COGENTCO vs VERIO - GoFuckYourself.com

EFH · 10-18-2002, 07:13 PM

The difference between cogentco and verio.. Before few days i was on cogentco .. now i am on Verio.net and my traffic grow with 40 %

Krome · 10-18-2002, 07:16 PM

Check www.sinhost.com there is an article there about it.

m0rph3us · 10-18-2002, 07:18 PM

SpeakEasy · 10-18-2002, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EFH
The difference between cogentco and verio.. Before few days i was on cogentco .. now i am on Verio.net and my traffic grow with 40 %

There are many reasons for this, like the piss poor connectivity of cogent, and their situation gets worse by the day. They are by far the worst option of bandwidth providers that there are in todays market. You get what you pay for...

L0stMind · 10-18-2002, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EFH
The difference between cogentco and verio.. Before few days i was on cogentco .. now i am on Verio.net and my traffic grow with 40 %

Thats almost funny.

But what is actually funny is that this thread has so few replies. nobody cares that cogent sucks, they just care that it is cheap

Thats funny!

Honeyslut · 10-18-2002, 10:55 PM

I care and am now paying more for quality bandwidth.

m0rph3us · 10-18-2002, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by L0stMind

Thats almost funny.

But what is actually funny is that this thread has so few replies. nobody cares that cogent sucks, they just care that it is cheap

Thats funny!

actually people are just ignorant and don't know how to look for a deal. Some Cogent based hosts charge as much as you would pay for premium bandwidth if you shopped around.

pr0 · 10-18-2002, 11:27 PM

If i see another cogent thread i think i might puke

chupacabra · 10-18-2002, 11:33 PM

if any could please educate me, is COGENTCO bw really that bad? we buy capped bw on a co-lo and i believe the bw does come from cogentco, it shows in our traceroute (core01.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com), but we haven't had any real outages in many months... what is wrong w/ it, and how cheap *should* it be?

m0rph3us · 10-18-2002, 11:40 PM

chupa, you don't necessarily have to have downtime with cogent. It's all about in how they route thier stuff. Check other 3 threads on GFY this week about this.

Cogent is $3k for 100Mbits. 30k for 1Gbps (without routers and setup).

chupacabra · 10-18-2002, 11:53 PM

m0rph3us, can i ICQ you? love to ask a few quick questions about bw and such, not sure if we are getting burned or not currently..!

m0rph3us · 10-19-2002, 12:20 AM

yeah 91603384. Icq me in the AM though because I'm dead tired now.

chupacabra · 10-19-2002, 12:21 AM

k, thx m0rph3us... will hit you up at a reasonable hour!

Brad Mitchell · 10-19-2002, 03:26 AM

Here's my

When price is your main concern and you have to burn alot of bandwidth... you have to do whatever you have to do. It used to be that Cogent was the only reasonably priced option for people with high bandwidth needs and a low margin. That's simply not the case anymore.

Everyone here knows that whether it's Verio, Cogent, Qwest, or Level 3 that all of them will basically get the job done. Uptime and downtime usually tend to be more an issue of who you host with and not what pipe you are on. So, it would make sense that there are people who haven't had notable downtime on any of those major providers.

So yes, those hosting on Cogent are connected to the web just like the rest of us. I don't think the argument was ever that you couldn't host successfully on Cogent, it was that you will find better performance on virtually any other network all the time. The net performance overall is ever changing, so nobody wants to see your traceroutes to anyone's hosting operation. Regardless of what you can show here the reality is that everything is faster than Cogent almost all of the time.

Here's the thing though...

It's not 2000... or 2001. Things have changed.

Hosts using Cogent used to be the only ones with sub $1.00 per gig pricing and that's not the case anymore. I use Verio and I've got all kinds of plans under $1.00 per gig without any quality compromise. I don't oversell my network and I don't cut corners.

Are you a smart hosting client? I talk to lots of people on the phone who are currently hosting with Cogent. They speak of the 10 megabit handoffs, 500 gig per month plans, etc. The funny thing is that virtually everyone that I speak with only uses a fraction of what they're actually buying. So, if you're paying $500/month for 10mbit you're theoretically allowed to do 3164gigs of transfer in a month. This means on that hosts "price per gig" chart he's going to say you're paying 16 cents per gig or something along those lines.

