Ok brain, riddle me this. It takes less than a minute to download a full length high quality video with DSL or Cable ISP's, so what is fiber optic going to change?

You stating that members dont want to download is foolish and quite the ignorant statement. People that own programs or have sites that do 100+ sales a week know the shit your talking proves how green you are. Nobody needs to change over their whole biz model because some scums want to give away movies for free. If you knew a thing about collectors you would know that STREAMING Blows. Rebills are huge for people who make sales in the industry and if people who actually make sales thought that was the solution your point would be proven by people moving over to it.

What difference is it who i am, if its obvious to everyone here that I am right and you are wrong?

i think sites like videobox.com and the like that use flash-based video would disagree with you

which goes to the point of my post "know thy customer". if your customer is demanding downlaodable video, then u have to give it to them.

youtube and the rest of the tube sites all use flash.. so porn consumers are learning that flash is ok, since you can watch video right away without download.

that depends on how you are setup.

if you are just streaming .FLV files through apache, then there is a loading issue.. but that's not different than people who are streaming .WMV files through apache.

for higher throughput, you would use windows media server for .WMV, and use Flash server (or wowza, red5, etc) for .FLV that are tuned to handle high volumes

For those with high b/w issues, check out MojoHost.. great b/w pricing and solutions for flash streaming.


Fight the new tricks!

For those that haven't checked out videobox.com they offer WMV and Flash streaming (as well as some other formats). ElevatedX CMS does the multi-conversions in it and i have seen other sites do the same with multi-formats (that includes flash streaming and downloadable)

Videobox lets you watch 3 streams for free.. and what a kickass flash player they have with the timeline thumbnails so you can see whats coming up.

Fight the innovations!

I make more than most and none of my sites has an alexa rank under 150,000...

But I think clips4sale would agree with me.

Good one.

Then you are not selling paysite memberships.

their business model is based on selling a video clip that you can play on your computer, like someone who buys a physical dvd.

can u name one site that sells an individual flash clip? i think not....

putting aside your bad example.... if a business, like yours, needs to have downloadable video, then that is what you do. other businesses can run hybrid that has both, and others do strictly flash.

i didn't say all sites had to be flash.. i said it was the "rage".. because many people are adopting flash video, whether exclusively or as an additional medium.

every business is different.... some make the mistake that if it works great for them, then that's the only way to do things... or vice versa.... there is no black and white, and the benefit that I have is being able to talk to many different companies to see how many are doing things to gain my observations.

So i don't need to run an actual porn site to be able to talk about porn sites as you keep trying to throw back in my face.

When I post up, I am sharing my observations that span across many companies and many years of observations.

Anyone here that offers both streaming flash and downloadable WMV that can provide some stats as to what percentage is doing better? Click/download stats may show that people are watching the flash video for previewing the clips and then downloading the WMV to save ... i bet the consumers are liking this approach, as it saves them lots of time from having to download the full clip.

Thumbnail previews like the videobox player are very nice for user satisfaction since you know where to fast forward to .. instead of just moving the marker over and maybe missing something.

for those that use .WMV streaming that don't allow for fast forward.. that's gotta be frustrating for the members...

I see alot of things done by sites that just aren't helping the member's experience. Its all about getting the rebills.. which is important, but to get the rebill you have to provide fresh content, ease of use, and value for the money spent. Those playing the numbers game are few and far between..


Fight the customer!

please show me in this thread where I questioned the value of your opinion? Show me in 2008 where I said that? But I do find funny what guys who have experience their opinions are disguarded but if someones lack of experience is bought up its like not playing fair. lol

i hear ya... what works for some people may not work for others.. i see the big mistake ppl are making that just because they are successful, they can tell others how to do things.

luck has a huge factor for many ppl's success. so i am weary of anyone shooting from the lip


Fight the monkey see, monkey do!

Tony Ill wave any fee to help you get it going, and its not nearly as expensive as you think for the cdn. Hell Ill even help you encode to h264. You know Im a good guy. Just let me know. Phase it in slowly. Add a new section and put all streaming there. Slowly phase out downloads as you go. :2 cents:

I know you're a good guy, even though you sometimes annoy the shit out of me. lol When we meet in Atl lets talk. :)

Less than a minute? Are you still selling 320x240 video downloads? The industry is swinging towards a larger format of video. I do 480p and 720p streaming in our members areas. Id love to see someone download a 25 minute scene at 1280x720 res which a .wmv would be quite large in 1 minute (using a VC1 coded would help that, but still would be quite large). Are you sure you have a paysite or anysites? You talk and talk, but show 0 proof. Or do you still segment your vids into 3 minute clips at 320x240 like they did back in 1999 and 2000?

Listen if you are going to cite experience, then back it up. Otherwise you have no dog in this fight.

LOL @ the Newb.

You know we will hehe. :winkwink:

Again put up what your program or sites are, or gtfo. :1orglaugh

Ok can ANYONE here attest for the experience of NotOldSchool? Anyone care to step forward?

Ok just went to Videobox I am downloading a 21 minute long scene at 640x480 .wmv at over 600KB/sec How long do you think it will take?

