My super sperm would never fit through a hole in the condom.

They're like fucking tadpoles!

Hey look... I'm not a lawyer, and I can't say exactly what all of the ins and outs are in terms of adoption. What I said applies to regular pregnancies and births as far as I understand the law. This is not legal advice, all that good stuff, etc, etc.

No way. Why put that on some guy you don't know.

then there is male birth control http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3543478/

If your fucking..... your responsible!! What if he gets diseases?? She should pay for that?
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...zw-pamplan.jpg

Abortion is not a option.
When a guy thinks this easy about it, he is not worthy to own a pair of balls.
When a woman thinks easy about this, she is not worthy to have breasts.

The guy will get screwed in the end no matter what.

"..or does he lose the right to make further choices when he agrees to have sexual intercourse?"

You answered your own question.

The kid deserves to be supported; it's not about the father, it's about the kid.

Everybody is ignoring the most important question here:

Amelia who did this to you?

:1orglaugh Being female, I don't have to worry about sperm-jackin' gold-diggers to the same extent the gents do. I think the whole issue has a lot of bearing on women's rights, so it just occurred to me to ask the question. So far, I think it is interesting and a little surprising that more women I come across seem to feel that it shouldn't be all on the guy, than guys I come across do.

The state assumes the role of the biological parent in cases such as this, when the biological parents are too financially and/or morally bankrupt to provide for the child.

I agree but then the question becomes "Is this morally right?"

Your on crack. (Sorry, I like saying that. Has a ring to it. )

You mean me that if I have sex with a woman using protection with the intention of having sex and not a baby, and she pokes holes in or grabs the used condom later and conceives a child without my knowledge, without my consent, and without my permission that I have to pay for it for the next eighteen years?

So the court and rape me over how much I have to pay in child support while restricting my rights to spend time with my child and have no say in how she is raised?

Child support doesn't work. You basically tell one parent he or she is responsible for the upbringing of the child, while the other parent has restricted access to their kids, no say in their upbringing, and tell them that a portion of their salary goes to the other parent?

And we wonder why society is so fucked up. Fathers walk because they can't afford to pay out 30% of their salary to the woman who won't let them see their child.

What a bullshit system. I thank god every day I never knocked anyone up. I have child, by my wife, and we are still going strong.

Nobody ever said life was fair... that being said, I do believe that the father is starting to get his fair due when it comes to the child's upbringing these days, at least much more so than it used to be.

My daddy always said...... you do the crime, you do the time......
Al Bundy always said its only cheating if you get caught......
sex with strangers is like vegas ........ beating house odds may or may not be worth playing but if you do and loose its your ass..... my 2 cents

Just breezed right over the very first word in the thread title did ya? :winkwink:

I say if you are a girl..do not rely on the sperm donor for anything and you will not be disappointed in the long run. IF the guy steps up and acts like a man instead of a whiny cunt.. then you luck out.

The babys well being is the only thing that counts after the initial conception .

Men should have more rights when it comes to making decisions for their child when not in a marriage or committed relationship. I do not think they have the right to demand an abortion or adoption.

Sex can cause babies..... never forget that as you are dick deep in some gold digging pussy , boys...

why do you think i was addressing you? there is a whole conversation going on... ego maniacal much?

I agree with you that things aren't working very well as they are. I never said that the way things are right now is perfect. However, I do believe that babies have the right to support regardless of whether their mother was a gold digging bitch or their father was a loser alcoholic or whatever. The laws happen to agree with me in that respect, but they still have a lot of work to do to set things up so that actual parenting is shared equally.

Also, I don't understand this part: "Fathers walk because they can't afford to pay out 30% of their salary to the woman who won't let them see their child."

They wouldn't have to pay the support unless they, as you put it, "walk" so I'm not sure I follow the logic there.

the issue for most men is that the law also supports the mothers attempts to entrap the father... i.e. the woman that blew a guy in california, ran to the bathroom and inseminated herself and won a claim for child support. the law supports denying the fathers rights as a parent. the law doesn't require the mother to account for how money is being spent or to insure its being spent on the child etc etc etc etc etc etc.

the entire system is backwards and unfair to men. i am not saying that a man should have no obligation... but the system should be a little more balanced.. and the system shouldn't be encouraging women to have child out of wedlock

100 deadbeat dads

this reminds of the Tom Leykis words of wisdom, where he recommends all guys use a condom and pour hot tabasco sauce in the used condom before disposing of it :1orglaugh

You are preaching to the choir here. I agree 100% that things should be FAIR. I also think that the FIRST measure should be what is fair to the CHILD not what is fair to the mother or father. After the child's needs are taken care of, then the parents' needs come in to play, and as long as both are safe and sane people, they should have 50/50 custody and split costs equitably.

