Obama wants payroll tax on incomes above $250,000 - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

CDSmith · 06-14-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Because it's called go fuck yourself, not go debate yourself. If I wanted your opinion I would take a mirror and look at my asshole.

I of course knew you were going to go all grade-school on me.

Thanks for not disappointing.

spanky part 2 · 06-14-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I of course knew you were going to go all grade-school on me.

Thanks for not disappointing.

You're from Canada. You better hope we don't want more land for the US, cuz you canucks are toast.

Snake Doctor · 06-14-2008, 10:10 PM

Wow this got ugly quick. It went from a discussion on taxes to a referendum on tony404's intelligence and Obama's race.

Go figure. I guess when you can't defend your position with facts or a reasonable argument the next best thing is to personally attack the person you're having the argument with or change the subject to something like race or electability.

It seems the only person still trying to have a reasonable discussion about the tax issue is pocketkangaroo.

CDSmith · 06-14-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

You're from Canada. You better hope we don't want more land for the US, cuz you canucks are toast.

As luck would have it they don't let punks such as yourself make those kinds of decisions. :D

spanky part 2 · 06-14-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

As luck would have it they don't let punks such as yourself make those kinds of decisions. :D

" I am from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, but nevermind all that, just slap eyes on my massive throbbing POSTCOUNT!..."

and you are calling me a punk. I'd be embarrassed with that high of a post count, get a life!!!!

CDSmith · 06-14-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Doctor

Wow this got ugly quick. It went from a discussion on taxes to a referendum on tony404's intelligence and Obama's race.

Go figure. I guess when you can't defend your position with facts or a reasonable argument the next best thing is to personally attack the person you're having the argument with or change the subject to something like race or electability.

It seems the only person still trying to have a reasonable discussion about the tax issue is pocketkangaroo.

For the record there was no referendum on Tony's intelligence, at least not from me. I merely couldn't understand what it was he was trying to say in that one post of his because it was pretty badly written, so I asked him to rephrase, which he did.

Aside from the usual few asshats this is actually a pretty good discussion.

Agreed about pocketkangaroo. However, I've made most of my points in this thread and am not inclined to rehash them over and over at anyone's (gatorB's) behest. For example, I and others already discussed and addressed the "flat tax won't work" argument back on pages 2 and 3 if I recall correctly, and it has already been conceded and agreed that it isn't a workable solution, yet here we are just coming off of page 4 where gatorb is still arguing about flat tax.

When I'm seeing the same stuff being argued over and over that says to me it's time to let someone else take up the cause...at least until something new comes up.

CDSmith · 06-14-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

" I am from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, but nevermind all that, just slap eyes on my massive throbbing POSTCOUNT!..."

and you are calling me a punk. I'd be embarrassed with that high of a post count, get a life!!!!

Weak, as is typical of your ilk.

I've averaged my same 13-15 posts per day since joining, period.

Next insult...

pocketkangaroo · 06-14-2008, 10:32 PM

I just ignore the people throwing out personal insults and such. This board actually has a lot of intelligent people when you can manuever around the riff-raff. CDSmith, GatorB, Snake Doctor and a few others are able to make a good political discussion. I don't agree with some of GatorB and Snake Doctor's views, but I'd bet I agree with more than they think.

I'm actually voting for Obama in November, despite being against this tax measure. There are some things more important to me than money which Obama stands for and McCain doesn't.

And I'd vote Democrat more often if they got over this rich vs poor war. I'm not saying that it's necessarily due to their policy, but some of them try to demonize anyone making a good living. Edwards did this a lot which really turns me off. I'm not rich by any means, although I think I make a good living. But it seems like some of the Democrats want to make people think that anyone making money automatically doesn't care about them or the problems effecting them. The last thing this country needs is more reasons to polarize it.

Mr. Blue · 06-14-2008, 10:33 PM

Would people object to higher taxes if they knew the money would be well spent? I honestly don?t think so, the problem is that it?s usually not well spent. Throwing more money on a problem doesn?t solve the problem.

For example, all the pork barrel spending, would you be keen if the extra taxes were basically blown on useless programs that politicians use to buy votes? I can almost guarantee that no one would have a problem with paying higher taxes if they actually saw benefits to the greater good?however, with our current flawed political situation, I don?t want to give an extra penny into the system.

