Americans, what do you think of Pickens Plan?

[Sly]

Cliff Notes... big-time oilman says the United States is too dependent on foreign oil. We spend a $700 billion a year on foreign oil. His plan is to take advantage of our vast wind resources and fulfill 20% of our electricity needs with windfarms. In his plan, this would replace the 20% of electricity created by natural gas... which could then be used for transportation instead of oil/gas... therefore, cutting our dependency on foreign oil.

The project would cost roughly $1.2 trillion to set up, which in turn would save trillions of dollars overtime and also quite drastically reduce our dependence on foreign oil, plus it would be dramatically better for the environment, not to mention that it would create a lot of high skilled jobs in rural America. He is proposing that the government either help with this project or reduce all of the barriers that are preventing private companies from investing in this (regulations, etc.)

http://www.pickensplan.com/

Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?

[CDSmith]

I'm actually surprised no one has so openly pushed for this sooner, it's something that has been sort of grumbled about for a long time though.

Once a project like that is in place it's basically free ongoing energy production. The wind isn't likely to go away ever, I know mine won't. :D

[Holly]

Admit it- as soon as you started seeing those commercials pop up everywhere with a name like "T. Boone Pickens", weren't you just waiting for some filthy scandal to come out?

I say he's either a sex freak, he's got small children tied up in his basement, or he's murdering people and burying them out on his ranch.

I'm okay with windmills, though.

[BradM]

He will profit from it. But I'd rather a hick american make tons of cash than a bunch of fucking saudis.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by BradM

He will profit from it. But I'd rather a hick american make tons of cash than a bunch of fucking saudis.

Of course he will, and so well everyone else that gets involved. That does not make it a bad idea.

Though I'm betting that he would profit more from oil prices staying high.

[pornguy]

This sounds a bit like a set up to me. One way for him to MAKE more money. Not sure why.

Same thing could be done with more nuclear power plants.

[uno]

Weird that its taking a billionaire oilman to get republicans to talk about alternative energy.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by pornguy

This sounds a bit like a set up to me. One way for him to MAKE more money. Not sure why.

Same thing could be done with more nuclear power plants.

Yeh, but we need more of them too.

It's funny how we all want to do what we need to do to make money... but when somebody else does, "oh no!?

[pocketkangaroo]

I don't know, on the surface it looks good. But Pickens has a real shady past. Remember that this was the guy behind the swiftboat stuff back in 2004. For him to be bitching about alternative energy is pretty silly considering the party he's been backing.

[woj]

so what's the problem? Why isn't he setting this up yet? oh, wait, I know why, because from a business viewpoint it makes zero sense to generate electricity from wind power...

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by woj

so what's the problem? Why isn't he setting this up yet? oh, wait, I know why, because from a business viewpoint it makes zero sense to generate electricity from wind power...

He was on Larry King the other night and got owned. King asked him how many wind machines he had on his property, for which he mumbled around before coming up with some lame excuse why he couldn't do it. I'm all for alternative energy, but this guy has a "do as I say, not as I do" mindset.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by uno

Weird that its taking a billionaire oilman to get republicans to talk about alternative energy.

he's near the end of his life and has already made his money. I doubt he wants to make some more so he can take it to the grave....in any interviews I've seen, I get a sense that he really cares about the crisis, and wants to do something.

It's a good idea, but I think it's just a start, not the solution.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by woj

so what's the problem? Why isn't he setting this up yet? oh, wait, I know why, because from a business viewpoint it makes zero sense to generate electricity from wind power...

http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/14/t-b...est-wind-farm/

He has been setting it up in Texas. Similar systems are already in action.

Here is another article about why he cannot do it all by himself:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/22/opinion/22tue3.html

[Dollarmansteve]

Of note - what pickens is really interested in is the water that is underneath the land where the windfarms are located. he's already building a water pipeline to Dallas from the texas panhandle.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by uno

Weird that its taking a billionaire oilman to get republicans to talk about alternative energy.

youve been listening to neo-cons true conservatives have been talking about this for a long time

[mynameisjim]

Is there really a lack of electricity? Coal is virtually inexhaustible in America and with a bit of technology, coal plants can be made much cleaner than they are today. The only reason your electricity bill has gone up 2X in the past 3 years is because banks like Morgan Stanly and Citigroup now own electric companies. They don't own any powerlines, they just buy and sell electricity. So they are a non-value added milddleman and jack up the price. Same with natural gas.

