pimplink

http://www.plastic.com/article.html?...89;mode=nested

In California, even if you are NOT the biological father of the child your wive conceived while separated from you, you still have to pay for the child. Sound Fair? Sound Just?

How bout the child? What about fairness for the child and looking out for the child's best interest? What about preserving the social role of "father"?

playa

thats not just a california law

the court assumes that since there married the husband is the father,,

my advice to anyone that have kids is to give the mother whatever she wants and keep the records of paying. avoid the courts at all costs.. the man already has the disadvantage and you will get fucked royaly

pr0

wear a condom & never marry

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pimplink

Interesting advice.

Keev

its fucked up, ruins it for the honest hardworking guys.

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pimplink

There was a recent bill that passed through both California legislative houses. It got vetoed by Gray Davis b/c he felt it may be used as a "weapon" by biological fathers to skip out of their obligations.

Its a tough issue since there are many heavy social interests to juggle. But it does feel UNFAIR to be saddled with 18 years of financial responsibility for something your wife did behind your back.... kinda rubs salt into the wound of infidelity. Then again, it is NOT the child's fault.

Rochard

My girlfriend works for the state in a "Child Welfare & Enforcement" agency. You would not believe the shit that goes on in these agencies. They have monthly contests to see who can collect the most amount of money.

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Mr.Fiction

It's probably better to get stuck with child support than fucking alimony. At least with child support, even if you're getting screwed, at least it's supposed to help a kid. With alimony, it's supposed to, what, feed your ex wife's (or husband's) fat face for no good reason?

I don't have to deal with either, but I would probably be more pissed off about paying some ex-spouse I hate than about paying for kids I didn't own. Neither sounds very fun, though.

DjSap

if a woman doesn't want to keep a baby and support it she can get an abortion...
if a man doesn't want to keep a baby and support it he can't do shit...

we are discriminated, a man should be able to say i wont pay child support if he feels he doesn't want a baby...we need to give an "abortion" option for men...

pimplink

Here's an interesting note on the subject ....from a wife's perspective:

One thing that people may not realise is that often the mother doesn't know that the man isn't the father until the paternity test is done. She may not be duping anyone, for example:




Man A and Woman A live together, they don't use condoms anymore, woman not on the pill, say contraception of choice is diaphragm. In the natural course of relationship diaphragm has been forgotten at various times. Woman has sex one night with a stranger, uses a condom. Some time later realises she's pregnant.


Does it seem unreasonable to assume that the person who got her pregnant is the one she has sex with a lot, rather than the person she had sex with once, and used a condom? A lot of men and women commit adultery while still loving their partners (in fact there is a lot to be said for the argument that monogamy isn't natural). Yes relationships often break up over it, but that is usually not the intention when the deed happens.

You probably also have a case of wishful thinking at times, as in the woman refusing to contemplate that the baby could be anyone else's but her partner.

If the woman remarries, and is a financially secure position, I see no reason why the father should be paying child support if he agrees to also give up all his rights towards the child (visits etc). I think that could apply whether or not the man was the biological father.

In the case of casual relationships - get a paternity test as soon as she announces she's pregnant.

playa

the whole child support system is fucked up,,
and the man always gets fucked,

i ain't got no problems with paying your child
and that should be something that every man
does,,

but some of the amounts are just crazy and you really think all the money goes to the child,, LOL

Joe Sixpack

There is only one answer: Mandatory paternity tests at birth for ALL newborns.

pimplink

You raised a VERY VERY IMPORTANT point. The CHOICE issue although normally belonging to women solely---impacts men A LOT because of the financial consequences.

UnseenWorld

I heard of a case where even an unmarried man who had merely lived with a single mom for a while got stuck for child support even after he handed the court conclusive DNA evidence he was not the father.

CONCLUSION: As noted by Tom Leykis in his top-ranked radio show: Never date (and certainly never move in with!) an unmarried or divorced mother.

Well-intentioned legislators, agencies, and courts, who want to make sure that children get adequate financial support, are actually screwing things up majorly for unmarried/divorced women seeking new partners, since virtually any dating or sexual relationship withsuch a woman can make you responsible for her child(ren).

The result is that these women are now becoming pariahs.

On a tangent, I think that any woman who goes out and intentionally has a child without giving it a father should be taken out and shot!

I understand that people get divorced. Shit happens. However, to intentionally bring a child into the world without a father is selfish and self-indulgent. There is not law saying that every women HAS to have a child merely because she wants one.

(And yes, I was simply being hyperbolic with the "taken out and shot" remark.)

