No, Paul is dead nuts on the money with what he said. A lot of today's shot-for-internet porn is pure garbage quality with too much yapping going on on both sides of the camera, lame fake moaning, disinterested actors, and everything else he pointed out.

Some of us may have 10+ (or in Paul's case 30+) years of pouring through miles of porn from a webmaster's perspective, but not all of us have lost the ability to think like a surfer as well. :2 cents:

But I don't think all that crap porn is hurting the industry. I think it leaves the door wide open for those who have learned to shoot GREAT porn.

your 0:100 ratios are now 0:150 total per day, maybe that's why you don't understand yet :disgust

I really don't care what you lot of you think. Tube sites are hurting sales. To what degree nobody knows for sure. When I go out with my friends do you know what they say? "Why should I buy with all those tube sites?" Too much illegal content on those sites and its just too easy to get.

Good that you got my point!!! :)

I got the same comment when I went to south america, why pay if i can get for free!!!
And everybody it s doing the same!! Convertion are not good as used to be!!

you clearly didn't get mine LOL

your conclusion is based on a non existing primisis.

porn will be made no matter what!

I agree. It's a great deal harder to stop whining, get off your arse and do something about it.

gus is sooooooo right! We are our own enemy

to the guy i called a bottom feeder because he tossed out that 'adapt or die' axiom - calling you a bottom feeder was uncalled for but blaming this industry's problems on a lack of innovation and complacency is just PURE BULLSHIT when the MAJOR PROBLEM is sitting out there like a thousand pound gorilla - FREE CONTENT- STOLEN CONTENT propped up and supported largely by seamy mutherfuckers like the little greaseballs from Montreal that will go unnamed and AFF and CAMS.com etc- THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE PAYSITE MODEL - millions of surfers were signing up - there was innovation, hundreds and hundreds of paysites went up in every niche imaginable with EXCLUSIVE CONTENT paid for and created with hard work and major investment of webmasters - hundreds of DVD download sites with licensed content PAID FOR - customers receiving 4000 downloadable DVD's for 30 bucks a month, a great deal - then we went to entire NETWORKS with more EXCLUSIVE CONTENT than the most hard up monkey spanker could hope to download - BUT when all that exclusive content is available for FUCKING FREE there is NO WAY to ADAPT other than IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM and that's what I am seeing more and more every damn day - DON'T FUCKING FLATTER YOURSELVES you pieces of shit who are ADAPTING and NOT DYING - you aren't smart you aren't innovative - YOU ARE VERMIN.

First off, free porn, tube sites, illegal file sharing will never go away, thats a fact.

But people will still buy paysites so long as they sell personality as well as quality content.

Imagine your sitting in a strip club and you got this hot chick about to dance for you. Song comes on and she gets naked as fast as she can, squats down in front of you and flashes some vag. pretty cool right? so you throw her a dollar because you got some intense, immediate gratification for barely nothing.

Her set keeps going on and all she does is flash her vag and squeeze her boobs, never once looking at you and acting as if you're not there, just going through the motions. Gets pretty ordinary after a while huh? You still get to check out her hot body for barely nothing, still get the result of seeing all her goodies, but its just not as special as the first time.

Thats a tube site.

Now walk over to another stage and you see a girl who's just as hot but the second you sit down she makes eye contact with you, engages with you, and draws you into her routine. You still get to see her goodies, you still get the gratification, but now you feel like you're a part of the action, your desire fueling her intensity, sparking the beginning of your addiction to her.

This is what paysites need/should to be.

Thats just my :2 cents:

"Adapt or Die"

easy to say but, there is no business in the history of man that makes 'more' money by giving away, for free, more of their product than the consumer could ever want (and I mean this in the LONG-TERM, before any of you tools quip 'but i am making more money now').

I fully admit that 'some' of the people are making more money, but this is just a rape philosophy.

The people making money don't care about the smoking crater they leave behind, as long as they get theirs and get out

The people making the money on this business model don't care who they hurt and don't care if they completely destroy the industry, as long as they get theirs and get out.

The people making money on this business model don't care about stealing content (money) from others because they are going to make their money and get out.


