So stop wasting your time chasing him up, get another job and support your family yourself. I know plenty of single mothers who don't receive child support payments and are surviving.

If she didn't want the god damn child because the father wasn't going to support him/her, THEN SHE SHOULD HAVE HAD AN ABORTION! OR SHE SHOULD HAVE PUT HIM/HER UP FOR ADOPTION!

It's on HER shoulders if she goes ahead with the baby without the support of the father. He is not obliged to ANYTHING.

How about this situation - the father wants the child, but the mother doesn't, so she has an abortion. Let's see hmm.. the father can't have the child and hold the woman responsible and get child support fees from her.

The way nature works has given women the NATURAL right to having a child, therefore the law should accommodate the rights of men and avoid discrimination by giving men a choice.

How can you be so naive and so discriminative?

Yes I really think you're not obligated to pay support. The child is NOT yours, you did not impregnate the mother. And by your argument, when do we decide he's the child's father? Will we sit around in a fucking committee and decide? Hmm... how does 3 years sound? No no, more like 3 years 5 days. Yes, that's when the man becomes the child's father by definition.

You are calling other people on this board stupid. What age did you quit school? Because you have absolutely no clue about how the law works and how the law is designed. Ugh, this is just wrong that anyone could think like you do.

That's topped it off. I've been posting replies to your "arguments" in an attempt to have a civil debate about this but this is too much.

You are obviously not intelligent enough to participate in this debate.

"but you're deffinatly not speaking for all single moms i hope"
Spell definitely. And he's so DEFINITELY not speaking for all single moms... you hope? He's either definitely not speaking for all single moms, or you hope he's not speaking for all single moms. He can't be definitely speaking for all single moms, you hope.

Did you ever consider that the man who doesn't want this child isn't an evil deadbeat monster who is doing it just because he has it in for the mother? No, didn't think so.

If you can do so fine without our "petty money" then why don't you shut the fuck up about child support payments and DO FINE without it? Because you're a feministic moron, that's why.

Then you resort to personal attacks on someone clearly trying to make a simple argument. Numerous times in fact.

I hope the men you meet realise how warped and revolting your opinions are before they get involved with you, for their sake.

Erm if the child was living with you you'd be paying IT ALL?! Why wouldn't the mother be paying half? Oh that's right, because our society is a fucked up, sexist, discriminative excuse for a what's meant to be the age of equality. Why the fuck are men so discriminated against in this area? More to the point, how can people be so blind that they can't see it IS discrimination?

Very true, but I did ensure BEFORE I got pregnant that I was in a situation where I could provide for my child on my own without the support of my ex, anything that comes in from him would just be a bonus for my son.

Not in one million years should I be ordered to pay support for a child that is not mine. How can you honestly feel like some guy who is not the father should have to pay you.

Why? Because he had a good heart and treated your kid well, spent his money on Christmas presents, birthday presents, bought clothes and food. Then when things don't work out you want to kick his teeth in and snatch his wallet?

I hope this message is being broadcast loud and clear for any of the younger guys here who have not made this mistake yet. If you be nice to a woman with children and help her with those children, she can make you pay dearly for your kindness and generosity.

[QUOTE]You are now that childs daddy[/QUOTE
Again, guys, this is a female perspective here. You should really be paying very close attention to what is being said here and it's implications. I am NOT your childs daddy, don't tell your child to call me daddy unless I make that decision and choose to ADAPT your child. If you spent more time dating and getting to know someone then you should have discussed this and know exactly where they stand on this issue. But NO, you will NOT tell them about this, move in one month after you meet them and then sue them for child support. That's just wrong!

If I had kids and we got together and then later things didn't work out, it never in a million years would have ever crossed my mind to sue you for child support. It would be my responsibility not yours.

Look, crappy things happen to both men and women. Unfairness isn't gender specific. In my situation, I was married to a man for 7 years, and we have a son together. He started using drugs so I left him. We divorced and he was ordered to pay 300 dollars a month for child support. He payed for about a year, then got fired for smoking crack at work, and hasn't paid me since (that was 4 years ago).
For me it isn't really about the money. My issue is that when I tried to halt visitation (after he was arrested for breaking down his girlfirends door with an axe) I was told that he has a constitutional right to see his son. His life is all about rights, and mine is about obligations. He has the right to pop into my son's life once a year and traumatize him emotionally. I have the obligation of picking up the pieces and dealing with my heartbroken child when his father forgets his birthday again. He has a right to blow all his money on crack and cigarettes, and I have the obligation of paying for my son's braces all by myself.
As far as dating a single mother, I'm biased, but I'm glad my new man took a chance on me. We have a beautiful son together and another on the way. He and my son from my first marriage have a really strong bond and my son now calls him Dad. What is unfair though is that even though my new husband does all the work of being a Dad, he can't claim my son on his taxes. He can support him all year long, but because there is no biology involved he can't claim the deduction, or get an earned income credit for him. My ex-husband on the other hand could claim him even though he hasn't paid a single cent in support. He doesn't because he hasn't had a "legal" job in at least 4 years, but it's not right that he has the option and the guy doing all the work doesn't.
I've heard horror stories from both sexes, but despite what people might think I don't think this is a gender issue. The system needs to be changed so that there is more fairness on both sides.

