ibill, ccbill, epoch - GoFuckYourself.com

nuclei · 10-17-2002, 03:10 AM

Just curious, but we are hearing from other sources about a $1000 fee that mastercard will now start charging merchants who use IPSP's also. were you guys planning to wait til we pay the $750 before hitting us with this fee?

chrism · 10-17-2002, 03:39 AM

http://www.globill-systems.com/

nuclei · 10-17-2002, 03:45 AM

dont spam me :P

auscguy · 10-17-2002, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nuclei
Just curious, but we are hearing from other sources about a $1000 fee that mastercard will now start charging merchants who use IPSP's also. were you guys planning to wait til we pay the $750 before hitting us with this fee?

2 weeks ago, Visa shook up the adult industry and worried quite alot of us...why? Because maybe 70% to 80% of our transactions are with Visa...... if Mastercard want to charge a fee for processing 5% - 10% of our transactions....well, bring it on....see how many of us say cya later MC.

d00t · 10-17-2002, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by auscguy

2 weeks ago, Visa shook up the adult industry and worried quite alot of us...why? Because maybe 70% to 80% of our transactions are with Visa...... if Mastercard want to charge a fee for processing 5% - 10% of our transactions....well, bring it on....see how many of us say cya later MC.

mastercard

auscguy · 10-17-2002, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by d00t

mastercard

u up for some paintballin' dood?

marty · 10-17-2002, 05:15 AM

Who are Mastercard to ask for twice the fee that Visa wants?

Did their management team have a brain fart thinking they are twice as good as Visa?

They can

Validus · 10-17-2002, 07:51 AM

In the end... you'd still be making money... no matter if you have to pay 1000 bucks!

Chris Mallick · 10-17-2002, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nuclei
Just curious, but we are hearing from other sources about a $1000 fee that mastercard will now start charging merchants who use IPSP's also. were you guys planning to wait til we pay the $750 before hitting us with this fee?

This is a PayPal issue only, according to what our banks tell us. We have not been notified by MasterCard, our banks or any party that this is a fee to be charged per Webmaster, as Visa's is being charged. When we are advised of changes, fees, etc... we inform our clients ASAP. So no, nuclei.

I would be interested to know what PayPal's explanation for this is, however, I will bet they won't tell me.

Chris
EPOCH CEO

fsck · 10-17-2002, 09:33 AM

see review billings from www.ccnews.cc

Master_Yoba · 10-17-2002, 09:41 AM

go to offshore before they kill your USA based business

DragonAss · 10-17-2002, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Validus
In the end... you'd still be making money... no matter if you have to pay 1000 bucks [to MC]!

They'd better hurry up. I for one plan on moving our entire paysite business away from IPSPs. Visa may have us by the balls for this round, but only because of the short notice. It's just a matter of finding the right software and some time to implement a new system -- ideally one that accepts many different payment methods and has many cool features.

Before this time next year, CCBill may only be our secondary processor and possibly NOT for Visa (or MC if they decide to go this same route).

It's not so much the fee bullshit or even the registration as it is the demands for keeping below 1% CB ratios. These are friggin HIGH RISK sites for christ's sake! If we ALL kept our chargebacks below 1%, then we aren't exactly that high of a risk anymore are we? They want to make chargebacks easy as pie for their cardholders, demand less than 1 in 100 do chargeback and foot all the responsiblity onto merchants (who can hardly protest chargbacks anyway).

I have no doubt that MC and possibly others will follow suit. If MC thinks they can demand MORE than Visa, however, then they're getting better drugs than I get. The general attitude seems to be fuck Visa

...and they're the dominant payment method doing 60 to 70% of paysite business.

I will drop MC in a heartbeat if they try pulling similar crap.
Hell, I contemplated dropping them over the logo thing.

Master_Yoba · 10-17-2002, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonAss

It's not so much the fee bullshit or even the registration as it is the demands for keeping below 1% CB ratios. These are friggin HIGH RISK sites for christ's sake! If we ALL kept our chargebacks below 1%, then we aren't exactly that high of a risk anymore are we? They want to make chargebacks easy as pie for their cardholders, demand less than 1 in 100 do chargeback and foot all the responsiblity onto merchants (who can hardly protest chargbacks anyway).

Make business offshore and you'll get 2.5% charge back level

CoolE · 10-17-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonAss
It's not so much the fee bullshit or even the registration as it is the demands for keeping below 1% CB ratios. These are friggin HIGH RISK sites for christ's sake! If we ALL kept our chargebacks below 1%, then we aren't exactly that high of a risk anymore are we?

No offense man but if you can't keep your chargebacks below 1% then you are one of the people/companies who got us into this mess. There is no reason whatsoever for any site to have more than 1 in 100 charges to be charged back unless you are doing something unethical.

I for one am glad to hear that you are moving away from IPSPs - then maybe Visa will leave the rest of us alone.

vik · 10-17-2002, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

No offense man but if you can't keep your chargebacks below 1% then you are one of the people/companies who got us into this mess. There is no reason whatsoever for any site to have more than 1 in 100 charges to be charged back unless you are doing something unethical.