Wind power would be great. But if you let the same companies run it, you will be in the same boat. And that's what these guys like T. Boone Pickens want. They will eventually charge the same price for electricity but they'll be able to produce it for cheaper. Energy companies will make more money and everyday people will pay the same.

[webair]

Im all for anyone with the name t bone

[crockett]

I like most oif it in fact I was quite surprised he had almost the same thoughts as me on natural gas.

I've said for a while now, that we should be moving to natural gas for transportation fuel and to stop using it for generating electric. If we used NG for transportation fuel only we could pretty much be 100% self sufficient.

I totally agree with using the wind power but I don't agree with 50% of the electric power being generated by coal. I think the coal and nuclear should be swapped on his charts.. (nuclear should be 50% and coal only 20%)

I also think solar should play a bigger role in his plan, but overall I agree with it other than the 50% coal.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by crockett

I like most oif it in fact I was quite surprised he had almost the same thoughts as me on natural gas.

I've said for a while now, that we should be moving to natural gas for transportation fuel and to stop using it for generating electric. If we used NG for transportation fuel only we could pretty much be 100% self sufficient.

I totally agree with using the wind power but I don't agree with 50% of the electric power being generated by coal. I think the coal and nuclear should be swapped on his charts.. (nuclear should be 50% and coal only 20%)

I also think solar should play a bigger role in his plan, but overall I agree with it other than the 50% coal.

Which chart did you look at? The one I saw with similar figures was talking about the current status, not what he would like to see. Unless I read it wrong. Either way, I agree with you... more nuclear and renewable energy sources.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sly

Which chart did you look at? The one I saw with similar figures was talking about the current status, not what he would like to see. Unless I read it wrong. Either way, I agree with you... more nuclear and renewable energy sources.

The chart on his site..

[Sly]

Originally Posted by crockett

The chart on his site..

So what exactly are you not agreeing with? That chart represents our current electricity sources.

[qxm]

Looks like a good plan...... I am all for it

[Snake Doctor]

I think that it doesn't do anything to fuel our cars which is where our big problem lies in the future. We have lots of other ways of making electricity that don't involve oil.

I think he's doing this because he's got a shit pot full of money invested in wind technologies and he wants the government to do for his windmills what they did for Iowa's corn fields.

Personally, I think T Boone Pickens is an asshole. He was the money man behind the swift boat attacks on John Kerry.
When the facts of those ads were challenged, he offered a $1 million reward to anyone who could disprove even a single charge in the ads.
Kerry offered to meet with Pickens and do so, with the million dollars going to veterans' charities. Pickens reneged.

[2012]

TBOON PICKENS ... ?

He's a guy they made up we can laugh at.... whats new

That name makes lots of static ...

get real

[2012]

Originally Posted by fartfly

TBOON PICKENS ... ?

He's a guy they made up we can laugh at.... whats new

That name makes lots of static ...

get real

Anytime now Boss Hog is going to come out behind him with the plan to save the Universe .... and you all bought it ... congrats

[2012]

hook line and sinker ... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! whats new

[uno]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

youve been listening to neo-cons true conservatives have been talking about this for a long time

Neo-cons HAVE been the republican party for a while.

[2012]

did you ever see the episode where sanford and son goes to hawaii ? suckerrrrrrrrrrrrrs

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I think that it doesn't do anything to fuel our cars which is where our big problem lies in the future. We have lots of other ways of making electricity that don't involve oil.

I think he's doing this because he's got a shit pot full of money invested in wind technologies and he wants the government to do for his windmills what they did for Iowa's corn fields.

Personally, I think T Boone Pickens is an asshole. He was the money man behind the swift boat attacks on John Kerry.
When the facts of those ads were challenged, he offered a $1 million reward to anyone who could disprove even a single charge in the ads.
Kerry offered to meet with Pickens and do so, with the million dollars going to veterans' charities. Pickens reneged.

lol what do you mean? The whole plan revolves around us stopping the usage of natural gas for electric and replacing that with wind power, then using the natural gas for autos.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sly

So what exactly are you not agreeing with? That chart represents our current electricity sources.

