I think alot of people will be disappointed after a while... The US is not a dictatorship - it still have a congress where most things are decided + there is no easy/quick fix for the major problems. Also from what I have seen then some voters have projected all kinds of things Obama will do, which is not even included in his politics or national/presidential issues.

Doesn´t mean I think McCain is the better choice - just that cynicism is a likely outcome if high expectations are not fulfilled.

I wrote a big ass reply that addressed each of your points, gfy ate it. I will just say that not only are you wrong I'm afraid you are quite dented in the head. :thumbsup

Too much glitz and glamour with no substance.

He claims he'd lower taxes for middle america, yet as senator he voted 94 times to raise taxes..

$150 billion to invest into alternative energy? That money has to come from somewhere.
Increase military spending? That money needs to come from somewhere.

He also outright lied.. He claims he would uphold the second amendment, yet his entire political career he's been 100% anti gun.

Also, keep in mind the potential of war with Iran. The US has slightly under 3 million combined armed forces while Iran has 12.5 million. Obama made it very clear that he wouldn't hesitate.

David, thank godness Obama is not a Reagan. If he was we would be trouble.

I already read your other posts and I am in awe. Your views are extreme and seems off of what the majority of this industry is all about, freedom from bureaucracy and a change in right wing policy.

I watched the speech tonight and I was happy and pretty impressed.
He was to the point and he addressed the main criticisms from the Republican party with a fair ease. He also addressed the main concerns of the American people in terms of social politics and made enough good points to hold up his candidacy as a true Presidential candidate and Commander in Chief. The Democratic party showed that we are all one and not a divided people just because of race. I think we should be proud of that fact.

His qualifications to become a President for the PEOPLE was clearly exhibited in the history of his LIFE as an American and should not be questioned. If you or anyone here on the board have a better qualification then please stand up (stay away AlienQ), and I truly believe that very few others in the senate have had a better grasp on what is really going on in the "regular" life of the American people than that of Obama at this point in time.

To be honest David, I think you are afraid of what happened today in the speech and that you want to do as much as you can to discredit what will evidently become one of the best speeches made by a Presidential candidate ever. Good luck in November.

To add to all this, I have some experience myself from being a mix between an American and someone from the EU (passports in both regions, and also spend a lot of time in both places) - MOST people from the EU are afraid of Bush and the Republican party. It is a fact and it is sad. If Obama wins I believe it will show the rest of the world that we (the USA) is not a bunch of idiots but someone that truly believe that change can be made with the right choice in the upcoming election.

My views are extreme because they do not align with your world view. You see the world from your perspective and all else is "extreme".

Afraid? Life goes on... regardless of who wins. Fear is for the weak. Ignorance of realities and blind worship of messiahs has caused more problems than spirited debate. I will assume you are embellishing your opinion of tonight's speech to prove a point. Surely you have read the great speeches of this nation since its founding... or read the simple writings of hick farmers in the Federalist Papers?

I too have spent considerable time outside of the US and I too hold EU citizenship (ouch - did not expect that one did you?). You are making gross generalizations about MOST people in Europe... or you choose to associate with people of the same mindset so it reinforces your own viewpoint... feedback loops. I could reverse your statement and say, "Most people I speak to in Europe agree with the viewpoints I hold"... We probably frequent different countries and associate with different people. Swings and Round-abouts my friend and generalizations are just that... generalizations.

We will agree to disagree.

PS. Read my comments in BOLD as I am too tired to figure out the quote part. Gnight and THANK GOD CHANGE WILL COME SOON. :winkwink:

Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay where not farmers.

yea, try a small site called YOUTUBE.com Have you heard of it?:2 cents:

No... Too Socialist for me ;) Italy. We have a history of right wing tendencies. I suppose your opinion could be that Evolution has not removed that segment of DNA I guess ;)

Heated discussed/debate is a good thing... Diplomacy should always be the first choice... not the choice of last resort. I think the large problem is you have not had a chance to share a 40oz or a fine magnum of champagne with me so your assumptions are overriding the reality of the situation. You might just find I am one of the most "extreme" freedom loving person you have met. To which I will accept the title of "extremist". The audacity of Liberty (big L) we will call it.

sar·casm Audio Help (sär'kāz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.



It should have been clear from "simple writings" + "hick farmers".

He has also voted in tax cuts and IRS changes.

150 billion over 10 years, not today. That comes from correcting Gov programs that are sucking all the money away and a war that is triple sucking it away, and taxing companies the right way. A conservative Gov view.

With guns, he has voted on gun limitations and bans, if you read them they are targeted around pushing for the States right to choose. He is fine with retired Police having concealed weapons, so he can't be totally anti-gun.

