There is a large part of the global warming/climate change crowd that has become ignorant and dogmatic - it's like a religion now. This change happened slowly as large corporations began using "green" marketing, and thus recruited the brainless masses to be "eco-warriors" - indoctornated them with partial truths, flat-out misinformation and propoganda - to save the world through consumption. Save the environment by buying cars and spending more money on environmentally friendly consumer goods. Does anyone else remember the 1980s? Right around 1985 - 1989 to be exact. The environment was really popular back then, our big problems were CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons - bad for the ozone layer.. omgrotflbbq!!!!!1111 there's a hole in teh ozones!!), acid raid (caused by particulate pollution from cars and industry) and rainforest deforestation. There was a big marketing push back then too, Greenpeace had great recruitment back then, "CFC free" aerosols, the WWF, buy an acre of rainforest.. we did school projects on it, etc, etc.. good times.

Anyway, there is no longer intelligent debate, there is just tribalism - you are either a devoted follower if or a heretic. If you dare question global warming or the motivations of its most ardent supporters, you are cast as "having your head in the sand" or "ignoring the problem". The irony and hypocrisy is so thick it's barely tolerable. In 5 years we'll be too busy dealing with some other problem, the "green" marketing will have lost its ability to produce "green", the housing market will be recovered... it'll be 1995 again and no one will give two shits about global warming, the environment, etc..

http://http://www.interet-general.in...s-Smog-1-2.jpg

Man this is bad!!

You have to look past 10 years, As Steve pointed about above, About 20-25 years ago we had this same thing with the ozone and acid rains. In the 1970's cooling was an issue, thought that it might kill off poor nations, the media played it as a coming ice age and in the 70's, 80's, and 1991 - it was thought that pollution cooled the earth, not warmed it.

Global Warming isn't in question, Global Warming happens, we get cold and hot, not over 10 years but over 100's and 1000's of years. The question was, did Humans contribute to Global Warming over the last 100 years, which has been found to not be true.

The Ice Melting, has a scientific explanation, and it has nothing to do with Humans and nothing Humans can do will stop it. Earth, with Humans on it has been covered in Ice and it has also had no ice, at all. Neither of which had anything to do with Humans.

The entire Human Global Warming and going Green, is nothing more than about making the big Greens from people that by into the hype. And tons of people are buying into the hype.

As I said, I'm for keeping the Planet clean and doing as little as possible to damage it, but not because of warm/cold patterns. But because of what it does to us Humans directly, which is the only effect 'we' have on this planet.

i read the art, 2x, thx for the link

i guess not everyone knows what global warming is.

fyi- global warming is the ave temp of near earth atmosphere and oceans.

solar variation (sun spots) do NOT contribute an significant impact to global warming, research has shown.



this thread=fail

The poles are shifting.

Really? The solar cycle has no effect on the earth's climate? I would love to read the research that shows this, im too lazy to use google. Seems like, the big giant ball of nuclear fire that causes all our seasons, etc might have some effect on the climate, but shit i'm no meteorologist / climatologist / astrophysicist.

Watched a great documentary on this actually, on changes in the Earth's magnetic field.. and how it flip-flops like every 100,000 years or something.

It's interesting how all of human knowledge has been amassed in like 0.0001% of the earth's existence, our frame of reference is so scientifcally insignificant it's laughable. Yet, we think we have it allll figured out.. lolz

I found this here

That change appears to be too small to significantly affect global average temperatures in the lower atmosphere. But the ebb and flow of solar radiation can heat and cool the stratosphere enough to change its circulation patterns, which may have significant impacts on regional climate. In the case of the Little Ice Age, for example, Europe and North America felt the temperature drop most strongly.

The Sun may have other, more subtle climate impacts. Some researchers speculate that energy from the Sun may influence global temperatures indirectly by affecting the formation of clouds. Others speculate that plant growth, which appears to vary during solar cycles, may respond to variations in solar energy.

