Okay Oracle Porn...you win. I'm lying. I'm sad and I'm living in a make-believe world. There are you happy now? LOL!

I guess while we're at it we all need to pull down all of our nastydollars and bangbros links (fling running ads all over tubesites thus funding them), all of our AFF links (need I say more?), and all of our AEBN links, and a dozen or so other sponsors too.

That'll teach 'em. Of course, I will lose my home, my cars, my entire life. But at least we will all do the right thing.

I'm being facetious bro...but come on...Damn you Charles for bringing this hell down on me! LOL!

Actually we have done this. We cut ties on traffic trades with sites you listed here for that very reason. We droped our co branded AFF cams cause of this and several other guys. Heres the falicy in all this though. We dindn't go broke!!!!!!!

GASP I know it?s a crazy idea but here's a wake up call to all webmasters (not pointing fingers at you Robbie) There are other legitimate sponsors out there who can still make you money that won't take stolen content traffic. You can make just as much with these people as you can with the others.

Lenny in regards to your comments I have put my money where my mouth is as we wont deal with these guys no matter how much they offer us to promote them or cross sell them. As far as me bitching that would imply im talking and not doing anything. I assure you I am not just talking and at the very least I'm trying to make others that think like me and care about this type of thing aware. If you chooses to not care that?s fine but dont say im bitching cause Im making others aware of things.

I dont agree with lots of peoples choices when it comes to content choices but Im nto the morality police. What Max or Red rose do is there business just like I dont care if you choose to host at choopa. The big diffrence in your analogy is that the lawyers are defending there rights as americans to have free speech something I agree with 100%. Protecting free speech we don't like is the most important speech to protect. Protecting people that steal directly from you me and everyone else is lawless and a different matter.

what are you 15?
im not even gonna reply to you anymore.

So since your money is where your mouth is I take it you block all google traffic to your websites and don't take traffic from affiliates who get traffic from google?

After all google is the biggest host of pirated content in the world.


</case></point></discussion>

You are so diluted it is ridiculous. Your arguments are so baseless and convoluted and only geared toward you trying to not feel like a thief for having no moral issues with dealing with them. You have proven what side of the fence your on and it is appreciated now go back to whatever it is you do and those of us that care about making an honest dollar can keep talking about it and outing the thieves to those that do care enough to not work with them.

Thanks for admitting that you have no counter argument.

Your arguments are based on your emotions, not on logic.

If they were based on logic you would have to boycott google and bash them every chance you got, the same way you do Choopa.

If you refuse to do business with "thieves" and "people who support thieves" and if you consider hosting a site that violates copyrights in a gross manner "supporting thieves", then Google is the biggest offender in the world and you need to boycott them as well.

Fuck, busted again. :1orglaugh

Charles, that's cool that you did all that. But you have to understand, I have a very long relationship with AFF and Streamray (translated: rebills) It would take a very nice wad of cash out of my pocket that would take YEARS to re-generate in terms of longterm rebilling.

When I first found out about content theft I couldn't believe it. Just a few years ago this kind of thing was unheard of. Now it's common. For about 6 months I fretted about it and thought "What can I do that will actually stop my stuff from being out there?"

I was very resistant to change in any way. But I finally did some research and found out what encrypted streaming was. I still scoffed at it, but I started coming around little by little.

I was also resistant to a service like removeyourcontent. The cynic in me thought that they would probably put our stuff up on tubes just to keep business running.

But finally, a couple of months back, I put up an update entitled "Double Dipped" The same day that I had put it in the members area I just innocently googled it. Not expecting to see anything...Well, you can guess what happened. It was a double whammy as I just coincidentally had put it out and some assholes had downloaded and re-uploaded it at the same time that google crawled and updated. GRRRRR.....

That was my last straw. The reason I'm on here posting now is I am STILL rendering the members area over. I'm down to the earliest 1/4 of the updates to go. And the last few updates that I did in encrypted streaming only can't be found anywhere but the members area.

Sure, it can be broken. But not easily. And not by the average surfer who is trying to get props from his buds on the big tit forums by posting our shit everywhere. It has been a big expense in time and money. But you know what? I'm seeing REAL results. And I didn't have to cut off my nose to spite my face to do it.

Choopa = directly gets paid to host stolen content even after it gets reptitive DMCA's =scum

google = search engine that does not get paid to list stolen content and will not approve keyword purchases based around stolen content = not directly benefiting from theft.