Enchantress,

FYI, you should be able to have his parental rights terminated for non-payment of child support. Until that time you can refuse visitation, his only recourse is to file a "contempt of court" motion which it doesn't sound like he would have the resources or motivation to do.

Good luck,
RD

then what is the point of this discussion? if so many women are on their own taking care of the kids and doing well, what the hell? is that not good enough? sounds like you want blood!

how in the world can this man be responsible. he is not the biological father. where's the real father? if she found him, would she collect child support from both? probably in your world.

but then again, i am "stupid", so "stupid" i will "end up" with a woman as "stupid" as me. that'd be sooo "bad".

She should be you worthless fuckwit.

But my point is, if you hadn't gotten seperated / divorced and the kid was still living with you you'd be responsible for such things as all the rent...all the utilities...all the food...all the clothing...all the over the counter meds...all the toys...all the gas to and from the soccer practices...all the fees associated with soccer practice....

you wouldn't just be responsible for paying a measely $50 a week...or hell even $100 a week.

I read through this thread twice, and kept coming back to this post. I normally make it a point to stay out of emotionally-charged debates, but this one warrants stepping outside of my own rules for a moment.

Opinions are like assholes, pal. I'd be willing to bet that my son, whom I gave birth to because I CHOSE to and who has never and will never see his biological father or any of his damned money, is a lot more well adjusted and emotionally secure than any kid who's had to live through six months or more of fighting and bullshit before, during, and after a divorce! It was my CHOICE to have a child... I didn't need anyone's permission or approval to do so, and wouldn't have asked for it if I did. Don't assume that children "need" a father. In a lot of cases, I'd say they'd be a whole lot better off without one!

And I don't know what backwards state you live in, but where I come from it takes a helluva lot more than cohabitating with a single mother to become legally and financially responsible for her children! The men I date know me well enough to know that I am not the kind of woman that would do something that sleazy and underhanded anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem for me even if the laws here were like that.

At one point in the past I was contemplating getting married. When the subject came up about him adopting my son, I flatly refused to even discuss it. My reasoning was that if something were to happen and the marriage fell apart, it wouldn't be fair for him to have to pay support for a child that wasn't his! The other reason was that we had lived together for three years and he still wasn't my son's "daddy"; legal adoption wasn't going to change that, so I didn't see the point.

I'll be the first one to agree that the child support laws throughout this country need some serious rehabilitation, but it's my considered opinion that it's the women who abuse those laws that make things more difficult for men. I don't agree with men having to support children that aren't theirs because their wife couldn't keep her pants on, but the men who don't pay up for kids that ARE theirs make me equally angry. I also don't agree with women who deliberately get pregnant and have a child so they can collect support and not have to work. What the hell are these people thinking? Using children as pawns to get money or control in any situation should be a fine punishable by the harshest penalty allowed by our judicial system, and forced sterilization should definitely be part of the package.

End of rant. Sorry to have used up so much board space. You are now returned to your regularly scheduled programming :321GFY

Wow, Wenchy.

I think you have a great attitude about the whole thing and summed things up perfectly. But unfortunately you can tell by some of the posts up above that some women think you are their childs "daddy" after 1 yr and should have to pay them for the next 15 yrs.

I for one am paying child support for a child that is not mine and that I did not find out wasn't mine for several years.

Ahhhhh I'm so happy I dont have to deal with this shit! No kids = no kid support problems!

Bottom Line - If you dont want to deal with a kid or child support - use birth control. There are only 65 different methods out there now - patches, condoms, shots, pills, diaphrams, non-oxynol 9, female condoms, IUD's - jesus the list goes on and on.

If you do end up pregnant (or your girl) guess what? You get to PAY for it. 18 years of your life and all your goddamn money. Deal with it.

Oh no, the poor poor men that are being abused by the child support system.... Why is that what most of these men seem to have multiple children by multiple women? Hmmmm sounds like they need some lessons on how to use a condom.

No, It's not right to have to pay for someone else's kid. If its yours, you pay, if not you dont. Seems simple enough....

As for the single mom who is living with her well-to-do boyfriend and dad is mad cause he still has to pay? WAaaaaaaaaaa
thats just too damn bad - HE didnt knock her up, why should he have to pay to feed/clothe/school/pay medical for YOUR kid?

If you dont want to pay "child support" to your now insignificant other, then try to get custody. Oh, you dont want to be a full time daddy? Well, then you get to pay for her to be mommy and daddy.

The bottom line is, there is really no reason (expect rape) for an "unwanted" pregnancy. Take responsibility for your actions.

twinkley

Damn, another person who can't read and comprehend :(

Nobody is saying anyone is mad because they have to pay, just that the "HOUSEHOLD" income should be taken into consideration when determining amounts. They are living together as man and wife (6+ yrs), she has kids, they come with the terratory. He doesn't like that, then he should find a women without children.

If they seperate, the amount should be adjusted accordingly. that works both ways. If the father is living with someone else as husband and wife then the HOUSEHOLD income should be taken into consideration and if his new wife/girlfriend can't deal with it, then she should leave and find someone without baggage.