If humans got pregnant by a woman laying an egg into a womb-creature, and a man inserting sperm all over it.. then the courts would have an easier time. The womb-creature would decide whats in the best interests of the child until it's born, and both "parents" would be begging for what they consider their basic rights.

Egg donor, sperm donor, womb-creature. Yeah, thats the ticket!

If the condom really broke, I'd go after the condom company.

:2 cents:

It's funny, for a variety of reasons, I think the woman should always put the condom on, but maybe the man should always take it off.

The rights of the child are simply transferred to the adoptive parents (or in some cases to the state).

My ex asked if he could sign away rights to our son when we got divorced and my lawyer said he would only be legally allowed to give up his responsibilities if I had another man willing to take on the responsibility in his place.

And MANY "Fathers" walk because they're selfish lazy bastards. The current laws were created out of a need because, even before they existed, deadbeat parents were abandoning their children.

That's bullshit.

Fathers become deadbeat dads because a large percentage of their income goes to someone who hates them for knocking them up in the first place, and in return all they get is eighteen years of bullshit and little to no say in any decisions about their upbringing.

Let's flip this around - Why does a child always go to the mother? Seems to me these kids need a stable father figure.

I'm married, and my wife and I have a beautiful, healthy, smart seven year old daughter. I'm a part of her life every day and thrilled to death about it. But if you told me you were going to take 30% of my income and I'd have no say on how my daughter was raised and I'd only get to see her once a month on Saturdays for four hours...... I'd kill someone.

My sister in-law has three kids, two from a prior marriage, and one in grade school. The two older kids are in college now. She doesn't make much money to begin with, and because of her job and lack of dependable transportation she decided it would be much better if the child stayed with the father. She no longer collects child support but instead has to pay child support; She lost her house six months ago because she was using the child support to pay for the house. Now that she doesn't have this "income" she couldn't afford to keep her house, and on top of that she has to pay child support to him. Don't get me wrong, she made the right decision - She was unable to properly raise the child because of her job and decided to have the father raise the child. But when she did this she screwed herself and now she's seeing what it's like on the other side of the fence when you pay for the right not to see your child. It's bullshit.

Honestly, when I was an embryo I didn't care about life. I would not have cared if my mother chose abortion. my 0,01$

Its simple really - as a guy - you shouldn't stick it in something you aren't willing to at least deal with for the next 18 years (or life) - and be willing to accept what ever crap you are given.

In so far as its a womans right to choose - its also her responsibility to tell the father in advance. If the father is not named on the birth certirficate - then he should not be heald responsible. Don't run off, have a baby then show up 3, 4 years later expecting to collect child support and then limit the mans contact with the child.

While the dead-beat dad problem warrents strict laws to protect the mother & child and to help with the financial and social burden of raising a child - there is more of a need to create changes in those laws that create and protect the fathers rights as well. And beyond that - the child's rights. Far to often childreen in these situations are used as pawns to manipulate the other parent.

So again - men, boys, lads... if your willing to carry the baggage - dont take the trip!

oops... forgot the most important word in that...


So again - men, boys, lads... if your NOT willing to carry the baggage - dont take the trip!

There are some guys like that, but please tell me you don't actually believe that ALL stories go the same way? It's just not like that all or even most of the time. There still need to be MAJOR improvements made to the system but just because some guys are getting shafted doesn't mean that there are a shit ton of loser men out there as well.

