. they have in excess of 160 full time employees in their offices alone and are more profitable than MOST porn sites.

d. maxcash had more people in TGP than anything else selling their stuff duuuu

e. if porn should sell best then why do playboys (and old ones too) have next to no porn ads in them?? duuuuuu

f. who gives a fuck it you think it's wrong that you can't sell porn?