Should revshare webmasters get paid for pre-checked cross sales?

[pr0]

On a 50/50 rev share program....that has a pre-checked $40 cross sale on the signup form....should the program owner pay the webmaster 50% of that profit?

And which programs are doing it......

[dissipate]

On a 50/50 rev program it should defiantly be split.

[Zango]

NO, you get 50% of the site sale. That's it.

Unless webmasters start paying 50% of the hosting bills, staff fees, design, code work, office space and so on... then NO! They get their % of the site sale, no more.

Greedy bastards.

[hateman]

Why only Rev Share? Why not PPS too?

[StarkReality]

They should, but I don't know a single program doing it...would be about time that affiliates in revshare programs get a share of upsells and xsells.

A PSS program may need to keep them to afford high PSS payouts, no problem, although I think a member is worth alot more than 35$ on average, since even when they quit their membership, you can still mail them forever and sooner or later they'll buy a membership or whatever again.

[aubreythree]

Absolutely 100%

[V_RocKs]

Revshare covers the site being sold.

That said.. If you included it, it would be a way to get my traffic.

[CyberHustler]

Yes, since we helped make that cross sale with OUR TRAFFIC!

[kane]

I have always said that revshare really isn't true revshare because you don't get a piece of any upsells, crosschecks and in some cases exit consoles. That said, you are also not paying for hosting, content, design etc, but in my mind that is what the partnership is about. they provide the site, content etc and you provide the traffic and you split the profit.

So to answer the question I would say yes. If your site has any traffic leaks that you can earn money from the affiliate should get a cut of that.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by kane

I have always said that revshare really isn't true revshare because you don't get a piece of any upsells, crosschecks and in some cases exit consoles. That said, you are also not paying for hosting, content, design etc, but in my mind that is what the partnership is about. they provide the site, content etc and you provide the traffic and you split the profit.

So to answer the question I would say yes. If your site has any traffic leaks that you can earn money from the affiliate should get a cut of that.

I can't wait to see at least 1 program come in here & say....YES WE DO PAY REVSHARE ON OUR CROSS SALES AS WELL

but i don't think there is 1 fucking program out there doing it

damn crying shame....should be ashamed of themselves

[dynastoned]

the affiliate brings the traffic to your site and makes a sale for you. but doesn't get a cut off of the xsale when its 50/50? thats the same as having an exit and the affiliate not getting credit for it in my opinion. unfortunately it seems this is par for the course these days..

[Vick!]

yeah, in an ideal world.

[fuzebox]

I would expect more than 50% from a revshare program with xsells.

[pr0]

still waiting to hear from ONE program that cuts revshare webmasters in our cross sales

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by pr0

still waiting to hear from ONE program that cuts revshare webmasters in our cross sales

I think you may be waiting for a while

[pr0]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

I think you may be waiting for a while

no doubt

but I'd at least like some of them to come in & vote for the "fuck you, thats my coke & whore $!" option

ya know...at least be honest & stop hiding....i respect that

like gleem, he's cool in my book

[Yngwie]

Personally I think that we should get money for xsales. Sure, they pay the hosting, get all the content etc, but we also pay for hosting and do work to promote their site(s). So we have to pay for our hosting and work in order to get the traffic in hope that they will buy a membership.

We're the reason that the xsale was made. After all, it came from traffic that we sent traffic that we worked to get so why should the company that owns the site get a bigger share? It is a partnership program, right?

For PPS I can understand us not getting any of the xsale $, but for a partnership it should be 50/50 or whatever the payout is of every sale made on the site(s) including upsales, xsales etc.. Of course, as mentioned, it's highly unlikely that any sponsors pays on xsales.

[mn]

xsells whenever they are prechecked or non prechecked should be paid for in revshare. It's called revshare.

If the current tracking software doesn't have the possibility to track xsells for affiliates a raise in percentage is the way to go.

In PPS it should not be paid for.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by kane

I have always said that revshare really isn't true revshare because you don't get a piece of any upsells, crosschecks and in some cases exit consoles. That said, you are also not paying for hosting, content, design etc, but in my mind that is what the partnership is about. they provide the site, content etc and you provide the traffic and you split the profit.

So to answer the question I would say yes. If your site has any traffic leaks that you can earn money from the affiliate should get a cut of that.

Problem is few webmaster will take a split of the profit, unless it's weighted heavily in their favor. Webmasters want a split of the turnover and support.