Which suggest that solar cycles don't affect lower atmospheric temperatures. But, ocean / ground level temps are a local variable, and it does make sense that a higher-level change say in the statosphere could indirectly affect the variables used to measure so-called "global warming". The earth's climate is a complex system as I understand it - hence why it takes so much computing power to try and model it... and what makes it so unpredictable. It maybe in fact be a chaotic system.. where predicting the localized/specific changes on a local level when given a global change.. is next to impossible.

Cool.. We don't have to worry about global warming anymore.. The sun is going to fix it for us.. Yay!

Funny thing you say that. I live in central Illinois and we haven't reached 100 degrees yet this year been a pretty mild summer so far. Usually we've had a couple 100 degree days by now and it's almost August.

Gary

this is interesting.. almost like it's adapting to what the planet needs

What we seem to be getting lately is symantics issues. I believe in global warming, but for me the jury is still out on whether HUMANS have contributed in some statistically significant way. To me it's not "global warming versus natural cycle", it's "human activity CAUSING warming (y/n)".

No doubt slashing rain forests has some negative effect simply because less trees = less CO2 processed by trees. I dont need more info on that particular aspect to decide that more living trees = better for everyone.

Just like I dont need more info to decide that less greenhouse gasses released directly into the atmosphere by factories and power plants in the world = better for everyone.

Forget the forest, just look at the trees in this case.

:disgust

I gotta question here

what exactly is the ideal temperature for earth?

if scientists cant agree on that how the fuck are they going to tell me that the earth is warming? or cooling?

The earth 's climate is cyclical, there once were orange groves in south GA, S GA is now way too cool to grow orange trees.

I honestly think we have way more important problems at hand than "global warming" there are too many factors involved to determine if we have any effect and all and even whther its bad or good.
Theres shit out there could wipe out civilization here in the blink of an eye...dont buy it? ask the dinosaurs LOL

No one can deny the correlations. There is a strong correlation between human industrual activiy and climate / weather fluctuations. Unfortunately, there was climate volatility in the pre-industrial world - how is that explained? What is the magnitude of the effect of human activity on the system? Are there factors whose effect on the system is many orders of magnitude greater than human activity?

It's like, say you have a big swimming pool that is the earth's climate. There is a GIANT drain in the bottom of the pool. The change in the system is the change in water level. So what is the human activity? is it equivalent to poking tiny pinholes in the liner? causing a change, measurable but insignificant?? I mean, if there is 1 pinhole in the liner.. it is true that the water level is decreasing, however small the change. But what about the drain?? Maybe changes in solar activity is equivalent to opening the GIANT drain in the pool, causing a rapid and massive drop in the water level.. or maybe it IS true that human activity adds another giant drain to the pool, or makes the big drain significantly larger. The fact of the matter is, I don't think we really know what the causal relationship is.

Yeah Schwinn has the best peddles.

Whether you believe in global warming or not isn't the issue for me. In my opinion it can't hurt to change one's lifestyle a little and become greener. I haven't driven a motor vehicle of any kind to get to work in 18 years. I've replaced several bulbs in my home with the longer-lasting more energy efficient ones, I installed water displacers in the backs of the toilet tanks many years ago in my house and rental property, I use an electric mower, have had the house insulated inside and out, I recycle, and I am walking and biking now more than ever. It's a start anyway, but I'm sure I am greener than most.

The question is, how green are you?

Yeah, I dont think we can say one way or the other. Just do whatever we can if we want.

I've also had CFL's since before they were popular. In 77 when my family moved we bought a black n decker electric mower. Never ran over the cord even once. Thing never died either, and always started. Flip a switch, mower's on. Half the noise too. It's hard to imagine (for me) that gasoline powered 2 stroke engines for "home use" have not been banned, but hey thats just me. I still think that "leaf blower" is just another name for "you annoying piece of shit, turn that fucking gas sucking smelly pollution maker off and try a rake unless you prefer my foot in your ass". but thats just me.

