ibill says non Us webmasters dont pay fees!! - GoFuckYourself.com

auscguy · 10-21-2002, 02:50 AM

I rang Ibill yesterday and was told by a sales rep not to set up a US company, and not to pay the Visa fees. He said Ibill is looking to set up offices in Non Us locations before Nov 15 and that these fees will not affect us. I tried ringing Epoch to see if they are doing the same thing but havent gotten hold of anyone who can confirm this yet.

Can anyone confirm this that Ibill is doing it for them? If its true, this is a big thing for non US webmaster....might keep off the wolves for a month or 2......

quiet · 10-21-2002, 02:51 AM

down under...

=^..^= · 10-21-2002, 02:56 AM

Sounds liek a load of B/S to me

as soon as they get set up here - they'll charge us the fees

Serge_Oprano · 10-21-2002, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=
Sounds liek a load of B/S to me

as soon as they get set up here - they'll charge us the fees

kitty,
do you sell preggo content?
I have a buyer for you

Krul · 10-21-2002, 03:02 AM

I can only verify that Verotel is not affected by these regulations!

<a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000367069">
<img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/button.gif"></a>

auscguy · 10-21-2002, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by =^..^=
Sounds liek a load of B/S to me

as soon as they get set up here - they'll charge us the fees

I thought that too...as I said...might hold them off for a couple of months...give us more time

auscguy · 10-21-2002, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet
down under...

well, Australisia...somewhere down here....

Shoplifter · 10-21-2002, 03:54 AM

I think it is known at this point that down under and EU guys are off the hook. They will register, but not pay any fees or require USA presence.

I have heard some talk on Sunday that Canadians were somehow included in this as well but it was so unsubstantive that I didn't post here.

I guess we will know shortly if anything is up. I will be calling my rep as soon as it's office hours in Florida.

quiet · 10-21-2002, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
I have heard some talk on Sunday that Canadians were somehow included in this as well but it was so unsubstantive that I didn't post here.

I guess we will know shortly if anything is up. I will be calling my rep as soon as it's office hours in Florida. [/B]

well, what did you hear? i'd appreciate anything you might have heard...

Shoplifter · 10-21-2002, 04:01 AM

I was told by an Ibill support guy that Canadians would register but not pay fees. He said the situation was changing hourly.

I can't really regard this as credible but there it is.

quiet · 10-21-2002, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter
I was told by an Ibill support guy that Canadians would register but not pay fees. He said the situation was changing hourly.

I can't really regard this as credible but there it is.

ultraquiet at mac dot com

Shoplifter · 10-21-2002, 04:19 AM

Your email is bouncing for me.

Diagnostic-Code: smtp;551 User unknown

I am blaster444 at hotmail.com.

merlin · 10-21-2002, 04:20 AM

I have been waiting for Monday after reading Quiet's post the other day (any more news on that Quiet?) :http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=83520

Really hard to know whats going on, when the visa news first hit my acc rep told me ibill will have AU (Oceania/Asia) presence, but a week later she said it may not be setup in time (by nov 15) as they were having problems with it but were still working on it and recommended setting up US corp (that was 9 days ago).

Even if they charged the fees I could not care less, will call again as soon as office opens to see what's going on.

Hopefully we might all get the same story this week.

Interesting some reps are saying not to setup US corp though, would hope they had some hard facts backing that recommendation up. And I hope they are right.

quiet · 10-21-2002, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by merlin
I have been waiting for Monday after reading Quiet's post the other day (any more news on that Quiet?) :http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=83520

Really hard to know whats going on, when the visa news first hit my acc rep told me ibill will have AU (Oceania/Asia) presence, but a week later she said it may not be setup in time (by nov 15) as they were having problems with it but were still working on it and recommended setting up US corp (that was 9 days ago).

Even if they charged the fees I could not care less, will call again as soon as office opens to see what's going on.

Hopefully we might all get the same story this week.

Interesting some reps are saying not to setup US corp though, would hope they had some hard facts backing that recommendation up. And I hope they are right.

this was only about Candian companies. shoplifter, my email is bouncing? weird.

i'll shoot you an email to your hotm....

Bear · 10-21-2002, 05:21 AM

I don't really believe what ibill said anymore. They said something on Monday and something else on Friday, who know what's truth. Until they really send their official email, I will believe them. They fool webmasters too many times and they lost their goodwill.

The safetest way is move your transaction to another processor now. It can min your lost. Don't wait for ibill, if their statement is truth, that's a bonus. But if it's not true, it's their lost. We don't need ibill but ibill need all of us!