We won't be going to war with Iran or Russia. First, Iran it wouldn't be us doing it, it would be the United Nations. And we have no reason to attack Russia, we couldn't lie our way into Georgia if we tried.

Yeah, I saw the speech. Was a great one too. :thumbsup

he's a puppet

Again, look at my bold quotes above... Going to bed now :)

Do you believe in fairy tales too?

http://www.nraila.org/obama/
http://www.nraila.org/images/obamachange.jpg

everyone is a whore to something. everyone.


:2 cents:

I believe what I see he voted on, what the vote was for, and not the ideas of views of someone that thinks pictures make a point.

No pictures.


But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don?t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in ?Obama had greater role on liberal survey,? Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...1&vote =00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. ?Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.? Obama ?08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck...n_obamas_c.php)

7. ?Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,? Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. ?Obama and Gun Control,? The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. ?Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,? Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioio...n_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, ?Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,? February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/b..._on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: ?As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .? (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ur...aw-enforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

I will ignore the above comment. Do not arm yourself with the normal tactics are painting people bigots/racists/supremacists because of differing view points. Regardless, fine breed stock in Scandinavia... I can not deny that.

Spoken like a Republican (pre-Bush) Have you forgotten Ronald Reagan? I do not recall any bullets/nukes being fired at the Russians to end the cold war. Review the party of each president during every war of the 20th century... It is enlightening and should illustrate the "rebranding" and "white washing" (no pun intended) of history.


I will be sure to take my wire brush... as I might need a 'Silkwood Shower' to feel clean again ;)

Ugg... copy paste. BTW, I support half that shit.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. ? Do you need English interpretation skills?? He voted AGAINST the Justices who happen to support the right to bear arms.. Not BECAUSE they support the right to bear arms. More likely, he voted against them for another reason, likely they were pro-Life. That?s like saying ?You voted against a man who supports and believes in Christianity? You must be a devil worshiper!!?

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1 - Really?? To actually bankrupt the gun industry. Cigarette companies and Healthcare industries suffer from reckless lawsuits, and they are far from bankrupt. I will admit, if you are an NRA supporter this isn?t what you want.

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15 ? Was this the ban on assault weapons?? He might have voted for it while legislator for Southside Chicago.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3 ? Ban it where, on the streets of Chicago?? Within 500 yards of a school? Research people.

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9 ? If true, that?s high. But if the current Federal Excise tax is say $10, it?d be raised to only $50 on a gun. Smokers get taxed out the ass, would the net amount be higher or lower than cigarettes or booze?

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2 - Again probably in Chicago. But I admit I don?t believe an ouitright BAN should be legal. Surprised it held in DC all that time.

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4 See above.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5 Isn?t this the 3rd time in a row they mentioned the same thing.

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6 - We register cars, why not guns.

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. ? I have no idea what this means & don?t want to look it up.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7 ? Which kind, don?t you need permits & all to carry. Myb this law requested people don?t. Who knows.

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and ?research.?8 ? Boy, these people look like all out gun banning Nazi's...

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9 - Dude, I can drive up to the middle of Pennsylvania and be 20 miles away from a school. Plus, again, it was probably an attempted Chicago law he probably knew it?d get shot down but was hoping for a compromise, like 500 yards or something.

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10 - Maybe this was after a murder happened, police work to find out who nearby owns a .45 or whatever. They do that with cars you know, like when a Silver BMW hits & runs. If you get the first few letters of a license plate, they can sort thru all Silver BMW?s with those 2 letters throughout PA, then narrow it down by weeding out those who live out in Pittsburgh etc? and come down to only a few cars.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11 ? Maybe to reduce crime in Chicago.

I like the tax cut idea :-)

Actually that's not true. FactCheck.org is a pretty good site for looking up stuff.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2..._trickery.html

I know copy and pasting things from Republican or Democratic blogs are the cool thing to do, but I wish more people would get a mind of their own and come up with their own opinions on the candidates.

Obama is going to win. However, Obama is merely a suit and without a team of writers and teleprompters he's completely lost and has absolutely nothing to say. Ever see the guy get asked impromptu questions on key issues? If his answer hasn't already been written for him, he stutters, stammers, and can't come up with a decent reply of his own. Obama is a panderer. His whole campaign functions off of telling people what they want to hear so he'll get elected. Guess what? I can guarantee you that when he does get elected, absolutely nothing will change. And, if it does, it will probably be for the worse.

That being said, I truly hope I'm wrong. I hope the guy can actually deliver on the change he promises to bring us. I also think a black president will be good for our country for a magnitude of reasons.

It was a GOOD presentation, but I can't believe how many people are so easily wooed by a smooth talker. I was not moved at any time other than watching Stevie Wonder play.