:winkwink:

YOU ARE SO WRONG! :pimp

No reason to show disgust. Even today, let alone just before the little Ice Age happened, volcanoes polluted the earth far more than humans ever can or will. Add in the oceans, which do the same thing every day, far beating humans. All the natural crap we burn and use, well the earth does the exact same thing with it, at much much much more massive levels, daily.

We are hurting, humans... not earth. I'm all for keeping the earth and air clean, but for the safety of human life, not for the boiling rock that can fart methane gas at a level so large than all life would die the next time someone light a smoke.

Some far greater things going on with earth, the sun, the universe, than the ants that like to think they running the show.

I completely agree. It often gets lost in the arguing and name calling that most debates degrade into that just because you might question global warming doesn't make you anti-green. It's a net positive when you conserve energy / resources in any way possible - whether it be electricity, gasoline, water, etc.

I'm sick to death of hearing about it to be honest.

It all seems like just another way of getting money out of us by adding more 'green' taxes onto things...

in your1st post you accuse people of being sheeple- *buying* the global warming marketing strategy.

yet, the 2nd post you state you are basically green and above namecalling/arguing


non sequitur

And the amount of money I've saved is astronomical. 18 years of not driving a car to work = huge dollars.

15 years of water saving methods
And now that the house is fully insulated the savings on heat every year is crazy.

I'm loving this go green thing.

Can't really argue with you there as Schwinn is about 8 years older than H-D, and there is probably a good chance that they actually had Schwinn provide the peddles.

http://216.169.150.18/webmodules/art...les/311-HD.jpg

Never really investigated the peddle manufacturer before.

You really think that is the "green" solution?

Actually over a diesel mower probably. Probably the greenest would be like my grandfather had, the wheels with the blades that you pushed for it cut. That was a workout. lol

I did not know they even made a diesel lawn mower, had to Google it.

You must be a lot younger than I thought if your grandfather had a push mower and not your dad.

So environmental consciousness cannot exist mutually exclusive of green marketing? You're trying to point out an inconsistency, yet there isn't one.

If I buy a CF lightbulb that a) lasts longer than a filament bulb and b) saves me money, that's a little different that buying a prius. I never claimed to be "green" - I drive a car with a 5.7L engine for example - what I said what that making environmental choices that reduce energy use have a net positive effect on both the environment and your pocketbook. Neither of which have anything to do with global warming / climate change.

Global Warming has become a political term, and most people like things dumbed down as much as possible, they want to know the "package" they are dealing with when talking to someone. It becomes troublesome when a person can be skeptical of global warming and yet environmentally conscious, since most people just "buy-in" to the whole lot.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
I agree on most thing you stated, and I am wondered by your positive green behavior.

You all must know its not just about global warming, this issue is much more complex. The root of the problem is the huge increase of greenhouse gas emissions lately. Did you know that WATER is a top greenhouse gas? The effect of global warming is desertification. The effect of devastating the jungles are the same. The population of Earth is growing. It needs more food and clean water. More desert: fewer places to plant crops. Global warming should be a normal process but the human activity is boosting it for sure and this can be very nasty in like 20 years from now.

If anyone is leaving adult ever, I suggest to invest in food or water industry because of the growing need is already increasing the prices and it will continue steadily for a while.

We can argue some more but for me its very simple:
Do you want your kids to grow up and see forests and nice green environment or you don't care and shit into their future by polluting the planet to death?

A lot of dutch webmasters here, they must know its no joke, they have to be top-notch in water management to keep the water out with exceptional dams and whatever? One-third of NL was under was a century ago [these are now called "polder areas"]? Imo even the low chance of getting flooded could make 60% of the dutch people shit their pants : if water is coming inside 60% of them have to move, because they live under the sea level :P

If you're interested and don't know about this, read about Kyoto Protocol.