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untitled

the answer to our problem:

ONE NIGHT STANDS

just forget about her and if she gets pregnant let some other chump get stuck with the kid.

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Dragon Curve

That is fucking bullshit. I don't know about the laws here, but that truly is fucking bullshit.

The whole equality of gender has totally swapped scales from men being favoured to women being favoured. Yes flame this post at will but it's true. As is with racism. So much propaganda has built up finally to equality and now it's tipping the scales.

Hey why don't they just pick random people to support children of single mothers. Maybe it can be like a forced lottery. "And now for this week's lotto results.. numbers 45 20 and 13 - YOU'VE WON CHILD SUPPORT FOR MARY JOE FROM CALIFORNIA!" That's how it may as well be now.

Society really has some issues.

Amputate Your Head

Yeah.... child support laws are fucked. I've been getting fucked by them for a long damn time now.

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mjrools23

thats some fucked up shit...

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Slick

I'll have to disagree with you on that comment. My father-in-law had a child with his ex-wife and for many years, he paid his ex-wife nice money to take care of the child directly to her, not going through the courts.

Well, after many years of paying, his ex-wife got a bug up her ass and went to the courts and they made him pay the money all over again. He had all of the checks saved for proof, but the court said that since it didn't go through the court, that it doesn't count. I know that if I was him, I would've went down there and strangled the bitch.

RockDaddy

I usually only think about this issue once a month (when I'm making out my exortion check). You guys seriously fucked up my whole morning

Some more that's wrong.


Father takes $ from his paycheck and sends it to his ex wife who adds $ to her paycheck. (the scales are tipping)

Ex wife has a well off "boyfriend" that she's lived with for over 6yrs but because they aren't "married", they don't take his income into account.

Ex wife is living large, ex-husband/father/fucking idiot has to live on whatever is left out of his income.



dammit

PersianKitty

There is of course two sides to this issue...

But I've always felt that the child support system should be changed so that the funds a paying parent pays goes into an 'account' and the receiving parent uses a type of debit card to pay for things for the child out of that account. Only certain types of purchases would be allowed and only in certain amounts. That way the receiving parent couldn't use the funds to buy all the groceries in the house and use their own money for their own devices, etc. Then there would also be an accounting of where the money was spent available to the paying parent.

Nbritte

From personal experience I think that the courts suck when it comes to child support and fair treatment in regards to custody. I was married to a lady for 5 years and we have one daughter. When we got our divorce I was paying her 350 a month on my daughter with I didnt have a problem with paying but a few years later when I took her back to court over custody we spend a year in court, while my daughter spent a year in foster care because my ex wife went to jail. Now this is the way the court looked at things. My ex had custody and went to jail which resulted in Social Services taking my daughter from her. I went to court to get custody and get my daughter out of foster care. I spent over 10k and a year in family court before the Judge finally signed the custody papers but to make the story short. The judge told me that he could not order social services to return my daughter to me because "he did not know me" (this is the same judge that signed the original custody order giving My ex and me joint custody with her being the primary provider) Basicly because I was the father my rights extended to paying child support and visitation. In the mean time my ex got out of jail and got a good paying job when the courts decided to make her pay child support the amount she was ordered to pay was 1/3 of what I had to pay with my ex working a job that paid more then the one I was working. If anyone even remotly belives that when you enter into family court that men and women are treated the same they are foolish.

Brian

PersianKitty

In my case I was the parent making the $$.. it cut the amount that my ex was supposed to pay by tons. In Washington state, the amount of support is determined by the total income of the two parents, then the parent without custody pays the parent with custody whatever his percentage of that amount is, based on what percentage his income is of the total. Now I know in most instances the guy makes more so if he hasn't got any custody at all, he pays the higher percentage. Both parents are able to go back to court at any time to get these amounts adjusted based on their current circumstances.

As for me... I rarely saw my support checks.. Raised my kids pretty much myself. There were times years back when that check would of meant the difference between mac and cheese and an occasional real meal.

RockDaddy

I think things should be split 50/50. It's not my fault if you are uncapable of earning a substantial income.

You spend $400 a month in groceries, there are 4 people in the house, then my childs share is 1/4 of that , $100. That $100 should be split 50/50 between the mother and father. Here's my $50.

Babysitting cost $200/mo? Here's my $100

Clothes cost $200/mo? Then you better stay out of the damn mall and start hitting some garage sales and thrift stores like every other American family that isn't living off my paycheck is doing when things are tight.