?The Associated Press did an analysis of last year's spending earmarks with the help of the Sunlight Foundation and Taxpayers for Common Sense. They found 11,780 earmarks worth $18.3 billion.?
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washi...looks_clo.html

Now, let the government stop diddle-dicking around with earmarks / pork barrel spending, curtail certain other useless expenditures, and proactively reduce fraud in current government programs. If they did all that and they still needed to raise taxes, at that time start the discussion?until they do that every person should be bitching and moaning about wasted tax dollars.

spanky part 2 · 06-14-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Weak, as is typical of your ilk.

I've averaged my same 13-15 posts per day since joining, period.

Next insult...

Dude I got nothing against you. You were the one calling me out, when I was just stating the bs of people bitching about the country, but not voting.

Seriously though, how do you even have an opinion on our freedoms when you are canadian. Worry about your own country. Seems to me you guys are doing great, but it's our country that is fucked.

Another reason that I get pissed at people who don't vote, is when I think back to 2000 and GWB won florida by a few hundred votes.

fsudirectory · 06-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Sometimes the people at the top need to help out the people below them. You are all too fuckin greedy. Not everyone is lucky enough to be smart and get through college. Workers are still needed in this world and without them it would be hard for 99% of the super rich to have got there.

MovieMaster · 06-15-2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MovieMaster

June 11th

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- John McCain and Barack Obama have starkly different philosophies about tax policy - how to raise the revenue needed to support government programs, spur growth and ensure economic fairness.

But voters really want to know one thing: How would the presidential candidates' views trickle down to their tax bills? A report released Wednesday by a nonpartisan policy group in Washington, D.C., takes a big first step toward answering that question.

Under both plans, all American taxpayers could pay a price for their tax cuts: a bigger deficit. The Tax Policy Center estimates that over 10 years, McCain's tax proposals could increase the national debt by as much as $4.5 trillion with interest, while Obama's could add as much as $3.3 trillion.

The reason: neither plan would raise the amount of revenue expected under current tax policy - which assumes all the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire by 2011. And neither plan would raise enough to cover expected government costs during those 10 years.

Now before you come to a conclusion or judgment read the following below!

How Taxes Work

Since it is tax season....It's good to understand how taxes are paid.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with
the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since
you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted
that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man
would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work
out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back
when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything
at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how
our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the
most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact,
they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier. Remember they are the ones who pay your wages, create jobs, and innovate.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

:clap:And We ask ourselves why all the jobs are leaving? We are forcing them to look elsewhere!

Again need I say more!

CDSmith · 06-15-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanky part 2

Dude I got nothing against you. You were the one calling me out, when I was just stating the bs of people bitching about the country, but not voting.

Seriously though, how do you even have an opinion on our freedoms when you are canadian. Worry about your own country. Seems to me you guys are doing great, but it's our country that is fucked.

Another reason that I get pissed at people who don't vote, is when I think back to 2000 and GWB won florida by a few hundred votes.

Okay first off I'm just trying to get you to put your angry angst kid nonsense aside for a while, and just talk. Second, I wasn't "calling you out", I merely corrected you on your somewhat skewed view of what "freedom" means, and then asked you in a calm direct manner a couple of questions about the tone of your posts. No more, no less.

Second, as you said, this IS "gofuckyourself"... which means another great thing aside from what you said... that being: you are going to get opinions (like mine) whether you want them or not. Yes, I am Canadian, but if you think for one second that we up here aren't interested in what goes on south of our border you really don't understand Canada, much less Canadian webmasters working in adult. We have a geniune stake in what goes on in the US because much of our income is derived from US companies, and sometimes (as in often) the policies initiated by your government affect our bottom line.

Aside from all that I have friends and much family strewn all through the states. Of course I have a vested interest in what happens to them. But all that aside I actually like the USA. Don't know as I'd want to live there, but I do love travelling on your interstates.

I hope this helps clear up some of that confusion that was spinning around in that head of yours.

Cheers, and have a nice rest of the weekend. :D

Peaches · 06-15-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

Barr/Root in 08. As long as you think you only have 2 choice America will always get shit. I fmore peoel would vote 3rd party even if they have no chance in hell in getting elected maybe if enough vote the 2 parties will get it. Hell who knows if we had a 3rd party in Congress even at only 10% the other 2 parties would not have a chocie but to compromise if they wanted to get anything done.

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/home/?s=0609-continue

I live in GA where Bob Barr has been practicing politics and law for years. My sister went to school with his son (this was because he changed zoning so that his ex-wife's house was in the school they wanted his son to go to). I've watched him become black or white depending on what suited him politically.

