problem or cool thing??? taxation is a joke. a dollar is a dollar, but if you make less money, you get to keep more of your dollar than if you make more money (the politicians figure you can handle giving more of it to the government because you earn more of it???)

if you operate your small business and can't handle paying taxes, then you are in the wrong business.. it's just part of operations. Earn enough to pay the bills and the taxes and have enough left over to make it profitable for you. If you can't do that part, find a new business or work for someone else that has a better strategy.

A flat tax makes perfect sense except to the people that are paying less than everyone else is.

Who in the fuck are you anyways? Fuck off n00b.

If you're company turns a profit your company will be paying the tax. In most cases corporations are taxed higher than individuals. If you are the only shareholder you're much better off with an S corp and then all company profits become individual profits and taxed at a lower rate.

I agree with you that a national sales tax isnt the answers, for many reasons but this above example isnt one of them. Proponents of a national sales tax want this sales tax to replace the federal income tax. So if you had $1k to spend on a TV after federal taxes you would then have roughly $1,333 to spend if you didnt have to pay federal taxes (if your tax rate was 25% in this example). A 25% sales tax on the TV would then mean that your $1,333 still buys the same TV. Most likely you would come out ahead with the sales tax as currently your gross income is taxed at the 25% plus the TV in most states would have 5-8% sales tax added on.

How so? Prove to me that my statement is incorrect. Show me HOW the poor are the people who provide jobs for others. Or are you of the mindset that EVERYONE should be RICH?

Imagine for a moment that everyone was wealthy. Who would work? Imagine for a moment that everyone were poor. Who would work? Work is important for economic functionality. If everyone were on perma-vacation because they could afford to be... Nobody would be farming food, flipping burgers, buying & selling stocks... ie... DRIVING the economy. To ignore this fact is, as you say... "retarded".

If everyone were poor.... What would be the point of working? Nobody could PAY you. You'd simply be in a bartering system. I'll give you this rotten piece of beef in exchange for your partially used battery to power my flashlight, so I can see at night, since nobody works at the utility companies anymore to keep our power running.

These are 2 extremes, but both are possible, if the balance doesn't exist. Bush drove the economy into near recession status, after Clinton drove us into a bloated economic boom, where many got rich that never would have before, and squandered their earnings on unimportant "Things" rather than creating more jobs. Some did not, but overall, what indicates a person's financial status is directly related to their intellectual level pertaining to their industry and skillset.

It is, as you say, "retarded", to think that EVERYONE is intelligent and that EVERYONE should be Wealthy. It is retarded to think that EVERYONE should get "tax breaks". Why would an 18 y/o pimple faced borderline intellectual vegetable that flips burgers for a living at McDonald's and will never go any further in life, get the same tax breaks over the person who is out in the world growing businesses, building jobs for others, stimulating the economy in communities and funding future ventures for future growth?? That simply doesn't make any sense at all. The people who think Flat Taxes are a good idea, most likely are those that have no idea how to be successful or make money on their own.

So... Prove it. Explain WHY underprivelaged people should get the same tax advantages as people who can stimulate the economy.

I'm of the belief, that if you are employed by someone, you should pay ALL of the taxes. If you employ others, you get 0 taxes.

Grow the rich. Eat the stupid.

I also do not see any issue with inherited money. Yes, they should get the benefit because some relative worked hard and paid all the necessary taxes on those earnings. That's how these things work.

Exactly. That money was taxed already anyways and any new money made from that money is taxed also. I don't see how anyone justify taxing it again.

You're assuming people pay the 25% tax. They don't. And your math is wrong. Even if you're at the upper end of the 25% tax bracket your total income taxes amount to less than 20% of your gross income. I don't get why people think that it you're in the 25% or 35% or whatever tax bracket that everything from dollar 1 on up is taxed at that rate. It isn't. Not to metnion you don't even pay taxes on every dollar you earn anyways.

Even a single person with no dependants and no other deductions pays ZERO taxes on the first $8750 of his income no matter how much he makes. A married couple with 2 kids even with no other deductions doesn't pay squat on the first $23,500 in income. The next $15,100 is only taxed at 10% the next $46,200 is only taxed at 15%. So if that couple made $85,000 a year they'd pay a total of $8500 in income taxes or just 10% of their income even though they would be in the 25% tax bracket.

A person making the 2009 minimum wage of $7.25 makes $15,000 a year currently only has $12 a week taken out of his paycheck. Are you telling me that national sales tax he'd pay LESS than that per week in sales tax? I think not. So he'd spend less than $52 a week in goods? Hardly. What about someone buying a house or car? That's a HUGE hit. A $20,000 car is $4600 in taxes. Is that person REALLY coming out ahead? A $200,000 house is $46,000 in national sales tax. And yes those that propose this are infact including car and house purchases otherwise the tax would have to be 30%.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to pay HIGHER taxes so some lazy fuck can live off money a long dead relative made?

What is your justification for taking it? Jealousy? Greed? Both?

Yup Inheritance tax and death tax is completely fucked.

When that was passed into Law people should have been in the streets rioting and burning cop car's and public service buildings.