There are no more "incentives" for being married. Get married, wife sits around the house doing nothing and then winds up on The Wetlands fucking your whole neighborhood, you get divorced and give her 1/2 of everything plus possibly some alimony depending on where you live.

Throw in a kid or two, (worse if you get stuck for child support and it's not your kid) and you're fucked for the next 18 yrs or longer if they go to college.

The system is definately set up where the woman can make out like a bandit. Womens lib, equality, etc.. but the support system hasn't caught up yet.

RockDaddy

That's the part that is killing me. I have no problem supporting my kids, they are mine and I love them.

It pisses me off though because my ex is living with someone for many years now who makes a lot of money but they don't consider than when setting my support amounts because they aren't "married".

He's living in my house, watching my tv, sitting on my old couch, getting to enjoy my children everyday, even has them calling him daddy but they don't count his income. More for them, less for me. That's the part that sucks. $1100/mo I send them. That's like an extra job for them without any of the labor.


Ok, I'm just venting.
Thanks for listening.

Chris Stewart

Its crazy reading this post because i'm in a situation currently
where the mother of my 4 year old is trying to take me to court..
We where never married and at one time she said she didn't know who the father was... Beeyotch! Now for the past 4 years
I've been giving 20% of my income which is Ga state law..
Now the girl wants roughly 40% of my income..
Another situation where the boyfriend is very well off and the money never makes it to my baby girl..
The cash goes straight to the mall..
she actually said last week that she was tired of my little girl getting new clothes and took back the things I bought her so she could get herself some new shoes.... hahaha!
I was like, are you fucking serious?

PK is right about the debit Idea.
Something needs to change.

thefreakybeaver

I don't agree with the law in the first post either. I do know that my sister left her hubby but they are still married. She then moved in with and got pregnant by her bf in NC.

When the hospital found out she was legally married, they wouldn't let her put the bf name on the birth certificate. She HAD to put hubbys name. The hubby doesn't pay any support for his 3 biological kids so this new child means no more to him at this time. I however think Paternity tests should be allowed to clear that matter up so the REAL father will be on the birth certificate. I don't think anyone man or woman should be paying for a child that is not biologically theirs, unless there was a CLOSE bond where the child percieves that person as their parent and vice versa.


I however am a mom with sole custody not receiving support consistently. I just went to court and the father has to pay $41/week for 2 kids. Now you tell me that this is enough??

I agree with PK on the debit idea, but the main focus of child support is so that the child/children live the same as they did before the separation, etc. It is so the kids enjoy the same type of lifestyle and to also lessen the blow of the separation itself. It's to prevent a non working mom and her kids from living in a home to living in the car because the parents split up etc.

Okay let's say it should be 50/50. After reading the below costs of raising a child, how many of you would want to pay 50% of EVERYTHING it takes to raise these kids?

You may be surprised that most noncustodial parents don't even come close to paying 50% of how the child was USED to living when the relationship was intact or even living a normal low class or middle class life.

I'm going to go crazy on expenses here to try to prove a point that it is MUCH more expensive to raise children than most imply here. Not a flame or an argument, just some food for thought.

Add up 50% of
Mortgage/Rent
electric bill
car insurance
HEATING and/or Air Conditioning bill
School Clothing
Winter Clothing
Spring Clothing
Fall Clothing
rubbish removal (no public removal here)
Just grew out of everything in the last week Clothing
excise tax
water bill
over the counter meds for colds, etc
sewer bill
Gas for car
Tooth Fairy
Santa Clause
Easter Bunny
Valentine cards for school
house tax
road tax
Sports/extracurricular activities cost and supplies cost
house insurance
field trips
electricity
school photos
school lunches
3 meals day plus snacks
Food for friends who hang out
Dental/Medical Bills
presents for friend's bday parties
everyday toys, activity supplies to enhance their minds
diapers
formula
supplies (stoller, crib, etc.)
laundry soap
dish detergent
cleaning supplies

I could come up with more but I'll stop here LOL


I realize some of the above would not apply to some depending on where they live and some may merge with others, age of kids, etc, but I think you get the idea.

Do you still want the law to change to 50% of everything it costs to raise a child? Being the custodial parent, I would vote for a new law like this in a second!!!!!!!

Sly_RJ

PARENTS: Show this thread to your teenage children tonight. Damn, what a deterrent...

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UnseenWorld

Women almost routinely get custody of the children, though statistics show that, with the smallest children, most of the physical abuse and neglect is at the hands of the mother, not the father.