I'm thinking about it and will talk to a few sponsors to see what can be done, their sites and what they offer have to be suitable. Then I will look at splitting the profit on the cross sell and upsells. The simplest way to do it is adjust the rev share figure on the turn over. But that will get all the flamers telling me I'm shaving.

Or pay out 50% of what we receive from the cross sell sponsor. Need to see how this can be done.

Or giving all the cross sell to the affiliate and seeing if we win with more traffic.

With the $5 sites, magic join link sites, we will have a few affiliates. The aim will be to pay them on all upsells and cross sells to sites in our program.

So does that answer your question Pr0?

[GrouchyAdmin]

Ah, when $50 PPS for a $5 virtualhost and its very own installation of WordPress just isn't enough.

[Broda]

I remember back in the day, SIC Cash paid $10 per generated xsell on top of the joins. Not sure it they still do.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Problem is few webmaster will take a split of the profit, unless it's weighted heavily in their favor. Webmasters want a split of the turnover and support.

I'm thinking about it and will talk to a few sponsors to see what can be done, their sites and what they offer have to be suitable. Then I will look at splitting the profit on the cross sell and upsells. The simplest way to do it is adjust the rev share figure on the turn over. But that will get all the flamers telling me I'm shaving.

Or pay out 50% of what we receive from the cross sell sponsor. Need to see how this can be done.

Or giving all the cross sell to the affiliate and seeing if we win with more traffic.

With the $5 sites, magic join link sites, we will have a few affiliates. The aim will be to pay them on all upsells and cross sells to sites in our program.

So does that answer your question Pr0?

bringing words like turnover & support in here are for one purpose...."clouding" the truth

the truth is most major programs have 1 or 2 support ho's they pay minimum wage....& turn over (in the form of refunded checks & cb's) are already taken out automatically from the affiliate account

the fact is...even at 70% revshare the owner can afford to pay out on a cross sale....hosting is dirt cheap these days, every amateur asshole with a camera is shooting content....porn has very little cost

why should the small cost be passed onto the affiliate? fuck that, pass it on to the customer....

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Zango

NO, you get 50% of the site sale. That's it.

Unless webmasters start paying 50% of the hosting bills, staff fees, design, code work, office space and so on... then NO! They get their % of the site sale, no more.

Greedy bastards.

Greedy? Hmm... it occurs to me that without the affiliate sending the initial signup there would be no cross-sales.

I see no reason why 50% revshare can't mean 50% of ALL revenue earned from one's referred sales. I would even take 40% if it meant getting a piece of the upsells, the lesser % going towards offsetting the program's overhead.

[Karupted Charles]

We have not offered cross sales as of yet and this is one of the reasons. We are working on a way to integrate them into our affiliate tracking and when we do and can we will offer 65% on both the join and the cross sell (not prechecked as we do not believe in that)

[Fletch XXX]

this is why I started doing my own tours to send traffic to. ;)

[pr0]

Originally Posted by Karupted Charles

We have not offered cross sales as of yet and this is one of the reasons. We are working on a way to integrate them into our affiliate tracking and when we do and can we will offer 65% on both the join and the cross sell (not prechecked as we do not believe in that)

very cool bro

i'll be sure to check out your program when done

[cybermike]

100% yes if the cross sale is within the same program.. otherwise it will be hard to credit

[cybermike]

I know ftvgirls gives credit because I brought it to their attention a year ago.. since they are cross selling a site within their own program its possible.. the option isnt checked off as default though.. they have to do something extra.. its been a while I forgot what that step was.. but it is possible

[tranza]

Originally Posted by cybermike

I know ftvgirls gives credit because I brought it to their attention a year ago.. since they are cross selling a site within their own program its possible.. the option isnt checked off as default though.. they have to do something extra.. its been a while I forgot what that step was.. but it is possible

Really? I've never heard of such thing.

It would be nice to get some input from FTV Cash over here..

[fuzebox]

I always thought programs who make most their money buying xsales had it pretty easy... I mean you don't need tours, galleries, promo content, affiliates, etc... You're basically just piggybacking on top of programs that convert well and already get traffic and sales. Pretty smart really.

[pr0]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

I always thought programs who make most their money buying xsales had it pretty easy... I mean you don't need tours, galleries, promo content, affiliates, etc... You're basically just piggybacking on top of programs that convert well and already get traffic and sales. Pretty smart really.