That is the god damn truth right there. :2 cents:

I stayed up until 4am my time to watch it. I think he did a very solid job. I agree that it wasn't amazingly amazing but I think part of that was a calculation. While he wanted to be seen to be respecting the parallel with him and King, he didn't want to be seen to be trying to out do him.

I was going to vote for him anyway but it was nice to hear him speak to my ideals. Though, I don't know who makes up their minds about who to vote for on such speeches. Surely we all know this is the showbiz side of things but I guess some people need that.

I jerked on his speech!

I would like to qualify that in terms of I meant solely as a speaker. In simplest terms, as orators, both can/could give me a feeling of hope for our country.

And I do agree with him that we need change, and one hell of a lot of it.

Does he have a viable plan for giving it to us?

I don't know.

That is why I have not and will not decide anything until lots closer to election time. :)

It was an amazing speech. I just hope the swing states saw what I saw, as my vote really doesn't count in California. Speaking of - I'm thankful that spacedog lives in Alaska.... so vote for John McCain... who gives a fuck? Won't change a thing. Your 3 EVs are red anyway, so knock yourself out.

As usual, the right wingers here and all over the US will not give credit where credit is due. They will all keep claiming that Obama isn't experienced enough to be president.... blah blah blah. I think the only experience a president needs is the ability to run things in an organized fashion and have the intelligence to utilize the experience of the experts on the issues. It's very important that he choose competent people to help him run things... and he should be open to hearing opposing views.

I don't agree with every position that Obama takes but it is sure as hell alot more then I agree with McCain since he decided to toe the neocon line. What is funny to me is that he hated Romney during the primary and I predict (at 7:59AM EST) that he will pick Romney today to be his VP because he needs help in the west.

Spacedog has no credibility to argue against Obama because he is a proven racist... not long ago he was exposed for running a site called ni**erporn.com (or something like that) that had KKK symbols all over it. Furthermore... I don't think you have to worry about the 2nd amendment issues because they are not even close to being on top of the democrat agenda... things like health care are going to rule the agenda and there won't be time to even address that issue. The NRA has become a joke anyway because they are only a political tool of the right to control voters in the same sense that evangelicals are a tool. I don't support any limits on the 2nd amendment at all... just thought I should state that. I DO support putting people that use an assault weapon in any crime or felons who possess an assault weapon away for life but really... most shootings aren't done with assault weapons anyway.

The biggest reason I support Obama is because he isn't like McCain in the sense that he didn't come from a life of privilege... He is a self made man and I respect that more then anything else. McCain is just like Bush in the sense that his life would have been one of privilege no matter what... McCain can certainly relate with being a POW but he can't relate to being a single parent raising 2 kids on a shitty salary working in a bakery like my wife did. He certainly can't relate to struggling to work his way through college on a PELL grant while working as a cook at a restaurant or temp worker in a factory and having the restaurant/factory cut his hours so much that he loses his apartment and ends up homeless like I did. TWICE. He certainly can't relate to having his job shipped overseas and losing everything after working at the same plant for 25 years like my Dad did. He certainly can't relate to losing his house because of being "stop lossed" after the 4th tour in Iraq and 1 tour in Afghanistan while his wife was laid off back at home while trying to raise their new baby like my friend did. He can't relate to struggle in that sense and he certainly doesn't understand the essence of the American Dream because of it and now that I have attained the American Dream working as a webmaster in the porn industry... I am certainly not going to support the right wing who would LOVE to take that away from me.

I watched the speech on Fox News so I could hear the neocon line right away afterwards... and I wasn't disappointed... Greta was more then happy to spew her bullshit along with every single one of her guests until Midnight.

You guys are all fools-

Questions to Obama haters:

What's your other option? Another 4 years of Republicans? Wow, you really are smart! They have done SOOOOOOOOO much for you over the last 8 years. I mean, your country is in such a better position now than it was before W...NOT!

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

my 2 cents...

wow... that was the most intelligent post I read in the thread... umm... not

yes i did.

best line ever was about mccain not foloowing bin laden to the cave where he is let along "the gates of hell."

I am so tired of hearing republicans and mccain say how far they are willing to go to get Bin Laden, when it so obvious not true.

The best army on the planet cannot even find a single terrorist named Bin Laden, but mccain will chase hi to the fictitious place called hell. I think the army and america look like a joke the longer they are in iraq and never on the trail of thereal Bin laden. (i got family over there on 3-4 tours of iraq)

bring em home.

Great line Barack.

I here ya brother..
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ge/applaud.gif

I agree.

Great orator! He kept me connected to the TV, what a speech!

No "I agree" gif image this time?? :(

wow... I was wrong lol... Romney has been excluded from the VP pick along with Pawlenty.