There I answered you do you feel better? It still doesn?t change what I said in my last post about the only reason you could have defended this is your as dirty are.


Lets not forget just cause someone else does it does nto make it right. Lest we all forget there are still people like ATK, Score, Nubiles, ALScans that will not do dirty business and still make tons of money. These are the types we should be striving to be like not the choopa/brazzers bottom feeders in this industry.

charles chooses to draw his line there, others draw theirs elsewhere. your logical argument seems to be based on finding a tenous connection between sometime he considers bad to critical systems "well, if you dont like choopa because they host tube sites, so you should block traffic from google becaue they promote tube sites as well, otherwise your a hypocrite"

im not going to stop using cox as my ISP because some shady webmaster uses them, i just wont promote his stuff

So are you afraid they would cut your rebills if you pulled the ads and promoted someone else? Fear of people fucking you over is not a good motivator to continue a business relationship with them.

No, I'm not afraid of it. I just can't chance it. My kids depend on me as do several elderly members of my family. I can't risk losing income from one part of my business because then I have to find a way to replace that income from somewhere else. My philosophy is straight ahead and make more money this year than last. Deliberately sabatoging my income would hurt bad and hurt the people I really care about that depend on me.

Here's a question...who is hosting the companies that actually fund the tubesites? Why not start there? A few enablers make bank for all the tubes and torrents. Not just one or two. Just a thought.

thats how it's usually done on their side of town.
dirty business with dirty people.

p.s. this argument is pointless, some people will do more then others for quick cash.... </discussion>

Google = owns youtube, the biggest source of pirated content anywhere in the world.


Also, for your information, I don't know why you think anyone who disagrees with you in any way must somehow be tainted, but you're wrong.

The tubes have cost me alot. In terms of dollars they may be costing you more, but in terms of percentage of revenue I promise you they're hurting me ALOT more. I'm getting absolutely creamed over here, to the point where I'm updating my resume because I may be out of this business in 6 months.
That being said, sitting on my soap box and trying to hurt the business of everyone who is somehow related to or doing business with an illegal tube site is just petty and ridiculous.

Should we find out where they deposit their AFF checks and boycott that bank? If it's Chase, does that mean I have to refinance my mortgage and transfer my credit card balances to be "clean" in your eyes?

Be pissed at, and go after, the people violating your copyrights. Trying to lump a bunch of other people into the fight is as silly as, well, blocking all google traffic because of youtube.

Choopa = Hosts stolen content

Google = Hosts stolen content


Karups = Bashes choopa at every turn and tries to hurt their business. Implies that anyone doing business with them is supporting theft.

Karups = Gladly accepts google traffic to it's own sites and from affiliates who receive google traffic.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. He "drew his line" in an arbitrary place based on emotion and not logic, and has decided that since I disagree with him I must be "dirty".

I think it's a huge stretch to compare what CHOOPA does and what Google does. There is also a big difference in pulling your traffic from the largest search engine in the world and switching to another host.

Mojo is a great team, you are not alone on this one!:winkwink:

Hmmmm, let's see.

Choopa is an ISP that hosts sites that contain stolen content (or violate copyrights)

Google is a company that OWNS and HOSTS a site that is the biggest source of copyright violations in the world.


So then in this "moral argument" it's all a matter of how much it costs you to do the "right thing"?
It's ok to do business with thieves if you can't make a living without them?

I personally don't feel that I drew my line in an arbitrary place. Also I do not see how it is hypocritical I drew my line saying those that profit directly from stolen content are people I will not deal with. The line has to be drawn somewhere and no matter where it is people will argue to one side or the other. By your logic I probably should not accept traffic from people like Robbie that host at choopa but I don't agree with that. I made a line I believe in that I am comfortable with. I dont expect cause I say I don't like company X that nobody else will promote them or that people will be like oh man Charles said they are bad there is no way I can host there. I am simply letting people that can make up there own minds see that these guys are doing something that people may not agree with. If doing so would ruin there business then maybe Choopa should have thought about that and not point fingers at me for outing them.

Stating my personal opinion on a marketing method of someone else is just that an opinion. If your hurt so bad by all this and looking to have to find a new job then I am at a loss for what your reasoning at defending the guys who directly profit from your losses
is. I know you and I have not seen eye to eye since we outed naughty america who was your number one sponsor some time ago but other then that I can not think of a reason your butting heads with me so hard defending guys you have to admit are crooks.