Your right I didn't pay attention to the graph. Just pretend the Natural Gas says "wind power" and that's his plan.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

I think that it doesn't do anything to fuel our cars which is where our big problem lies in the future. We have lots of other ways of making electricity that don't involve oil.

I think he's doing this because he's got a shit pot full of money invested in wind technologies and he wants the government to do for his windmills what they did for Iowa's corn fields.

Personally, I think T Boone Pickens is an asshole. He was the money man behind the swift boat attacks on John Kerry.
When the facts of those ads were challenged, he offered a $1 million reward to anyone who could disprove even a single charge in the ads.
Kerry offered to meet with Pickens and do so, with the million dollars going to veterans' charities. Pickens reneged.

It doesn't have anything to do with fueling cars? Yes it does. Did you read the site?

Anyway, some valid points are being made in this thread. I don't agree with everything in his plan and I think some additional elements need to be added as well... but we will market that as the Sly Plan.

All in all... even if it is for personal profit, this guy is doing something. Is anybody else?

If there was somebody like this in each of the renewable resources sectors, we could really see some crazy changes happening.

[jalami]

I think it's a good start. The thing about electricity generation, whether it be nuclear, hydro, windfarms or solar, or even coal and oil for that matter, is that the bitch isn't generating electricity, it's transmitting it. If wind power is readily available in one part of the country (say Texas for example) it's really only of feasible use in Texas and neighboring states.

The true Plan to fix America's dependency on oil is to implement a variety of options, including the Pickens Plan. Solar (particular solar concentrating power as a far superior alternative to photovoltaics -- look it up) would be great for the Southwest -- with the proper investment it wouldn't be hard to bring that up to 20%. Clean coal is also a great option that should be used more extensively in areas with plenty of coal.

And let's not forget the real alternative folks -- Nuclear power. Before I hear anyone say the word "waste" I'll preemptively counter it with "reprocessing." Look it up. If it weren't for Jimmy Carter's misguided policy to ban civilian nuclear reprocessing in 1977, we'd actually be able to use the byproducts of a regular reactor to breed fuel forever and ever. Countries like Japan (which is reopening the Monju reactor this year) that don't have spare room to store the byproducts on a permanent basis are working on reusing them for even MORE energy.

Of course there's always properly inflating your tires -- i.e. the Obama Plan ;)

[GrouchyAdmin]

Much like the 'green' efforts, it's never going to have any effect but waste money, and create pointless positions.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by jalami

I think it's a good start. The thing about electricity generation, whether it be nuclear, hydro, windfarms or solar, or even coal and oil for that matter, is that the bitch isn't generating electricity, it's transmitting it. If wind power is readily available in one part of the country (say Texas for example) it's really only of feasible use in Texas and neighboring states.

The true Plan to fix America's dependency on oil is to implement a variety of options, including the Pickens Plan. Solar (particular solar concentrating power as a far superior alternative to photovoltaics -- look it up) would be great for the Southwest -- with the proper investment it wouldn't be hard to bring that up to 20%. Clean coal is also a great option that should be used more extensively in areas with plenty of coal.

And let's not forget the real alternative folks -- Nuclear power. Before I hear anyone say the word "waste" I'll preemptively counter it with "reprocessing." Look it up. If it weren't for Jimmy Carter's misguided policy to ban civilian nuclear reprocessing in 1977, we'd actually be able to use the byproducts of a regular reactor to breed fuel forever and ever. Countries like Japan (which is reopening the Monju reactor this year) that don't have spare room to store the byproducts on a permanent basis are working on reusing them for even MORE energy.

Of course there's always properly inflating your tires -- i.e. the Obama Plan ;)

Totally agreed.

And transmission is a major problem, which is why one person cannot do it alone. Proper transmission isn't even set up right now for our current electricity needs.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by crockett

lol what do you mean? The whole plan revolves around us stopping the usage of natural gas for electric and replacing that with wind power, then using the natural gas for autos.