I guess if you put it that way...slangin crack is pretty smart too

[cybermike]

Originally Posted by tranza

Really? I've never heard of such thing.

It would be nice to get some input from FTV Cash over here..

What input do you want? Goto https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/signup.cgi you see the xsale for lia19? If the surfer checks that off you will get credit for it..

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=...&highlight=ftv heres the thread.. and yeah almost a year

[SmokeyTheBear]

cecash pays on some xsells.

on their "free email" programs i believe they pay per email + 15-20$ per xsell

[hateman]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

this is why I started doing my own tours to send traffic to. ;)

I dont get it.

Why?

[tara99]

Originally Posted by pr0

I guess if you put it that way...slangin crack is pretty smart too

yo pr0 hit me up on icq please

[Snake Doctor]

If a revshare program has cross sales on the join form or upsales in the members area I won't promote them unless I'm getting paid on that revenue as well.

[Snake Doctor]

Cross sales, upsales, and exit consoles by a revshare program are basically stealing.

You're asking me to have faith in your ability to retain members, and meanwhile you're selling them memberships to other sites which makes retention on your site drop.

I could be sending my traffic to a PPS program and getting all of my money upfront and making them take all of the risk on retention etc. If I choose a revshare program I'm sharing the risk with them in exchange for a possibly higher reward.
I'm not willing to share the risk if I can't also share in the reward. There are about 18 bazillion programs out there I can send my traffic to, why would I send it to a program that doesn't want to be fair with the revshare?

[cherrylula]

That's why I like PPS. At least it seems like you are just selling the member, instead of trying to share or split the member. Because you know they probably spam them with other sites you don't get credit for too. Not to mention the upsells in their member area. Or rejoins, for what that is worth. You get nada for those things. I sell them the member, give me my money, they get the customer. But yeah, rebills are nice. However, nothing is forever.

[GigoloMason]

Originally Posted by hateman

Why only Rev Share? Why not PPS too?

Because it's already built into the PPS model.

[StarkReality]

Originally Posted by GigoloMason

Because it's already built into the PPS model.

Well, nothing personal, I don't advertise you program, but with an average value of a member over time, 35$ isn't even half of the what the owner makes...I know there are quite a few programs calculating with about $200 over time, including all xsells, upsells, returning members, etc.

[IllTestYourGirls]

I get my cross sales from the program I am doing best with. Why wouldnt you?

[kane]

Originally Posted by StarkReality

Well, nothing personal, I don't advertise you program, but with an average value of a member over time, 35$ isn't even half of the what the owner makes...I know there are quite a few programs calculating with about $200 over time, including all xsells, upsells, returning members, etc.

It isn't about that, it is about risk Vs reward. If you do a revshare you are accepting some of the risks. If they cancel during the trial period or only rebill once (or even twice) you make less. You need them to join and stay a member about 3 months before you make more than you would per signup. With PPS you don't have the risk. you get paid no matter if they stay a member 5 minutes of 5 years so the company takes more in the long run in order to pay you up front. That is part of the deal of getting a larger sum up front.

What I would love to see is a PPS where they gave you a little bonus if the person did a xsell. Maybe you get $35 per signup, but $45 if they did a xsell.

[Snake Doctor]

Originally Posted by kane

It isn't about that, it is about risk Vs reward. If you do a revshare you are accepting some of the risks. If they cancel during the trial period or only rebill once (or even twice) you make less. You need them to join and stay a member about 3 months before you make more than you would per signup. With PPS you don't have the risk. you get paid no matter if they stay a member 5 minutes of 5 years so the company takes more in the long run in order to pay you up front. That is part of the deal of getting a larger sum up front.

What I would love to see is a PPS where they gave you a little bonus if the person did a xsell. Maybe you get $35 per signup, but $45 if they did a xsell.

xsells don't really make you more money, they just allow you to make more money upfront.
If a person signs up for two or three memberships simultaneously, it's a reach to think that they're going to stay a member of all 3 sites for a long period of time.
Generally speaking for every $1 you make from a cross sell you lose $1 in retention, so it's a wash over time but it allows you to make more money right now as opposed to over time.

This is why it's a ripoff for a revshare program to have xsells on the signup page and why you should never promote a revshare program that has them.

[charlie g]

Originally Posted by Zango

NO, you get 50% of the site sale. That's it.

Unless webmasters start paying 50% of the hosting bills, staff fees, design, code work, office space and so on... then NO! They get their % of the site sale, no more.