[QUOTE=Karupted Charles;14631588]I personally don't feel that I drew my line in an arbitrary place. Also I do not see how it is hypocritical I drew my line saying those that profit directly from stolen content are people I will not deal with. [/quote[
What you're not understanding is that GOOGLE is oneof those that profit directly from stolen content.

It's not personal, you're making it personal but it's not to me.

You're making a moral argument and it's very flawed, I'm simply pointing out the flaws. If you want to believe it's about something else then there's nothing I can do to stop you.

The bottom line is that it's perfectly ok to have a problem with people who are hurting you directly. (read: illegal tube sites)
It's going too far to have a problem with their host, or their bank, or the company that designed their logo, or whatever. If you're going to go that far then you have to have a problem with google as well.......that's all I'm saying.

[QUOTE=Snake Doctor;14631618]You say my points or flawed but your counter points make no sense. Google has a review policy on its adwords campaign and they will not accept things they deam to be illegal. Google takes steps to remove content from youtube that is direct infringement. Choopa knows what they are doing and then comes here like they are not doing anything and tries to get the people they are supporting theft from to pay them also. That?s the big difference if Google came here and was directly trying to get business from us I would have something to say there also. But im not going to blacklist legitimate traffic for people looking for my product cause they get there via google just like I wont block timewarner or comcast cause people on those networks do illegal things.

As far as I want to believe its something else that not true. I love to learn and engage in intelligent conversation. If and when I am wrong I usually am the first to admit it, ask anyone that knows me. I have made an ass out of myself many times and taken the heat and jokes related to it when it was made clear to me I was off base.

My comments they you took as me taking this personal were an attempt to understand why someone that is saying he may have to look for a new job because of content theft is approving the business dealings of choopa. Your smart and have been around a long time so the only logical conclusion I could come up with is either you are getting into tubes to avoid going broke or you have some axe to grind with me and used this as your platform. In either case its not a concern cause all this back and forth has done is get more page views and possibly shown a few more people who is doing what and why.

Wow this snake doctor is a total Moron and I guarantee he hosts at choopa.:2 cents:

http://www.choopa.com/corporate/acceptable_use.php

Hey Cyanide try reading your employers TOS. I remember when the host didn't protect illegal sites.

I am SHOCKED by the lack of support from other webmasters on this forum.

I'd have to take my shoes off to count how many times someone said they would cut Choopa's head off for hosting Redtube.

Where are they all now?

Getting cheap hosting with Choopa?


Robbie, I will never respond to someone asking me who I am kindly. You to me are nobody. You have done NOTHING in this industry that impresses me or has any use to me. You have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to demand I tell you who I am. I am glad that this thread came out the way it did and the TRUTH about how you feel about this industry and the money in your pockets is out in the open for anyone to read.

You care very little for the industry as a whole. You have your own agenda, group of bros, and that is all that matters to you.

GFY.

This relates to SOO many industries that I am a part of.

Not just adult.

If people would just do their fucking part and stop being soo self absorbed we would ALL be making a lot more money.

Wow that's even deeper down the rabbit hole. Let's go after the people who host the people who advertise on the tube sites?

In reverse order.

3) I have no axe to grind with you. I honestly like you, I'm just pointing out what I see as the flaws in your logic here.

2) I'm not getting into tubes, I'm doing alot of different things but giving away full length scenes isn't part of the plan. Even with licensed content or permission from the copyright holder, giving away full scenes is just plain fucking stupid.

1) Choopa's business dealings have nothing to do with this...anymore than time warner or cox do. If the tube site owner uploads the stolen content via one of these providers we don't blacklist or blackball them.

Being pissed off at the tube site's host is no different than being pissed off at their bank, or their electric company, or their local ISP, or the guy who designed their logo. The fact that you can't understand that logic doesn't make it any less logical.

Wow, what a great contribution you've made to the discussion. :321GFY

Who the hell are you and what the hell do you do in this biz that anyone should give a fuck what you think?
And what difference does it make where I host?

Yeah, maybe Charles should not accept traffic from me to Karups, since I host at choopa, and choopa hosts the tubes, so therefore I'm helping the people that are helping the people that are stealing from him.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

This is all futile because it doesn't matter if a host pulls a tube.

The tube will find it's own hosting even if nobody will host it.