Sambuka · 10-21-2002, 05:29 AM

Merlin, I had the same exact talk with Ibill, I call them up and they said "Don't worry we will have all 6 banking regions setup before Nov 15. So if I wasn't chatting on boards I wouldn't of thought any more of it, but then I see someone on the chat board the very next day saying that "Ibill said they can't process for anyone outside of US after the 15th and that everyone should setup US presences. I mean fuck Ibill are hopeless, been telling webmasters 1 thing and then change there fucking minds and don't bother to inform there customers who are making them $1000's a month. Some $10,000s a month.

I've been trying to get my damn Ibill signup reg form off them for the last week as well and I've been told that I will be recieving it in my inbox within 1 hour, 24 hours and I even had one bitch from Ibill tell me "There sir I have just sent you the Email" "is there anything else I can help you with". I checked my mail and it wasn't there, so I said nope that will be fine. I hung up waited 1 minute for the email to arrive (IT DIDN'T). I call back and the next guy tells me that there is no way that girl could of sent me the email because they didn't have access to that infomation, only the account reps have access to it.

I MEAN FUCK IBILL sort your fucking SHIT OUT!!!

Now someone is saying Aussie might be in the clear, I hope so but i'm not holding my breath, i've just spent $1000 setting up a US corp.

Sammy

XXX_Jman · 10-21-2002, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by auscguy
I rang Ibill yesterday and was told by a sales rep not to set up a US company, and not to pay the Visa fees. He said Ibill is looking to set up offices in Non Us locations before Nov 15 and that these fees will not affect us. I tried ringing Epoch to see if they are doing the same thing but havent gotten hold of anyone who can confirm this yet.
Can anyone confirm this that Ibill is doing it for them? If its true, this is a big thing for non US webmaster....might keep off the wolves for a month or 2......

I was wondering how ccbill / ibill are going to go setting up in Aust, because as far as I know - there are no Australian banks that support billing address verification or CVV2 verification, so it will be interesting to see what they will do for their fraud measures...

Sambuka · 10-21-2002, 07:59 AM

Just talked to Ibill, EU and US is good, but the rest of the world is currently FUCKED! I was told I should setup a company in the EU or US.

They ARE TRYING to setup a merchant account in Asia & latin America. And I've been told in the past they can't process in Canada.

Sammy

XXX_Jman · 10-21-2002, 08:02 AM

here we go again...

greef · 10-21-2002, 09:54 AM

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, THAT DOESN'T FUCK YOU!!!
<a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000366228">
<img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/banner.gif"></A>
If you want to read more about the other creditcard company's than have a look at: verotel.greef.net
WE CAN HELP!!!
goodluck

auscguy · 10-21-2002, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXX_Jman

I was wondering how ccbill / ibill are going to go setting up in Aust, because as far as I know - there are no Australian banks that support billing address verification or CVV2 verification, so it will be interesting to see what they will do for their fraud measures...

We have fraud in Australia???

d00t · 10-21-2002, 10:35 AM

ibill rekons visa are changing their minds every hour about this whole isps saga ...

jimmyf · 10-21-2002, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greef
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, THAT DOESN'T FUCK YOU!!!
<a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000366228">
<img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/banner.gif"></A>
If you want to read more about the other creditcard company's than have a look at: verotel.greef.net
WE CAN HELP!!!
goodluck

I signed up as a partner with some big site... 2,3 or 4 years ago... dam if I ever got to check my stat's.. Could never get the 16 digit code right,,, gave up and took all links down.

rodme_him · 10-21-2002, 11:24 AM

I think we need to stop speculating, and get them in here to give us the facts.

fact == forms have been sent out (I got mine)

fact == they want the fee's (I decide to sit and wait)

fact == to set up a US company means, have to have business licence to do business in the states (this is what I was told when I crossed the border to set up a bank account), I have to file for a TAX ID and SSN #'s so I can pay their taxes too, which means I get double taxed (I said thankyou and walked out the door, went and had lunch and came home)

speculation == the big 3rd party billing companies are being held accountable for their actions as of late by Visa USA, so in the process of them getting shit, we are getting shit on. They want money from the Big guys for processing each one of there accounts, so in turn they want us to pay their fees for them.

Can either IBILL of CCBill dispute these facts and this speculation, lets hear from them on this matter.

Face it folks, we all got caught with our pants around our ankles pissing in the bush, and now someone is slapping us on the ass to wake us up.

