Eh? No flaming I just didn't bother reading the post because the above alone shows you haven't a clue and obviously don't know what you're talking about. If the rest of the post has points so strange and wrong as these it's a total waster of several minutes of anyones life even trying to read it. The only bit with any truth is the TV part but then that's the price you pay for some commercial free TV and radio stations. I'd rather pay $150 a year and have that than be forced to watch commercials every 5 mins on every station.

The other points though are just plain odd and wrong.

Mika,
Where have you been reading that you read such a statement?

Liverpool

It is illegal for a woman to be topless in public except as a clerk in a tropical fish store.

ok....

hehe norway.. tomorrow at Bucharest we'll teach you soccer... I'll be there supporting our boys :thumbsup

a. Yep you may be right here - my point (a) wasn't so much thought out. I just find it strange that all the US wars and everything is always related to *freedom* for some reason ?!
In most European countries people wouldn't even understand if politicians tried to tell them that their freedom is threatened. Cultural independency? Yes. National identity? Yes. Financial interests? Yes. But freedom? How the fuck could someone take away my freedom in the current political world situation..

so I quickly draw the conclusion that because freedom seems to be so valued and so much talked about in America (compared to Europe), then maybe Americans think that their freedom is somehow extraordinary.

Chris, I guess that's an answer for you too.

b. yes that was my point. I agree with you. Freedom is used as an excuse or a word without true meaning. It's a shame why so many people fall on that. Wars are getting declared for the FREEDOM's sake. Jesus, like the superior military power that could probably alone beat the rest of the world (militarily speaking), could in anyway have the freedom of its citizens threatened by terrorists or Saddams or whatever.

probably the most important 6 words you have said - kinda sums it all up
:thumbsup

PleasurePays:

*probably the most important 6 words you have said - kinda sums it all up *

On that we agree!:Graucho

Teach soccer?

How long would soccer camp last exactly?

Day 1: Kicking ball
Day 2: Giving Blowjobs

There is no Day 3.

Yeah right. That's just the way how you should discuss with people who come up with reasonable argumentation instead of "Nuke em all"

And my point is still valid about many Americans falling on that *freedom* bullshit that the media, government and president are giving them. I guess too much CNN will destroy your brain eventually

nuke 'em all.

fuckwit

You are confusing the well scripted, well rehearsed speaches of one person with the feelings of 250,000,000.

its a huge problem in the world. one interesting thing about Europe and the US is that in Europe when there is a news story, they refer to the country - i.e. "Iraqis said XXX" or the "Americans said XXX". In the US, the media does not generally do that and they will refer more often to individuals. This is big reason why countries as whole are so biased against each other.

Europeans treat each other like sports teams - "the Italians did this" - "the French said that" and so on. Here, they would refer to the relevant person "Prime Minister Tony Blair said..."

this is the beginning of a lot of political confusion and tension. You are causing this as well by your ignorant debates about "americans" when even a cursory scan of the board, or watching, reading or listening to American media would show that most people are deeply divided on most issues.

show me all the posts and quotes of people debating any politics and standing behind the word "freedom". you brought it up. no one else did. Bush may use the word "freedom" "defending freedom" etc etc when it comes to whacking out Saddam Hussein - but you have not heard one person here say that.

I dont see any connection to fucking up saddam hussein and "freedom". I see a deep need to take him out based on the threat he represents to the world, his past track record, his illegal weapons programs, his defiance of the UN and UN Security Council. He is a physical threat to people in the world and particularly in the region. he is not a threat to "freedom"

you are the one taking the words of a few and extrapolating it to apply it to many.

you are wrong.

America is ignorant of Europe, its history and its cultures.
Europe is equally ignorant of Americans and American Culture.

you are showing your ignorance right now and trying to disguise it as a serious ideas about people you dont know and a place you know nothing about.

mika:

I hear wot your saying ... can understand some of it.. CNN is not "news"... tis just a very low grade "newstainment" service.. they got their problems as well tying to get a balance to keep the shrinking ratings up - any decent news editor there knows well he is just pandering to the masses (hopefully!). If you were a serious journalist ya'd be kinda wincing at having to give time to the "this weeks Hollywood box office takings", "this weeks computer games" and "Celebrity corner" shit - tis all bollocks. I am sure US folks interested in any sensible news look elsewhere..

I live where I can get a range of international TV channels.. fortunately. It got so bad last year, even US people here were asking the transmission folks to dump CNN.. they were sick of watching crap. In their wisdom they asked the BBC to start transmissions... and generally they seem pacified by this.

:glugglug

What makes you think many Americans buy into the propaganda semantics used by our Government? There, of course, are some Americans that do, but as a collective we are suspicious about virtually everything that our government does and as a collective we view our news media with a jaundiced eye. You, I think, pick up on the views of the few Americans that suit your prejudiced and/or misguided, misinformed, view of Americans and liberally apply it to the people of the collective America.