Greedy bastards.

First, ZANGO sucks ASSSSSSS!

Second, if a site makes any money from the use of "affilite" traffic then they should split the revenue from that "referral". If a program can't live on a 50% split then they should LOWER their commission to make money and honor the "partnership". And the bullshit about hosting bills and expenses is not a one way street. Many programs make their money not by selling "their" product, but whoring the FREE traffic to other programs. It's a disingenuous system that is played at some level by all programs.

There is room for a good selling program that treats it's affiliates as true partners and not CUSTOMERS. Eventually a smart company will change the way the industry operates. The small time traffic whores will be made to fucking dig ditches because they can't make a program that sells.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

It would be worth a try.
There could still be profit in it.

[AnneT]

Not really. But there's nothing wrong with publicly pressuring them not to ;)

[kane]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

xsells don't really make you more money, they just allow you to make more money upfront.
If a person signs up for two or three memberships simultaneously, it's a reach to think that they're going to stay a member of all 3 sites for a long period of time.
Generally speaking for every $1 you make from a cross sell you lose $1 in retention, so it's a wash over time but it allows you to make more money right now as opposed to over time.

This is why it's a ripoff for a revshare program to have xsells on the signup page and why you should never promote a revshare program that has them.

yep that is true. If it is revshare they should be focusing on keeping members for the long term, not making as much as they can up front.

[Zango]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Greedy? Hmm... it occurs to me that without the affiliate sending the initial signup there would be no cross-sales.

I see no reason why 50% revshare can't mean 50% of ALL revenue earned from one's referred sales. I would even take 40% if it meant getting a piece of the upsells, the lesser % going towards offsetting the program's overhead.

Many well set programs have their own traffic sources and really don't need other webmasters. It's just extra money, and to be honest they are more hassle then they are worth sometimes. NOT ALL OF THEM, but the majority. Maybe 10% of them rock out, the rest... ehh.

There will come a day SOON when programs stop taking any old webmaster, or any at all.

Here is the other problem. Webmasters are greedy. Not the smart ones, but lets be honest, most of you are not. A small % are, and those are the ones worth working with on a topic such as this. If we pay 50% of EVERYTHING, it is only a matter of time before someone wants 60%, or Silver Cash starts paying 80% of everything. It would happen sure as the sun is gonna rise. Meaning less profits for the programs who still have to pay for content, hosting, staff, design, legal and marketing. That amounts to WAAAAAY more than any of your traffic sources could bring us.

We are all in this to profit. We can profit with or without 90% of you and some programs can do it without you at all. To keep giving away more and more and more is just shooting program owners in the foot.

THE SOLUTION

For all of you who want this to happen. Man up and start your own program.

Until then, promote a program or don't. There are 100000 webmasters behind you who will gladly do so in your place, even if that company is a known thief, crook or scammer.

You ever see customer service in China? There is none. That is because there are a million Chinese standing behind you waiting to buy what it is you have. The same applies to this industry. Not that I'm proud of that, but that is the way it is. We all collectively built it that way and now we all have to deal with it.

[RedShoe]

The average profit of a program owner is a little more than $2 a sale.

Biller takes 14% right off the top.
affiliate takes 50%
site partner takes 50% of what's left.
The 2 program operators put away 15% for expenses and the remainder is divided between them. You're looking at a little more than 2 hundred pennies per sale.

And now affiliates want 50% of the cross sales too?

In the end the affiliates always make more.

Oh and for the record.. Amazon.com pays "UP TO 10%" on sales to affiliates.
Barnes and Noble pays "up to 8.5"

Adult affiliates get 50% and want more.

I work in this industry, I love this industry, I love my affiliates.. but sometimes.. damn.

Pr0 weren't you making like 2 mil a year a few years ago? (or was that quiet?... for some reason I always get you 2 confused with each other)


For as much as I'd love to split that with you... you are already getting 6 times more than me. And not every
new member buys a cross sale or an upsell.


oh and for the record, we do not offer pre checked cross sales.

[Zango]

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

There are about 18 bazillion programs out there I can send my traffic to, why would I send it to a program that doesn't want to be fair with the revshare?

On the flip side, there are 10000 bazillion webmasters out there (from all over the world) that programs can take traffic from. Why would they want to take your traffic and have to deal with shit like this?

Start your own program, use the PPS model or put a sock in it and be happy with your percentage. You can't have it all.