He's another handful of shit. He's VERY conservative and doesn't even slightly resemble a libertarian IMHO.

GatorB · 06-15-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

The poor get back more than they put in, especially if they live a long life.

The poor typically don't live as long as he rich. And that poor person would be IMMENSLY beter off take the money that he is forced to pay in SS and just even sticking it into simple CDs. So yeah the poor guy is losing money if you look at it that way. And if the poor guy dies before he can collect SS his hiers lose. They get $255.

Quote:

It would actually be an extra $12400 since. Essentially every dollar you make over $250,000 is being taxed at over 50%. That just seems insane to me that you would want to punish someone that much for being succesful.

You realize were talking about PAYROLL taxes in this discussion not INCOME taxes. That's what Obama's proposal is about. PAYROLL taxes also called FICA taxes are 7.65% 6.2% of that is SS and 1.45% is medicaid tax. Everyone pay the 7.65% up until the first $102K( goes up every year ) after that people making more than $102K only pay the 1.45% that's for medicaid. Omama's proposal is that you will still not pay any additional SS tax on income between $102K and $250K. So those making $250K or less( 97% ) will pay ZERO additional dollars in SS taxes. If you make more than $250K that you wil begin paying more on income BAOVE $250K. So like in my example a person making $350K or $100K above $250K will pay $6200 more in PAYROLL taxes. 6.2% X $100K.

Quote:

I still feel it's best to offer much better breaks for individuals and companies who help you setup your own IRA/401K. Right now the tax breaks are minimal (considering there is a real low cap on how much you can invest for retirement). Raise those caps dramatically, especially for people who are over 50 and coming up on retirement (they currently have a "catch-up" limit but it's not nearly enough). Companies should also get breaks for running employee based 401k plans.

right now if you're under 50 you can put up to $5000 in a 401K or IRA or 15% whichever is lower. If you're poor you're not putting anywhere close to that anyways. That my beef how do they expet you to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then invest 15% in a 401K that's 22.65%. If you're making $8 an hour you can't afford to do that. what also sucks is the people get taxed on the 7.65% they never see. The businesses that employee them get to deduct the 7.65% they pay off thier taxes. That's double taxation in my book. anymoney paid out in FICA taxes should be deducted off your adjusted gross income. There's tax break that would apply to ALL.

And you foget with a Roth IRA you pay ZERO taxes when you take that money out.

Quote:

The system is currently fucked up and I think needs an overhaul that goes beyond the simple "lets just take more money from rich guys".

Sure but like you said the old peole get pissed of you you propose any major changes. They let the AARP scare them into thinking they will lose out. People think the AARP is just this organzation that helps old people. No they are one of the most powerful lobbies in DC. Trust me if a presidential candidate proposed raising the retirement age( even if it's decades away ) and other changes the AARP wil protray him as some kind of Hitler. look at what the did with Buh's plan for letting younger people invest some of their SS tax. That would have had ZERO effect on anyone within 10 years of getting SS and yet the AARP convinced the old farts that they would be eating cat food soon.

As long as the old farts vote at double the rate of younger people and younger people don't demand changes in SS, the politicians are going to cater to the old farts.

theking · 06-15-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

The poor typically don't live as long as he rich. And that poor person would be IMMENSLY beter off take the money that he is forced to pay in SS and just even sticking it into simple CDs. So yeah the poor guy is losing money if you look at it that way. And if the poor guy dies before he can collect SS his hiers lose. They get $255.

You realize were talking about PAYROLL taxes in this discussion not INCOME taxes. That's what Obama's proposal is about. PAYROLL taxes also called FICA taxes are 7.65% 6.2% of that is SS and 1.45% is medicaid tax. Everyone pay the 7.65% up until the first $102K( goes up every year ) after that people making more than $102K only pay the 1.45% that's for medicaid. Omama's proposal is that you will still not pay any additional SS tax on income between $102K and $250K. So those making $250K or less( 97% ) will pay ZERO additional dollars in SS taxes. If you make more than $250K that you wil begin paying more on income BAOVE $250K. So like in my example a person making $350K or $100K above $250K will pay $6200 more in PAYROLL taxes. 6.2% X $100K.

right now if you're under 50 you can put up to $5000 in a 401K or IRA or 15% whichever is lower. If you're poor you're not putting anywhere close to that anyways. That my beef how do they expet you to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then invest 15% in a 401K that's 22.65%. If you're making $8 an hour you can't afford to do that. what also sucks is the people get taxed on the 7.65% they never see. The businesses that employee them get to deduct the 7.65% they pay off thier taxes. That's double taxation in my book. anymoney paid out in FICA taxes should be deducted off your adjusted gross income. There's tax break that would apply to ALL.