Which is just impossible with the 150,000 hosts online today.

youtube and redtube cannot be compared.

youtube = genuine user uploaded content and responds to dmca's.

redtube = .................................................. .........................

Okay everybody. You all saw where I said that I extended my hand in friendship to klaze. Now he says these things to me?

What now Charles? Was I too rough on him? And now he says these things? WTF?!?! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I'm playing nice and I just got slammed by a guy whom none of us even is sure is in this business. And each time he says things trying to start drama....I get crucified because I asked him what he does and who he is?

My instinct is to go to work and have some fun. But if you guys think I'm too rough on him then fine.

My reply to you klaze is: Hi klaze. Nice to meet you. Welcome to GFY. I'm sure that you're really good at whatever it is that you do in this business. I hope to one day meet you and discuss ways to make money. :) Please forgive me for having the out of control ego to ask you who you are. I should already know who you are if I were anything at all in this business. But since I'm a nobody I don't and made the mistake of questioning you. I can only hope that none of my colleagues in adult make the same mistake of having the audacity to ask you who you are. Obviously you are a player.

It's still apples and oranges. You are talking about blocking free traffic that is being sent to you vs paying for hosting services.

In a way, yes. I don't think anyone should hurt their own livelihood over something like this. I don't think anyone should take food off the plates of their children over this. Boycotting over moral issues is never black and white. I personally dislike what the government has been doing the last 8 years, but I'm not going to boycott using roads because of it.

If you truly feel that moving away from CHOOPA is something that would cost you money and hurt your life, then by all means don't do it. I believe for many people, blocking Google traffic would have a signifigant impact on their life. I don't believe the same can be said for a hosting company.

Oh shit...now you done fucked up Snake Doctor. You just made the rookie mistake that I did. You asked somebody who they are and what they do.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh Now it's your ass!

I dont' think those are good examples or can be compared to the relationship of a host to a site. A host is allowing a site to use its property. Not unlike a landowner allowing someone to rent his property. Would you be pissed if your landlord knowingly rented out units to drug dealers in your neighborhood? Or your neighbor rented out his backyard to the KKK for a rally?

A bank and electric company are unwilling accessories. A host has a direct relationship with the site that is using its property.

150 Faceless, nameless keyboard warrior ninjas

I have submitted your members videos to red tube and others, as well as put the pw on forums that auto grab your content from your member areas, then auto submit them to tubes. Should take less than 48 hours to have your entire site pirated, and at least 2 videos on Redtube.

Care that Choopa hosts them now?

You talkin' to me? Good luck with that!

You should ask who I am :) Then think about what you just said again.

I'll tell you who you are. You're a guy who is threatening my site. That's all that matters to me. Why you would do that...I don't know. BUT, I'll wait and see.

Oh and I'm a threat? But hosting on Choopa - that hosts RedTube, that won't listen to your DCMA notices isn't a threat at all. You are "supporting" piracy, but giving the people that support it more money to host them.

All I'm doing is being a Webmaster, trying to make a dime, doing what I do to drive in traffic. I didn't read your terms, so I assume it's okay to promote on pirated sources since you host at Choopa, duh.

I went back and checked your terms, just to be safe, I hate doing work I don't get paid on.

First, you say what types of traffic you don't want, I won't send you newsgroup traffic then. Tubes/torrent pops should be fine? You also state "We do not accept any responsibility for your content." - Sweet, so you don't care it's on a pirated site.

See, I didn't make a threat, I'm just being a Webmaster following your rules.

Think of this, I'm supporting you - by pushing you, you earn more money, to pay the host, that supports piracy. So I'm with you on this man, all the way, to the death, like brothers!

Look TheDoc. Do whatever you think you must to hurt me for whatever reasons you think you must do that. I have already stated that I host with Choopa and did so back in Nov. of 2006. I didn't know about tubes at that time. I do now. It pisses me off. I have taken steps to stop tubes from stealing my shit. I now know what redtube is. Am I going to pull out right now? No! I'm in the middle of moving from the east coast to Vegas. No way am I going to start something like that. Not gonna happen. Why you want to come at me...again I don't know.

I guess you are going to teach me a lesson and force me to change hosting companies. So be it. I'm kinda old and slow though.

Whoah..."my rules"? Are you somehow saying that since I'm hosted on Choopa that I run the joint? Holy fuck...

That's all I wanted to hear, I'm done.