Originally Posted by Sly

It doesn't have anything to do with fueling cars? Yes it does. Did you read the site?

Anyway, some valid points are being made in this thread. I don't agree with everything in his plan and I think some additional elements need to be added as well... but we will market that as the Sly Plan.

All in all... even if it is for personal profit, this guy is doing something. Is anybody else?

If there was somebody like this in each of the renewable resources sectors, we could really see some crazy changes happening.

Really? So we already have cars that run on natural gas? That's news to me.

Originally Posted by climateprogress.org

Half of it is great, the big push on wind power. Heck, even the Bush administration says wind power could be 20% of U.S. electricity. But the notion that we would use the wind power to free up natural gas in order to fuel a transition to natural gas vehicles makes no sense. Why would we go to the trouble of switching our vehicle fleet from running on one expensive fossil fuel to another expensive fossil fuel? Any freed up natural gas should be used to displace coal?.

I don't have any real problems with wind power for electricity, but the bottom line on our energy crisis is that we need something to replace the internal combustion engine.
If we got 100% of our electricity from wind, nuclear, or whatever it still wouldn't affect our dependence on foreign oil much because what we use oil for is cars and trucks.

So Picken's plan is just that...a plan for Pickens....to make lots of money.

You also said this guy is doing something...is anyone else?

Yeah, all of the candidates who ran for president this year have energy plans. Lots of other groups have plans that are good plans...they just don't have the $$ Pickens has to advertise said plans.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by BradM

He will profit from it. But I'd rather a hick american make tons of cash than a bunch of fucking saudis.

[ztik]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

He was on Larry King the other night and got owned. King asked him how many wind machines he had on his property, for which he mumbled around before coming up with some lame excuse why he couldn't do it. I'm all for alternative energy, but this guy has a "do as I say, not as I do" mindset.

What does that have to do with his plan?

[WhiplashDug]

Its a great idea... but right now it wont work. Can't replace fueled power with wind or solar. Its too unreliable.

See, the thing is, since there isn't a way to store mass amounts of unused power, the power grid has to have fueled power sources on and running equal to what is being produced by the wind so that if/when the wind slows down, or misses a day there is a power source to keep everyone lights on.

NOT to mention, that each wind turbine generates a rather small amount of energy, so you will need millions of them all over... maybe you would like to live next the 300-400 million acres of them? guess we can tear up some farm land, maybe rip out the corn (since ethenol don't really work anyway). Or maybe clear cut a few hundreed million acres of national forest and put them there...

ONLY answer to the energy issue in USA is nuclear power! The cheapest, most efficient power source on earth!

[WhiplashDug]

as for dependence on foriegn oil? simple! DRILL HERE DRILL NOW!

Allow drilling anywhere we got oil! Enact new laws that strengthen our already very strict environmental laws regarding its extraction & creates a NEW TAX ($2-$3 a barrel) that is directed ONLY to researching NEW TECHNOLOGIES!

IMO.. Hybrid's and pure electric cars will be the way we end up. There is NO other fuel that is as effective or efficient as petroleum. Hybrid vehicles are making huge advancements! Thats the next logical step! Invest in their development!

[BradM]

It's cute when Dug posts. The general uneducated American populace really doesn't "get it" even when the people who want to drill say "It will lower prices by a few c per gallon, and won't be able to keep up with any kind of demand, so the % it pumps into the total barrels a day is TINY"

But he thinks it will help. LOL Dug what other things do you (average uneducated Americans) think about current issues and world events?

Sigh.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Really? So we already have cars that run on natural gas? That's news to me.

http://www.ngvamerica.org/

There's your news.

[marketsmart]

if t bone is so into saving the US, why is he buying up all the water rights he can get hios hands on..

i like the guy, always have ever since he was the first guy to talk about peak oil, but i just cant shake this gut feeling that he has a hidden agenda behind everything he does..

anyway, there's going to be a lot of money to be made in alternative energy...

[BradM]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i like the guy, always have ever since he was the first guy to talk about peak oil, but i just cant shake this gut feeling that he has a hidden agenda behind everything he does..

EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING HAS A HIDDEN AGENDA.

Why would a rich oil man from Texas be ANY different?