And you foget with a Roth IRA you pay ZERO taxes when you take that money out.

Sure but like you said the old peole get pissed of you you propose any major changes. They let the AARP scare them into thinking they will lose out. People think the AARP is just this organzation that helps old people. No they are one of the most powerful lobbies in DC. Trust me if a presidential candidate proposed raising the retirement age( even if it's decades away ) and other changes the AARP wil protray him as some kind of Hitler. look at what the did with Buh's plan for letting younger people invest some of their SS tax. That would have had ZERO effect on anyone within 10 years of getting SS and yet the AARP convinced the old farts that they would be eating cat food soon.

As long as the old farts vote at double the rate of younger people and younger people don't demand changes in SS, the politicians are going to cater to the old farts.

The last time I checked the average SS recipient withdrew all that he had paid in...in approximately 3 years. This is up from the 1.5 years it used to be...when an SS recipient only lived an average of 67 years. Now the average life span is higher. That is why some people cannot draw their SS until age sixty-seven (as opposed to 65) and I think some cannot draw until age 69...but I am not sure about 69.

GatorB · 06-15-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

The last time I checked the average SS recipient withdrew all that he had paid in...in approximately 3 years. This is up from the 1.5 years it used to be...when an SS recipient only lived an average of 67 years. Now the average life span is higher. That is why some people cannot draw their SS until age sixty-seven (as opposed to 65) and I think some cannot draw until age 69...but I am not sure about 69.

Ok first you're not counting what his employer also put in. See if there wasn't a SS tax then one would assume and hope that his employer could pay him 7.65 % more in pay of which he could take that part and invest it in a 401K or roth IRA.

You also aren't counting money lost by having money invested in SS vs an IRA or 401K. You can not tell me if a person could take their SS tax and invest it in an IRA or 401K they would not come out better. Hell I could take that money go to the local bank and invest it into CDs and get a better rate.

Ok using the ssa.gov calculator if you make the 2009 minimum wage of $7.25 an hour and assuming you did not get any raises and you started work at 18 in 2004 and worked until 67 in 2053. You would be entitled to $816 a month is SS. It would take you 4 years and 8 months to get back what you put in. Not counting your employers portion and not accounting for any interest. Or the fact that $816 in 2053 is not worth near as much as it was in 2008. In fact taking that money and only making a mere 4% would have yielded 3X the amount. In other words that person could have $2448 a month for those 4 years and 8 months. Or that person could have gotten $816 a month for 16 years. So no mater how you slice it SS is loser for EVERYONE.

pocketkangaroo · 06-15-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

The poor typically don't live as long as he rich. And that poor person would be IMMENSLY beter off take the money that he is forced to pay in SS and just even sticking it into simple CDs. So yeah the poor guy is losing money if you look at it that way. And if the poor guy dies before he can collect SS his hiers lose. They get $255.

And if the rich guy simply put his money into CDs and such, he would be getting back much more than he put in. Both sides lose money, although the rich guy much more so.

A guy who made over $100k for 30 years is putting in nearly $15,000 a year. If he put that into an IRA, he'd have between 2 and 3 million dollars available for him at retirement. This far exceeds anything he'll ever receive from social security. Lets not act like the poor guy is the one getting fucked here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

You realize were talking about PAYROLL taxes in this discussion not INCOME taxes. That's what Obama's proposal is about. PAYROLL taxes also called FICA taxes are 7.65% 6.2% of that is SS and 1.45% is medicaid tax. Everyone pay the 7.65% up until the first $102K( goes up every year ) after that people making more than $102K only pay the 1.45% that's for medicaid. Omama's proposal is that you will still not pay any additional SS tax on income between $102K and $250K. So those making $250K or less( 97% ) will pay ZERO additional dollars in SS taxes. If you make more than $250K that you wil begin paying more on income BAOVE $250K. So like in my example a person making $350K or $100K above $250K will pay $6200 more in PAYROLL taxes. 6.2% X $100K.

That's not entirely true. The employer must match that tax. You have to factor that into the equation (as without the employer having to match the tax, the employer would make more money).