I for one am glad to hear that you are moving away from IPSPs - then maybe Visa will leave the rest of us alone.

Did you just start your porn site yesterday?

CoolE · 10-17-2002, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by vik

Did you just start your porn site yesterday?

Well actually just this morning. Thanks for contributing to the conversation though.

1% CB is easy to keep under unless you fuck around with the members, like hide your cancel links or have automatic upsells (sign up once but you have to cancel twice), or have no content other than upsells.

hitman699 · 10-17-2002, 10:43 AM

I agree with dragon ass. 1% is rediculous especially with Visa excepting every charge back that comes there way. Im rarely over 1% but there are definatly times im over by a half a percent or so. Neverming if your someone just starting out . First month you get 50 customers and 1 charges back because of his wife your over. with a 1% charge back rate we ALL should be low risk merchants and visa should be kissing our ass.

vik · 10-17-2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

Well actually just this morning. Thanks for contributing to the conversation though.

1% CB is easy to keep under unless you fuck around with the members, like hide your cancel links or have automatic upsells (sign up once but you have to cancel twice), or have no content other than upsells.

It's damn near impossible to keep charge-backs under 1%. I've been doing this shit since 1997, and I run as tight of site as humanly possible. If I get an e-mail to cancel an account, it's not done next week, it's not done tomorrow, it's done within 1 hour of the e-mail. Yet in Dec. 1999, when my first processor had his accounts frozen by both Visa and MC, while working closely with his daughter regarding my charge-backs, you wouldn't believe the stories she heard (some other posters have stories covered in a different thread). I had one guy cb with my old cc proc twice until I got him banned, then when I switched over to CCBILL, guess who was one of the 1st signups under my new processor? That's right, that same asshole. Naturally the first thing I did was refund his money and have him banned again.

I don't care how good you think you are as a webmaster, all it takes is a few asshole surfers or underage kids with daddys' cc to fuck up your cb ratio in 1 week, plus the fact we as webmasters using 3rd party scrubbers have no control over who is or isn't on their scrub list. Add to that Visa "No questions asked" on refunds, where do you think your cb ratio will be in a few months or a year. Wait until you get cb's from 6 months of logins that get cb 6 months after they non-renew, saying they never got the content, even though you have logs to prove it. I've been there, is has the majority of webmasters on this board. Why the hell do you think everyone is raising such a fucking ruckuss?

I've always had one of the lowest cb ratios possible (at least that's what I've been told), but I have no idea what it is at this point, but I would be surprised if it's not already hovering around 1%. There are goinng to be very few re-curring sites that can stay under 1% as long as Visa has such liiberal rules on refunds.

vik

nuclei · 10-17-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE

No offense man but if you can't keep your chargebacks below 1% then you are one of the people/companies who got us into this mess. There is no reason whatsoever for any site to have more than 1 in 100 charges to be charged back unless you are doing something unethical.

I for one am glad to hear that you are moving away from IPSPs - then maybe Visa will leave the rest of us alone.

mmm just off the boat eh?
dude, the majority of chargebacks for adult sites are due to wifey seeing the cc statement and wondering why there are charges to XXX sites and asing hubby who swears he doesnt do things like that.

SykkBoy · 10-17-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vik

I don't care how good you think you are as a webmaster, all it takes is a few asshole surfers or underage kids with daddys' cc to fuck up your cb ratio in 1 week, plus the fact we as webmasters using 3rd party scrubbers have no control over who is or isn't on their scrub list.

...and don't forget how cut throat this business is below the surface and when things start getting tight, I wouldn't be suprised if a few program owners used to being top dogs finding themselves eating everyone else's shit start some dirty tricks against that very competition.....

quiet · 10-17-2002, 11:50 PM

cb % for 12 months, oct 01 to sept 02 - for a single paysite:

EscortBiz · 10-17-2002, 11:54 PM

The truth is all they want is the real info of webmaster owners thats all, I don't know why they have to dress it up with a fee.

DragonAss · 10-18-2002, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoolE
No offense man but if you can't keep your chargebacks below 1% then you are one of the people/companies who got us into this mess. There is no reason whatsoever for any site to have more than 1 in 100 charges to be charged back unless you are doing something unethical.

I for one am glad to hear that you are moving away from IPSPs - then maybe Visa will leave the rest of us alone.

I don't know what's unethical about the site ('tis in my www link). The cancel links are there, the tour is straight forward, no plague of upsells inside the member's area, 95% original content as seen on the tour, yada yada. If a customer has any problems, can't find the cancel button(s) or just wants a refund, all is generally taken care of without question and as soon as possible.

We don't cram the site down people's throats with SPAM and don't use an affiliate program. You'll also notice we don't have any trials and the recurring subscriptions are charged at the same amount as single billings, not jacked up in price. Prices are relatively low to begin with and, on one of our sites, we even charge $5 LESS for the recurring months (before CCBill ever had loyalty discounts).

