Interesting facts from someone who called Visa - GoFuckYourself.com

SunTzu · 10-13-2002, 01:46 PM

It looks like CCBill/Epoch/Ibill knew about these rules long before....

Here's someone who's called Visa direct:

--------------------------
First this is NOT a new regulation but a regulation that has always been
there but not followed by ccbill ibill and epoch.

Visa told me they finaly have had enough of these major billing companies
overhearing this rule.

This is something like this that have happend with Visa they have had enough and therefor put a deadline for it to be followed.

The only new thing but ofcourse important too is the fee they
will charge for going tru all the mess the 3 companies has
as alot of international customers as my self joined the billing company
under the impression that as a international client i could get prossesed.
I was accepted but they forgot to tell about this rule so now Visa must
discontinue the prossesing because the billing company dident followed the rules.

So now its either get a LLC and pay income tax in the US and
then again pay Tax in my home country were i live and have my address or say goodbye to 400 visa members and get a merchant account.

I explained my situation to Visa who said they had undestanding for all
the international customers but they dident make a NEW rule so
they couldent help me.

---

I talked with Visa International in the US and ther number is
: 415 932 2145

--------------------------------

So all this crap that's going on is because they didn't follow the rules in the first place?

steffie · 10-13-2002, 01:51 PM

bump

I did read that on another board also. The other person also called Visa and they told them the same thing

It always was their rule.

SykkBoy · 10-13-2002, 01:52 PM

I'm thinking there are going to be some major fireworks at the January InterNext show.......

Sly_RJ · 10-13-2002, 01:58 PM

So each of these "troublesome" processors have been breaking the rules for years, without notice? Fucked up. If this is true, everyone affected should be seriously pissed right now. Visa isn't the bad guy, it's the processors...

SunTzu · 10-13-2002, 02:15 PM

Especially if most people go with the "big 3" for their stability etc..

Because if this is true, they're not stable at all. Putting all their international customers at complete risk for their own greed sounds pretty shady.

"Solid as a rock." What kind of rock would that be??

Jayson · 10-13-2002, 02:22 PM

As I have stated before, agregators like CCbill/Ibill et al were illegal under Visa scheme rules. I had assumed since they had been doing it for so long that Visa USA was cool with it but I know from first hand experience that aggregators are not tollerated in Australia by Visa.

It seems like this newish rule classifies them as an IPSP and legitimises their role, but takes away the protection of individual accounts being able to hide from being terminated. So these new rules are actually good for the third party billers as it removes the risk of visa getting totally pissed and just yanking their facilities.

12clicks · 10-13-2002, 02:25 PM

for the 100th time:
you don't pay income tax in the US for a corp.
There is NO double taxation.
Also, new rule, old rule that wasn't enforced, it doesn't matter, VISA is the bad guy. its their rule.

Shoplifter · 10-13-2002, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
I'm thinking there are going to be some major fireworks at the January InterNext show.......

I can't even imagine damage control for all this.

Va2k · 10-13-2002, 02:40 PM

I dont see why no one sue's the shit out of their processor... If they were breaking the rules and they accpeted you shit I could see several lawsuits

kaylacam · 10-13-2002, 02:45 PM

I am so damned confused on ALL of this Visa stuff...I <I>WAS</I> with iBill, then I switched to CCBill...I still have rebills on iBill...how does this REALLY affect me?! Am I going to get hit with a double whammy? I got ONE answer from CCBill, and TWO from iBill (depends on who you speak with there).

Bah!

psyko514 · 10-13-2002, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
Also, new rule, old rule that wasn't enforced, it doesn't matter, VISA is the bad guy. its their rule.

dude, visa is allowed to make whatever rules they want. same way an IPSP or any other company offering services has the right to do. if you offer something, you have every right to enforce rules regarding use of your service/product.

if processors had enforced this rule since the beginning, the adult webmaster business would have been a lot better off. and you wouldn't be whining and bitching now.
it could be worse... they could be requesting retroactive fees.

psyko514 · 10-13-2002, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kaylacam
I <I>WAS</I> with iBill, then I switched to CCBill...I still have rebills on iBill...how does this REALLY affect me?! Am I going to get hit with a double whammy?

apparently, you'll have to pay fees with both companies

Candyman69 · 10-13-2002, 02:52 PM

so wuyt does this mean

globill ,and other offshore processor aren't legit ?

kaylacam · 10-13-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

apparently, you'll have to pay fees with both companies

DAMMIT DAMMIT SONOFABITCH!
OBVIOUSLY I am not rich! I am a CAMGIRL for crying out loud!