Plus, and I wasn't able to find this, wouldn't the employers be required to match the social security dollars too after $250k? That means that every dollar someone is given over the $250,000 mark actually costs the company $1.07. Perhaps companies will avoid hitting that mark and try to keep their employers under $250,000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

right now if you're under 50 you can put up to $5000 in a 401K or IRA or 15% whichever is lower. If you're poor you're not putting anywhere close to that anyways. That my beef how do they expet you to pay 7.65% in FICA taxes and then invest 15% in a 401K that's 22.65%. If you're making $8 an hour you can't afford to do that. what also sucks is the people get taxed on the 7.65% they never see. The businesses that employee them get to deduct the 7.65% they pay off thier taxes. That's double taxation in my book. anymoney paid out in FICA taxes should be deducted off your adjusted gross income. There's tax break that would apply to ALL.

And you foget with a Roth IRA you pay ZERO taxes when you take that money out.

I agree with you. I personally think you should be able to put in much more than $5000. I'd rather people take care of this shit themselves and not have to worry about it down the line. Having a country full of wealthy old people is not a bad thing (especially for the economy).

I do wish they'd allow those over 50 to put more in too. A lot of people don't even get started on a retirement until it's too late. While you should start early, it's tough with school loans, buying your first home, starting a family, etc.

I was unfortunately not able to qualify for the Roth IRA. I've been told though in 2010 I will be able to make a huge deposit into one as the limits will be removed.

TheSenator · 06-16-2008, 12:03 AM

Listen to http://www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php especially Randi Rhodes and do your fact checking and homework. Listen for a couple of days

then go to http://www.wabcradio.com/ and listen to Rush and Hannity for a couple of days.

Compare the both....

pocketkangaroo · 06-16-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

Listen to http://www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php especially Randi Rhodes and do your fact checking and homework. Listen for a couple of days

then go to http://www.wabcradio.com/ and listen to Rush and Hannity for a couple of days.

Compare the both....

They are both partisan hacks.

spider_x · 08-10-2008, 04:50 PM

democrats are like socialists
very anti-american

You see, communists/socialists believe in human rights over wealth. Uhhh look at china? Obviously communists lie.

So bottom line is only Mccain can save america

brassmonkey · 08-10-2008, 04:52 PM

well you need to look at the damn republicans sending our families into war over oil both bushes and regan

Stellar · 08-10-2008, 04:54 PM

Paying some extra taxes is nothing compared to how much money you can make from a decent economy.

Just look where Bush's bullshit has taken us at the moment.

Quality of life is invaluable.

brassmonkey · 08-10-2008, 05:00 PM

yep gas has went through the roof since 8yr bush era of terror

Iron Fist · 08-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Okay first off I'm just trying to get you to put your angry angst kid nonsense aside for a while, and just talk. Second, I wasn't "calling you out", I merely corrected you on your somewhat skewed view of what "freedom" means, and then asked you in a calm direct manner a couple of questions about the tone of your posts. No more, no less.

Second, as you said, this IS "gofuckyourself"... which means another great thing aside from what you said... that being: you are going to get opinions (like mine) whether you want them or not. Yes, I am Canadian, but if you think for one second that we up here aren't interested in what goes on south of our border you really don't understand Canada, much less Canadian webmasters working in adult. We have a geniune stake in what goes on in the US because much of our income is derived from US companies, and sometimes (as in often) the policies initiated by your government affect our bottom line.

Aside from all that I have friends and much family strewn all through the states. Of course I have a vested interest in what happens to them. But all that aside I actually like the USA. Don't know as I'd want to live there, but I do love travelling on your interstates.

I hope this helps clear up some of that confusion that was spinning around in that head of yours.

Cheers, and have a nice rest of the weekend. :D

I'm only agreeing with you because your from Canada...

Jokes! Good points.. couldn't of said it better myself.

RobAlbaugh · 08-10-2008, 05:30 PM

fuck it, I am all for it especially since I am not part of that bracket!!! Hoo Hah!

DateDoc · 08-10-2008, 05:57 PM

In a recent conversation about tax rates and actual taxes paid (adding in sales tax and all the other taxes we have to pay) with my brother who lives in Switzerland pays about 10% less in taxes than I do and we earn about the same. He gets free health care and a lot of other stuff I do not. Higher taxes are not the answer.

We also do not need to raise the tax rate on anyone to pay off the deficit. Cut the pork out of all these BS bills Congress passes and the deficit will take care of itself. Streamline govt so it works like a business and you will see a surplus. The worst thing that happened to this country in recent years was that Ross Perot was not elected president. He would have run the country like a business and set it up so we were on a track in the right direction instead of the endless Republican?Democrat roller coaster we have today.