Our main problem is that we're probably not aggressive enough in shoving the site down surfer's throats. This isn't a mega-site by any means and it focuses on the original content at hand. This also means we have a small customer base (for the past year or two) and it only takes a few chargebacks to fling the ratio up to 5, 10 and 20% in a given week. On the other hand, many of the weeks have 0% ratios.

Ah screw it... here are the CB ratios for the BGP site:

-------------------------------
SubAccount: 0000

-- Week --| CC's |eChecks
2001-10-14 0.00% 0.00%
2001-10-21 0.00% 0.00%
2001-10-28 5.55% 0.00%
2001-11-04 0.00% 0.00%
2001-11-11 0.00% 2.98%
2001-11-18 0.00% 2.38%
2001-11-25 0.00% 2.98%
2001-12-02 0.00% 0.00%
2001-12-09 0.00% 0.00%
2001-12-16 0.00% 0.00%
2001-12-23 0.00% 0.00%
2001-12-30 0.00% 0.00%
2002-01-06 0.00% 0.00%
2002-01-13 15.00% 5.00%
2002-01-20 0.00% 3.23%
2002-01-27 0.00% 0.00%
2002-02-03 5.40% 0.00%
2002-02-10 0.00% 0.00%
2002-02-17 0.00% 0.00%
2002-02-24 0.00% 0.00%
2002-03-03 0.00% 0.00%
2002-03-10 0.00% 11.66%
2002-03-17 0.00% 0.00%
2002-03-24 0.00% 0.00%
2002-03-31 0.00% 0.00%
2002-04-07 0.00% 0.00%
2002-04-14 0.00% 0.00%
2002-04-21 0.00% 6.25%
2002-04-28 0.00% 0.00%
2002-05-05 0.00% 0.00%
2002-05-12 0.00% 0.00%
2002-05-19 0.00% 0.00%
2002-05-26 0.00% 0.00%
2002-06-02 0.00% 5.00%
2002-06-09 0.00% 8.33%
2002-06-16 0.00% 0.00%
2002-06-23 0.00% 0.00%
2002-06-30 0.00% 0.00%
2002-07-07 0.00% 16.67%
2002-07-14 0.00% 0.00%
2002-07-21 0.00% 0.00%
2002-07-28 0.00% 0.00%
2002-08-04 0.00% 0.00%
2002-08-11 0.00% 0.00%
2002-08-18 0.00% 0.00%
2002-08-25 0.00% 0.00%
2002-09-01 0.00% 0.00%
2002-09-08 0.00% 0.00%
2002-09-15 0.00% 0.00%
2002-09-22 0.00% 0.00%
2002-09-29 20.90% 0.00%
2002-10-06 0.00% 0.00%
------------------------------------

I hope those weren't all Visa chargebacks for CC's.

So... would a Visa rep look at the one or two bad months and say "fuck you, good-bye"? I dunno. Do I want this kind of decision in the hands of someone who sees me as a peon in the sea of adult scum... or in the hands of my merchant service provider whom I have a 5+ year good standing history?

Decsions decisions....

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10-17-2002, 03:10 AM	#1
nuclei old school fart Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,015	ibill, ccbill, epoch Just curious, but we are hearing from other sources about a $1000 fee that mastercard will now start charging merchants who use IPSP's also. were you guys planning to wait til we pay the $750 before hitting us with this fee? __________________ The next generation of SEO

10-17-2002, 03:45 AM	#3
nuclei old school fart Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,015	dont spam me :P __________________ The next generation of SEO

10-17-2002, 09:41 AM	#11
Master_Yoba Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dagobah Posts: 1,273	go to offshore before they kill your USA based business __________________ WATCH MORE PORN

10-17-2002, 11:50 PM	#21
quiet we'll miss you our friend. RIP Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Fernie, BC Posts: 25,115	cb % for 12 months, oct 01 to sept 02 - for a single paysite: __________________ we'll miss you our friend. RIP

10-17-2002, 11:54 PM	#22
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	The truth is all they want is the real info of webmaster owners thats all, I don't know why they have to dress it up with a fee. __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-17-2002, 03:39 AM	#2
chrism Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 256	http://www.globill-systems.com/

10-17-2002, 05:15 AM	#7
marty Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,656	Who are Mastercard to ask for twice the fee that Visa wants? Did their management team have a brain fart thinking they are twice as good as Visa? They can

10-17-2002, 07:51 AM	#8
Validus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 4,012	In the end... you'd still be making money... no matter if you have to pay 1000 bucks!

10-17-2002, 09:33 AM	#10
fsck Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 20	see review billings from www.ccnews.cc

10-17-2002, 10:43 AM	#17
hitman699 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 159	I agree with dragon ass. 1% is rediculous especially with Visa excepting every charge back that comes there way. Im rarely over 1% but there are definatly times im over by a half a percent or so. Neverming if your someone just starting out . First month you get 50 customers and 1 charges back because of his wife your over. with a 1% charge back rate we ALL should be low risk merchants and visa should be kissing our ass.

10-18-2002, 05:31 AM	#24
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