Shoplifter · 10-13-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by va2k
I dont see why no one sue's the shit out of their processor... If they were breaking the rules and they accpeted you shit I could see several lawsuits

If they were unlawfully factoring and you lose your business over it I think you probably have a case. I can foresee a situation where some webmasters are compensated for lost rebills.

Jayson · 10-13-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Candyman69
so wuyt does this mean

globill ,and other offshore processor aren't legit ?

Who knows, and if they are who knows for how long.

ACpay's signup docs are the most comprehensive and if you read their terms and conditions they require you to use on your site, it states that the member is becoming a customer of ACPay and not of the site they are joining. This looks like how they are trying to achieve the work around of the rules, but who knows.

12clicks · 10-13-2002, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psyko514

if processors had enforced this rule since the beginning, the adult webmaster business would have been a lot better off. and you wouldn't be whining and bitching now.

who's whining and bitching?

I'm buying any non-US paysite that comes my way.

Sly_RJ · 10-13-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kaylacam

DAMMIT DAMMIT SONOFABITCH!
OBVIOUSLY I am not rich! I am a CAMGIRL for crying out loud!

Pay the fees to whichever company you're using now. Forget your rebills.

insidethegame · 10-13-2002, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayson
As I have stated before, agregators like CCbill/Ibill et al were illegal under Visa scheme rules. I had assumed since they had been doing it for so long that Visa USA was cool with it but I know from first hand experience that aggregators are not tollerated in Australia by Visa.

It seems like this newish rule classifies them as an IPSP and legitimises their role, but takes away the protection of individual accounts being able to hide from being terminated. So these new rules are actually good for the third party billers as it removes the risk of visa getting totally pissed and just yanking their facilities.

Third party processing in its present form is essentially money laundering...Im surprised Justice DEPT hasnt enforced RICO statutes to date.

49thParallel · 10-13-2002, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks
for the 100th time:
you don't pay income tax in the US for a corp.
There is NO double taxation.
Also, new rule, old rule that wasn't enforced, it doesn't matter, VISA is the bad guy. its their rule.

No...VISA is not the bad guy..."for the 100th time"...if the adult industry wasn't built on screwing the customer, there wouldn't be a need for harsher rules. You display the same mentality of inmates who can't figure out why the can't get paroled...it's the system and the world that screwed you...not you who screwed the system....Suck it up.

Shoplifter · 10-13-2002, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel

No...VISA is not the bad guy..."for the 100th time"...if the adult industry wasn't built on screwing the customer, there wouldn't be a need for harsher rules. You display the same mentality of inmates who can't figure out why the can't get paroled...it's the system and the world that screwed you...not you who screwed the system....Suck it up.

I agree with this, the whole industry seems to have been built without foundation.

The various billers have been factoring and processing across borders and Visa wants them now to obey the rules like all other merchants must. They misrepresented their operations as being
legitimate processing set ups that webmasters could build their businesses on.

It is in fact a miracle that Visa is letting them stay. I think it is probably because the IPSP's provide an easy central way to do the registration, and because they have more practical experience than Visa or its banks in handling online commerce.

Webby · 10-13-2002, 09:37 PM

insidethegame:

*Third party processing in its present form is essentially money laundering...Im surprised Justice DEPT hasnt enforced RICO statutes to date.*

Give me a break! Fuck the DOJ and RICO!

pr0 · 10-13-2002, 09:56 PM

andi_germany · 10-14-2002, 02:45 AM

If that turns out true I would strongly urge everyone to not use Ibill or CCBill for business. They are so wide open for a classaction lawsuit by foreign webmaster they accepted that they probably have to be out of business soon. I am talking to my lawyer as we speak.