Whether you are Republican or Democrat or belong to some other party the best thing you can do for this country is not vote along party lines but vote for the candidate that will do the best job.

Follow these ideas and make the USA as good as it can be:

1. Vote for the best candidate and do not vote based on party affiliation.
2. Get the President the Line Item Veto - yes, the Supreme Court says it is unconstitutional but it can be added to the Constitution as an amendment.
3. Buy American. Put your hard earned money back in our economy.
4. Quit bitching about problems and do something that will help fix them.

DavieVegas · 08-10-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

I saw a graph of how Obama and McCain's taxes would shape up in reality, and Obama would be saving the majority of Americans almost $1000 in taxes every year, for people who make I think $20-40k or thereabouts annually.

For people who make over $2.9m annually, they would be pretty much assfucked, but I think it's the right solution to get America back on track financially.

Message to rich people: you voted republican. Now you have many trillions in debt. Who did you think was going to pay it?

Amen Bruthaaaaaaa

sacX · 08-10-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiplashDug

WHAT RECESSION??????????????? We are not in a recession!!!!!!!! geeeez!

You can say it all you want - but ECONOMISTS and ECONOMIC MEASURES have rules to follow - and the definition of a recession is TWO CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS OF NEGATIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH!!!!

Here's a hint for ya... we haven't even had one much less two - so No recession! Just because CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC and the like say it every night - still don't make it true!!!!

the only reason GDP growth isn't negative ALREADY is because of population growth. If you calculate GDP per capita it has already been negative for several quarters perhaps even longer. Sure the country is still growing, but on an individual basis things are already going backwards.

brassmonkey · 08-10-2008, 09:04 PM

i will say if mccain gets in there we fight another war

spanky part 2 · 08-10-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You mean for the welfare state the democrats want to create?

You must mean the republican welfare state of Iraq.

klaze · 08-10-2008, 09:21 PM

No wonder blacks hate Obama he wants to raise their taxes.

GatorB · 08-10-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

A guy who made over $100k for 30 years is putting in nearly $15,000 a year.

You do realize that after the first $102,000 no SS tax is taken out. The most anyone can get taken out for SS taxes is around $6500. Next time try getting FACTS before spouting off.

Quote:

Plus, and I wasn't able to find this, wouldn't the employers be required to match the social security dollars too after $250k? That means that every dollar someone is given over the $250,000 mark actually costs the company $1.07. Perhaps companies will avoid hitting that mark and try to keep their employers under $250,000.

I'm 100% possitive that a company that can pay an employee $250K can afford the extra tax. Not to mention that company gets to deduct what they pay in SS taxes of that employee off thier taxes anyways.[/QUOTE]

GatorB · 08-10-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerK

so really what you've said in this thread is you don't make shit for money. You would feel differently if you made more then 250k a year.

whatever asswipe. Warren Buffet said he fne with the old upper income tax rates before Bush lower then and said the cpaital gains tax is too low. So using your logic Warren Buffet doesn't make shit for money.

By teh way at $250,000 a year my SS taxes would go up by ZERO. See it's only for incomes OVER $250,000. Say my income was $350,000 So I'd pay an extra $6200 in SS taxes. If that is going to make me or break me then I seriously need to shoot myself in the head. I suggest you start putting your money into investments and quit spending it on hookers and blow.

Snake Doctor · 08-10-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DateDoc

In a recent conversation about tax rates and actual taxes paid (adding in sales tax and all the other taxes we have to pay) with my brother who lives in Switzerland pays about 10% less in taxes than I do and we earn about the same. He gets free health care and a lot of other stuff I do not. Higher taxes are not the answer.

We also do not need to raise the tax rate on anyone to pay off the deficit. Cut the pork out of all these BS bills Congress passes and the deficit will take care of itself. Streamline govt so it works like a business and you will see a surplus. The worst thing that happened to this country in recent years was that Ross Perot was not elected president. He would have run the country like a business and set it up so we were on a track in the right direction instead of the endless Republican?Democrat roller coaster we have today.

Whether you are Republican or Democrat or belong to some other party the best thing you can do for this country is not vote along party lines but vote for the candidate that will do the best job.

Follow these ideas and make the USA as good as it can be:

1. Vote for the best candidate and do not vote based on party affiliation.
2. Get the President the Line Item Veto - yes, the Supreme Court says it is unconstitutional but it can be added to the Constitution as an amendment.
3. Buy American. Put your hard earned money back in our economy.
4. Quit bitching about problems and do something that will help fix them.