All this speculation is getting us no where, we need the facts from the big guys so that we all know what to do.

I am a Canadian webmaster with 2 paysites, I have my own USD Visa Merchant Account and I haven't heard boo from Visa regarding any of this, do I speculate, I can but it doesn't get me anywhere. I am going with the flow and looking for a processor for my own account.

My 2 cents -- let the flaming begin!! LOL

Shoplifter · 10-21-2002, 12:51 PM

No good news for Canadians here at all. In fact I am still trying to get all my master accounts associated with my IPSP number and Ibill has now opened a ticket on this.

Today's answer seems to be that everyone except US and EU is out.

I would like to get some secondary questions answered, like will checks be sent out of the USA but no answers yet. My rep has gone to a voice mail only mode and I am not getting any replies.

The way that this has been handled is a complete outrage. If I didn't read GFY I would have no idea that a USA presence is required as there is nothing about this in the email or the CMI announcement. For every one of us here, there are certainly many many Canadians who never got an email from them at all or if they did are typing in their Canadian SIN numbers lol.

jeroman · 10-21-2002, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sambuka
I've been trying to get my damn Ibill signup reg form off them for the last week as well and I've been told that I will be recieving it in my inbox within 1 hour, 24 hours and I even had one bitch from Ibill tell me "There sir I have just sent you the Email" "is there anything else I can help you with". I checked my mail and it wasn't there, so I said nope that will be fine. I hung up waited 1 minute for the email to arrive (IT DIDN'T). I call back and the next guy tells me that there is no way that girl could of sent me the email because they didn't have access to that infomation, only the account reps have access to it.

This is cool, exactly the same thing, well not really, happend to me today LOL. A guy said I had to register (I'm from sweden) and said he attached the file. There was no file. I e-mailed him back and he then said here it is, but there was only a gif image of the document it self LOL. Just sent a new fresh e-mail so lets see what happens.

1000 dollar setting up a corp - I paid 320 :-), it took 6 days to
get my tax ID and address. Doesn't Canada and US have a trade
agreement so you don't get taxed in both countries ? We have.

CCbill will also continue processing for EU, don't know baout the fee though.

Regards Jeroman
[email protected]

Webby · 10-21-2002, 08:44 PM

This sounds correct! Only VISA US processors have this problem and, least at the moment, the VISA International rules have not been adopted by other banking regions... so tis kinda hard for em to enforce form filling and fees on something they cannot do/enforce with their banking partners outside the US...

Think IBill have already said (and CCBill) that they are creating banking relationships in other jurisdictions to counter the VISA US form filling/fees and retain their international client base - depends on how long they will take to complete this...

Webby · 10-21-2002, 08:52 PM

Mmm.. although... IBill have asked for the form filling regardless of the jurisdiction (they are asking for this for EU clients)... but that is basically bullshit and "information gathering" - this info is not being requested by any other processors other than the main three US domestic ones.

So.. can see a good few off the shelf companies being formed in Gibraltar and them dealing with other than US processors :-)

Webby · 10-21-2002, 08:58 PM

Shoplifter:

If you "have" to have a Canadian processor.. probilling (Calgary) are OK.. they actually have international banking relationships and don't have any form filling or fees. (Not that I am vouching for anyone *g*... past that! But know of their relationships and all I hear are good things - kinda rare!)

Shoplifter · 10-21-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Webby
Shoplifter:

If you "have" to have a Canadian processor.. probilling (Calgary) are OK.. they actually have international banking relationships and don't have any form filling or fees. (Not that I am vouching for anyone *g*... past that! But know of their relationships and all I hear are good things - kinda rare!)

I checked them out but I know they don't have a Canadian banking presence. So they are no more compliant with the "regulations" than Globill or PSW etc. Considering this I am checking out Verotel as they seem to have the widest range of client payment options of any biller I have seen.

Kimmykim · 10-21-2002, 09:19 PM

Banks that are going to be able to continue to accept 5967 transactions will have to be large ones. They must have a minimum of 100 million in Tier 1 capital to do so. Most big banks, ie Bank of America, Citibank, etc, are more than big enough but do not want to do business in high risk.

Webby · 10-21-2002, 09:25 PM

Shoplifter:

Suggest you hop along to Globill site and sign up a dummy account in there and then go to the forums... there are a few comments about Verotel there... between the bullshit.. cautionary!