What about guys who pay a fair amount and are able to see their kids 50% of the time but still don't bother to show up to pick them up from school? Because that does happen as well. As a matter of fact, if you want to talk about family members, how about this little gem of a story? My nieces father left her stranded at school the other day because he's a loser idiot. Just didn't bother to show up for her. He was into having a kid before she was born, but once she arrived, he changed his tune. Her mother WANTS her dad to see her, be involved in her life and keep her half the time, but the guy JUST WON'T DO IT. Since he wouldn't do it and she was having to keep the kid 95-100% of the time she did eventually HAVE to ask for support just trying to get by, and was awarded a VERY minimal amount. He refuses to pay, and since he won't get a job except for waiting tables, and since most of his pay is in the form of tips in cash, she can't even get them to garnish his wages. So basically now she has to take care of the kid 95-100% of the time AND pay for everything, yet in the middle of this, she is STILL allowing him to see his daughter on the RARE occasion that he decides to show up. She practically BEGS him to see her, and the little girl just doesn't understand why daddy forgets her at kindergarten.

Now are you telling me this is an isolated situation? You really think there are no deadbeat parents out there who are just plain losers in life and not a pitiful victim of the system? I don't hate dads or men, I have a great dad and know lots of great fathers, but not all guys who impregnate a woman are saintly men who want the best for their children.

So now - ladies, girls, lasses... if your NOT willing to deal with the baggage - dont take the trip!

whats fair to a child is that parents be required to be licensed to have children, requiring them to show proof of income/earnings and education as well undergoing psychological evaluations and parenting training before they are even allowed to have a child and after that, they are closely monitored for parenting competence... if they fuck up and have kids outside that system, both parents should be sterilized.

:winkwink:

Sounds good to me. Less screaming brats to listen to when I go out for dinner.

exactly. i hate that too... parents that have totally tuned out their own kids... yet i have to deal with them because i not only can't tune them out... but wasn't exactly expecting kids to be running around a restaurant screaming while playing I'm a Motherfucking Cop Killer or whatever the hell. I remember when i was little, i got a coloring book and a little tiny crayon nub and if i said anything, i got knocked right out of my chair. times have changed ;)

i am a very quiet and reserved person in real life. but that is one of the few things that will make me to get pissy and confrontational real quick.

That's the problem. None of the situations are the same, and everyone of them has specific circumstances. And I'm sure there are a lot of deadbeat dads out there. But the question is would they be deadbeat dads if they had custody of their children, didn't have to pay to support them, and now collect child support from the mother? No, they wouldn't be deadbeat dads because they wouldn't be spending their income giving it to a ex-lover and not being able to see their children.

Your story is rather interesting and I'm sure it's repeated thousands of times a day. And it's sad. But it sounds to me more like he changed his mind about being a father.

No, not all men are "saintly" and want what's best for their kids. But I bet you most of them are if there was a level playing ground. But when you take a portion of their income and restrict access to their kids and not allow them to be a part of their daily lives, well, it sort of sucks the life out of them.

We call it deadbeat dads because the women typically get the kids. But if you throw the shoe on the other foot it makes no difference. At the end of the day one parent is coming out ahead and has a normal life plus financial support, and on the other hand the other parent is getting brutally fucked in the ass. I mentioned my sister-in-law; She can't afford to make the payments and just lost her house because of it. How does that help the situation?

I know six or seven people that have kids and custody issues. And in every case the one paying the support - man or woman - is getting fucked. My sister-in-law, mentioned above, lost her house and is having problems paying for her apartment. My friend Neal ( who I think I mentioned earlier) has four kids from three different mothers and and pays nearly more in child support than he makes (granted, he should have kept his damn dick in his pants).

I could go on......

I think we need a huge change in the system. Both parents have joint custody and share the financial obligation fifty fifty. How does that work if you live in different states? Spend six months with one parent, and then six months with the other parent. No money trades hands, problems solved.

Wow, this thread got better and better. :upsidedow

You'd think there are armed posses of women scouring the United States forcing men to impregnate them. If you don't want to pay for a child, then it's fairly easy to figure out a solution for avoiding it. But I realize how offensive personal responsibility is to some.

We're not going to sneak into your bedroom at night and siphon the sperm out of you against your will. Honest.

(for free, anyway)

often sex is the result of raging hormones and youthful alcohol excessive consumption, there is often not alot of logical thought and brains involved in the process (haven't you ever heard the "little head took over" train of thought?)

I know it's not an excuse for anyone, but I bet alot of unwanted pregnancies are the result of going with the flow of youthful lust and inebriated exuberance rather than any planning. Young people tend to be of the invincible train of thought as well, youth take risks in all sorts of ways, sometimes they get burned.