We can't base the entire tax policy for the country on yours and your brother's experience. Switzerland does have higher taxes overall than the U.S., they also have a higher standard of living.

The pork in the budget is a red herring. While I do agree it should be cut, and that the President should have a line item veto, pork is a very small percentage of the overall budget and even if you cut out every dollar of it, it wouldn't make a dent in the deficit.

It would be nice to change the entire appropriations process, that way we don't keep military bases open that the pentagon doesn't want just because they are in the district of a powerful committee chairmen.
We also wouldn't be building weapons the pentagon doesn't want just because they're built in the states of other powerful committee chairmen.

The best way to deal with this would be term limits, something that hasn't been part of the national debate for a long time....not since the republicans promised term limits in the contract with America and then reneged once they had the majority. Term limits and public financing would be the solution to alot of our problems....but unfortunately they're not part of the national debate.

Snake Doctor · 08-10-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorB

whatever asswipe. Warren Buffet said he fne with the old upper income tax rates before Bush lower then and said the cpaital gains tax is too low. So using your logic Warren Buffet doesn't make shit for money.

By teh way at $250,000 a year my SS taxes would go up by ZERO. See it's only for incomes OVER $250,000. Say my income was $350,000 So I'd pay an extra $6200 in SS taxes. If that is going to make me or break me then I seriously need to shoot myself in the head. I suggest you start putting your money into investments and quit spending it on hookers and blow.

Well it would be $6200 if your worked for someone else, then they would have to pay the other $6200....if you're self-employed then you'd have to pay 12,600.

HOWEVER, all of these arguments from the right assume the worst case scenario, that the payroll tax on incomes over $250K would be the same as it is on incomes under $102K
That's not very likely....Obama hasn't proposed a specific rate, but alot of analysts think a 2-4% rate in incomes over $250K would be enough.

Snake Doctor · 08-10-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

yep gas has went through the roof since 8yr bush era of terror

Here's an example of how fucked up some people's thinking is.

I live in the south, the deep south. The last democrat to run for congress from here got 22% of the vote...that was this year....and that was twice as many votes as the last democrat got in 2006. (this is a good year for dems)

I'm at the barber shop getting my hair cut, and they have fox news on (as usual) and someone mentions something about politics....the guy cutting my hair says "Yeah, since the democrats took over congress gas prices have skyrocketed and the economy has gone to shit. What does that tell ya?"

I was like WTF??
But since he had a straight razor right above my ear when he said that, I just grunted a little bit and didn't say anything.

Crazy how literally 40% of the country....well actually, make that 80% of the country (40% conservative and 40% liberal) are totally able to ignore all facts and logic and find a way to blame the other side for whatever our problems are....even when their side has had total control of government for however long.

I guess maybe it's a good thing that the 20% who are able to change their minds are usually the ones who decide Presidential elections.

06-14-2008, 10:10 PM	#203
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Wow this got ugly quick. It went from a discussion on taxes to a referendum on tony404's intelligence and Obama's race. Go figure. I guess when you can't defend your position with facts or a reasonable argument the next best thing is to personally attack the person you're having the argument with or change the subject to something like race or electability. It seems the only person still trying to have a reasonable discussion about the tax issue is pocketkangaroo. __________________ sig too big

06-14-2008, 10:33 PM	#209
Mr. Blue Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 536	Would people object to higher taxes if they knew the money would be well spent? I honestly don?t think so, the problem is that it?s usually not well spent. Throwing more money on a problem doesn?t solve the problem. For example, all the pork barrel spending, would you be keen if the extra taxes were basically blown on useless programs that politicians use to buy votes? I can almost guarantee that no one would have a problem with paying higher taxes if they actually saw benefits to the greater good?however, with our current flawed political situation, I don?t want to give an extra penny into the system. ?The Associated Press did an analysis of last year's spending earmarks with the help of the Sunlight Foundation and Taxpayers for Common Sense. They found 11,780 earmarks worth $18.3 billion.? http://blog.washingtonpost.com/washi...looks_clo.html Now, let the government stop diddle-dicking around with earmarks / pork barrel spending, curtail certain other useless expenditures, and proactively reduce fraud in current government programs. If they did all that and they still needed to raise taxes, at that time start the discussion?until they do that every person should be bitching and moaning about wasted tax dollars. __________________ See Sig...oh wait.