Besides the food and water problem we also face energy addiction problems. Tank gas or use any kind of energy at home or anywhere is most likely related to pollution: producing the energy the "usual way" comes with different kind of pollutions: we have to take care of nuclear waste of the nuclear plants and energy made of coal is the cheapest but most polluting form of energy source. China does coal mining and most of their energy is made of coal. When you mine coal, you have to mine it when its dry, therefore you need to install tons of waterpumps near that zone, and they are sucking out the pure and clean water seriously damaging the stocks (right now in Kuwait the clean water is more expensive than petrol). Plus pumping the water out of a huge zone for 20-40 years (the lifetime of a coal mine) makes all green areas to run dry as well [haha I was researching this exactly in NL in 2005 as an ERASMUS student :) ].

Again, you can give a fuck, but if you care at least a bit please a bit more environment friendly. If you don't know whats that take a day out and eat some mushrooms outside in the summer sun in a park for example. It will convert you for sure ;)

you got to be kidding me?

"green-ER"

As in greener than gas. And yes, it's quite economical. And as a side bonus, mine just happens to be whisper quiet. No pissed off nieghbors.

And no, I'm not going to quibble over it. The expert assessment guy from the gov't I had to the house twice last year when I did my insulating also said electric is greener than a gas mower.

Obviously the best is a push mower. I'm not about to go that green with the lawn car. I use manual hedge clippers, that's as far as I'm willing to take it, for now.

What kind of mower do you use?

They still make brand spanking new push mowers, including the superior cutting "reel" style :thumbsup

An electric mower is "better" than a gas one IMHO because it doesnt pollute directly where you live, and the noise level is so much more tolerable. Just pretending the fuel for gas and electric was exactly the same, there are still advantages to using the electric one, even if it's a plug-in and not a rechargeable.

Of course, if you have a kid and a push mower, you're all set :1orglaugh

Actuallyyyyy.... while I was outside just now mowing my grass with my whisper quiet electric, the elderly neighbor lady who can barely lift a fly was out with her new push mower, one of those new ones. She was cutting that grass pretty easily it looked to me.

I think those things have come a long way since back in ancient times when we were kids.

i do see what you are saying now.

i also believe that the current green marketing trend is opposite of how you say, except for the fact that consumers need to be told what to buy and they do go buy it when they are told.

american car manufacturers were poised to go beyond 2010 with SUVs for instance, as a result of all the green speak, many marques have canceled plans for future SUV models, slowed/halted production on current ones and have shifted manufacturing AND marketing to address the new need for green that consumers have.

i see the hypocrisy, hell, i've started referring to my neighborchick as the single serving granola girl. she yaps about green shit while she's drinking assembly line green tea from a small plastic bottle.:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

You make some good points. But don't underestimate the destruction of an army of carpenter ants or termites on your wooden home.

I grew up with 2 steel mills and a coal plant in my town, right on the Ohio river. Everyone who lives there knows how terrible the water is in that river is and also how terrible the air smells.

While human pollution does not really affect the overall health of the earth, it does have an effect on the extremely fragile environmental conditions that humans need to live.

Honestly, it should be common knowledge that humans are directly affecting the Earth's environmental conditions. For a lot of people, you just have to look out your window to realize it.

There's a reason that you don't run your car inside with the garage door closed. Population increases everyday and vegetation decreases to make room for housing and stuff, which is effectively making your garage smaller and your exhaust pipe bigger.

You have them using push mowers I presume? :D

The rest of what you said I basically agree with, but for the above portion I think it has less to do with global warming and more to do with the price of gas of late. When it used to cost $60 to fill up the SUV and now it's $120, a lot of people are no longer interested in buying another one, and are having trouble selling the one they have. One guy I know has a big diesel 3/4 ton and can't sell it for enough to cover what he still owes on it.


Regarding the chick that lives next door to you, if she's that dumb AND hot.... then it's okay. :winkwink:

switchblades