Single handed one of the fucken schummiest sleeziest fucking things the American Tax system does. GIves you an insite about these fucking blood suckers taking money your family earned and paid taxes on thier whole lives only to give you a fucken bill for them dying.

Dirt bags.

Veryone get s double atxed right now idiot.

Someone making $26,000 a year pays $2000 in FICA taxes. He never sees that money. When he files his taxes he has to pay at least 10% income tax on that $2000 FICA tax. Is that not double taxation? Also I assume you pay income taxes so your income is taxed. Then you go to the store and pay sales taxes. Well wasn't that money already taxed? yes, but you are required to pay sales tax. That's double taxation.

No jealously. why should I have to pay some rich kids taxes? You still refused to answer the question.

Not to mention most of the shit we buy is not even American Product.
Thus every product brought in was Import taxed as well.
The price is carried to the consumer of course so that almost triple taxation.

It sounds like you're obsessed with being "active" rather than "productive". The 2 terms are inherently different in the aspect that "productivity" is a much more valuable attribute and dwarfs "activity" in every way. Not being "active" is NOT being "lazy". Haven't you ever heard "Work SMARTER... NOT Harder!"? Working HARD for works sake, is what lemmings do.

If I run around an office, with a cellphone to my ear and a stack of papers in my hand and earn $80,000.00/yr... Is that better than sitting in my boxers on a couch, after having invented something 10 years ago that nets me $10,000.00 a month? Or what if my great great grandmother invented something 130 years ago, that earns me $10,000.00/month today?

Define "Lazy", so I can understand what you mean by "lazy fuck". How do YOU know the person is "lazy". All of this seems so hypothetical, and arbitrary.

pffft.

Why less than 1% of the people were affected by it when it started. By the way both Warrent Buffet and Bill Gates says they are ok with the "death tax". And they are the 2 guys most affected by it.

By the way I never said I wasn't for exemptions to it. Exempt the first $10,000,000( adjusted annually for inflation ) primary residence doesn't count towards the $10,000,000 and is not taxed. Inheritance can be spread over 10 years for tax purposes and then taxed at the same rate as regular income taxes. 99.9% would pay next to nothing.

i can defend my position with 2 words, PARIS HILTON. You wish to pay higher taxes for that bitch?

I agree we are all taxed to death and on many levels. I don't see how this is justification for an Inheritance tax though.

GatorB, you are saying that because we have to pay FICA taxes there should be an Inheritance tax? That's the justification for taking someone elses rightfully earned property? Your example about sales tax applies to anyone buying anything including evil children of evil rich people...

bottom line is every single American is playing an unfair game with the dealer working a stacked deck.

I said this before and here is the stakes.

Odd's are if you are poor or from a poor family you will be poor for the rest of your life. FUCKING Period.
Thats a fucken fact like it or not.

I know many of you are young and think "Oh no not me! I am going to be somebody!" LOL you won't! Odd's are against you ever being more successful than your parents were and even if you do surpass your parents in wealth it will most likely not be remotly close to the wealth that real wealth is measured in!

Now if you are from a rich family odd's are you yourself will be rich with a greater chance at succedding in your amibitions, your dreams and your business. Thats just the fucking way it is.

So we should all be able to have the government take money/property from people we don't like?

Bottom line is Money is power and if you aint got none odd's are you never know power.

The more people that find clever ways to siphon off your hard work's earnings without doing anything about it the less you will have in life.

Ya see Forbes lately about some of the corporate kick backs going on in Bonuses.

Over 150 Million dollar bonuses are paid to many company execs that did nothing but get drunk in college with a family that shoulder tapped someone to give them a fucking job in the banking sector, so how do you feel about 2 Dollar ATM fee's right now?

How about your over priced fucked up car and the exec's paid over 200 Million each yet the car company is going to bankruptcy?

How do ya like buying a god damn over priced house paying an over priced mortgage rate then have the value of the house plummet to less than 25% of its value and still pay an exhorbant rate? You people are being suckered daily and do NOTHING about it. All you are doing is lining other peoples pockets toiling all your life.

American people seriously...

Think about this shit.

Can you read? Seriously. You said the "death tax" is unfair because it's double taxation. So I assume you think that double taxation is wrong. Well I showed you a perfect example of how poor and middle class are double taxed yet all you care about is that some billionaire is getting double taxed. Where is the outrage at the lower income people getting double taxed? There is none from you. Why is that? How come you're all for getting rid of the death tax but are not for letting people deduct FICA taxes off of their taxable income?

how about this... you're clearly well informed and have a strong grasp on the subject... do us all a favor and educate us and explain the exact manner in which personal income tax dollars pay for the debt... does the IRS write a check to someone? I mean... I send in a tax payment and how does that money go from the mail room at the IRS to actually paying interest on the National Debt??

i don't think anyone should be listening to the guy who is so impossibly stupid that he failed to pay the 15.00 to register his own domain and when it defaulted to a parked page, ran to GFY to start a thread demanding to know who stole it.... with the WHOIS info still showing you as the registrant

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

How ya like them prescription pills?