Been running 3 minutes so far and says 15 minute remaining. I am still currently in the minority with how fast my speed is. Im taking all they can send me and its going to take 18 to 20 minutes to finish. Now I can sit here with my pecker in my hand waiting OR I can use their Flash 3 media server and start watching withing say 2 seconds, scrub anywhere in the video and watch whenever I want. Use Frame preview and find the part I want to see. In the meantime I probably will only use up maybe 50 to 100MB of their bandwidth rather than 604MB. H264 will cut that size in half. Instant action. This is a no brainer.

VIDEOBOX.COM do any of you post here? Please give us some stats on streaming vs download percentages. Thanks. :winkwink:

I think the truth is that while not offering downloads would hurt business, sales, and rebills, having the stuff to download may not even be used, but is nice to have if you wanted to do that.

When you take something away or don't offer it, that just adds negative skew to their opinion, which helps form the decision to buy or move on.

Enjoying the debate on whether or not offering downloads is a good thing. I think it would be better to just have streaming content but it's a little late for that path.

Another bad thing about allowing downloads: let's say you have a $1.00 3 day trial on your paysite. Someone can signup and download as much as possible in 3 days and wank it for the next few months or whatever. So some people are not just giving away ALL their content for the $30/mo fee, they're giving it away for $1.00!! Not to mention the $20-$50 (or :gasp: $100 promo) you sent an affiliate for that $1 trial

Yup I agree totally, and have brought up the trials in the past. Some do limit the content they can download, but overall they do not.

some programs are offering limited access for the trial period.. where you can access limited number of videos/photos per section.

requires some backend programming and such for this, but makes sense, rather than offering your whole site for such a small amount.

the whole of a trial, is for someone to see that there really is good stuff inside, beyond what the tour says.



Fight the leechers!

while everyone is arguing here, i just put 75 new clips up on my tube site.... :thumbsup

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't really have a side in this as it doesn't effect me as much not being a paysite owner. But my question is for those who are for the streaming/flash.

It would seem to me that if you have unique content, perhaps a solo girl or a site that is just different from what else is out there (some of the reality type stuff or a particular fetish), you wouldn't have a problem doing this. The guy signing up wants your stuff and really can't find it anywhere else. He's going to have to deal with whatever the members area has setup inside.

But I'm wondering how it effects the more generic sites (those without unique content). The ones that are giving you hundreds of run-of-the-mill porn that can probably be found on dozens of sites. If a surfer has an option to choose between one that is streaming and one where he can download, he's going to take the latter. So with all the competition out there, why bother if you run one of these type of sites? The content is going to get out there one way or the other unless you somehow can convince every other porn site with similar content to move away from downloads.

While none of that makes sense, I guess what I'm saying is that it seems that the content protection would really only benefit those sites with unique content or something that can't be found anywhere else.

What was the question again? :winkwink:

Well with the cat.. meooowwww is out of the bag on any of the older stuff, you can't stuff it back in. I would mainly focus on any new exclusive stuff. The dvd video producers would be smart to start only allowing streaming for any new productions too. Can't get the stuff back that is out there, but everyone can cut off the new supply. To me that seems pretty cut and dry. Stop any of the new stuff from getting out, then you can start attacking the infringers.

Man....


zingerz the republican bro is like a dog with a bone.

Fucking A

Rooff!!!!!

yeah,us pornographers should go on strike.

:angrysoap

amen:thumbsup

I remember way back when I started to see free hosted movie galleries from sponsors, I told tons of webmasters the days of sales were coming to an end, ( well huge drop anyways ). Right from the get go I said videos should be made to stay in members areas only!! Once sponsors started letting them out for affiliates to use, that caused the rush for affiliates to get the videos on their free sites, and attract more vistors. That just brought on the tube sites.

Use images to lure the buyers, and get them to buy when they see they can get video in members area only!! fuck the downloading bullshit. If all sponsors pulled their heads out of their asses, and made it impossible to download videos, you will make more cash in long run.

As a surfer, why would I want to pay when I can hit up the millions of free sites and just jerk to it all the free videos?

Maybe a thumbs up would of been a better smilie then. No worries, I thick skinned.

To everyone.
Reading some of the posts here it's clear why Tubes are taking so much of our traffic. The amount we know about our buyers is so little we are bound to lose them to people who meet their needs better than we do.

There is no one type of buyer, there are many types. You have to target one type, in one niche and target him alone. Stop worrying about whether the surfer wants to download or not, some do and some don't. Some want to jerk off for 15 minutes to any porn in a niche they can find and leave. Some want to get into a site and spend an hour every day. They are all different and you need to know your customer a lot better than you know your affiliate today. The days of traffic being king are gone. Sorry if I keep saying it but it's not getting through to some.

Tubes are here to stay and there is fuck all we or anyone else can do about it. Yes here to stay, live with them and adapt or move on. They don't give a fuck if they close down 90% of the paysites on the Net. It will just mean more surfers with less options coming to them. They don't care if you make it impossible for them to steal content. The odds on you doing this are very very long but should it happen they will buy content or get it for free from sponsors who will support them. If they shut down sites and these sites are up for sale they will buy the site for the content and pay a pittance for it.