OneHungLo · 10-14-2002, 03:05 AM

I dont think you would have to pay taxes in the US and taxes in what ever country you live in. Just set up a US corp ( 123 Inc.)have the money wired to that account, then have the money wired to your bank account in your own country (xyz inc.) and all the money you had wired to your US account just say you paid xyz inc. So your US corp made no money and you dont have to pay taxes on it.

Jayson · 10-14-2002, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OneHungLo
I dont think you would have to pay taxes in the US and taxes in what ever country you live in. Just set up a US corp ( 123 Inc.)have the money wired to that account, then have the money wired to your bank account in your own country (xyz inc.) and all the money you had wired to your US account just say you paid xyz inc. So your US corp made no money and you dont have to pay taxes on it.

Not quite that easy depending on the country you live in due to transfer pricing agreements.

12clicks · 10-14-2002, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel

No...VISA is not the bad guy..."for the 100th time"...if the adult industry wasn't built on screwing the customer, there wouldn't be a need for harsher rules. You display the same mentality of inmates who can't figure out why the can't get paroled...it's the system and the world that screwed you...not you who screwed the system....Suck it up.

assclown, if you weren't blinded by finding was to contradict me, you'd understand you missed the point of the argument.

49thParallel · 10-14-2002, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

assclown, if you weren't blinded by finding was to contradict me, you'd understand you missed the point of the argument.

If your original post was written with the same clarity as your response above..then I'm lucky I could even interpret the sentence as english...never mind distinguish the "point of the argument".

And, no, I don't think I did miss the point of the argument. You blamed VISA of being the bad guy...I blamed you of being a narrow minded, short sighted putz who can't see the forest through the trees...no confusion here.

Kimmykim · 10-14-2002, 09:09 AM

Um, sure someone called up Martin Elliot, the guy in charge of high risk, and he was happy to talk to them? ROFUCKINGFL.

Half the time he doesn't return the calls of banks and processing companies, why would he talk to someone who doesn't even do business with them...

Visa makes rules, not laws. Visa chose not to enforce a rule -- WHICH they did in APRIL when this matter was first brought up and they started talking about it, so it was no big deal.

Third party processing has been around alot longer than the internet, companies like the old Bronco that used to do offsite transactions third party -- though they charged a bit more than Epoch etc do at the moment. This is nothing new.

Spend more time working and less time crying about things you cannot change and you wouldn't have to worry about money.

12clicks · 10-14-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 49thParallel

I blamed you of being a narrow minded, short sighted putz who can't see the forest through the trees...no confusion here.

haha, yeah. you can't imagine the pain I feel when the nobodies of this business call me names.

It hurts so much.

dacash · 10-14-2002, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 12clicks

haha, yeah. you can't imagine the pain I feel when the nobodies of this business call me names.

It hurts so much.

oh oh can i call you names also? please pretty please

10-13-2002, 01:46 PM	#1
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	Interesting facts from someone who called Visa It looks like CCBill/Epoch/Ibill knew about these rules long before.... Here's someone who's called Visa direct: -------------------------- First this is NOT a new regulation but a regulation that has always been there but not followed by ccbill ibill and epoch. Visa told me they finaly have had enough of these major billing companies overhearing this rule. This is something like this that have happend with Visa they have had enough and therefor put a deadline for it to be followed. The only new thing but ofcourse important too is the fee they will charge for going tru all the mess the 3 companies has as alot of international customers as my self joined the billing company under the impression that as a international client i could get prossesed. I was accepted but they forgot to tell about this rule so now Visa must discontinue the prossesing because the billing company dident followed the rules. So now its either get a LLC and pay income tax in the US and then again pay Tax in my home country were i live and have my address or say goodbye to 400 visa members and get a merchant account. I explained my situation to Visa who said they had undestanding for all the international customers but they dident make a NEW rule so they couldent help me. --- I talked with Visa International in the US and ther number is : 415 932 2145 -------------------------------- So all this crap that's going on is because they didn't follow the rules in the first place?