10-21-2002, 02:50 AM	#1
auscguy Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: downunder Posts: 111	ibill says non Us webmasters dont pay fees!! I rang Ibill yesterday and was told by a sales rep not to set up a US company, and not to pay the Visa fees. He said Ibill is looking to set up offices in Non Us locations before Nov 15 and that these fees will not affect us. I tried ringing Epoch to see if they are doing the same thing but havent gotten hold of anyone who can confirm this yet. Can anyone confirm this that Ibill is doing it for them? If its true, this is a big thing for non US webmaster....might keep off the wolves for a month or 2......

10-21-2002, 02:51 AM	#2
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	down under... __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP Last edited by quiet; 10-21-2002 at 02:53 AM..

10-21-2002, 02:56 AM	#3
=^..^= Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ICQ 380-366 Posts: 6,935	Sounds liek a load of B/S to me as soon as they get set up here - they'll charge us the fees __________________ #RememberYourRoots #AaronMForGFYHOF

10-21-2002, 05:21 AM	#15
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	I don't really believe what ibill said anymore. They said something on Monday and something else on Friday, who know what's truth. Until they really send their official email, I will believe them. They fool webmasters too many times and they lost their goodwill. The safetest way is move your transaction to another processor now. It can min your lost. Don't wait for ibill, if their statement is truth, that's a bonus. But if it's not true, it's their lost. We don't need ibill but ibill need all of us! Last edited by Bear; 10-21-2002 at 05:23 AM..

10-21-2002, 08:02 AM	#19
XXX_Jman Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Up my own ass Posts: 213	here we go again... __________________ XXX_Jman "To win without fighting is best"

10-21-2002, 03:02 AM	#5
Krul Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 24	I can only verify that Verotel is not affected by these regulations! <a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000367069"> <img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/button.gif"></a>

10-21-2002, 03:54 AM	#8
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	I think it is known at this point that down under and EU guys are off the hook. They will register, but not pay any fees or require USA presence. I have heard some talk on Sunday that Canadians were somehow included in this as well but it was so unsubstantive that I didn't post here. I guess we will know shortly if anything is up. I will be calling my rep as soon as it's office hours in Florida.

10-21-2002, 04:01 AM	#10
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	I was told by an Ibill support guy that Canadians would register but not pay fees. He said the situation was changing hourly. I can't really regard this as credible but there it is.

10-21-2002, 04:19 AM	#12
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	Your email is bouncing for me. Diagnostic-Code: smtp;551 User unknown I am blaster444 at hotmail.com.

10-21-2002, 04:20 AM	#13
merlin Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: OZ Posts: 97	I have been waiting for Monday after reading Quiet's post the other day (any more news on that Quiet?) :http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...threadid=83520 Really hard to know whats going on, when the visa news first hit my acc rep told me ibill will have AU (Oceania/Asia) presence, but a week later she said it may not be setup in time (by nov 15) as they were having problems with it but were still working on it and recommended setting up US corp (that was 9 days ago). Even if they charged the fees I could not care less, will call again as soon as office opens to see what's going on. Hopefully we might all get the same story this week. Interesting some reps are saying not to setup US corp though, would hope they had some hard facts backing that recommendation up. And I hope they are right.

10-21-2002, 05:29 AM	#16
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	Merlin, I had the same exact talk with Ibill, I call them up and they said "Don't worry we will have all 6 banking regions setup before Nov 15. So if I wasn't chatting on boards I wouldn't of thought any more of it, but then I see someone on the chat board the very next day saying that "Ibill said they can't process for anyone outside of US after the 15th and that everyone should setup US presences. I mean fuck Ibill are hopeless, been telling webmasters 1 thing and then change there fucking minds and don't bother to inform there customers who are making them $1000's a month. Some $10,000s a month. I've been trying to get my damn Ibill signup reg form off them for the last week as well and I've been told that I will be recieving it in my inbox within 1 hour, 24 hours and I even had one bitch from Ibill tell me "There sir I have just sent you the Email" "is there anything else I can help you with". I checked my mail and it wasn't there, so I said nope that will be fine. I hung up waited 1 minute for the email to arrive (IT DIDN'T). I call back and the next guy tells me that there is no way that girl could of sent me the email because they didn't have access to that infomation, only the account reps have access to it. I MEAN FUCK IBILL sort your fucking SHIT OUT!!! Now someone is saying Aussie might be in the clear, I hope so but i'm not holding my breath, i've just spent $1000 setting up a US corp. Sammy