In reality, if you're only using 100 gigs you're paying $5 per gig. If you use 500 gigs you're paying $1 per gig. I don't even think 1 in 10 hosting clients use all the bandwidth they end up buying.

My point? The differences in pricing have changed. Most hosts on Verio, Level3, Qwest, Global Crossing, etc... still have the same old pricing. However, lots of hosts have since renegotiated with their carriers and dramatically lowered their costs. I know I have. In hosting the question is how much are you paying and how much are you using... NOT how much are you paying and how much CAN you use. Hosts like me don't penalize you for overage, they simply move you to the next plan which always makes your cost per gig cheaper.

There is a paradigm shift afoot... and the new question is really becoming: for the same money, would you rather be on Cogent or Tier1? You know which one has has proper peering and substantially better performance.

Cheers,

Brad

deniska · 10-19-2002, 04:18 AM

We use verio along with other tier1's the more connectivity you have the better your network. The rise in traffic/bandwidth when moving from cogent to a better netowork is quite normal we have seen this trend with a few of clients.

Lane · 10-19-2002, 09:10 AM

especially for traffic trading sites, it makes a huge difference

L0stMind · 10-19-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lane
especially for traffic trading sites, it makes a huge difference

I've noticed that sites destined for overseas surfers (Japan, Europe, Brazil) ALL do significantly better when switching from Cogent to any network with some decent peering.

bash · 10-19-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EFH
The difference between cogentco and verio.. Before few days i was on cogentco .. now i am on Verio.net and my traffic grow with 40 %

Then go from Verio to Level3 and you'll see another 40% increase

Jamie · 10-19-2002, 04:09 PM

Quote:

for the same money, would you rather be on Cogent or Tier1?

For the record Cogent is Tier 1

patmccrotch · 10-22-2002, 12:55 AM

From the few posts that I've read on this bbs tonight I've derived 1 thing quickly, all of morpheus's posts should be disregarded as his true motive is to manipulate the discussion into a direction that will drive business his way. Am I saying he is an asshole for doing that, not in the slightest, we're all here for the money. I am saying that I would view his posts as tainted goods. I think that SinEmpire did a good job of posting with valid information and as objective as someone in the business you are questioning is able too.

The argument isn't really which is better I don't think, rather it's whether the cost of the premium bandwidth + hosting fees justify the difference in cost. It is true, you pay for what you get but only as long as you are an informed consumer. Research all aspects of the providers as well as (and maybe even more importantly) the hosting company you are choosing to work with.

I've had the experience of both Verio bandwidth and Cogent bandwidth and as many have posted, the uptime is comparable. I've had virtually no down time with either provider, so you can pretty much set that aside.

On many of my routes Verio was the quickest path, and in return Cogent was the faster of the two on other destinations. I would say that the true solution lies not with one provider but with someone who multi-homes with both providers. Chances are it will keep your costs lower and get your from point A to point B on whichever network is the fastest.

Brad Mitchell · 10-22-2002, 01:12 AM

I think that just as important as your pipe... is the job your host does... at the end of the day, that's paramount.

You know I agree with you on alot of things, Jamie. However, calling Cogent Tier1 when they don't have proper and robust peering arrangements with other providers isn't exactly correct. From what I am told Cogent packets are given the lowest priority at peering points based on how they have negotiated things.

I do agree that they've built a tremendous network of their own, so point to point within their network it's probably incredible. However, most people won't ever experience that because they're not surfing from a point that is directly on the Cogent network.

...that is all to the best of my knowledge, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. None of us knows everything, not even me!

I should be sleeping...