Poor dads abused by the system?? If people didn't get upset about unjust systems, there would still be slavery, women wouldn't be allowed to vote or get a job, laws are reevaluated and changed all the time.

I feel like I'm a Special Ed teacher here.

Who said I was chasing him up? We haven't heard from him in over a year, and that's fine with me. And my family is being supported just fine -- ya'll misunderstood me, for one thing. I'm not a single mother, I've been remarried for going on 5 years, and the only reason I could think of to get in touch with my ex is to ask him to sign the paperwork to allow my husband to formally adopt my daughter.

My 2nd husband is the one who has helped me raise this child -- we both worked two jobs while we were going through college to keep food on the table, my husband used to change diapers, feed her, he does all the "Daddy" stuff happily, because he's happy to be a family man. My ex doesn't have it in him -- and didn't have it in him, even when he was married to me after the baby was born -- to be any kind of responsible parent, and I'm just as happy to let him keep himself out of her life.

And that's what he's doing, really. He knows where we live, he has my phone number -- if he isn't seeing her, it's his choice. I never kept him from exercising his visitation, even though I personally think he's a childish fuckstick who is one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. I don't really regret it, though -- I got my daughter out of it, and it was one hell of a learning experience. I learned to take care of myself and not to rely on anyone else. I married again because I loved him, not because I "needed a man."

Bleh...I'll quit rambling now. It's almost time for the schoolbus, and I have to wake the hubby up from his nap -- he and the kiddo are going to the movies so I can get some site work done. :)

Would you believe that I was advised by my foodstamps/AFDC caseworker to get pregnant again so that I could continue to stay on assistance? The system is pretty much set up so that people who try to start working get penalized for it -- making anything above a certain amount a month resulted in the loss of over half my benefits, which was NOT made up for by the amount of money I was making.

We went through some scary, scary times when I was trying to get off assistance after my husband left me. It really would have been easier and made more sense for me to follow my caseworker's advice and get knocked up again, rather than work my butt off to complete some work training and get a job.

I didn't, though -- I just sucked it up and kept trying when I would get a letter in the mail informing me that they were reducing my benefits AGAIN, even though I was making minimum wage and was having to make the decision "which do I want to have this month: food, electricity, or a phone? which one gets to be a luxury this month?" :1orglaugh

It sucked, and it was terrifying, but I'm proud that when I was a single mom, I got myself off welfare and into a good job before I got married again, and was taking care of myself and my daughter alone.

You're right, why would women even sleep with these men?

Half should be paying ONLY when custody is ALSO half. And try to keep this argument, an argument.

It shows a lot about your character that you must resort to personal attacks when I haven't.

shut up bitch :zzwhip

Been there, done that, Kelly. I always had a problem with the fact that I was more educated than the people that were handling my case at Social Services. I worked my ass off to get through college and get my degree. I barely remember my son from ages birth to 5, because I was too busy studying and going to school to spend much time with him. Thank the gods I had my mom to provide childcare at a somewhat reduced rate (she does it for a living) or I never would have made it. As it was, social services wouldn't pay one cent to help me get my education at a "normal" college. They expected me to go to beautician school or secretary school for a year and then try to get off the system on a hair above minimum wage.... NOT happening!

I lived in an apartment complex with a shitload of women who had four, five, six kids and were pulling down a sum of cash every month that made me want to scream... we're talking $1500 a month plus food stamps, PLUS getting reduced rent! Apparently they had the caseworkers that encouraged them to have more kids, too. Ugh, the agony! In the meantime, I was maxing out my student loans every year so I could keep a roof over our heads while going to school. I was on public assistance for about two years, primarily so I could have the insurance benefits for my kiddo (which college students don't get). The little pittance every month from social services wasn't even enough to cover half the rent, but I couldn't get one without the other.

You should have seen the look on my caseworker's face the day she tactfully suggested, not in so many words of course, that I have another kid and I calmly looked her dead in the eyes and informed her that I was six months out from a hysterectomy, making more children a slighty impossibility LOL It was priceless! :1orglaugh

Those years were scary and sometimes when I look back I'm amazed I pulled it off. But it makes me feel damned good to know I was able to get off the system and get on with my life. We now live in suburbia surrounded by soccer moms and Avon ladies. I'd say I did okay :thumbsup

NOTE TO ROCKDADDY: That's a cruddy thing to find out years later, and it sucks that you have to pay for a child that isn't yours. You are a shining example of what I was talking about... the women that abuse the system, thus making it harder on the men. Chin up, hon... 18 won't take forever :)

what pisses me off more is alimony. WTF, it should be called whore money. I agree with Chris Rock, if they get money to keep them in the lifestyle they are used to then we should get a little something too. I was used to getting head a few times a week when I was married so I should be able to stop by every once in a while to collect.

Since we're on the sub topic of Chris Rock and Alimony, here's his quote re OJ Simpson

"So let me get this straight, OJ. You're paying your ex-wife thousands of dollars every month and the bitch is sleeping with another guy? OJ, I don't agree [with what you did] but I UNDERSTAND!"