Biz Question - Job Duties - GoFuckYourself.com

ScareCrowe · 07-16-2008, 10:20 AM

I am having a debate with someone about whom should be made responsible for HTML design.
We can't agree with each other when we talk about it, so maybe hearing what everyone else thinks about it might finally put this debate to rest, or so I am hoping ;)

Here is my question:

You have at your disposal 2 employees: one is a application programmer (AP), and the other is a graphic designer (GD).
You want to launch a site, so you will need your pages designed and you will need scripts coded to run the site.
Your graphic designer has designed the layout with Photoshop in PSD format.

Which employee will you assign to convert/slice the PSD into a HTML document/template?

My position is that the GD should be submitting the PSD in HTML format, and the AP should be taking that HTML and applying the application code to the page to end up with the final product.

The GD's position is that converting/slicing to HTML format is coding work, not graphical work, and as such fall under the responsibility of the AP.

Arrgh, what are we going to do!!!???!!!

~zombiegirl~ · 07-16-2008, 10:25 AM

it should be the graphic designers job. he's already made it on photoshop so it only takes a moment to do the rest

JamesK · 07-16-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~zombiegirl~

it should be the graphic designers job. he's already made it on photoshop so it only takes a moment to do the rest

A graphic designer should not necessarily have those skills. A webdesigner however should. I say the programmer has to do it, cause it leans more towards his profession.

JamesK · 07-16-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

The GD's position is that converting/slicing to HTML format is coding work, not graphical work, and as such fall under the responsibility of the AP.

However I think that's nonsense. I think the graphic designer could at least SLICE and save the images. The coder should not have to start Photoshop.

NetwErk GUrl · 07-16-2008, 10:31 AM

In our offices, for the most part, our graphic designers do just that. They design. Coding of any sort is left to the coders. Many of our graphic designers have the skills to convert their work further, but it isn't part of their job responsibility or their expertise.

You can do it however you want, though, as they are both your employees.

ScareCrowe · 07-16-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesK

A graphic designer should not necessarily have those skills. A webdesigner however should. I say the programmer has to do it, cause it leans more towards his profession.

True, I can see how some GD would not have that knowledge, however, that is also true of the AP! I think that the AP falls within the scope of web design just as the GD does.

IMHO, the AP should be taking care of the code that actually runs the site. Stuff like accessing and querying the database, designing classes and modules to handle user authentication, etc etc, stuff that the end user will never ever see, because there isn't any type of visual for the work the AP does. I like the analogy that if we ran Ford Motors, the GD would design the cars, and the AP would design the engine.

Another point I'd like to bring up is the fact that if the GD is truly not responsible for converting PSD to HTML, then when I buy a website template from someone here off GDY or some website somewhere, I should expect to receive a PSD, not a HTML page!

JamesK · 07-16-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

True, I can see how some GD would not have that knowledge, however, that is also true of the AP! I think that the AP falls within the scope of web design just as the GD does.

IMHO, the AP should be taking care of the code that actually runs the site. Stuff like accessing and querying the database, designing classes and modules to handle user authentication, etc etc, stuff that the end user will never ever see, because there isn't any type of visual for the work the AP does. I like the analogy that if we ran Ford Motors, the GD would design the cars, and the AP would design the engine.

Another point I'd like to bring up is the fact that if the GD is truly not responsible for converting PSD to HTML, then when I buy a website template from someone here off GDY or some website somewhere, I should expect to receive a PSD, not a HTML page!

That's because most designers here are webdesigners and promote theirselves as webdesigners. There are graphic designers who for example just do typography, print work, illustrations etc. I don't think people should automaticly assume they can create a fully functional website in valid HTML/CSS. Although it's a big plus if they can

ScareCrowe · 07-16-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesK

That's because most designers here are webdesigners and promote theirselves as webdesigners. There are graphic designers who for example just do typography, print work etc. I don't think people should automaticly assume they can create a fully functional website in valid HTML/CSS. Although it's a big plus if they can

Would if affect your position if I made you aware that the GD in this case also does for-profit freelance web design on the side? ( The whole gig, PSD design, conversion/slicing and implementation )

JamesK · 07-16-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Would if affect your position if I made you aware that the GD in this case also does for-profit freelance web design on the side? ( The whole gig, PSD design, conversion/slicing and implementation )

If that's the case and if he was recruited for that, I'd fully agree to let him do the job

Mullett · 07-16-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Would if affect your position if I made you aware that the GD in this case also does for-profit freelance web design on the side? ( The whole gig, PSD design, conversion/slicing and implementation )

Then it is his job!