Brad

m0rph3us · 10-22-2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by patmccrotch
all of morpheus's posts should be disregarded as his true motive is to manipulate the discussion into a direction that will drive business his way.

who are you? I don't care if anybody wants to come host with me or not, I'm just putting out the facts about Cogent, I'm not manipulating anything

On-top · 10-22-2002, 02:03 AM

CogentCo's Market cap is $1 Million.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=COI&d=t

Verio is backed by $60 Billion NTT.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ntt&d=t

posh rat in hell · 10-22-2002, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie

For the record Cogent is Tier 1

Cogent buys transit from MFN (The old Abovenet), this, by definition, means they are not a Tier 1 ( since they pay to fill holes in their route table )

SR · 10-22-2002, 04:34 AM

It's mostly bullshit.
Cogent isn't as bad as they all say here.
Okay I wouldn't use it for a paysite but for galleries it's good stuff for about 1/2 the price of "normal" bandwidth.
There are tons of ppl using cogent bandwidth that pay big bucks for guaranteed listings on big TGPs.
If it was that bad they wouldn't risk their money on it.

10-18-2002, 07:13 PM	#1
EFH Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sexland Posts: 7	COGENTCO vs VERIO The difference between cogentco and verio.. Before few days i was on cogentco .. now i am on Verio.net and my traffic grow with 40 %

10-18-2002, 07:18 PM	#3
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	__________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-18-2002, 10:55 PM	#6
Honeyslut Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ass Valley, Ca Posts: 6,436	I care and am now paying more for quality bandwidth. __________________ http://nakedlunchnews.comWhat's up ? Naked Lunch News !

10-19-2002, 12:20 AM	#12
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	yeah 91603384. Icq me in the AM though because I'm dead tired now. __________________ <font size="2" face="Tahoma"><a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Get paid $25 per signup</a> listing over <a href="http://galleries.18blowjobs.com/hosted.html" target="_blank">100 free hosted video galleries</a> - <a href="http://www.18blowjobs.com/webmasters/?640" target="_blank">Check it</a> » </font>

10-19-2002, 03:26 AM	#14
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	Here's my When price is your main concern and you have to burn alot of bandwidth... you have to do whatever you have to do. It used to be that Cogent was the only reasonably priced option for people with high bandwidth needs and a low margin. That's simply not the case anymore. Everyone here knows that whether it's Verio, Cogent, Qwest, or Level 3 that all of them will basically get the job done. Uptime and downtime usually tend to be more an issue of who you host with and not what pipe you are on. So, it would make sense that there are people who haven't had notable downtime on any of those major providers. So yes, those hosting on Cogent are connected to the web just like the rest of us. I don't think the argument was ever that you couldn't host successfully on Cogent, it was that you will find better performance on virtually any other network all the time. The net performance overall is ever changing, so nobody wants to see your traceroutes to anyone's hosting operation. Regardless of what you can show here the reality is that everything is faster than Cogent almost all of the time. Here's the thing though... It's not 2000... or 2001. Things have changed. Hosts using Cogent used to be the only ones with sub $1.00 per gig pricing and that's not the case anymore. I use Verio and I've got all kinds of plans under $1.00 per gig without any quality compromise. I don't oversell my network and I don't cut corners. Are you a smart hosting client? I talk to lots of people on the phone who are currently hosting with Cogent. They speak of the 10 megabit handoffs, 500 gig per month plans, etc. The funny thing is that virtually everyone that I speak with only uses a fraction of what they're actually buying. So, if you're paying $500/month for 10mbit you're theoretically allowed to do 3164gigs of transfer in a month. This means on that hosts "price per gig" chart he's going to say you're paying 16 cents per gig or something along those lines. In reality, if you're only using 100 gigs you're paying $5 per gig. If you use 500 gigs you're paying $1 per gig. I don't even think 1 in 10 hosting clients use all the bandwidth they end up buying. My point? The differences in pricing have changed. Most hosts on Verio, Level3, Qwest, Global Crossing, etc... still have the same old pricing. However, lots of hosts have since renegotiated with their carriers and dramatically lowered their costs. I know I have. In hosting the question is how much are you paying and how much are you using... NOT how much are you paying and how much CAN you use. Hosts like me don't penalize you for overage, they simply move you to the next plan which always makes your cost per gig cheaper. There is a paradigm shift afoot... and the new question is really becoming: for the same money, would you rather be on Cogent or Tier1? You know which one has has proper peering and substantially better performance. Cheers, Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

10-18-2002, 07:16 PM	#2
Krome Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: London - UK Posts: 2,851	Check www.sinhost.com there is an article there about it.