The 'tube' phenomenon is not new or unique - its called 'loss leaders' in any retail business, it works - always has. But you boneheads don't realize that the true nature of the 'loss leader' is to break even or lose a few pennies on those items, and to only make a 'few' products available as loss leaders.

You don't give away the entire fucking stores inventory (plus the stuff you stole from next door) in the hopes that they buy your 'enhanced warranty' product. You will find that they only come for the free stuff after a while because they figure out that 'screw the warranty (upsell) product' cause I can just get more free stuff when I tire of the free stuff I already got. And pretty soon the retail store comes to the realization that they don't have the income to pay the rent anymore - they have LOTS of customers, but no one is opening their wallets.

I used to buy memberships... and I am fully computer savvy, for 30 years now - I could get free porn anytime but I showed my appreciation to the men and women who did the work by creating the exciting sites that catered to my fetishes, by opening my wallet.

Now.... I can get a site-rip download for ANY of the sites out there - ALL of your sites, without exception - every fucking one of them. And before you say 'no sir - not mine you can't '. I say to you, if not today, then tomorrow I can, and as soon as you get it 'taken down' someone else will put it back up.

you all seem to have no idea of the money that you are throwing away - ya ya go ahead and say 'thats garbage traffic and they wouldn't buy anyways'. Well, I laugh in your face - if only 5% of that garbage traffic opened their wallets, that equals many millions more in income. And if you shut off the 'free supply', lock it all up behind join pages, you would find that (I dare say) 50% of that 'garbage traffic' would open their wallets - and thats a gold mine worth mining. The same could be accomplished by agressivly attacking the sites that allow those uploads - with lawyers and 'other' means.

I could go on forever - but the attitude seems to be 'fuck it, lets rape the golden goose, I'll get mine now and fuck the industry and everyone else, and if anyone complains, You'll just quip 'Adapt or Die, cause I got mine'

Short sighted profit-taking while killing the source of the income is all that this is.

Short term Bro-Pimp-Ballers... long term losers.

but ya don't care... because you got yours...

I TOTALLY agree - except - I no longer have to pay for your paysite - just grab the site-rip for free.

again - your concept of what you say is ABSOLUTLY CORRECT - however - i don't have to pay for your great idea - I get that "feel like you're a part of the action, your desire fueling her intensity, sparking the beginning of your addiction to her." for free

get it?

Maybe, but didn't Titan just win a huge lawsuit against an overseas site that was stealing their content? That just happened this week. The end is coming for tubes and torrents. It was always just a question of time. Just like every other scam in this biz through the years. If any of you guys had been around 10 years ago you would have been screaming about the massive, never ending popups that would close your browser down that EVERY big player did. (CE, MC, ARS, etc.) Oh and then there were the installs. And the BIGGEST and most nastiest of all things: The dialer. Dialers make everything going on today look like the boyscouts. Every once in a while you hear people on here talking about old school guys who made tens of millions of dollars and retired? Dialers.
Oh and who could forget geo-redirecting?

And everytime, it was gonna be the end of this "industry" And everytime, each of those nightmares had a run and then became illegal. Then there is a short time of relative "peace". Until some smart guy with some technical knowledge comes up with the next thing for people to abuse lol

Relax guys. Ride this out. When it does run through it's cycle, make sure you're shit is good and strong and be ready to rock.

Theres a lot more to a Groobybucks sites than just the content in it :
Our members are part of a virtual community and is the the reason why we have such loyal customers and is why we broke CCBills 99-rebill limit.

Of course they are and teaching the whole next gen that paying for porn is stupid. But they wont admit that because then they would have to see in longterm this will hurt their business. That would mean they would have to take a stand against their friends and people they have been with bed with for a longtime. There are going to be alot of older people who once made a good living working at Starbucks. lol

A good product will always win out. Porn is way better than its ever been, but theres too much of the same thing.

People have been saying that for 10 years. And I bet 10 years from now, people will still be saying the same thing. Don't worry, life goes on.

True dat playa. Now do da macarena...

now wheres the fun in that?


BRAZZERS does not care how much people bitch and they could care less if people know what they do.

:2 cents:

CONGRESS MUST REPEAL AND REWRITE THE DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT! THAT IS THE ONLY WAY! THE THING WAS WRITTEN DURING AN ERA WHEN NONE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY WAS CONCEPTUALIZED BY LAWMAKERS THAT TODAY CAN BARELY STILL EVEN CHECK EMAIL.