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pink_in_the_middle

Number 1...if a man doesn't want to have or keep a baby then he shouldn't be sticking his dick in or near a vagina!When he decided to stick his dick in her he decided to take that chance "what incase" she gets pregnant. Once you've stuck your dick in her its not up to you or her anymore to decide whats going to happen (it's up to nature).If you don't want to pay child suppost think about what you're doing before...think long and hard! (no pun intended)

You're right,women have the last say in what they do with their unborn child but if you didn't want a baby then think before you act.A moment of passion can lead to many many yrs. of responsibility.

I personally don't believe in abortion.Why?
Well because me and him either had sex unprotected,planned it or the b.c didn't work.
It's not the unborn child's fault,he/she didn't ask to be brought into this world. And do you know how many women/men can't have kids?
Why kill a child because of something you did? Because you don't want to take responsibility for something you did?

So many ppl can't have kids why not give him/her up for adoption? Let soemojne else care for your baby and give that child a chance at life.

If I was raped then I would have the baby and give him/her up for adoption. Wpme listen to their man if he wants to kill it and I totally think their fucking stupid !!!

I have three kids.My 1st one was planned,second was not (but we didn't use anything to prevent it) and the third one we deffinatly didn't want (used precautions if once in a while). Hell I would never give any of them up for the universe.

If you're ever in a postion where you don't know what to do THINK LONG AND HARD and do alot of research on having it,abortion and adoption.

I just don't understand the concept of having an abortion? They would rather kill their child then let someone else take care of it !!? Does that make any sence?
I think that sometimes when a girl is deciding or has had an abortion she's too wrapped up in what her family,friends etc will think of her if she actually has the baby. Thats extremly selfish in my opinion.

Have a look on abortion tv and tell me that you would do this to your baby.

Sorry for going on about this I just feel EXTREMLY strongly on this subject.

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Sly_RJ

Holy fucking shit. From the first paragraph by pink I thought I was going to have some fun. After reading it all I was very surprised.

Nice post.

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pink_in_the_middle

regardless if it all goes to the child ,as long as he/she is taken care of thats the bottom line. If your ex spends it on the rent,food pphone whatever...as long as the kids taken care of.And if you know the kids not being taken care of then thats your right to report it.

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Juge

There was a great article on reader's digest about deadbeat dads. The only thing I can find on the net is:

http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2001/04/deadbeat.html

Bascially the original article said that in the majority of cases the picture made about the deadbeat dad was untrue. Because of the myth, fathers get hit hard in the courts. The showed one guy who makes $150,000/yr, and was paying $7,000/mo to his wife. I think $4,000/mo in alimony and another $3,000/mo for child support. The guy said after taxes, he has $300/mo left to himself. The courts obviously don't give a fuck, and don't even understand the tax system.

RockDaddy

Then they should just let the kids go with the bread winner and they can continue to live that way. So far as the expences go, I'm not talking about paying 1/2 of all of your bills. Child or no child, you still need elect, etc.. how much elect. do you think an 8 yr old uses anyway.

I also raise one of my biological kids and two that aren't mine. Having three kids in the house doesn't really noticebly increase my expences for anything other than food.

My wife is a thrifty shopper and the clothing thing (being the biggest expence really, besides insurance) is not really a issue. All of my kids wear name brand clothes but she doesn't pay name brand prices. It's all about making a dollar stretch and it IS possible.

Like I said before, nearly all of the expences you listed are expences you would have to pay even if you were without children.

I think also in the case where the father would like to raise his children, there should be some offset based upon the fact that you get to enjoy them on a daily basis. Like the expression on their face when they get money from the "tooth fairy".

If you can't afford to support your kids, give them to the parent that can if they want them. Why do I have to support you also, pay your garbage bill, road tax, etc..?? Get a student loan and educate yourself if you need to. Once we are divorced YOU are not MY responsibility anymore.

Thanks again,
feeling better with each post

I think "vasectomy commercials" should be a part of the "public service announcement" system. I would happily dedicate some of my time.

pink_in_the_middle

How is that selfish? It's only selfish if you're using that child to get the father back. It's selfich is you think it's wrong to bring a baby into the world without a father.So what kill all the babies that don't have daddys? HELL WTF ARE YOU THINKING?????

Women have been know to be able to care for themselves and their child without any assistance from any man. We can make it in this world by ourselves. That women who has a baby without a father (because of whatever reasons) will find a man if she wants to. And when that man comes along and loves her and her child he will not care if he has to pay child suppost even if it's not his child.

He will become the daddy. Any man that is willing to take responsibility over another mans "unwanted child" has my utmost respect.