10-18-2002, 11:27 PM	#8
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	If i see another cogent thread i think i might puke

10-18-2002, 11:33 PM	#9
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	if any could please educate me, is COGENTCO bw really that bad? we buy capped bw on a co-lo and i believe the bw does come from cogentco, it shows in our traceroute (core01.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com), but we haven't had any real outages in many months... what is wrong w/ it, and how cheap should it be?

10-18-2002, 11:40 PM	#10
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	chupa, you don't necessarily have to have downtime with cogent. It's all about in how they route thier stuff. Check other 3 threads on GFY this week about this. Cogent is $3k for 100Mbits. 30k for 1Gbps (without routers and setup).

10-18-2002, 11:53 PM	#11
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	m0rph3us, can i ICQ you? love to ask a few quick questions about bw and such, not sure if we are getting burned or not currently..!

10-19-2002, 12:21 AM	#13
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	k, thx m0rph3us... will hit you up at a reasonable hour!

10-19-2002, 04:18 AM	#15
deniska Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Miami Beach, FL Posts: 1,053	We use verio along with other tier1's the more connectivity you have the better your network. The rise in traffic/bandwidth when moving from cogent to a better netowork is quite normal we have seen this trend with a few of clients. Last edited by deniska; 10-19-2002 at 04:20 AM..

10-19-2002, 09:10 AM	#16
Lane Will code for food... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Buckeye, AZ Posts: 8,496	especially for traffic trading sites, it makes a huge difference __________________

10-22-2002, 12:55 AM	#20
patmccrotch Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: edinburgh Posts: 655	From the few posts that I've read on this bbs tonight I've derived 1 thing quickly, all of morpheus's posts should be disregarded as his true motive is to manipulate the discussion into a direction that will drive business his way. Am I saying he is an asshole for doing that, not in the slightest, we're all here for the money. I am saying that I would view his posts as tainted goods. I think that SinEmpire did a good job of posting with valid information and as objective as someone in the business you are questioning is able too. The argument isn't really which is better I don't think, rather it's whether the cost of the premium bandwidth + hosting fees justify the difference in cost. It is true, you pay for what you get but only as long as you are an informed consumer. Research all aspects of the providers as well as (and maybe even more importantly) the hosting company you are choosing to work with. I've had the experience of both Verio bandwidth and Cogent bandwidth and as many have posted, the uptime is comparable. I've had virtually no down time with either provider, so you can pretty much set that aside. On many of my routes Verio was the quickest path, and in return Cogent was the faster of the two on other destinations. I would say that the true solution lies not with one provider but with someone who multi-homes with both providers. Chances are it will keep your costs lower and get your from point A to point B on whichever network is the fastest.

10-22-2002, 01:12 AM	#21
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	I think that just as important as your pipe... is the job your host does... at the end of the day, that's paramount. You know I agree with you on alot of things, Jamie. However, calling Cogent Tier1 when they don't have proper and robust peering arrangements with other providers isn't exactly correct. From what I am told Cogent packets are given the lowest priority at peering points based on how they have negotiated things. I do agree that they've built a tremendous network of their own, so point to point within their network it's probably incredible. However, most people won't ever experience that because they're not surfing from a point that is directly on the Cogent network. ...that is all to the best of my knowledge, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. None of us knows everything, not even me! I should be sleeping... Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

10-22-2002, 02:03 AM	#23
On-top Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: IN Posts: 2,283	CogentCo's Market cap is $1 Million. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=COI&d=t Verio is backed by $60 Billion NTT. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ntt&d=t __________________ Dynamic Hosting

10-22-2002, 04:34 AM	#25
SR Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,239	It's mostly bullshit. Cogent isn't as bad as they all say here. Okay I wouldn't use it for a paysite but for galleries it's good stuff for about 1/2 the price of "normal" bandwidth. There are tons of ppl using cogent bandwidth that pay big bucks for guaranteed listings on big TGPs. If it was that bad they wouldn't risk their money on it.