10-21-2002, 07:59 AM	#18
Sambuka Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: - Posts: 500	Just talked to Ibill, EU and US is good, but the rest of the world is currently FUCKED! I was told I should setup a company in the EU or US. They ARE TRYING to setup a merchant account in Asia & latin America. And I've been told in the past they can't process in Canada. Sammy

10-21-2002, 09:54 AM	#20
greef Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 21	THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, THAT DOESN'T FUCK YOU!!! <a href="http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/make_link.verotel?verotel_id=9804000000366228"> <img border=0 src="http://www.verotel.com/gfx/banner.gif"></A> If you want to read more about the other creditcard company's than have a look at: verotel.greef.net WE CAN HELP!!! goodluck

10-21-2002, 10:35 AM	#22
d00t Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your mind Posts: 3,766	ibill rekons visa are changing their minds every hour about this whole isps saga ...

10-21-2002, 11:24 AM	#24
rodme_him Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 51	I think we need to stop speculating, and get them in here to give us the facts. fact == forms have been sent out (I got mine) fact == they want the fee's (I decide to sit and wait) fact == to set up a US company means, have to have business licence to do business in the states (this is what I was told when I crossed the border to set up a bank account), I have to file for a TAX ID and SSN #'s so I can pay their taxes too, which means I get double taxed (I said thankyou and walked out the door, went and had lunch and came home) speculation == the big 3rd party billing companies are being held accountable for their actions as of late by Visa USA, so in the process of them getting shit, we are getting shit on. They want money from the Big guys for processing each one of there accounts, so in turn they want us to pay their fees for them. Can either IBILL of CCBill dispute these facts and this speculation, lets hear from them on this matter. Face it folks, we all got caught with our pants around our ankles pissing in the bush, and now someone is slapping us on the ass to wake us up. All this speculation is getting us no where, we need the facts from the big guys so that we all know what to do. I am a Canadian webmaster with 2 paysites, I have my own USD Visa Merchant Account and I haven't heard boo from Visa regarding any of this, do I speculate, I can but it doesn't get me anywhere. I am going with the flow and looking for a processor for my own account. My 2 cents -- let the flaming begin!! LOL __________________ <center> <b>A good webmaster is a happy webmaster</b> </center>

10-21-2002, 12:51 PM	#25
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,726	No good news for Canadians here at all. In fact I am still trying to get all my master accounts associated with my IPSP number and Ibill has now opened a ticket on this. Today's answer seems to be that everyone except US and EU is out. I would like to get some secondary questions answered, like will checks be sent out of the USA but no answers yet. My rep has gone to a voice mail only mode and I am not getting any replies. The way that this has been handled is a complete outrage. If I didn't read GFY I would have no idea that a USA presence is required as there is nothing about this in the email or the CMI announcement. For every one of us here, there are certainly many many Canadians who never got an email from them at all or if they did are typing in their Canadian SIN numbers lol.

10-21-2002, 08:44 PM	#27
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	This sounds correct! Only VISA US processors have this problem and, least at the moment, the VISA International rules have not been adopted by other banking regions... so tis kinda hard for em to enforce form filling and fees on something they cannot do/enforce with their banking partners outside the US... Think IBill have already said (and CCBill) that they are creating banking relationships in other jurisdictions to counter the VISA US form filling/fees and retain their international client base - depends on how long they will take to complete this...

10-21-2002, 08:52 PM	#28
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Mmm.. although... IBill have asked for the form filling regardless of the jurisdiction (they are asking for this for EU clients)... but that is basically bullshit and "information gathering" - this info is not being requested by any other processors other than the main three US domestic ones. So.. can see a good few off the shelf companies being formed in Gibraltar and them dealing with other than US processors :-)

10-21-2002, 08:58 PM	#29
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Shoplifter: If you "have" to have a Canadian processor.. probilling (Calgary) are OK.. they actually have international banking relationships and don't have any form filling or fees. (Not that I am vouching for anyone g... past that! But know of their relationships and all I hear are good things - kinda rare!)

10-21-2002, 09:19 PM	#31
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Banks that are going to be able to continue to accept 5967 transactions will have to be large ones. They must have a minimum of 100 million in Tier 1 capital to do so. Most big banks, ie Bank of America, Citibank, etc, are more than big enough but do not want to do business in high risk.

10-21-2002, 09:25 PM	#32
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	Shoplifter: Suggest you hop along to Globill site and sign up a dummy account in there and then go to the forums... there are a few comments about Verotel there... between the bullshit.. cautionary!