If you take down one scene from "Teensfuckedcash" the Tube surfer will look at a scene from "Teenfuckcash". The content is the same, often the same girl, same action, same faked impersonal porn that is not worth spending $30.

Tube sites don't care if they reduce the turn over of this industry by 90%. Because if they are the only ones left they will be getting the 10% left and that's more than they need. There business model is to sell dating, web cams and what ever they can. Like commercial TV their business is to sell advertising not entertainment.

So what can you do to stay in business? I say you because I have content that can't be duplicated and that's the key. If you want someone to sign up for 30 days you have to give him 30 days of entertainment that he can't get on a Tube site.

Or you go the Clips4sale, AEBN, Strictlybroadband, etc. route of giving the surfer the scene he wants at the price he's willing to pay for it.

We got ourselves into this mess. Every time we sent a surfer to a site that met our needs and not his we made another surfer think a Tube site was a better place to get porn. We need to get the surfers who will buy back to buying because it's a better deal and not dream Pandora's Box will close.

There are many kinds of porn consumers with many kinds of needs, thinking they are all the same is folly. Target one type and meet his needs not yours.

Spot on the money. For 8 years this industry has largely regarded content as second or even third in the structure of running a site. People shooting the same scene over and over again, just changing the girl and sofa does not make a scene "Exclusive". Shooting it on HD does not make it better porn. Shooting it on a budget that's a joke leads to getting monkeys who can point a camera. When you have programmers selling porn you are going to get problems. Printers print magazines, they never determine the content of the magazine. On the Adult net it's programmers who don't know porn deciding what goes into a site.

The industry is largely built around sites that have content most people can shoot and they have nothing better to offer the surfer than a Tube site. For many the answer has been to pay and spend more for the traffic. They did not know how to solve the original problem that surfers were not coming, converting or/and retaining.

For these sites the future is bleak.

If you don't know how do you expect to sell it? Other than sending 1000 people to get 1 sign up.

Hit the nail right on the head there :2 cents:

I have to jump in on this one.

While I concede that could be the case for 'some' niches. I know for us, based on e-mails from members, and buyers, they prefer new girls, redo the scene.

For example, we get e-mails that go something like this. "Man that bla blah blah scene was fucking awesome. Love the camera angles, and the girls getting into it. In the future, do you think you could do that with model 1 and model 2, maybe even model 3? Thanks man, keep up the good work!"

We have certain 'themes' where members want the same thing over and over. While rare in most porn. You can get away with it in smaller niches.

While I agree with PM on some of his points, I always caution when it comes to this whole, 'every one', 'all', 'no one' rhetoric.

What looks like monkey shot, single sofa porn to other webmasters could be what rebilling members are actually asking for (ok, maybe not that lame, but some repeat of scenes). I know we get some of that, and honestly, members and customers pay for our material. Not webmasters. So I could care less what another 'photographer' says. Frankly, once they start paying my bills, then I'll listen. Until then, I'll listen to the buying customer.

This is another example where many fall into that whole, pretty porn, much like the pretty website logic. I am not out to impress other webmasters with my site(s) or content. I am in this to make money. As long as money keeps rolling in, and members keep telling me what is up, and sales follow those e-mails. I'll shoot that same scene over and over and over with new girls every week until the cows come home.

Or zingerz stops kicking a dead horse..... :winkwink:

I was speaking generally and there are sites that have scenes that do just repeat the same scene. They are in the minority and the proof is the retention. One of the best sites, IMO, is Alsscan, they seem to shoot the same thing and yet keep it fresh. Give Me Pink as well. I was being general and do see some sites surviving.

I never get a reply from people saying "You know what I think we might be guilty of that a bit." But we all know these sites exist. All I get is replies from people telling me they're not doing that. LOL

Just reread what I posted and I got it wrong it should read.

I was speaking generally and there are sites that do well and have scenes that repeat the same scene.

Put's a different twist on it. Had a heavy lunch with wine. :drinkup

You thread jackerssssss!

The funny (and maybe ironic in an Alannis Morriesette kind of way) thing is this.

Old school webmasters "The Tubes are killing us RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE They will be the death of adult RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE"

Old School webmasters "You HAVE TO DO DOWNLOADS or you will lose all your customers"

Me observation "Tube sites DONT HAVE DOWNLOADS"

Old School webmasters "Rabble?"

So in short we are losing all our members to a model that doesn't have downloads, but we have to keep downloads to keep our members. Umm.. :uhoh

But wahh thats cause tubes are free. People paying want downloads wahh.

Everyone on the fookin internet goes to Youtube.com They know how streaming "can work" The streaming I use in our members areas kicks youtubes ass quite frankly. So I guess the next thing will be HD porn tube sites. lol Its coming, mark my words. And those that do not keep their shit secure will have their expensive HD scenes right up on those HD tube sites. And they will STILL be going, "but the members want downloads." :1orglaugh

So what is the board?