10-13-2002, 01:51 PM	#2
steffie Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains, far far away Posts: 2,422	bump I did read that on another board also. The other person also called Visa and they told them the same thing It always was their rule. __________________ Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm

10-13-2002, 01:52 PM	#3
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	I'm thinking there are going to be some major fireworks at the January InterNext show....... __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

10-13-2002, 01:58 PM	#4
Sly_RJ Live Hard - Die Hard Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ready to leave... Posts: 17,042	So each of these "troublesome" processors have been breaking the rules for years, without notice? Fucked up. If this is true, everyone affected should be seriously pissed right now. Visa isn't the bad guy, it's the processors... __________________ PHAT SERVERS - Quality dedicated hosting at a quality price! sly AT phatservers DOT com - 147479144

10-13-2002, 02:22 PM	#6
Jayson Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CZ Posts: 554	As I have stated before, agregators like CCbill/Ibill et al were illegal under Visa scheme rules. I had assumed since they had been doing it for so long that Visa USA was cool with it but I know from first hand experience that aggregators are not tollerated in Australia by Visa. It seems like this newish rule classifies them as an IPSP and legitimises their role, but takes away the protection of individual accounts being able to hide from being terminated. So these new rules are actually good for the third party billers as it removes the risk of visa getting totally pissed and just yanking their facilities. __________________ Sapphic Cash - We Do It Right

10-13-2002, 02:15 PM	#5
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	Especially if most people go with the "big 3" for their stability etc.. Because if this is true, they're not stable at all. Putting all their international customers at complete risk for their own greed sounds pretty shady. "Solid as a rock." What kind of rock would that be??

10-13-2002, 02:25 PM	#7
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,789	for the 100th time: you don't pay income tax in the US for a corp. There is NO double taxation. Also, new rule, old rule that wasn't enforced, it doesn't matter, VISA is the bad guy. its their rule. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

10-13-2002, 02:40 PM	#9
Va2k I’m still alive barley. Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Va Posts: 10,060	I dont see why no one sue's the shit out of their processor... If they were breaking the rules and they accpeted you shit I could see several lawsuits __________________

10-13-2002, 02:45 PM	#10
kaylacam Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Less camgirl than porn chickie...conveniently located in Porn Central. Posts: 2,745	I am so damned confused on ALL of this Visa stuff...I <I>WAS</I> with iBill, then I switched to CCBill...I still have rebills on iBill...how does this REALLY affect me?! Am I going to get hit with a double whammy? I got ONE answer from CCBill, and TWO from iBill (depends on who you speak with there). Bah! __________________ SPANK! Kayla Quinn http://www.TushyCash.com

10-13-2002, 02:52 PM	#13
Candyman69 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 764	so wuyt does this mean globill ,and other offshore processor aren't legit ? __________________ domain buyer

10-13-2002, 09:37 PM	#22
Webby Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Far far away - as possible Posts: 14,956	insidethegame: Third party processing in its present form is essentially money laundering...Im surprised Justice DEPT hasnt enforced RICO statutes to date. Give me a break! Fuck the DOJ and RICO!

10-13-2002, 09:56 PM	#23
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088

10-14-2002, 02:45 AM	#24
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	If that turns out true I would strongly urge everyone to not use Ibill or CCBill for business. They are so wide open for a classaction lawsuit by foreign webmaster they accepted that they probably have to be out of business soon. I am talking to my lawyer as we speak.

10-14-2002, 03:05 AM	#25
OneHungLo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Your mom's front hole Posts: 40,906	I dont think you would have to pay taxes in the US and taxes in what ever country you live in. Just set up a US corp ( 123 Inc.)have the money wired to that account, then have the money wired to your bank account in your own country (xyz inc.) and all the money you had wired to your US account just say you paid xyz inc. So your US corp made no money and you dont have to pay taxes on it.

10-14-2002, 09:09 AM	#29
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Um, sure someone called up Martin Elliot, the guy in charge of high risk, and he was happy to talk to them? ROFUCKINGFL. Half the time he doesn't return the calls of banks and processing companies, why would he talk to someone who doesn't even do business with them... Visa makes rules, not laws. Visa chose not to enforce a rule -- WHICH they did in APRIL when this matter was first brought up and they started talking about it, so it was no big deal. Third party processing has been around alot longer than the internet, companies like the old Bronco that used to do offsite transactions third party -- though they charged a bit more than Epoch etc do at the moment. This is nothing new. Spend more time working and less time crying about things you cannot change and you wouldn't have to worry about money.