Shit.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by BradM

EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING HAS A HIDDEN AGENDA.

Why would a rich oil man from Texas be ANY different?

Shit.

Every great invention, and even the bad ones, was created with money in mind. It would be silly to think that this is any different. That doesn't make it a bad idea.

What's funny is somebody could find a straight up cure for cancer and people would still throw a fit because somebody, somewhere is going to get rich off of it.

[WhiplashDug]

Originally Posted by BradM

It's cute when Dug posts. The general uneducated American populace really doesn't "get it" even when the people who want to drill say "It will lower prices by a few c per gallon, and won't be able to keep up with any kind of demand, so the % it pumps into the total barrels a day is TINY"

But he thinks it will help. LOL Dug what other things do you (average uneducated Americans) think about current issues and world events?

Sigh.

Seriously... take the propaganda somewhere else! Your talking points don't mean anything to real Americans! But, since your so well educated on the subject, perhaps you can enlighten some of us simpletons?

First, maybe you can explain to us how much oil there is, how much we could extract, and why it would have so little effect?

Then, help us understand how adding tens of millions of barrels a day
in DOMESTIC supply has a negative effects on our economy? And how created a new, source of money to invest in renewable energy technology is again, not worth it?

Lastly, while you at it, please enlighten us as to how none of this would help to strengthen the US economy/dollar and how a stronger dollar would not mean lower prices for oil?

[Ad3pt]

I think it's a great idea. We have to start somewhere to get the ball rolling. If he's going to make money off it so will others. Maybe that will even inspire more development in other technologies.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Really? So we already have cars that run on natural gas? That's news to me.

Umm we have had cars that run on natural gas for years maybe even decades. There are many companies that already have fleet vehicles that run on natural gas, UPS is one of them.

The best thing about natural gas, it is the only fuel that can replace oil right now. It also can be used in the cars we have now, they just have to have a different carburetor system set up.

The other cool thing about NG is it lets engines last much longer than a engine that burns oil based gas because there is very little carbon build up. There is really no downside to NG, other than the fact we are using it for generating electric and that's taking up most of the current supply.

[Snake Doctor]

Ok well my lack of knowledge about natural gas cars notwithstanding....I still don't think it's a great idea.

The wind thing is fine, but I don't like the idea of natural gas cars. As was posted before, why replace one expensive fossil fuel with another?

My personal preference is nuclear power, lots and lots and lots of nuclear power to light up the power grid....and electric cars that will get their juice from the same power grid.

Then we can spend all those billions of dollars on technologies to safely dispose of or recycle the waste material.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by ztik

What does that have to do with his plan?

I just have a tough time trusting a guy's plan who has been such a shady, lying scumbag in the past.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

Its a great idea... but right now it wont work. Can't replace fueled power with wind or solar. Its too unreliable.

See, the thing is, since there isn't a way to store mass amounts of unused power, the power grid has to have fueled power sources on and running equal to what is being produced by the wind so that if/when the wind slows down, or misses a day there is a power source to keep everyone lights on.

NOT to mention, that each wind turbine generates a rather small amount of energy, so you will need millions of them all over... maybe you would like to live next the 300-400 million acres of them? guess we can tear up some farm land, maybe rip out the corn (since ethenol don't really work anyway). Or maybe clear cut a few hundreed million acres of national forest and put them there...

ONLY answer to the energy issue in USA is nuclear power! The cheapest, most efficient power source on earth!

I agree with you on nuclear. It's too bad that we had the incident at 3 Mile Island which was overblown and scared the public away from nuclear. But long term, it is the way we should go. There are some issue with it such as what to do with the nuclear waste and old facilities that need to be addressed though.

But I still don't see why using wind or solar is a bad thing. If you pick the parts of the country right, it's as reliable as anything. Even if it only aids in the power grid, every bit helps. While solar has issues with land, wind doesn't. Farmers in fact can lease their land out for the turbines. We see this being done right now with power lines and cell phone towers without any problems. Farmers can grow crops right up to the base of the turbine with no problems. It's a great way for farmers to maximize their land even more than they currently do.

I see very little problem at all with wind, especially if it's used as a secondary form of energy.