How do you like your HMO or Insurance? Do you enjoy paying Medical Bills with an over priced Health Insurance Coverage? Do you know that what you are paying in Medical Insurance is almost 50 times more than it was just 10 years ago and the prices have increased over 150% in most cases in the last 5 years?

No Paris should pay her own taxes and not expect me to pay it. if you don't get this then I can't talk to you any more. besides it obvious you totally by passed my exemptions which I posted earlier. Please tell me how they are being unfair? Under my proposal someone receiving a $11 million inheritance( not counting a house ) and a $3 million house would pay a total "death tax" of $200,000 and that is paid out over 10 years.

You are not very smart are you?

haha... lets see 300.00 per month / 50 = $6.00 per month for medical insurance 10 years ago?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Most of that is the environment you are raised in I think. My family is far far from rich and totally clueless about how to make money. I make more a year than 10 times what my parents ever made, but it had little to do with how I was raised. In fact that held me back. I had to unlearn a lot of shit. What I did was study the wealthy/successful people that entered my life. I watched what they did with their money vs. how I was raised and learned from it. Then I took what I learned and applied it to my life. I also stayed away from people who were always bitching about how unfair life was and looking for handouts. Fast forward to today and I'm worth well over a million dollars, have people working for me in 5 countries, can sleep in as late as I want and can spend most of my day in my boxers if I want to. Does this mean I'm lazy? Absolutely not. I work my ass off. I just work smart and don't participate in the "rat race" most people look at as being the norm. Had I, at a younger age, listened to what you're saying I would being working 9 to 5 making someone else rich. :2 cents:

no man... i get it. you do insanely stupid things.. then start accusing others of not "getting" your "genius"

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

would you 2 like a motel room so you can "angry fuck" each other in the ass?

Huh? OH OK...

I see...
I listened to people that had my perspective and understood pretty quick a good number of things.

So anyways you got yer own house, 3 expensive cars and run around in your boxers All day but you still work hard?:1orglaugh I can assure you I had everything I ever wanted growing up and to this day get exactly what want even more so when I want it.


Yeah sure...
Enjoy what ever 9 to 5 you currently got or find one. Being aware of the system around you is what will make you more money. But feel free to keep kicking in them boxer shorts you hard working guy:1orglaugh

If I listened to people like you I probably would have shot myself already.

Oh.. and..

Here is my punch line.

I do not work at all and only when I want to:)
I can sit for months on end doing absolutly fucking nothing and believe me I have and enjoyed every minute of it.

I post pics of my new car for ya in another month when its finished.
Yeah I made my own car I got so fucking bored.

Do you know the value of a dollar 10 years ago compared to today?
The real value?

nice try.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Here is a couple other perspectives.


10 years ago...

The $92,100 car you purchased in 1998 would now be worth $11,999, and that's if the car has low mileage.

You could have purchased 3,298 shares at $30.32 a share for $99,995, and your investment would now be worth $1,997,797. I myself did buy lots of Apple stock and cashed them out a couple years ago or so.

One Bedroom Apartment on the Upper East Side New York

Based on an Upper East Side property that was sold in 1998 and in 2008, your Manhattan apartment would have cost you $85,000 and would now be worth $515,000.

323 Ounces of Gold

An investment in 323 ounces of gold would have cost $99,991, at $309.45 per ounce. It would now be worth $301,488, at $933.40 per ounce, mostly thanks to the jump in value over the past year.


So...
Learn to invest in the right things Like i did and know when to cash out like I did;)

Don't buy a car, make a car:) That makes it priceless.

Once again I didnt come out in favor of the national sales tax. My point was that was a bad example as to why it screws poor people.

A. I know how the tax bracket works. I have to pay it. I just used an average % of federal/state taxes that someone of reasonable middle class status might pay. I didnt think you would need a detailed breakdown on GFY.
B. You said you were buying the TV. I made the assumption you earned over minimum wage.
C. I also made the assumption that if you were spending $1k on a TV you must have some disposable income and thusly are in at least a bracket where you have to pay income tax. If someone who is spending $1k on a new TV does not fit into this category they shouldnt be purchasing the TV and I could care less that they are being screwed.
D. Say someone earned $85,000 and according to your numbers had to pay 10% in Federal Income tax. I dont know the numbers off hand but lets also go with 5% in state tax, assuming you live in a state where you have to pay it. (side note: another great reason to live in NV). So overall your paying 15%. If your current state sales tax is at 7% and you had $1k to spend you would be able to buy a $930 TV. If you didnt have to pay your 15% fed and state income taxes you would have $1150 to spend. That $1150 would get you the same $930 TV with a national 25% sales tax added on.

That is why your example of buying something is a bad example. Because proponents of a national sales tax argue that it would end up as the same current tax rate but only tax you when you spend the money, versus when you earn it.

doh.... :(

Taxes must be paid. If the tax was truely flat, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

However, I don't think we will see a tax without exemptions, subsidies, and writeoffs for those well-connected with Congress in their pockets.

To have a flat tax, you would have to get rid of the congressional lobbyers first.

More like a civil war.