Sly · 07-16-2008, 11:24 AM

I think that if these are your employees, you should be able to tell them that you need a project done and they should be able to work together to make that happen. If they are not able to work together, then you must assign one of them the jobs... and at that point, I think you have bigger problems.

I've heard of mainstream design firms where they have different departments doing each task... like one department does design and another department converts it to HTML. I can certainly see the advantage of breaking this type of thing down into departments, but also think that a "graphic designer" should be able to chop their designs into HTML... because to me, proper HTML also plays a role in designing a website.

ScareCrowe · 07-16-2008, 12:03 PM

Thanks everyone for your input!
The truth of the matter is that I am the AP, and I will probably catch some hell from the GD for making this thread! We already know our perspective on it, but I wanted to hear what other webmasters considered would fall under graphic design or application design.

It really is not going to have any bearing 'real-world', as my HTML and CSS skills are stronger than the GD's, so regardless of who comes out on top in this debate, I will still be the one converting full-page pictures to css layouts! ;) I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only person alive who thought the conversion task should be on the designer.

MarcDigital · 07-30-2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesK

A graphic designer should not necessarily have those skills. A webdesigner however should. I say the programmer has to do it, cause it leans more towards his profession.

This is true.

ladida · 07-30-2008, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

Thanks everyone for your input!
The truth of the matter is that I am the AP, and I will probably catch some hell from the GD for making this thread!

I'd be more worried that you'd catch hell from your boss. You shouldn't bring inside problems to the boards unless the owner agrees. Plus, it makes him look a bit... incompetent.

Why · 07-30-2008, 07:10 AM

i think the designer should be the one slicing the designs and outputting at least simple html that the coder can clean and hack up if necessary. i do agree with the statement that a 'graphic designer' doesnt necessarily need to know ANY code, that is why you hire 'web designers' instead of 'graphic designers' IMHO a web designer should know graphic design and web layout, simple code(html, css, light php), etc.

however.... if the design is going into something rather intesnse codewise(large templating systems, etc) it might be helpful for them to at the minimum work together to meet certain requirements of the design that the coder might have, specific image sizes, etc.

Barefootsies · 07-30-2008, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~zombiegirl~

it should be the graphic designers job. he's already made it on photoshop so it only takes a moment to do the rest

tranza · 07-30-2008, 08:15 AM

This is a problem!

JamesK · 07-30-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranza

This is a problem!

No, it's an old thread.

Adult Creative Labs · 07-30-2008, 11:16 AM

It is a gray area.

I used to work at an affiliate program where the AP did only stuff that queries the DB, etc. while the designer sliced and html'd the design.

Our designers slice and code into HTML. As someone said, the AP shouldn't have to touch Photoshop.

GrouchyAdmin · 07-30-2008, 11:43 AM

A lot of graphic designers balk at it, because they don't even know what HTML looks like. They click and drag in Dreamweaver until it's pretty, then it goes to the magical internet fairys to make it work. I don't let them do that. If they absolutely have NO knowledge, well, that's one thing. If they're just lazy and standoffish, that's another.

geeknik · 07-30-2008, 11:44 AM

Hire a temporary worker to slice the PSD into HTML.

07-16-2008, 10:20 AM	#1
ScareCrowe Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Crapass Illinois Posts: 15	Biz Question - Job Duties I am having a debate with someone about whom should be made responsible for HTML design. We can't agree with each other when we talk about it, so maybe hearing what everyone else thinks about it might finally put this debate to rest, or so I am hoping ;) Here is my question: You have at your disposal 2 employees: one is a application programmer (AP), and the other is a graphic designer (GD). You want to launch a site, so you will need your pages designed and you will need scripts coded to run the site. Your graphic designer has designed the layout with Photoshop in PSD format. Which employee will you assign to convert/slice the PSD into a HTML document/template? My position is that the GD should be submitting the PSD in HTML format, and the AP should be taking that HTML and applying the application code to the page to end up with the final product. The GD's position is that converting/slicing to HTML format is coding work, not graphical work, and as such fall under the responsibility of the AP. Arrgh, what are we going to do!!!???!!! __________________ http://TheWetPeach.com http://MelissaMatters.com http://WetPeachCash.com http://CorinRiggsOnline.com