06-16-2008, 12:03 AM	#219
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,336	Listen to http://www.novamradio.com/live/stream.php especially Randi Rhodes and do your fact checking and homework. Listen for a couple of days then go to http://www.wabcradio.com/ and listen to Rush and Hannity for a couple of days. Compare the both.... __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

08-10-2008, 04:50 PM	#221
spider_x Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 481	democrats are like socialists very anti-american You see, communists/socialists believe in human rights over wealth. Uhhh look at china? Obviously communists lie. So bottom line is only Mccain can save america __________________ Want to get off the keyboard and get laid? Visit this link now for genuinely seductive mind-blowing sex!

08-10-2008, 04:52 PM	#222
brassmonkey Pay It Forward Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yo Mama House Posts: 77,228	well you need to look at the damn republicans sending our families into war over oil both bushes and regan __________________ TRUMP 2025 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law! DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

06-14-2008, 10:32 PM	#208
pocketkangaroo Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 8,452	I just ignore the people throwing out personal insults and such. This board actually has a lot of intelligent people when you can manuever around the riff-raff. CDSmith, GatorB, Snake Doctor and a few others are able to make a good political discussion. I don't agree with some of GatorB and Snake Doctor's views, but I'd bet I agree with more than they think. I'm actually voting for Obama in November, despite being against this tax measure. There are some things more important to me than money which Obama stands for and McCain doesn't. And I'd vote Democrat more often if they got over this rich vs poor war. I'm not saying that it's necessarily due to their policy, but some of them try to demonize anyone making a good living. Edwards did this a lot which really turns me off. I'm not rich by any means, although I think I make a good living. But it seems like some of the Democrats want to make people think that anyone making money automatically doesn't care about them or the problems effecting them. The last thing this country needs is more reasons to polarize it.

06-14-2008, 11:33 PM	#211
fsudirectory Confirmed User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 216	Sometimes the people at the top need to help out the people below them. You are all too fuckin greedy. Not everyone is lucky enough to be smart and get through college. Workers are still needed in this world and without them it would be hard for 99% of the super rich to have got there.

08-10-2008, 04:54 PM	#223
Stellar So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 611	Paying some extra taxes is nothing compared to how much money you can make from a decent economy. Just look where Bush's bullshit has taken us at the moment. Quality of life is invaluable.

08-10-2008, 05:00 PM	#224
brassmonkey Pay It Forward Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yo Mama House Posts: 77,228	yep gas has went through the roof since 8yr bush era of terror __________________ TRUMP 2025 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law! DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

08-10-2008, 05:30 PM	#226
RobAlbaugh So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 69	fuck it, I am all for it especially since I am not part of that bracket!!! Hoo Hah!

08-10-2008, 05:57 PM	#227
DateDoc Outside looking in. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: To Hell You Ride Posts: 14,243	In a recent conversation about tax rates and actual taxes paid (adding in sales tax and all the other taxes we have to pay) with my brother who lives in Switzerland pays about 10% less in taxes than I do and we earn about the same. He gets free health care and a lot of other stuff I do not. Higher taxes are not the answer. We also do not need to raise the tax rate on anyone to pay off the deficit. Cut the pork out of all these BS bills Congress passes and the deficit will take care of itself. Streamline govt so it works like a business and you will see a surplus. The worst thing that happened to this country in recent years was that Ross Perot was not elected president. He would have run the country like a business and set it up so we were on a track in the right direction instead of the endless Republican?Democrat roller coaster we have today. Whether you are Republican or Democrat or belong to some other party the best thing you can do for this country is not vote along party lines but vote for the candidate that will do the best job. Follow these ideas and make the USA as good as it can be: 1. Vote for the best candidate and do not vote based on party affiliation. 2. Get the President the Line Item Veto - yes, the Supreme Court says it is unconstitutional but it can be added to the Constitution as an amendment. 3. Buy American. Put your hard earned money back in our economy. 4. Quit bitching about problems and do something that will help fix them. __________________ Last edited by DateDoc; 08-10-2008 at 05:59 PM..

08-10-2008, 09:04 PM	#230
brassmonkey Pay It Forward Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yo Mama House Posts: 77,228	i will say if mccain gets in there we fight another war __________________ TRUMP 2025 KEKAW!!! - The Laken Riley Act Is Law! DACA ENDED - SUPPORT AZ HCR 2060 52R - email: brassballz-at-techie.com

08-10-2008, 09:21 PM	#232
klaze So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: Adult Marketing Mecca Posts: 2,167	No wonder blacks hate Obama he wants to raise their taxes.