Anyone need me to say it louder.

:1orglaugh

We need a good Lobbyist :thumbsup

Yo, welcome to the OC bitch! Congrats. I know you're gonna kick some ass </threadjack>

Yes, especially, the King's English.

Interesting to see how panicked everyone is going to be when over the next year the Alexa top 1000 is filled with tube sites that have proper license to display content and most all of those sites with the ripped content have gone legit.

Wishing and wanting all tube sites to go away is like praying to hit the lottery without buying a ticket. This is a repeat of the flip out over TGPs and MGPs from 2001. Instead of being so angry that you're not doing anything new at all, go build yourselves one or more legit tube sites. Everyone else is and sooner rather than later these will have the traffic, not to mention the retooled "used to be bad" tubes.

If you're a paysite owner focus on building a better paysite with better content. Quality sells, always has, always will. You don't have to build tube sites if your paysite is the shit and you're able to convert traffic - everyone needs that.

Cheers,

Brad

With my years of experience I have learned that we have to produce what the buyers want and not the surfers. There are way too many scenes shot today which 10 years ago would never have been produced. The ease and cost of buying a digital camera has led to a lot of people shooting porn. If they shoot real people having real sex you have a very high chance of getting a great scene. If they shoot actors faking it and male studs who think it's about them you get a crap scene.

It might very well be what 90% of people want to see. In a market that considers 1% a very high conversion rate it's not about what the 90% want to see, it's about what the 1% will buy. Plus what that 1% can't get for free on a Tube produced by a 1,000 other shooters.

I know how many sites buy so maybe privileged on this side. Most buy on price alone, sites asking for 5 solo girl scenes for $1500 should think long and hard before shouting about "quality" scenes.

You are dead right about quality sites with great porn, they are surviving.

if you think the industry is dying and don't want to figure out how to make new money, then all you have to do is move onto something else, instead of posting this on the forums.

Spot on. If we can force Tube sites to go legal they will. They will buy up the sites going bankrupt because of their free porn and pick up cheap content for their sites. Many will fail, but because they do will not make the surfer suddenly decide to buy his porn. The survivors will become bigger and more successful.

Spot on with the "Quality sells, always has, always will." Sites need to give surfers a very good reason to spend money. Today the only reason many give is landing on the site. Conversion rates of 1-100 means 99% were never saw a reason to buy.

I have an idea I hope will work. I will produce a site with content that people will buy and no one else can produce.

people will always pay more for quality.

over the past several months, whenever i've come across/heard about a tube site i'll do a search there for alsscan and everytime but 1- NADA, nothing, 0, zilch.

that one tube site only had 2 vids.

one need only to study www.ALSscan.com to see the solution.

+ ALSScan has virtually no affiliate program and i know how well they do yet ALS doesn't adapt and all that, never have in 12 years. hell, the font they use is still comic for crying out loud.

their system puts their video on lockdown<- bingo.

Breaking news: there is no money in porn. :)

Just imagin the owner of coca cola buys out pepsi and starts give pespsi for free!!
So people will buy coca cola just once a year, just to taste something different once in while!!

So that is what we are doing pushing tube sites!!!

REALLY?

http://www.btmon.com/Other/Unsorted/...6.torrent.html

I agree!

i stated tube sites, that i've checked.

torrents are a different matter (content uploaded from site suckers etc over 12 years) and not a part of the discussion here eh.

either way, my point is valid. the surfer must purchase each video at alsscan, obviously the tubes are not going in and buying video.

for sure :thumbsup

people freaked with TGPs became popular because they were giving away all sorts of free content. sure conversion #s dropped a bit and bandwidth bills went up, but that means you have to work a little harder and smarter.

same with tube sites. sure it sucks ass that there are full length movies out there, but honestly, (IMO) people join sites because the like the content and whats inside. with the advent of tube sites, conversion numbers go down and your bandwidth bill will go up... work harder and smarter and you will survive.

I don't understand why webmasters still promote BRAZZERS when these assholes owns the biggest tube sites on the net !

They are laughing their asses off now. But they won'y anymore when the business will be dead because surfers are too used to jerk on 10min free videos !