07-16-2008, 10:25 AM	#2
~zombiegirl~ Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 9-11 saved my life Posts: 301	it should be the graphic designers job. he's already made it on photoshop so it only takes a moment to do the rest __________________ Peeing, Adult Babies, ABDL Mommies, Cameltoe, Footfetish

07-16-2008, 10:31 AM	#5
NetwErk GUrl Here to wErk Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 550	In our offices, for the most part, our graphic designers do just that. They design. Coding of any sort is left to the coders. Many of our graphic designers have the skills to convert their work further, but it isn't part of their job responsibility or their expertise. You can do it however you want, though, as they are both your employees. __________________ Ananda Sisk - Client Relations RocketGate Primary for high volume merchants across the industry icq: 301-253-746 --- mobile: 1.916.342.4386 --- skype: ananda.sisk --- mail: [email protected]

07-16-2008, 11:24 AM	#11
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,344	I think that if these are your employees, you should be able to tell them that you need a project done and they should be able to work together to make that happen. If they are not able to work together, then you must assign one of them the jobs... and at that point, I think you have bigger problems. I've heard of mainstream design firms where they have different departments doing each task... like one department does design and another department converts it to HTML. I can certainly see the advantage of breaking this type of thing down into departments, but also think that a "graphic designer" should be able to chop their designs into HTML... because to me, proper HTML also plays a role in designing a website. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

07-16-2008, 12:03 PM	#12
ScareCrowe Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Crapass Illinois Posts: 15	Thanks everyone for your input! The truth of the matter is that I am the AP, and I will probably catch some hell from the GD for making this thread! We already know our perspective on it, but I wanted to hear what other webmasters considered would fall under graphic design or application design. It really is not going to have any bearing 'real-world', as my HTML and CSS skills are stronger than the GD's, so regardless of who comes out on top in this debate, I will still be the one converting full-page pictures to css layouts! ;) I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only person alive who thought the conversion task should be on the designer. __________________ http://TheWetPeach.com http://MelissaMatters.com http://WetPeachCash.com http://CorinRiggsOnline.com

07-30-2008, 07:10 AM	#15
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	i think the designer should be the one slicing the designs and outputting at least simple html that the coder can clean and hack up if necessary. i do agree with the statement that a 'graphic designer' doesnt necessarily need to know ANY code, that is why you hire 'web designers' instead of 'graphic designers' IMHO a web designer should know graphic design and web layout, simple code(html, css, light php), etc. however.... if the design is going into something rather intesnse codewise(large templating systems, etc) it might be helpful for them to at the minimum work together to meet certain requirements of the design that the coder might have, specific image sizes, etc.

07-30-2008, 08:15 AM	#17
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	This is a problem! __________________ I'm just a newbie.

07-30-2008, 11:16 AM	#19
Adult Creative Labs Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Global Posts: 221	It is a gray area. I used to work at an affiliate program where the AP did only stuff that queries the DB, etc. while the designer sliced and html'd the design. Our designers slice and code into HTML. As someone said, the AP shouldn't have to touch Photoshop. __________________ . ICQ: 498299527 Email: sales -at- adultcreativelabs.com

07-30-2008, 11:43 AM	#20
GrouchyAdmin Now choke yourself! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,085	A lot of graphic designers balk at it, because they don't even know what HTML looks like. They click and drag in Dreamweaver until it's pretty, then it goes to the magical internet fairys to make it work. I don't let them do that. If they absolutely have NO knowledge, well, that's one thing. If they're just lazy and standoffish, that's another. __________________ AIM: GrouchyGfy

07-30-2008, 11:44 AM	#21
geeknik l337 h4x0r!#% Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: OKC, OK, USA Posts: 8,364	Hire a temporary worker to slice the PSD into HTML. __________________ hacker 4 hire.