The simple fact that it is BEING USED. I don't think the people who make up this stuff in the goverment are so stupid that they didn't do their research and used something that wasn't proven to work

who says he "thinks"

he makes a lot of wrong assumptions based on things he does not understand and draws whatever conclusion will help him to sleep best at night.

that is not "thinking"

"thinking" would require objectivity vs attacking
"thinking" is about learning - not centering your thoughts around convincing yourself you are right.
"thinking" would require some degree of self questioning and self doubt
"thinking" would force a person to try to understand all sides of the issue

"thinking" is not about long, megalomaniacal rants and delusional ideas of how the world works and defying anyone to challenge it... so you he can go off on bizarre "conspiracy theory" tangents that are equally ignorant.

mika:

Yea.. the fact that it is being used is kinda naive and an insult to people's intelligence... but also think theking is right.. only assholes actually believe this stuff. I have met (and listened hard - ya learn a lot by "listening" *g*), many very bright US folks, and they ain't stupid - they don't trust what they hear as theking says.. All governments come out with some crap from time to time.. they are politicians, wot ya expect?! :Graucho

"propoganda" is any view or opinion expressed by a government that conflicts with your own ideas of "whats really happening"

There you go. Based upon that statement it is apparent that you do not understand our government or the phsycic of the American people. Checkmate, game over.

here you go. your personal rant targeted at me is what gives you a good night sleep? Jesus..

just shows how touchy YOU are about subject FREEDOM :1orglaugh

i am guessing that the next point will be that C-SPAN is a liberally biased propoganda machine that inserts subliminary messages into the televised coverage of House and Senate debates, votes and Congressional hearings on Capitol Hill, blinding people to what is "really being said"

the "rant" was about you and your ignorance which you wave higher and prouder than any American flag ever has been.

Do you have information that the rest of us aren't privy to? I believe when a madman amasses weapons of mass destruction and chemical weapons he is indeed a very real threat to the safety of the world. It seems that most other countries want to pussyfoot around and wait until he actually drops a nuke on someone before doing anything. George W. is just being proactive in wanting to take him out before anything terrible, like 9/11, happens. This country has problems, just like any other, but it's still a damn fine country to live in.

Point taken. Happens everywhere. The styles and the words etc only being different.

And of course the fact that an average American doesnt know shit about anything in the outside world compared to an average European :1orglaugh

you must do quite a bit of thinking while you are herding your reindeer.
:thumbsup

No you're a guy who only sees black and white. Black and white , right or wrong.

If you read the stuff more carefully you will notice that this is actually a discussion with many points and it'd be impossible to say what is right or wrong as fas ar some of the questions are concerned.

But you like to simplify, so get your good nite sleep and tell yourself I was "wrong" all the way

How did you deduce that Americans don't "know shit about anything in the outside world compared to an average European"? Could it be some more of your picking out the statements of a few Americans and applying your prejudice to the general American populace or is it just based upon your misinformed opinion?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mika


The simple fact that it is BEING USED. I don't think the people who make up this stuff in the goverment are so stupid that they didn't do their research and used something that wasn't proven to work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There you go. Based upon that statement it is apparent that you do not understand our government or the phsycic of the American people. Checkmate, game over.

I will repeat, checkmate, game over.

i dont need to feel like i am "right" to be able to sleep at night. thats the benifit of having a big cock and good looks.

The comment was based on my Finnish sense of humor

Well said man!!

Just kidding
:1orglaugh

I see, you have been jesting with us dumb backwoods Americans. Well, OK :1orglaugh

There was this story.. fortunately it was just that, a "story" about Saddam "cooking" babies in some incinerators during the Gulf War... this was spoken about by Bush senior in speeches blah. But in the end.. there was no story.. some PR agency was given 10 million plus dollars by the US govt to cook this shit up (plus a load of other "stories"), as propaganda for the war to enrage the masses. They later admitted it was not true - but kinda shows the level of naivity and the lengths they will go for support, - not a surprise that the UN is a little leery:Graucho

Yes... and the Japanese told their people that the US Marines would EAT their babies.

Btw... The UN is a joke!

*s* Nuthin like a good "baby" story to get folks going! :Graucho

http://nytimes.com/2002/10/11/opinion/11KRIS.html

http://nytimes.com/2002/10/11/opinion/11KRUG.html

For those of you who feel current US policy is not financially motivated. Here's another quote from a Times article on current US plans for Iraq:

"It would put an American officer in charge of Iraq for a year or more while the United States and its allies searched for weapons and maintained Iraq's oil fields. "

full article:

http://nytimes.com/2002/10/11/international/11PREX.html

The perceptions of those outside of the US that our country is driven purely by greed are, at the moment, pretty much correct. Our freedoms as businesspeople and citizens are dictated almost entirely by the wealthy and powerful. Currently we do enjoy a good amount of leeway, but how long will it last?

C.

anyone who believes that a country does not act out of self interest first is pretty naive

i notice there is not much talk about Russia, China and France and their financial motivations for being against a regime change. Iraq owes Russia something like 8 Billion dollars and are major trading partners, same with china and France. A regime change could mean losing all that money.

anyone who thinks America is the center of all evil and their own government is squeeky clean is a complete fucking idiot. EVERY COUNTRY HAS BLOODY HANDS - the ONLY arguement can be whose hands are more bloody, whose hands are least bloody, who helped who get blood on whose hands are pretty rediculous arguements. For every bad thing you can say about the US (with the exception of bombing Japan) can be said about almost any other country in contemporary history.

all of which are pretty redundant arguements. the obligation of every countries government is to protect the interest of itself first as well as the safety, security and prosperity of its people.

its fine to question Bushs motivations... US motivations etc... but it does not change the fact that arguements about motivations are irrelevant to the facts of how this situation came to be.

mika loves the cock.

Cal ... what makes you think that planning for after an occupation has to be sinister? I hope to fuck they have a plan ... and it would have to include running the oil fields. And who the fuck you think they are going to in charge of running the country - a real estate management company?

Some good points in that editorial, but not much in the way of facts. What's your point?