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RockDaddy

Oh, and try and imagine a hardworking guy who got fucked around on by his ex-wife and divorced.

She has her income, her boyfriends income and a large percentage of yours.

Now, HE still has to pay most of these things you listed above that you would like help paying like...

Mortgage/Rent
electric bill
car insurance
HEATING and/or Air Conditioning bill
Work Clothing
Personal Clothing
rubbish removal (no public removal here)
excise tax
water bill
over the counter meds for colds, etc
sewer bill
Gas for car + Insurance
Santa Clause = still buys kids and others presents
house tax
road tax
house insurance
electricity = dayum, you listed this one twice
3 meals day plus snacks = he also eats
Food for friends who hang out
Dental/Medical Bills
laundry soap
dish detergent
cleaning supplies
phone

Now take his $1600/mo bring home after taxes. (we're talking about the average joe here, not some hollywood celeb), fork over $800 to the ex and try to live on the rest.

pink_in_the_middle

It's ppl like you that should be shot
Grow up!! If you don't want to have a relationship with the person you're with then maybe you should rethink if you should even be with them.

Not only is pregnancy and issue with one night stands there's also STD's. Why risk getting something for what? A fuck! Com'on ppl think

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Mr.Fiction

Idiotic comment from someone who sounds like he has a problem with women in general.

As far as the person who said he/she was against abortion, that's great that you don't believe in it, but I hope you believe it should be legal. There are a lot of people who don't believe in porn, or homosexuality, or christianity, or any number of other things. The great thing about living in America, or any free society, is that we have freedom. The right for a woman to choose what she does with her own body is part of that freedom. If you don't personally choose to have an abortion, and you don't think it's right, that's one thing. Trying to force everyone else to do something just because you don't like it, is wrong and it goes against the very principle of freedom.

pimplink

OMG. You break your back to make $150k a year [sounds like moderate webmaster] and only keep $300 a month? WTF. Sounds like an incentive to STOP working. DAMN.
BVF posted about something like this earlier.

ColKurtz

Best Advice:

Never get married.

Never live with a girl and share expenses etc.

Get a vesectomy. That way when some bitch tries to pin a kid on you, you can laugh in her fucking face.

pink_in_the_middle

Fucking shit !!! lol I had a long ass post and I sent it and it said "cannot find server" !!!
Okay I'll make this short and sweet. I'm against abortions and I personaly think it should be illigal but I also understand why it's not. I really wish ppl took life seriously. A human life is not something to just throw away.

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pink_in_the_middle

I could never give up my little rugrats

not too good of a pic though

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Amputate Your Head

typical.... it's always our fault isn't it.

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pink_in_the_middle

it's not your fault if you're not one of those men

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Scootermuze

Don't know how the laws are in your state, but if your ex is living with a man and not married, and has your children living there as well.... seems to me that you could do somethin about that..
Having you talked to your attorney about your kids being forced to live with a man who isn't married to their mother?

pimplink

I'm not sure there is an option if the woman has legal custody.

thatdykeliz

What magical wonderland are y'all living in where child support payments actually get PAID?

I got divorced from my 1st husband over eight years ago. (He left me, BTW -- I had an 18 month old child, jack shit to my name, bruises from my last beating, and nowhere to live, asshole kicked me out.) The court ruled that he owed me $130 a mo. in child support. A year later, after having received maybe $300 all told over the course of the last year, I took him to court, and they ruled to garnish his wages.

So he quits his job and goes to work in a friend's warehouse -- said friend agreed to pay him under the table so that "that bitch ex-wife" wouldn't get his money. Meanwhile, I'm on food stamps and welfare AND working to keep my baby fed. After that, he moved from minimum-wage job to minimum-wage job, and moving from town to town, keeping just ahead of the garnishment paperwork, so I got nothing.

And I've continued to get nothing -- but it doesn't make any difference now anyway. I make a good living, I'm off all gov't assistance (have been for 6 years now) and my child's needs are taken care of, my rent is paid on time, and I don't need his piddly $130 a month.

If you want to bitch about men getting shafted with unfair child support payments, thank fucksticks like my ex for being deadbeats and making the men who try to keep up with payments and take care of their responsibilities look bad.

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pink_in_the_middle

You tell'em sista! lol Good for you
If the bastard can't pay don't ever let him see his kid!

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mrthumbs

Disturbing..

untitled

a one night stand isn't a relationship and if a woman thinks fucking a stranger is the beginning of a relationship then she's stupid.

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